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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Pandorym
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    Skills Points at 1st Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier) x 4
    Skills Points at Each Level: (4+Intelligence Modifier)

    Pandoryrm’s class skills are Knowledge (Taken separately), Psicraft, Concentration, Intimidate, Listen, Spot, Hide, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Use Psionic Device, Autohypnosis, and Craft.

    Proficiencies: Pandorym has no proficiencies, being a big, floating chunk of animated Psicrystal, but can wear certain items as noted below.

    Crystalline Body: You lose all previous racial modifiers and gain the Outsider Type with the Psionic, and Evil subtypes. You become medium sized, gain a slam attack that deals [1d4+ INT mod] damage, and a flight speed of 30 ft (Good). You are able to extend two wispy arms from the face-shaped smog to manipulate objects, but you can only wear a limited amount of equipment.
    • One psicrown/helm
    • One amulet
    • 3 rings
    • Goggles/Mask/Similar thing.
    If you would acquire equipment that takes up the same slot, you can wear that equipment in the same slot with no problem. Also, any effect that would swap your mind into another body (True Mind Switch, etc) instantly fails, for the crystal that houses your mind is a prison. And lastly, if Pandoryrm would be subject to the effects of a Catapsi by failing it’s Will Save, it instantly becomes dazed for one round as it’s mind is distorted by the nullification effects.

    Warp Jump: By paying 1 power point, you may increase your flight speed by 10ft for one round. You may expend extra pp to increase your flight speed by 10ft for every 1pp expended, but you may only expend a maximum amount of points equal to your HD at a time.

    Crystalline Spray: You may pay 2 power points to make a ranged ray attack dealing 2d4 damage with a range of 30ft. You may treat this damage at slashing/piercing damage at your discretion.

    Ego Whiplash: You gain Ego Whip as a PLA useable HD/3 times per day.

    Manifestation of Will: You manifest powers as a Psion Telepath, of your Pandorym levels minus 3. However, because you are a weapon of horror and creation does not agree with you very much, you manifest Metacreativity powers with a ML-1.

    Faint Sign of Binding: Your existence damages the very links in the universe, making teleportation……hard. Anyone casting a Conjuration spell within 30ft of you must make a Spellcraft check (DC 10 + INT Mod + Spell’s Level) or lose the spell/spell slot with no effect. Also spells that force outsiders to their home plane (Such as Banishment) have their save DC’s decreased by your INT mod. You may supress this as a Free Action, but you must keep putting in a concious effort of supress it every round or it reactivates. This applies for the stronger Signs of Binding below.

    Bonus Psionic Feats: You gain a bonus feat with the [Psionic] descriptor at levels 6, 9, 11 and 17.

    Psionic Buffer: As a being of the mind exclusively, you learn to feed off the minds of other manifesters. Whenever someone would manifest a Psionic Power within 40ft of you, you gain pp equal to ¼ of the pp used to manifest the power.

    1st Color of the Mind – Red Rage: You are a single minded creature, to be honest. Not stupid, but very stubborn. In fact, your mind can be described as 7 shades that glow within your crystalline prison. Your mind takes one shade at first – Red for rage. You may pay 7 pp to affect any person within 15ft with your maddening thoughts, as per the Confusion spell. DC equal to [10 + HD/2 + INT Mod].

    2nd Color of the Mind – Orange Acid Mind: Your mind takes a second shade of color to symbolize your tainted warped mind. Anyone who uses mind-affecting effects on you must make a Will Save (DC same as Red Rage) or the effect fails and they take one point of WIS Drain.

    Moderate Sign of Binding: Your effects on this world become stronger and more pronounced. When a summoning spell’s duration expires and the creature that was summoned is within 60ft of you, the summoned monster does not return home, and is no longer under the caster’s control. The monster will almost certainly be Hostile towards the spell caster for forcing it into service. Also, your hate of the Divine becomes apparent now. All Divine spell casters 60ft of you take a -2 penalty to their effective CL while in range.

    3rd Color of the Mind – Lightning Speed: You’re a fast thinker, and it’s reflected in your Psionic warfare. You only need to use a Standard Action to gain Psionic Focus. At 17HD, you only need a Swift Action.

    Psionic Leech: Your Psionic Buffer effect now gives you ½ the pp used to manifest the power. Also, the manifester must make a Concentration check [DC = 10 + HD/2 + INT Mod, as usual] or use up twice as many pp as they normally would (this factors in extra pp spent to improve the manifested power).

    4th Color of the Mind – Green Glow: Your mind takes another shade; the shade of envy and greed. You gain Identify as an at will SLA, so no-one can hide their goods from you, and you gain a continual Intellect Fortress effect, only it affects Divine effects instead of Psionic Effects.

    Strong Sign of Binding: Your effects on this world are peaking and you are coming close to your pinnacle. Divine casters now take -4 to their CL while near you, and once per day per 5HD, you may put a Binding Hex on an opponent within 30ft of yourself. While your opponent is hexed, all Conjuration spells they cast fail instantly.

    5th Color of the Mind – Turquoise Tyrant: Your mind shows a 6th shade – tyranny. You gain Psionic Dominate as a PLA useable once per day per 9HD (Will DC equal to Red Rage’s DC), and it is treated as it has already been augmented to last for one day per level.

    6th Color of the Mind – Indigo Insanity: The 6th shade of your mind manifests in a tangible form, i.e. your utter insanity. Anyone within 50ft of you must make a Will Save (DC equal to Red Rage’s DC) or be driven permanently insane, as per the Insanity spell. You may (begrudgingly) exclude your allies from your insanity inducing effect.
    Psionic Black Hole: You are a mine made solid. You are THE mind made solid, and you’re hungry! Anytime you use a Psionic power, it costs you 2pp less as you simply drain back wasted energy. Also, any manifester must make a concentration check (Same DC as Psionic Buffer) or lose the Power’s effect, and the pp used.

    7th Color of the Mind – Purple Punishment: You finally show the last shade of your mind – the violet, raw power of your mind. And your mind is a violent mind indeed. As a standard action, you may pay 17pp to violently shunt one person within 50ft to the nightmarish place you call “home”. The target must make a Will Save (DC = 10+Int Mod+1/2HD) or be instantly shunted to a universe beyond even an Overdeity’s reach, perpendicular to the main Material Realm. On a successful save, the target takes 7d7 Force Damage from the sheer power that is your mind. Anyone shunted to your homerealm cannot be Raised or Ressurected, for they are not dead, but alive in your world. Not that this is a good thing.

    Overwhelming Sign of Binding: Your effects on the realm you are in are horrible, and you practically cordon off realms when you exist in them. While you are in a Plane of Existence (Hades, the Abyss, The Elemental Plane of Water etc.) no Conjuration spells work whatsoever, and any spells that contact extra-planar entities (Commune, Contact other Plane etc.) fail also. Divine spells cast in the realm you are in are cast with a -5 to their effective Cl.

    Comments/Changelog:
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    Wow. That hurt my head something fierce. Well, here is the Elder Evil Pandorym, a creature of the mind most exclusivley. It has delayed psionics of a Telepath, and in return for breaking one of the main commandments of optimization (THOU SHALT NOT LOSE ML's) has a few cool effects, like gimping Summoners/Teleporter and Clerics/Druids, being a Psionic Sink Hole, and 7 cool effects that turn it into a Lovecraftian Mood Lamp. Psychedelic man I request you give ideas on how to fill the "Here you go, a bonus feat" levels, because I HATE doing that. Also, 5 epic levels. Ideas. Make them happen.

    Changelog

    None as yet.
    Ok, critique:
    • First off, before I even hit the spoiler button to look at the monster, the formatting of the post bugs me. Text at the beginning unrelated to the monster entry (where any player using the creature would have to look at/past it every time they visited), the centered & colored monster name where we don't tend to do that, the lack of an image to make the creature stand out on the page, it just doesn't work in your favor. Stick to general formatting conventions, pretty please.
    • If you're using outsider type, you should state the native plane.
    • "If you would acquire equipment that takes up the same slot, you can wear that equipment in the same slot with no problem." - This is confusingly worded. I initially read it as "You can wear 3 helmets in the head slot".
    • You refer to a Catapsi, but I have no clue what this is. You need to be clearer on this point, and/or less specific to encompass a broader array of situations.
    • Fly speed at 1st level is insanely broken. This runs against standards set out in this thread (wherein flight comes at 4th level at the earliest, and only in extreme cases. 5th level is typical.
    • Ego whip is potentially gamebreaking, as many monsters have very low charisma. Other monsters have dealt with the issue of int damage being very powerful at low levels, as well, so compare to those. Stygian dragon comes to mind, but not sure if it was properly fixed. I typically wash my hands of all things dragon.
    • Faint sign of binding - you spelled conscious wrong. The note of having to put in constant effort is weird - either state how this works mechanically (concentration check?) or scrap the fluff. As is, it's an annoying restriction on the player where the player has to stress to his DM every round that he's putting in the effort, or screw over his group.
    • Psionic Buffer is flat out broken. Consider the effect with a PC group of 4 Pandorym, or a PC group of 3 psionic characters and a Pandorym. Buffer is the wrong word for this kind of effect, as well (buffer means to ward against, to prevent, to block or absorb. You want something more like leech).
    • "You are a single minded creature, to be honest. Not stupid, but very stubborn. In fact, your mind can be described as 7 shades that glow within your crystalline prison." - This is... abstract. Not a fan of this flavor text.
    • Please, please, please state the level an ability is gained, in the ability description. It's a pain to skim through Red color of the mind, acid orange mind, moderate psionic binding, 3rd color of the mind and to have to constantly scroll back up to check when the ability is gained, to gauge appropriate balance.
    • Psionic Leech (ah, you did use that term, buffer is still wrong though) is going to screw over other psionic party members.
    • Come to think of it, you're benefiting (PPwise) and/or screwing over yourself (making manifesting more expensive), since there's nothing about being able to turn it off, and it doesn't specify that the ability doesn't affect you.
    • No save 'can't use conjuration' in Strong Sign of Binding is too powerful. Fix.
    • As I read through the 6th and 7th colors of the mind, it strikes me you've made a psion that's potentially more powerful than a psion, even with the -3 manifester level. Lots of SLAs, general passives and a flood of PP through buffer/leech on top of manifesting as a psion.
    • 6th color of the mind needs a 'save once to be immune' ruling, or you've got opponents saving 50 times in a single combat, until they inevitably fail.
    • 7th color of the mind is too powerful, given how high the save is liable to be (see below) and the effect.
    • As I read it, the Pandorym has no reason to stack much beyond Int - maybe some dex/con/wis for saves/ac, but even so. Everything works off int (manifesting, all saves, damage, etc). This creature becomes an absolute monster with stacked Int (tomes, headband, ioun stone, fox's cunning, etc). It's an SAD class, and that needs to change.
    • Overwhelming sign of binding is a little much, even for a 20th level capstone. Again, screws over your allies.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-12-11 at 04:12 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Ah, so it was Pandorym that was broken, not Swarmshifter. Right, mega edit, here we come. And I thought the pic was stretching the page. No, it's just my laptop is wacked. Delightful.

    Also, what shall I base the saves off? There's not much else to Pandorym except him massive mind. WIS? CHA?
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2010-12-11 at 04:31 PM.

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    Could be swarmshifter is Überbroken too. I just haven't looked at it.

  4. - Top - End - #304
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    ............Your scaring me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Neither is an elemental.


    And all elementals have intelligence 3+.

    If you can make a were-elemental, he can make a werewight.
    Honestly, I don't think either of them should be done at all, though. Again, I'm not telling you to shut down what you've already done, but really, it's just silly.
    I actually thought of that... I was considering taking it down...

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    Right, Pandorym has been toned down and sorted out. Must remember to change things when copypasta-ing from Word. Also, don't bother taking down the WereElemental, because what's done is done, and there's no point wasting your time. Just try to be a bit more logical with what Were____ you pick next time

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Right, Pandorym has been toned down and sorted out. Must remember to change things when copypasta-ing from Word. Also, don't bother taking down the WereElemental, because what's done is done, and there's no point wasting your time. Just try to be a bit more logical with what Were____ you pick next time
    I just want some ideas for my WereScorpion... Then I'll make... Umm... I don't know what I'll make yet, but it'll be great!

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    Where's the changelog for Pandorym fixes/nerfs/buffs? Can't tell what you've altered, Geck.

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    @Rumel
    Ideas? Sure. Just don't expect them to be any good

    1st, the Ability should say WereScorpion Level +.......blah blah..
    It's got Entomanothrope in green, so that needs to change.
    2nd, it says it gains a poison dealing.....blah blah blah....
    I'm not sure what it should be though. Poison attack? An attack that poisons the target dealing ___ damage......blah blah blah......
    3rd, that 1st level looks awfully top heavy........
    EDIT: Changelog on Pandorym has been fixed. My Laptop is slow today, so it's eating my posts all the geckoing time.
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2010-12-11 at 05:16 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Pandorym
    • Post format still bugs me. Creature name & image are centered, which goes against convention & looks ugly on high resolution viewing.
    • You've still got flight speed at 1st level, which still breaks the game. Lack of fine manipulation helps balance this out, but as a 'caster', you're still capable of flying above the battlefield & doing your thing while remaining largely untouchable.
    • "If you would acquire equipment that takes up a similar slot as something you can wear, you can wear that equipment in the appropriate slot with no problem." - reads awkwardly. Needs polish.
    • "And lastly, if Pandoryrm would be subject to the effects of a Catapsi by failing it’s Will Save, it instantly becomes dazed for one round as it’s mind is distorted by the nullification effects." - I still have no idea what this means. Clarify?
    • Warp Jump - reading this, I don't like how it enhances your mobility. You're capable of boosting your mobility to ridiculous extremes (Giving yourself potentially 230' movement at level 20, effectively taking you out of the battlefield in a bad spot).
    • Ego Whiplash remains a fairly powerful, spammable option. Figure at level 5 you've got 15 whiplashes, or 3-4 per encounter. It lets you attack Cha against any opponent who is too tough to take down with hp damage, and take down many high CR foes with 1-2 casts, no sweat (say, a CR12 elder black pudding).
    • The added -1 to manifest metacreativity isn't that big a drawback, as I understand it, since you still cast perfectly well outside that discipline. Correct me if I'm wrong (psionics is not my strong suit), but you can just pick powers outside of metacreativity, so you're only really suffering a drawback in selection, (still).
    • The various signs of binding really need to be condensed & made more intuitive. As is, each entry for the ability is really dense & complicated. Each added level should be one or two sentences long, as far as expanding on it, not 6+ lines.
    • Acid Orange Mind is kinda weird in how it works, since not everyone who uses a mind affecting power on you is necessarily linking their mind to you. A rogue uses a wand of confusion... they take wis damage? It doesn't make sense.
    • Not terribly familiar with psionic focus and the ins and outs (don't like psions, personally, and don't tend to have many in my games), but I should caution you that 3rd color of the mind, by making something (versatile, as it links to many feats) require less of an investment in the overall action economy... well, it's dangerous. Think it through very, very carefully.
    • Intellect fortress vs. divine spells is kinda useless, since divine magic is pretty notorious for having little in the way of damage dealing.
    • The global no-save lowering of caster level for divine casters is a bit much. Consider that you're pretty much pitting yourself, a caster type, against effectively gimped divine casters. Sure, many of their buffs are pre-combat, but even so, you're a psion-3 that (starting at 15th level) is turning all divine casters into caster-4.
    • You may mean one day per HD, under Turquoise Tyrant.
    • Indigo insanity pretty much screws over any recurring villains your DM throws at you, since they're effectively ruined if they lose one save. Almost more so than death.
    • "At 19th level, you become a mine made solid. You become THE mind made solid, and you’re hungry!" - non sequitor, you use 'mine' instead of 'mind', flavor text is iffy.
    • I don't like the -2 cost in pp. It's, RAW, potentially abusable (free low cost powers? Potentially spammable?)
    • The "Any manifester" thing in Psionic Black Hole (Perhaps rename to Psionic Vacuum?) could screw over you or your group.
    • What's up with the d7 in Purple Punishment? Do they even make those?
    • The Overwhelming sign of binding is still totally over the top in terms of what it does. How would you react, as a 20th level PC in a typical group, if I just plopped one down in the campaign world somewhere, as an encounter I planned to use against you in 5-10 sessions?

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    Right, before I start, it's not very easy to balance this monster, because trust me, this is a MAJOR downgrade from the normal Pandorym Aspect that's in Elder Evils (Full Psion Casting! Full Divine Shutdown!) Not much of an excuse, but still.

    The flight speed is because I can't imagine a walking chunk of crystal. I'll try hovering.
    I'll try to reword that item bit. Wording stuff isn't my forte.
    Catapsi is a Psion Power that basically creates Psionic White Noise, messing with your manifesting. To something as mind based as Pandorym, it would be quite painful I would expect.
    Warp Jump - I shall try something better.
    Ego Whiplash - Seeing as it is a bit spammable, i'll make it pay PP for it.
    I'm sticking with the penalty to Metacreativity, because like you said, it limits Pandoryrm's manifesting a bit.
    Orange Mind - That can be solved by fluff.
    Psionic Focus - You can get it as a move action about level 5-6ish. I don't see the problem.
    The rest, i'll get to. Just let me shove some tissues up my nose to stop the nosebleeds I keep getting

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Right, before I start, it's not very easy to balance this monster, because trust me, this is a MAJOR downgrade from the normal Pandorym Aspect that's in Elder Evils (Full Psion Casting! Full Divine Shutdown!) Not much of an excuse, but still.
    Right, but to be fair, you were asking for a pretty extensive design process when you decided to tackle an epic creature.

    The flight speed is because I can't imagine a walking chunk of crystal. I'll try hovering.
    Right. If I'm remembering right, brain in a jar and beholder involved stabs at that.

    Catapsi is a Psion Power that basically creates Psionic White Noise, messing with your manifesting. To something as mind based as Pandorym, it would be quite painful I would expect.
    Seems arbitrary, as there's probably dozens of powers and items out there that interfere with psionics or one's focus.

    Psionic Focus - You can get it as a move action about level 5-6ish. I don't see the problem.
    Move action is a fairly long ways from a swift action. I'll leave this to your discretion, but as far as I'm concerned, tampering with the action economy leads to disaster.

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    I set up a Thread for the WereWight Here:
    call me Dragon

    I have left this site for a while. I probablt wont be coming back.

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    @Hyudra
    Psions utterly hurt the action economy if given half a chance anyway, but you have a point. And the Overwhelming Sign arrvives about the same time when it appears in an Elder Evil campaign when your fighting Pandorym. But i'll nerf it, methinks.
    And what's wrong with Indigo Insanity? By the time Pandorym gets it, the BBEG could of been sent insane/disintergrated/scrambled/Baleful Polymorphed loads of times. It's not beyond the DM to fudge the roll if he wants to, or better yet, adapt;
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    "Ahahahaha! My Indigo Insanity has driven the High Priest MAAAAAAD!"
    DM: The Cleric twitches and writhes and hits a demonic lamp. Now, you have a Hellfire flaming Cleric of Nerull approaching. Good luck.
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2010-12-11 at 07:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon O Fundeath
    I set up a Thread for the WereWight Here:
    I'm seeing a lot of those threads crop up. Might I suggest a dedicated thread for the weres, to avoid spamming the forum with something that has a fairly niche interest?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing
    Psions utterly hurt the action economy if given half a chance anyway, but you have a point. And the Overwhelming Sign arrvives about the same time when it appears in an Elder Evil campaign when your fighting Pandorym. But i'll nerf it, methinks.
    Elder evils shouldn't be a comparable balancing point, anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing
    And what's wrong with Indigo Insanity? By the time Pandorym gets it, the BBEG could of been sent insane/disintergrated/scrambled/Baleful Polymorphed loads of times. It's not beyond the DM to fudge the roll if he wants to, or better yet, adapt;
    What's wrong with it? It's a free save or lose effect that's going to come up in pretty much every encounter with every foe the PCs come across, barring those immune to mind affecting stuff, from 18th level onward. The problem lies with the action economy, the permanence of the effect (does it persist for someone who is killed and reraised? Can it be cured, and if so, by what?), the ambiguity of it (both the permanence and what the insanity entails) and the flat out brokenness of a free, no-cost, no-action save or lose effect for anyone that approaches you.

    That's the mechanical issue. In terms of the health of the game, it will derail any plans your DM has of having any recurring villains. That's just a pain.

    And your 'adaptation' you list isn't very effective. A foe who loses over half his actions and can't effectively implement strategy is pretty much a defeated foe. Your flaming cleric of Nerull isn't any more threatening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Elder evils shouldn't be a comparable balancing point, anyways.
    Can I sig that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Can I sig that?
    Go for it.

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    Fine. They only go mad for 5 rounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Fine. They only go mad for 5 rounds.
    Ok, so now it's a free save or lose effect that's going to come up in pretty much every encounter with every foe the PCs come across, barring those immune to mind affecting stuff, from 18th level onward. The problems lie with the action economy, the ambiguity of it (what the insanity entails) and the flat out brokenness of a free, no-cost, no-action save or lose effect for anyone that approaches you.

    A step forward.

    Others are welcome to chime in, by the way. High/epic levels aren't my forte, nor are psions, so I freely admit I'm not the best person to review this thing.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-12-11 at 08:27 PM.

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    Well, i've got one other option, but it's wierd. I shall see what I can do.
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2010-12-11 at 08:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyudra View Post
    Ok, so now it's a free save or lose effect that's going to come up in pretty much every encounter with every foe the PCs come across, barring those immune to mind affecting stuff, from 18th level onward. The problems lie with the action economy, the ambiguity of it (what the insanity entails) and the flat out brokenness of a free, no-cost, no-action save or lose effect for anyone that approaches you.

    A step forward.

    Others are welcome to chime in, by the way. High/epic levels aren't my forte, nor are psions, so I freely admit I'm not the best person to review this thing.
    So long as it's pretty much your only schtick, that kind of thing is okay- it's just a gaze attack, that's it. A good balancing point is the marraenoloth- that's the quickest anything should get no-action save-or-loses, because really, that's pretty much just what the marraenoloth does.
    Now, for indigo insanity, I'm going to disagree with Hyudra and say it's not a problem. A wizard can do that with a quickened confusion at level 15, and that's a mediocre choice. As is, it's actually a little underwhelming for an 18th level ability.
    I'd do something interesting with it like increase it to a standard action and either let it affect creatures immune to mind-affecting or remove the save. This is level 18 we're talking about, after all, where even tier 2's are breaking reality over their legs. 'Course, if you're going to do what I suggested, might be best to switch it with the capstone- that's an army annihilating ability right there.
    If anyone thinks that's iffy, I'll point you to the fact that even a core bard- a high tier 4- can do that before 18th level. Irresistible dance.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-12-12 at 12:49 AM.
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

    I've thought about it, and I think I know what to do. Anyway, could you lot have a look at the Umber Hulk and see if it's OK? It seems to have gotten lost in all of this, and that was a cool class to make.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    I've thought about it, and I think I know what to do. Anyway, could you lot have a look at the Umber Hulk and see if it's OK? It seems to have gotten lost in all of this, and that was a cool class to make.
    Ehh, we're kind of backed up with unfinished classes at the moment. There are tons. Personally, I know I'm getting close to it as I'm working my way down the list. We should be critiquing quicker/more often, to be honest. That's not to say less detailed critiques, but let's try to take a look, right?

    Another thing is it seems that a lot of critiquers suffer from one-look syndrome. You give the class one critique, and then after the homebrewer makes changes according to the critique, you never look it over again, you never give it your nomination. Do so!

    Anyway, here's a critique of the Grell.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kajhera View Post
    Grell



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    Grell: A base character class.

    Hit Dice: d8

    {table] Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Feature
    1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Aberrant Body, Electric Nature, Blindsight, Paralyzing Tentacles
    2 | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Improved Grab, Powerful Tentacles, Buoyant, +1 Dex
    3 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +3 | Expert Grappler, Growth, Reach, +1 Con
    [/table] Be aware that using spaces doesn't work-- you should actually be centering the text. Plus, grammatically, you shouldn't put a space at the beginning of the class features.

    Skill Points: 2+int (x4 at level 1)
    Skills: Craft, Hide, Move Silently, Listen, Profession, Spot
    Proficiencies: Grell are proficient with their natural attacks and grellcraft weapons.

    Features:
    Aberrant Body: The grell loses all racial bonuses and gains aberration traits. A grell is a small aberration with speed 20', +5' each level after first.
    Speed ought to scale with HD, not level, really. If it's going to scale at all, this is the type of thing that ought to keep scaling as you grow.

    It hovers above the ground, but it must remain within 1' above a solid or liquid surface.
    You should note that this allows them to ignore difficult terrain and grants them essentially a permanent Water Walk spell.

    A grell is blind (though it can still detect enemies with its blindsight ability). Don't forget to note that this gives them benefits, like immunity to gaze attacks. A grell gains natural armor equal to its Con bonus. A grell has 2 tentacles as primary natural weapons (1d3+str) and a bite as a secondary natural weapon with 0' reach (1d4+1/2str). A grell gains 1 tentacle attack each level after first, until it has 10 tentacle attacks. 2 + 3 equals 5, not 10. Further, again, this should scale by HD, not by level, and should not have a cap on it. Maybe make it one tentacle attack per 2 HD? Its tentacles are capable of fine manipulation, but can only wield grellcraft weapons. Can it speak?

    Electric Nature (Ex): A grell gains a bonus on saves against paralysis equal to its HD. It also gains electricity resistance equal to its HD. Looks fine to me.

    Blindsight (Ex): 40', +5' for each subsequent hit die. Don't use the word subsequent. That makes it seem like you gain more benefit if you take the level early on.

    Paralyzing Tentacles (Ex): 2xHDxCon modifier times per day, a grell may paralyze with one or more of its tentacle attacks for a round. Any creature hit by a grell's tentacle must make a Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4 rounds (DC 10 + 1/2HD + Con modifier). Creatures struck by multiple tentacle attacks in the same round do not make multiple saving throws, nor does this take any additional uses; instead, the DC of the save increases by 1 for each additional tentacle that hit in the same round. At 2nd level, when a creature fails his saving throw, he is paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds; and at 3rd level, a creature that fails his saving throw is paralyzed for 2d4 rounds. A little on the powerful side, but I think it will work. You might want to make it less times a day... 2xHDxCon Modifier is a lot.

    Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a grell must hit an opponent of its size or smaller with a tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict. Looks good to me.

    Powerful Tentacles (Ex): A 2nd-level grell is treated as medium-sized for the purpose of grapple checks. On a successful grapple, a grell deals 1d4+str points of damage. This damage increases by a step when the grell gains a size category. Is this a constriction attack?

    Buoyant: A 2nd-level grell is under the effect of a constant feather fall, may levitate itself as the spell to a height of 5'/HD off the ground. At 4HD, it gains a fly speed equal to its base land speed with perfect maneuverability. Looks good to me.

    Expert Grappler (Ex): Grell gain a +1/HD racial bonus on all grapples. It'll be very good at grapples. I suggest +1/ 2 HD

    A grell that chooses to grapple with one tentacle and remain ungrappled itself reduces the penalty for such a hold by 1/HD, from the normal -20 penalty. So, for example, a 10th-level grell takes only a -10 penalty on holds using a single tentacle. Good ability!

    A grell may use multiple tentacles in a hold so that the penalty is reduced by another point for each tentacle employed. A 10th-level grell could use 3 tentacles to grapple a single creature at a -7 penalty, and 7 tentacles to grapple another creature at a -3 penalty.

    Growth: A 3rd-level grell grows from small to medium, along with the normal non-ability changes associated with such.

    Reach: A 3rd-level grell has 10' reach with its tentacle attacks.


    Grellcraft Weaponry
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    Grellcraft: The grellcraft special quality may be added to any one-handed or light melee weapon. It loses its range increment, if any. Grellcraft weapons cost twice as much to make as their normal counterparts (this includes only the base weapon price, not magic, masterwork, or material costs).

    A grellcraft weapon alters one tentacle attack to which it is attached, rather than acting as a wielded weapon. The tentacle's type of damage, damage die, critical threat range, and critical threat multiplier change to match the weapon. It continues to be able to deliver paralysis attempts. A grell wielding a one-handed grellcraft weapon gains an additional 5' of reach with its tentacle attack.
    What about grellcraft reach weapons?



    Changelog:
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    *Clarified some things.
    *Changed Electricity Immunity to Electricity Resistance.
    *Ctrl-X'ed paralysis immunity.
    *Reduced tentacle progression so you are level 9 by the time you get all 10 tentacles.
    *Removed simple weapon proficiencies. Feral grell do not use weapons. Subject to change.
    --
    *Elaborated on grellcraft weaponry.
    --
    *Recombined Expert Grappler and Skillful Grappler into 3rd-level Expert Grappler.
    *Put paralysis immunity back under aberrant body because I'm not sure where else it elegantly fits.
    --
    *Switched paralysis and electricity resistance into Electric Nature.
    *Reinstituted weapon proficiencies.
    *Changed Flight.
    *Maybe did something else.
    --
    *Changed Flight, renamed Buoyancy.
    *Changed proficiencies.
    *Changed grappling bonuses to be based more on HD; tying them to tentacles led to some misconceptions of my intent.
    *Gave just a touch more grappling power to the grell when it starts being able to use grappling abilities.
    Overall looks good! I have one more idea, but I have to get going, so I'll mention it later.
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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

    ... Editing most of those, but I went to look up whether grell can speak - they can be wizards, so it seems like they should be able to - it turns out their speech is really complicated. Like being able to talk to each other within 60' with electrical-only speech, imperceptible to most things.

    They can speak, though. Just their native tongue that's complicated.

    Erm, as far as grellcraft reach weapons, the only one-handed weapon I'm aware of with reach is the whip. Which is unusual in other ways, too...

    Also, I'm going to nominate the Thorn.
    Last edited by Kajhera; 2010-12-12 at 09:50 AM.

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    Since my wereremorhaz isn't going to be critiqued, could someone look over my Gibbering Mouther?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betropper View Post
    Since my wereremorhaz isn't going to be critiqued, could someone look over my Gibbering Mouther?
    At a glance you have a [/b] tag at the end of one of your first text things. Sorry, got distracted after that. Good, you fixed the DCs.

    Can the creature choose between a Reflex save and Strength check to escape from Engulf?

    Any particular reason you gain DR/- for having a creature engulfed rather than a straight DR/bludgeoning?
    Last edited by Kajhera; 2010-12-12 at 11:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicyop View Post
    Ehh, we're kind of backed up with unfinished classes at the moment. There are tons. Personally, I know I'm getting close to it as I'm working my way down the list. We should be critiquing quicker/more often, to be honest. That's not to say less detailed critiques, but let's try to take a look, right?

    Another thing is it seems that a lot of critiquers suffer from one-look syndrome. You give the class one critique, and then after the homebrewer makes changes according to the critique, you never look it over again, you never give it your nomination. Do so!

    Anyway, here's a critique of the Grell.

    Overall looks good! I have one more idea, but I have to get going, so I'll mention it later.
    Commenting on your critique & the Grell itself:
    • Speed scaling with level is probably fine if you want to keep things more or less sane. A Grell that takes all levels in the class will have 30' speed. That makes more sense than a Grell20 with 115' movement or whatever.
    • It's a good policy to outline starting language, especially in the case of creatures where it's ambiguous whether they'd be able to speak or not. Stating it in the '[Monster] Body' entry would save players from having to check the monster manual (or making incorrect assumptions).
    • As far as the progression of tentacles goes, I would agree with tying it to HD. 1 tentacle per 2HD (minimum 2) would probably be fine, and would keep things relatively sane in relation to general level progression.
    • The high number of natural attacks kind of bugs me, though. A grell full attack, as written, stands to be pretty damn devastating. Consider the effect of a Grell Warblade or Duskblade that gets +2d6 elemental damage on each attack. Remember, monsters can take class levels.
    • Agree with toning down paralyzing tentacles in number of uses. 2xHD, 2xCon or HDxCon is likely sufficient, depending on what you're aiming for (2x Con would be potentially more earlier, but slower progression, while 2xHD would be steadier, and HDxCon would be much more unpredictable growth).
    • The flight aspect in Buoyant could be bumped up to 5HD for the sake of sanity. Robust flight at 4th is okay for creatures that don't have a lot else going for them, but as is, a player taking 3 levels in Grell is getting a very dense progression at early levels, then very little thereafter.
    • The -20 penalty that Expert Grappler refers to could be better stated. I just read through the grappling rules 3 times and I'm still not 100% sure what the creature author was referring to.
    • Overall, I think it more or less works. The main points to address are the progression of tentacles and toning down the sheer quantity of paralysis attacks (as is, you probably wouldn't ever run out after 1st level, eliminating the need for a limit in the first place).
    • Issues? I see potential weakness at 1st level as an issue, since you're slow, unskilled, armor is hard to come by, you don't have an excess of paralysis attacks (Possibly 4-6 at 1st level, with your current value, maybe 8, for 1-2 per daily encounter) and your base stats/skills kinda suck at that point. More of an issue, I stress, than being 1st level is for most. It's also a one trick pony that is kind of gimped at later levels by any elf (or other paralysis immune creature) with a freedom of movement effect.


    Note
    • Purple worm is up for review. I need a final critique to check for any omissions, oversights and errors, and then it's one thing we can probably strike from the unfinished list.
    • I really think the growing 'unfinished' list is due to a stagnant review process. Things need to be streamlined, and I suspect the current methodology needs to be altered. As far as I can tell, there's not many/any creatures that've been fully critiqued and endorsed in 10 pages of this thread, and that points to things needing to change before this project slows to a complete halt. The recent schism apparently didn't help, and I think some might've just abandoned the project rather than go searching for the right thread to post in. We need to get things rolling again.
    Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-12-12 at 11:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

    Most things changed for both critiques, though I am a bit wary of what its starting languages actually *are*.

    Admittedly, I didn't change anything at 1st level, but I'm open to ideas.

    The grappling rules for grappling with one of your natural weapons are ... somewhere other than the normal grappling rules. Monster manual? I suppose I should restate them in a part?

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    Hey, I'd like to work on this project. The last time I promised that whenever I promise that I never showed up again, however, so please PM me if I'm not back in two weeks. I might be able to work on something this week, as long as its only maybe ten levels long. *Goes to look over the requested monsters*
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScionoftheVoid View Post
    Hey, I'd like to work on this project. The last time I promised that whenever I promise that I never showed up again, however, so please PM me if I'm not back in two weeks. I might be able to work on something this week, as long as its only maybe ten levels long. *Goes to look over the requested monsters*
    Hey, welcome. Maybe a Remorhaz? It's seven levels! Okay, I'm sure there are other interesting requested classes too. What we really need right now are reviews, of course.

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