Community Based Monster Classes: Come in and help out!

[Zeofar]

I've made a post relevant to the split of the monster class thread. Ignore it wholly or in part if you please, but I think rejoining the threads will ultimately be better for the community. I know that those who have decided to split aren't keen on ever returning, but I think that it would be the most wise course of action.

[The Antigamer]

I've made a post relevant to the split of the monster class thread. Ignore it wholly or in part if you please, but I think rejoining the threads will ultimately be better for the community. I know that those who have decided to split aren't keen on ever returning, but I think that it would be the most wise course of action.

I wholeheartedly agree that a single thread would be better for the community. I'm not 100% on your proposed rule changes, but that's the point of discussion to reach a decision that's best for everyone.

[Kajhera]

This whole thread split thing *is* making my pipe dream of consolidating these into a Homebrew Monster Class Monster Manual a bit trickier to figure out.

On the bright side, I'm probably too lazy to do that anyway.

[Tacitus]

If anything, the leadership of the thread should be done with a joint Improved Monster Class Mule Account (if threadmules are allowed?) with several people having private access to it, each of whom are more or less elected to the position of a council of editors and managers so that we've got several people with editing rights to the whole shebang. (Or hell, make it a public threadmule if you think giving out the pass publicly is acceptable)

A lot of the older stuff should also probably be reposted so it is able to be edited, especially for some of O's grammar malfunctions. >.>

[Betropper]

Basicly I just want to say this about the split, my words in the other thread:

Conter-productive? Don't think so. Right now 2 classes are being graded, one is almost done. What I think should happen is this:

Keep the two groups seperate, but have one database. If one group wants to work their way, fine, as long as the actual classes are made. You make classes in both threads and you work faster than normal due to two methods of grading. I personally see this more as a blessing than a curse.

That is all.

[TheGeckoKing]

I'm on the fence - My heart is saying get back into one group, but my head is saying don't bother. And my head has proof. We've gotten good classes like the Phrenic and Wendigo templates, and people arn't annoyed/are having a good time.

Or, to summarize, as long as it's done to a good quality and fairly.....

Who cares? Really?

But alas, I must sleep now, so I shall see what comes out of this discussion at a later time. Goodnight.

[The Antigamer]

Basicly I just want to say this about the split, my words in the other thread:



That is all.

As I said in that thread two groups with one database is a logistical nightmare. Splitting threads means both threads lose the good suggestions of at least a few people. Why not just have one thread, one database, and use a new form of judging monster fitness? I fail to see why a joint resolution cannot be reached.

[DarkEnar]

That's the point, is that it gets the ability to use its morphing ability essentially as an immediate-free action, and allows it to change at any time it likes. Normally, you work out damage and DR at the same time, yes, but the idea is that whatever order you do things in in real time, you can interrupt that at any time to morph. So if the combat list goes:

1) Does the creature have DR?
MORPH!
2) Does the attack overcome the DR?
MORPH!
3) How much damage does the attack deal?

Hmm, but wouldn't that be kinda of a rules nightmare and bog down the game as your character is reacthing to everything? Well ok trying to play at level 29 would be pretty rule-heavy already, but still, I think it shouldn't be able to transform more than once per round for simplicity's sake. Maybe allow multiple changes with each

Maybe I'll just make it so you only get the one power when you take the ability.

I like that solution!

monkman: Ok, changed the deflection bonus to +1 (or improving an already existing bonus by +1), and put the untyped comment.

Betropper:I agree with you. This thread seems to be working pretty well by itself. Who really cares how many threads there are or who's running them as long as more cool monster classes are being done?

[Kajhera]

Ankheg (Awakened)

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Hit Dice: d12
{table]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Class Features
1|+0|+2|+0|+0|Ankheg Body, Tremorsense, Tunneling, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
2|+1|+3|+0|+0|Lunge, Ant Lion Attack, Improved Grab, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution
3|+2|+3|+1|+1|Acid Spit, Growth, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution[/table]

Skills: 2+Int (x4 at first level); The ankheg's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Climb (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis)

Proficiencies: An ankheg is proficient with its own natural weapons.

Ankheg Body: A first-level ankheg loses all racial traits and gains the Magical Beast type. It is a medium creature with a base land speed of 30', and a burrow speed of 5'/HD. It gains a bite attack dealing 1d8+1.5*Str modifier damage. It has darkvision 60'. It gains a natural armor bonus equal to his Constitution modifier. It is incapable of fine manipulation and cannot use weapons or shields.

At 8HD, an ankheg's burrowing improves; it can now burrow through solid stone.

Tremorsense: A first-level ankheg gains tremorsense 10'/HD.

Tunneling: A first-level ankheg may construct a usable tunnel by burrowing at half speed. The tunnel is as wide and tall as the ankheg, and usable by creatures of its size or smaller.

Lunge: A 2nd-level ankheg that attacks in a round that they burrow at least 5' may be treated as charging, including the +2 to attack and -2 to AC. If it attacks a creature above ground immediately after emerging from the ground, the creature attacked is flat-footed for that attack.

Ant Lion Attack: If it has already burrowed in the round, a 2nd-level ankheg that attacks and successfully grapples a creature may burrow another 5'/3 HD (minimum 5') as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, taking the grappled creature with it.

Improved Grab: A 2nd-level ankheg that hits with its bite attack may attempt to start a grapple without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Acid Spit: A 3rd-level ankheg gains an acid spit attack, 5'/HD line, damage 1d4/HD, Reflex DC 10+1/2HD+Con modifier for half, usable every 1d4 rounds. An ankheg with less than 50% of its health remaining may deal double damage with this attack, but cannot spit acid for 1 hour afterward, having used up its reserves.

In addition, as long as the ankheg has reserves of acid, its bite attack deals an additional 1d4 acid damage.

Growth: A 3rd-level ankheg grows from Medium to Large size. Its bite attack improves to 2d6+1.5*Str modifier. It is a long creature.

An ankheg continues to grow throughout its life.

At 12HD, it grows to Huge size.
At 20HD, it grows to Gargantuan size.

Comments:

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Shined up Spit Acid a bit, tried to flesh out an ankheg's unique ability to charge people without moving much. It's a tank and an excellent digger, doing both of these from first level.

[Betropper]

Well, it dosen't matter anymore. The other thread officially died out apparently due to the title change.

Now, a new question, what happens with all the monster classes there? Do we still need permission to put them here if no-one is there to use them?

[The Antigamer]

Well, it dosen't matter anymore. The other thread officially died out apparently due to the title change.

Now, a new question, what happens with all the monster classes there? Do we still need permission to put them here if no-one is there to use them?

It hasn't died out, Gorgon changed the title and put the thread on hold while trying to reach a compromise and figure out what was wrong. Apparently his/her PM's have not been answered, however?

[Betropper]

It hasn't died out, Gorgon changed the title and put the thread on hold while trying to reach a compromise and figure out what was wrong. Apparently his/her PM's have not been answered, however?

Yes, but Gordon officially came out and said that he might create a new thread. He's also saying we are endorsing monsters too fast, which I'm sort of agreeing with.

[Kajhera]

Yes, but Gordon officially came out and said that he might create a new thread. He's also saying we are endorsing monsters too fast, which I'm sort of agreeing with.

I know I am. I'll hold off.

[DarkEnar]

Ankheg:Looks quite spiffy, but isn't the 3rd level a little too much? Growth, two score increases, full Bab and spit acid at the same time? I would sugest cuting the score increases on the last level since he gains so much powerfull stuff there.

And I don't get lunge very well. Did you burrow 5 feet, and next turn if you attack you count as charging? Because the way it is written now isn't very clear.

No skills?

Otherwise great work! Love the "double damage when near death"

[TheGeckoKing]

Calling official dibs on the Umber Hulk (It bugs me that it's not on the list..and..OCD....winning...mental..war..). Also, i'll be reposting the Black Dragon and Awakened T-Rex tomorrow, for you all to poke them with sticks.

[The Antigamer]

Yes, but Gordon officially came out and said that he might create a new thread. He's also saying we are endorsing monsters too fast, which I'm sort of agreeing with.

Gorgon said he/she was considering it, I hardly see that as an fficial announcement

And weren't you just pointing out "Right now 2 classes are being graded, one is almost done." I'm confused as to how you can claim that as a reason for a split, then say you're moving too fast.

[monkman]

... I'd rather make monsters than talk politics, so I'm going to throw up an Ankheg class to go back to monsters.

Ankheg (Awakened)

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Hit Dice: d12
{table]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features
1|+1|+2|+0|+0|Insectoid Body, Tunneling, +1 Strength
2|+2|+3|+0|+0|Lunge, Improved Grab, +1 Constitution
3|+3|+3|+1|+1|Spit Acid, Growth, +1 Strength, +1 Constitution[/table]
I dont think that it should get Full bab, It is a beast/insect/vermin
Insectoid Body: An ankheg loses all racial traits and gains the Magical Beast type. It is a medium creature with a base land speed of 30', and a burrow speed of 20'. It gains a bite attack dealing 1d8+1.5*Str modifier damage. It has darkvision 60' and tremorsense of 10' per HD. It gains a natural armor bonus equal to 1.5*Constitution modifier. It cannot use weapons or shields.
Tremorsence should be in another ability, The natural armor should be at con modifier, Not 1.5
Tunneling: An ankheg may construct a usable tunnel by burrowing at half speed. This tunnel is 5' tall and wide.
i think you mean the diameter is of 5 ft.Also this isn't very useful
Lunge: An ankheg that burrows at least 5' in a round before attacking is treated as charging.

Improved Grab: An ankheg that hits with its bite attack may attempt to start a grapple without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Spit Acid: 30' line, damage 1d4/HD, Reflex DC 10+1/2HD+Con modifier for half, usable every 1d4 rounds. An ankheg with less than 50% of its health remaining may deal double damage with this attack, but cannot spit acid for 1 hour afterward, having used up its reserves.

Growth: A 3rd-level ankheg grows from Medium to Large size. Its bite attack improves to 2d6+1.5*Str modifier. It is a long creature.

Comments:

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Shined up Spit Acid a bit, tried to flesh out an ankheg's unique ability to charge people without moving much. It's a tank and an excellent digger, doing both of these from first level.

This class isn't interesting, It's quite vanilla,There's not really much to do with this class. It get's mediocre abilities but the spit acid is nice but it isnt really unique.

[Kajhera]

Ankheg:Looks quite spiffy, but isn't the 3rd level a little too much? Growth, two score increases, full Bab and spit acid at the same time? I would sugest cuting the score increases on the last level since he gains so much powerfull stuff there.

And I don't get lunge very well. Did you burrow 5 feet, and next turn if you attack you count as charging? Because the way it is written now isn't very clear.

No skills?

Otherwise great work! Love the "double damage when near death"

Whoops. Put in skills and proficiencies.

Sought to clarify Lunge. How does it work now?

I cut the score increases, but aesthetically I want to keep a +1 Strength in there. It just looks lopsided otherwise.

Edit: Put Tremorsense in a different ability, will address the rest in a moment.

Edit 2: Normal Ankheg has like ... +9 natural armor. I thought it might enhance its role as a shelled thing to pick the more powerful option of natural armors; though I was torn between doing 1+Con modifier or 2+Con modifier as well. Other creatures that get natural armor bonus equal to their Con bonus tend to be able to use shields, so it seemed reasonable to give them a touch more.

Edit 3: I stole the phrasing from the normal Ankheg. Evidently they make square tunnels.

Edit 4: ... I should reduce the BAB of a melee-oriented magical beast? Okay yeah, I should.

[DarkEnar]

Sought to clarify Lunge. How does it work now?

Good!

I cut the score increases, but aesthetically I want to keep a +1 Strength in there. It just looks lopsided otherwise.

Well I believe score increases are used to help fill levels power-wise. But if you already have powerfull abilities then it isn't needed.

Edit: Put Tremorsense in a different ability, will address the rest in a moment.

One sugestion: dig-by attack! Allow the Ankheg to strike from under earth, strike an oponent and drag them below earth in one swoop! (or retreating in case it failed to grab the oponent)

Isn't something like that it's suposed to do? Spring from the earth, grab a dude by suprise, and then take his prey underground?

[Kajhera]

That's a very cool suggestion.

[Betropper]

Gorgon said he/she was considering it, I hardly see that as an fficial announcement

And weren't you just pointing out "Right now 2 classes are being graded, one is almost done." I'm confused as to how you can claim that as a reason for a split, then say you're moving too fast.

1. I said might be making a new thread.

2. 2 classes in a matter of 2 days is pretty fast for me.

3. it wasn't a reason for a split, it was proof that we are doing OK, just a bit too fast.

[Kajhera]

Changed BAB to 3/4, each level ability bonus to Strength, added Dig-by Attack (called Ant Lion Attack for now), added a new functionality to Lunge, made burrow speed scaling (not sure on this - don't think I scaled it quite right), and stubbornly maintained the natural armor bonus until I get a better option for 'particularly hard-shelled'.

Edit: Added a Constitution bonus to the levels, reduced the Natural Armor to Con modifier, made Ant Lion Attack a touch more specific, and ... probably did something else too. Oh right. Finished Lunge.

[Betropper]

Call dibs on the Gibbering Mouther for now.

[NecroticPunch]

I would like to formally request the creation of an Ak'chazar Rakshasa monster class.

That is all.

[DarkEnar]

I would like to formally request the creation of an Ak'chazar Rakshasa monster class.

Necromantic Rakasha? I call dibs on that!

[monkman]

I think that these threads should be abandoned for some time, We have to figure out what to do, I'm not sure but i think that we should create a thread(friendly banter) and solve this problem there.I think that it should be one of the non participants(not Gorgon and Magicyop) that makes the thread.I the rest of the members(I think) would all agree that there should be no more sharable and that the opposing people should speak to each other and figure out what to do.

[Magicyop]

I'm going to ask you all to read what I have to say fully. Don't skim. This is a complicated issue and it can't be solved in a simplistic way.

My Thoughts On The Thread Split Uproar: Gorgon is over-exaggerating to an extreme about ignoring him/her. We've PMed back and forth, and each time I say I'm willing to talk about a compromise, he/she shoots back some insulting and clear-cut drivel which makes it pretty clear that when things aren't done just as he/she wants, he/she is going to flip. As he/she has. Though he/she's been gentleman/womanly on the thread, I assure, the PMs I've received from him/her are very rude. Further, he/she keeps treating the whole thing with disgust and rage, and then insisting we talk about it like "civilized people."

For now, I do not believe a compromise can be reached until everyone calms down. This thread is going pretty well so far-- we have some new monsters, some new creators, and aside from the business with the other thread, everyone is happy.

Let me be clear: I can understand the point of view of those who cry that this was sudden and without warning. Perhaps things might have been better had we announced our plans before actually going through with them, but hindsight is 20/20. But like Niezck said, this was no split-second decision. We've been debating on how to do this, and whether we should do this, for some time. We decided that for monster classes to move forward in a friendly and equal environment, it was necessary for us to take action.

For now, unless everyone else working with this thread disagrees with me, I think that we should bide our time. Continue working as we have just started doing, and wait for everyone to calm down about the matter. Once everyone is ready to talk about this in an orderly and equal manner, perhaps we can consider a compromise. But my PMs with Gorgon have led me to believe that right now, such a thing is not possible, without all of us who started this thread simply kowtowing to his will.

I understand that many of you feel it was disrespectful, or unfair, to do this. But in the long run, I feel that whatever comes out of it, it will be best that we did it. Whether we maintain work on this thread, or whether we are eventually able to reach a compromise and consolidate the two threads into one, change has and will come, and that was our aim.

If anyone has any strong feelings on the matter who disagree with the current course of action, I would like you to PM them to me or one of the others who helped to create the thread, but I would ask that you voice them respectfully and politely. I've had quite enough of Gorgon cynically defacing our point of view. While I'm willing to discuss the matter, I personally will ignore any messages which I get that are phrased in a disrespectful or angry way.

After all, as ChumpLump pointed out, this is all just about a game, right? By extension? Come on. In the grand scheme of things, this is nothing to get upset about.

Respectfully,
Magicyop



Now that that's out of the way, seems like some great progress has been made this afternoon while I've been away. I agree that it may seem we're taking things a little bit fast, but a couple of these monsters were around in the old thread, and have already been critiqued and edited several times. Doesn't it make sense that it would be quick to get a mostly-finished monster completely finished?

I'll comment on specific classes and stuff shortly.

[Gorgondantess]

Well, I'll break my own rule about not posting in this thread to say this:
Simply saying that I was so rude in our PMs is cheap. If you do not object, I'll post our conversation right here so people can see for themselves.
EDIT: Of course, I did make a political reference, so that'll have to be censored. Posting rules & all.

[Magicyop]

Well, I'll break my own rule about not posting in this thread to say this:
Simply saying that I was so rude in our PMs is cheap. If you do not object, I'll post our conversation right here so people can see for themselves.

If you really want to, be my guest. I can't see how you think it will help anything, aside from perhaps a petty feeling of confidence. All that it will do is make people more upset on both sides of the equation. But if you really want to, you want to inflame this even more, go right ahead.

You called this project "a farce", you explained in no uncertain terms what I had to do to "prove I was sorry to you", (being apologetic and being regretful are two separate things) and you compared the thread split to the civil war. In my opinion, at all times, you've been nothing but childish. You show me one single PM I got from you that was polite and reasonable, and I'll apologize for bringing it up.

Let me be clear-- I want nothing more than for this little squabble to go away. We had the perfectly reasonable right to start our own thread, and verified with several people that we could. Right now, Gorgon, it seems like you just want the fight to rage louder and angrier. Can't we all calm down a little? Do you think a compromise can be reached with everyone upset?

[DarkEnar]

If you really want to, be my guest. I can't see how you think it will help anything, aside from perhaps a petty feeling of confidence. All that it will do is make people more upset on both sides of the equation. But if you really want to, you want to inflame this even more, go right ahead.

PLEASE not in this thread! This is a place for homebrewing monster classes, not solving that kind of problems.