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  1. - Top - End - #751
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Makes sense, tnx (even if "text only" shouldn't take too much time... but thatís subjective, I suppose)
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  2. - Top - End - #752
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    I'm personally still wondering who asked for the motion comic in the first place.


    And really, even with the Kickstarter stuff, does that justify an entire month between updates? Rich during the Kickstarter managed to put out 7 or 8 fully illustrated updates, and since it has ended despite the huge amount of extra work (he got himself on the line for far more than Erf), he's still managed an update a week more or less.
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  3. - Top - End - #753
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    And really, even with the Kickstarter stuff, does that justify an entire month between updates? Rich during the Kickstarter managed to put out 7 or 8 fully illustrated updates, and since it has ended despite the huge amount of extra work (he got himself on the line for far more than Erf), he's still managed an update a week more or less.
    Well one thing you have to take into account is buffer. Most webcomics don't make pages just before they update, they are actually usually atleast several pages ahead. I think Tom over at gunnerkrigg for instance has about a 30 pages already made to act his buffer. I assume Rich has a similar set up and thus the reason he updated 8 times during the kickstarter is not because he found the time to make 8 pages, but because he was pulling pages out of his buffer. If Rob did not prepare such a buffer, then he would have to make pages now when he's busy, while Rich can rely on his buffer to keep an occasional update while he concentrates on other things...

    Another factor would be the timeline Rich gave himself a fair bit of time for all those PDF's, with him making promises extending all the way to the end of the year. For instance, though rich has been working on the kickstarter gifts, he's still hasn't really gotten into the meat of those PDF's he's promised; i'm sure he'll get to it, but he's taking the time he needs to balance out his attention between the kickstarter and the regular order of the stick. However in Rob's case, though i don't recall a promised timeline, i think he's aiming to get the motion comic done asap and thus has given it his primary attention. So in a sense, where they set their priorities could be a factor.

    But really its hard to compare him and Rob when you consider the fact that we really have no idea what they have to deal with on a day to day basis.
    Last edited by slayerx; 2012-04-18 at 03:33 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #754
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Well, he *is* updating the main page. Take a look at the bottom, there is a "status" section describing what he is up to, dated Apr 16th. But, that said, Rob doesnt seem to have any buffer, so not likely going to be updating the actual comic content any time soon, either the strips or the text.

  5. - Top - End - #755
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Either way, the biggest killer of any webcomic is Schedule Slip. I'm not sure if Erfworld is big enough that it won't feel negative effects from this hiatus from sorta-filler.

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  6. - Top - End - #756
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Comic strips that maintain buffers also tend to have consistent reliable schedules for their updates. The ability to ride out the vagaries of irregular distractions from or difficulties with the work of producing new comics without disrupting an update schedule is the primary benefit of buffers, and I have not heard of any cartoonist who had a buffer and did not use it for that purpose.

    I'm pretty sure the Kickstarter bonus week was done by Rich seriously buckling down and putting in an unsustainable level of concentrated work, which he then had to recover from. Also, if he did have a buffer to draw those comics from, he wouldn't have been a day late with the last few.
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  7. - Top - End - #757
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Rich has said that he doesn't maintain a buffer, I believe.

  8. - Top - End - #758
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    If Rich ever had a buffer, it has been eaten away years ago and never rebuilt. His health troubles forced him to go into irregular mode (in the beginning, it used to have a regular update schedule) and often go through long hiatus periods.
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  9. - Top - End - #759
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    A sufficiently-long buffer and a carefully-considered update schedule can allow anyone to generally update on time; all you have to do is look back over the total average rate at which you make comics, and base your release rate over that. Obviously it can't foresee every possibility, but you can totally design your buffer and update schedule to account for multi-month disruptions if you want. Eg. over the past four years, say that a comic has averaged a release every four days; if it had released at a rate of one comic a week and put the rest in the buffer, it would now have a huge buffer and a regular update schedule (although, obviously, we would have fewer comics ourselves -- I think that that would give it a buffer several hundred comics long, which might be excessive!)

    But ultimately it's the author's choice how they update and whether they keep a schedule. Keeping a schedule is generally a very important part of what defines a webcomic, but so is art, and that doesn't stop something like Dinosaur Comics or XKCD from being successful.

    (And some webcomics focus more on the ultimate print publication -- I always got the impression that Erfworld was one of those.)
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2012-04-21 at 10:22 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #760
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    I think that that would give it a buffer several hundred comics long, which might be excessive!)
    I calculate that the buffer would have accumulated about 150 comics over 4 years at that rate. Not quite as excessive as you thought, but still enough to warrant changing the update schedule.

    Using a buffer also requires the discipline to not use its existence as an excuse to delay working on new comics, which a lot of people would have trouble with.

    In any case, this is getting rather close to discussing OotS update scheduling which I think isn't allowed here, so we should probably cut this line of discussion short.
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  11. - Top - End - #761
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    So... Rob posted on Facebook that updates for both the comic and the novel would resume on June 6th, making the comment that he would "try" to get out an update or two before then.

    So yeah, it becomes clear his plan all along was to say "Nope not doing anything at all until June", which is absolutely terrible. It also gets rid of any thoughts that he might be taking advantage of the hiatus to build up a buffer to maintain a reliable schedule going forward, because if that were the case he could go "Yeah I can put out two updates early to keep you guys entertained" or whatever. Yet despite not making a buffer he seems confident he'll somehow be able to maintain a solid pace on two separate stories at once, when he's shown time and again that he can't do so with a single story.

    So yeah, I'm pretty much done with Erfworld now. I love the story, but have lost every scrap of faith I once had in Rob to be able to actually write.
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  12. - Top - End - #762
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    I will probably stick with Erfworld, but it has reached the same place that most of my webcomic list has. If a webcomic updates seldomly enough it loses all of its energy for me, and I just can't care anymore.

  13. - Top - End - #763
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    So... Rob posted on Facebook that updates for both the comic and the novel would resume on June 6th, making the comment that he would "try" to get out an update or two before then.
    That "news" has been at the top of the main Erfworld page for at least a month that I can remember...is this the first time you've noticed?

  14. - Top - End - #764
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    It said that the "main comic" and "Erfworld Book 2" would be on hiatus until June, but not the prequel novel. In fact, the blurb on the main page still states that the prequel novel will continue to update in the meantime:

    Main Comic on Hiatus, Returning June 6
    Erfworld Book 2 has been on hiatus since fall 2011 due to Xin's family situation, but will be returning to regular updates on June 6. In the meantime, I am writing and posting a full-length prequel novel, with occasional illustrations as Xin can manage. This may will be very spotty in terms of its update schedule, but should become more frequent as we get a handle on the motion comic and new website over the summer.
    Last edited by Psychonaut; 2012-04-25 at 08:02 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #765
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    It's getting to the point where I have a hard time remembering to check for an update even once in a week.
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  16. - Top - End - #766
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by dextercorvia View Post
    It's getting to the point where I have a hard time remembering to check for an update even once in a week.
    Here's a tip: don't bother to. If you visit this forum regularly you'll see if a new post was in this thread, and then you can check if there was an update.
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  17. - Top - End - #767
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    The problem with this is that if everyone does that, then nobody will check the site for updates and this thread will never get any new posts. Tragedy of the commons.
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  18. - Top - End - #768
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    I just use the RSS feed with google reader
    http://www.erfworld.com/feed/?source=ignitionfork
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  19. - Top - End - #769
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Or that. But I prefer to not put too much stuff in my Google Reader, so I hope people who use the RSS feed post on the forum. And if not, I probably shouldn't read anyway.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Aha, a little art update for page 5. Isn't Wanda just the cutest little caster as she is lying there in bed ... strarring into the eyes of a dead man ... that she helped kill earlier ... while contemplating on how she will turn his body into an unholy affont to nature first thing in the morning. Wanda, you are my favorite.
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  21. - Top - End - #771
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Anyone notice that someone deleted the thread on erfworld.com where people were discussing the lack of updates?

    I also noticed that all the negative comments on the facebook page were deleted.

    Obviously Erfworld has entered the "pretend nothing at all is wrong and piss off your fans" phase...

  22. - Top - End - #772
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    He's gone as far as to implement forum and Facebook bans on anyone who dissented at all.

    Completely done with his crap. I hope some of the Kickstarter folk start howling for refunds.

    Also, apparently you can't make mention of any of his censoring on wikipedia or it causes you to get warned/banned.

  23. - Top - End - #773
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    I have officially been banned from Erfworld for posting yesterday in what was obviously a blacklisted thread. My 'dissent' was to post that I felt that rob was initially in the wrong, however claiming rob held contempt for his fans was not a productive stance, as it was likely untrue and would only lead to him dismissing the ones trying to have a productive discussion about the schedule.

    In longer, more heartfelt terms of course, I would repost it however the thread, and indeed all of my posts are completely gone. He is not banning dissent, he is permanently deleting the account of anyone who has an opinion who is also not one of the 'kickstarter crowd'.

    When I contacted the site about the issue, I was given a curt 'sorry' and told that I was merely some of the good tissue who had been cut out with the bad.

    I have long cared for Erfworld, and Rob can try to make this into non-fans vs fans, however I at least hope that he will exercise a little more administrative control in the future, because though there is nothing he can do about what he did to my account, he could at least in the future desist from these kind of reflexive actions that solve nothing.

  24. - Top - End - #774
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Wow, not even banning but deleting? That's just sad.

    As a site owner I know it's tempting sometimes :) but especially with customers it's always important to take the high road.

    Also, as people say, the truth is out there. I managed to find all of the first thread "Updated Posting Schedule" and the first and last pages of the second thread "Erfworld in on hiatus..." which includes much of the now-deleted facebook conversations as well.

    The saddest part is, for the effort of deleting all that crap, the problem could have been solved much better by simply posting an update. No matter how late it is, people tend to be more forgiving when they have content.

    Now that the drama in the forums is gone, I have zero reason to visit the site anymore and I'm taking it out of my favourites. Maybe I'll check it out again someday. And to think, I almost put money into their kickstarter... good thing I didn't!

  25. - Top - End - #775
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Guardian View Post
    Anyone notice that someone deleted the thread on erfworld.com where people were discussing the lack of updates?

    I also noticed that all the negative comments on the facebook page were deleted.

    Obviously Erfworld has entered the "pretend nothing at all is wrong and piss off your fans" phase...
    How fascinating...

    Quote Originally Posted by cervidal View Post
    He's gone as far as to implement forum and Facebook bans on anyone who dissented at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by reignofevil View Post
    He is not banning dissent, he is permanently deleting the account of anyone who has an opinion who is also not one of the 'kickstarter crowd'.
    There's some delusion of grandeur, here?

    Quote Originally Posted by reignofevil View Post
    I have long cared for Erfworld, and Rob can try to make this into non-fans vs fans,
    The fact is that, theoretically, all the ones following erfworld should be fans.
    Is Rob trying to turn this into some sort of "blind followers" Vs "regular fans"?
    That would be very sad... and also the most "loyal" follower, sooner or later can be bored by the total lack of updates.
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  26. - Top - End - #776
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Angel View Post
    There's some delusion of grandeur, here?
    Not entirely sure what you are asking for this, are you implying Rob has such delusions, or rather that we are delusional for believing that 'deleting anyone who has an opinion and is not a member of the kickstarter crowd' is his intent?

  27. - Top - End - #777
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    That actually is really sad. I was under the impression I was the only one banned (being the main person arguing with him on Facebook). Indeed, he gave me a nice long winded email about how I was only the 6th person he had ever felt the need to ban, making it clear he felt I was in a class all of my own in hatred for him (which I found really funny given how it came after I had dialed it down to a reasonable discussion tone as opposed to my kneejerk cursing from when I first heard he intended to stop all updates completely). So in the course of the last day or so it's gone from me being a terrible person all on my own, to banning anyone else who felt similarly at all? That's getting kind of ridiculous.

    I wonder if everyone else who got banned was also 'fired' and told not to read anymore.
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  28. - Top - End - #778
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by reignofevil View Post
    Not entirely sure what you are asking for this, are you implying Rob has such delusions, or rather that we are delusional for believing that 'deleting anyone who has an opinion and is not a member of the kickstarter crowd' is his intent?
    The former. Kinda "Nobody can judge me! No one can dare to criticize!".
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    Great analysis KA. I second all things you said
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  29. - Top - End - #779
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Angel View Post
    The former. Kinda "Nobody can judge me! No one can dare to criticize!".
    Ah, I see how it is meant to be read, a kinda "heavens forbid" kinda tone.

  30. - Top - End - #780
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    {{scrubbed}}
    Last edited by Mark Hall; 2012-05-04 at 11:08 PM.

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