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  1. - Top - End - #1171
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    I just don't believe the first three could explain it. Remember, Charlie is completely driven by beating Parson right now. As far as we can tell, he has no other motivation at all in this fight. He's investing large amounts of money, using valuable casters, sending several Archons of his own, and so forth, all for... what?

    I find it hard to believe he'd be this determined to kill Parson purely over a snub or just because Parson manage to get one up on him, once.
    He's afraid of Parson being "the future conqueror of Erfworld", as Wanda described Haffaton all those turns ago. That plus the TPK nature of "getting one up on him, once", plus possibly the rival motivation, could easily explain why he's thrown so much into this fight.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    I find it hard to believe he'd be this determined to kill Parson purely over a snub or just because Parson manage to get one up on him, once.
    Don't be so sure. Charlie has always been the winner, even if he lost it still benifited him in some way. He was the puppet master pulling the strings in Erfworld. But then Parson shows up and BEATS him several times. Parson is someone he can't control, can't be manipulated like everyone else. Parson is a threat to Charlies entire worldview and his place in the world. Many people commited murder and worse atrocities for this very reason throught the ages.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChowGuy View Post
    Which proves that Don King saw through the bat, but why assume Charlie did? There were at least half a dozen archons also looking "where the bat was" and Charlie could at least as easily still be able to monitor everything they see.

    He's even demonstrated to Jillian that he could see "GK's new Chief Warlord" (Ansom) at the battle of Uniroyal. Where was the "bat" that let him see that? He also gave Jetstone a dossier with BeauCoup data on Parson. Of course he's not going to say how he got it though, and let his allies know the true extent of his intelligence on their "common enemy" - not if he can still parlay that into a win-win for himself.
    Maybe the link failed to show the right comic?

    Try this link: http://www.erfworld.com/2012/09/book...80%93-page-87/

    Frames one and two are discussing things from Bunny and Don King's perspective. Frame three shifts to the Arkendish and says "from where that bat was looking anybody could have seen it." This is explicitly talking about anyone who had the same view. But we, the readers, know that Charlie has an undisclosed ability to intercept Thinkamancy communication (Eye-books, Maggie's thinkagrams with the front, etc.). Thus, the same frame obliquely hints at Charlie having seen the same information we are now privy to. As far as I'm aware, this is a cinematic storytelling device, though I do not know the name/trope associated with it.

    Oh, and as far as we know, the Archons at the battle are all under Wanda's control and were not using thinkagrams at the time of their hunt and extermination. We also have no knowledge about Charlie's ability to see through their eyes post-decryption.

    Your reference to the battle of Unaroyal is, at least to me, a very different criterion to judge this situation on. One: Both the battle and subsequent intelligence revelations are done in text. Two: Insufficient detail about those scenes is given to maintain some mystery of Charlie's capabilities. For all we know he has foolamancy-capable archons following all major forces of interest and spying on them.

    Does my thinking on this make sense? I'm not dismissing your argument, though I have to admit the second paragraph makes less impact on me than I would like.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius Twist View Post
    Your reference to the battle of Unaroyal is, at least to me, a very different criterion to judge this situation on. One: Both the battle and subsequent intelligence revelations are done in text.
    Summer Update #41
    Charlie pressed on, though. "And you didn't lose what you think you did. Not completely." The image in Jillian's mind turned into a strange picture. It was a set of drawn velvet curtains, in deep blue. "I need to show you something. If you find this as disturbing as I do, please consider accepting my counsel and assistance, both in secret."

    She shook her head in bewilderment. Her mount shifted beneath her, nervously. "All right."

    The curtains pulled back. Behind them was a still image, in full color and excellent clarity.

    "The Chief Croakamancer and Chief Warlord of Gobwin Knob, six turns ago, as they seized the city of Orgchart."
    For all we know he has foolamancy-capable archons following all major forces of interest and spying on them.
    That would be extremely dangerous, as Haggar demonstrated, since commanders can spot veiled archons. Plus, archons themselves have been shown to see through foolamancy. Not to mention that they would have to be in GK's battle space, and their presence at least would therefore be detected in the turn order. Charlie has attempted to insert scouts into GK's battlespace before, and been told by Parson what to expect. He didn't like it.

    Oh, and as far as we know, the Archons at the battle are all under Wanda's control and were not using thinkagrams at the time of their hunt and extermination.
    Under Wanda's/GK's control yes, but we have a number of references that note that the archons still feel their primary loyalty is to Charlie and that they consider their duty to GK as simply being under the equivalent of a "full services contract." We even have a canon reference of an archon scout in that very battle thinking of, and calling out Charlie as an ally.

    But we, the readers, know that Charlie has an undisclosed ability to intercept Thinkamancy communication (Eye-books, Maggie's thinkagrams with the front, etc.).
    If you have any canon references showing him able do do more then chat with Parson through an eye-book (one of it's primary functions) and in particular to intercept Maggie's messages, please provide links. Otherwise all I see is confirmation bias of a speculative but yet unverified theory of some of the MK's GMtTA.


    ETA: ref/link to Phoebe
    Last edited by ChowGuy; 2012-09-24 at 10:59 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #1175
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

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    An escape? Real, imagined or did Wanda allow it to happen?

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Charlie can hear thinkagrams through the G-strings, it is implied that any Thinkamancer can but do not...
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
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    An escape? Real, imagined or did Wanda allow it to happen?
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    Real, I think. Could Wanda be sure Jillan would not croak her if given half a chance? After such treatment?
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Is anybody having trouble loading Erfworld ? Whenever I try to get it it starts to load and then I get a page telling me my search engine couldn't find 'dashboard' ?
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Charlie sets up situations where no matter who loses or wins he wins even if it isn't the best thing for his plans. He plays both sides, and he does it well. Parson won't play ball, and Charlies simply deals with those that don't allow him to profit and compromise and manipulate.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miklus View Post
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    Real, I think. Could Wanda be sure Jillan would not croak her if given half a chance? After such treatment?
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    Engaging a Croakamancer (any caster, really) of an unknown level (though it's assumed high given the number of people she says she's killed) right next to the capital city of the side without armor or a proper weapon?

    Yeah, Wanda's safe. Even if Jillian COULD win it would be too big of a risk to try.
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  11. - Top - End - #1181
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

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    It was a touch easy for Jillian, though. Surprising how underdefended Haffaton is. I suppose it's a lot easier to be lax about defense when your ace in the hole completely shuts down any attack.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landis963 View Post
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    It was a touch easy for Jillian, though. Surprising how underdefended Haffaton is. I suppose it's a lot easier to be lax about defense when your ace in the hole completely shuts down any attack.
    Also, Haffaton is MASSIVE. I'm more surprised that captives can escape in this manner at all =/ does she take her turn with Haffaton since she's a captive?
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    Also, Haffaton is MASSIVE. I'm more surprised that captives can escape in this manner at all =/ does she take her turn with Haffaton since she's a captive?
    Frankly I'm more surprised that river isn't better defended. if she should have been discovered anywhere, she should have been discovered there.

    EDIT: Which is to say, agreed.
    Last edited by Landis963; 2012-09-26 at 05:55 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #1184
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Presumably Wanda's stone garden is right in the centre of Haffaton territory, and in a game like Erfworld where all units have a fixed amount they can move in a day, all you need is a ring of defences around the outside--you don't need much in the middle. Of course, Jillian is likely to hit that ring of defences sooner or later, which is when things might get interesting!

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    There is more to the lack of defenses then that. In one of the text updates there was a comment, that bigger sides have a constant money problem. I think it means, that the more cities you have, the less money each one gives. It might be akin to the corruption mechanism from old Civilization games.
    Last edited by Radar; 2012-09-27 at 02:44 AM.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landis963 View Post
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    It was a touch easy for Jillian, though. Surprising how underdefended Haffaton is. I suppose it's a lot easier to be lax about defense when your ace in the hole completely shuts down any attack.
    seems more than likely that the mechanics of erfworld work against haffaton, as in its too costly to maintain such a large side. The reason they use uncroaked despite not liking them is likely because they are low cost units. Haffaton is so large that all the upkeep generated by its cities are only enough to maintain their forces on the outer perimeter. They can't afford adequate defenses for most of their cities, so they make due with just under defending their cities and making use of traps that would weaken anyone that might get inside.

    Most sides would eliminate those costs by just spinning off new sides that would be loyal allies to the old side, but for some reason Haffaton has been trying to keep it all together.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    The larger your empire, the further any of your cities/production centers are from the front. You also get longer borders and, unless you have dependable allies on some of them (which it seems Haffaton does not), more fronts on which you are likely to be fighting. While supply lines per se don't seem to matter in Erf, troop movements do - much of their total army at any one time is likely to be in or enroute to marshalling areas somewhere. Without a conquered civilian population though there's no need for occupation troops, so homeland defenses can be skimped on, and apparently are.

    This isn't the first time we've seen this - when Jillian bailed on the battle of Spacerock, she announced her intention of going after some lightly defended GK cities on the way home.
    Last edited by ChowGuy; 2012-09-27 at 05:14 AM.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

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    Back in the MK. The Carnymancers are up to something. Some kind of head games. But I think the Carnymancers missed a few things. One is Wanda. Head games don't work on her so well (she has been through much worse) and she probably still is fully juiced up (and the Pliers if there is combat). She also may know a little carnymancy. And probably more importantly there is Jack. I don't think they can even see him behind Parson. I just hope he has some juice left.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
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    Back in the MK. The Carnymancers are up to something. Some kind of head games. But I think the Carnymancers missed a few things. One is Wanda. Head games don't work on her so well (she has been through much worse) and she probably still is fully juiced up (and the Pliers if there is combat). She also may know a little carnymancy. And probably more importantly there is Jack. I don't think they can even see him behind Parson. I just hope he has some juice left.
    Parson does nothing. Is that really a 'spoiler' anymore?

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    I have admit that I'm confused by the Carnymancers. Do they work for Charlie, or do they want Charlie to win? Or do they want to continue to conflict and keep everything confused? I don't understand their motivation, and therefore don't understand their role in the story.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by elros View Post
    I have admit that I'm confused by the Carnymancers. Do they work for Charlie, or do they want Charlie to win? Or do they want to continue to conflict and keep everything confused? I don't understand their motivation, and therefore don't understand their role in the story.
    Right now, the carnymancers are trying to maintain the neutrality of the Magic Kingdom. That's their role.


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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by elros View Post
    I have admit that I'm confused by the Carnymancers. Do they work for Charlie, or do they want Charlie to win? Or do they want to continue to conflict and keep everything confused? I don't understand their motivation, and therefore don't understand their role in the story.
    The one resambling George Harrison has made a deal with Charlie way in the past, so he is obviously paying the debt here. The rest of them might just be willing to help him or are seriously against the idea of using Magic Kingdom as a troop transport system.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by stsasser View Post
    Parson does nothing. Is that really a 'spoiler' anymore?
    Au contraire! He's going to execute his lack of a plan!
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Angel View Post
    Au contraire! He's going to execute his lack of a plan!
    Considering that Parson can think very good on his feet, that is almost as bad as when he has An Idea.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Something that struck me about the latest strip - the Predictamancers know Parson is going to get through the portal... but they don't know if he'll do it in one piece. Another one for "Predictamancers aren't as smart as they tell everyone they are", it seems.
    Last edited by Morty; 2012-09-30 at 02:50 PM.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Something that struck me about the latest strip - the Predictamancers know Parson is going to get through the portal... but they don't know if he'll do it in one piece. Another one for "Predictamancers aren't as smart as they tell everyone they are", it seems.
    Fate has an "end justifies the means" sort of MO. Remember Delphie? She Predicted that Wanda would work for Haffaton eventually. And, eventually, she did. But Fate didn't care what happened to everyone around her. It's the same principle here. Fate only cares that Parson makes it through the Spacerock portal, not who dies to get him there. It's much more likely that Predictamancers perpetually work off incomplete information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zap Dynamic View Post
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    Something that struck me about the latest strip - the Predictamancers know Parson is going to get through the portal... but they don't know if he'll do it in one piece. Another one for "Predictamancers aren't as smart as they tell everyone they are", it seems.
    From the sound of it, Predictamancers only know certain things about the future, such as 'this unit will go here' or 'this side will fall' - the details are up to erf and luck.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Predictamancers only know about what Fate decides. I seem to recall Delphie making a point about how, with the exception of Wanda, her side HAD no Fate. Hell of a revelation, being told that you are literally the only person out of your entire side important enough for Fate to take notice.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    On the new update:
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    I like =3 So we see how you normally tame a dwagon without the hammer, AND that drugs apparently exist in this world in a manner that can be passed on by eating people that have taken them. (the only other instance i've seen was that healing elixir thing the healomancer drank and 'flaking' in the magic kingdom, implying that drugs were types of spells)
    Last edited by HalfTangible; 2012-10-01 at 01:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
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    I like =3 So we see how you normally tame a dwagon without the hammer, AND that drugs apparently exist in this world in a manner that can be passed on by eating people that have taken them. (the only other instance i've seen was that healing elixir thing the healomancer drank and 'flaking' in the magic kingdom, implying that drugs were types of spells)
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    Also nice to see more of the world's rules laid out. Seems like fugitives really get to work for their freedom.
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