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  1. - Top - End - #1291
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    The awkward thing about this note's prediction is that there aren't very many things Jillian can lose.

    We know her father survives, because she's not Overlord when her side falls.

    We know Jack survives, because he's still alive.

    We know Wanda and Jillian both survive, of course.

    We know FAQ survives up until Stanley smashes it later.

    There's not really anyone else she cares about! Everyone who went out on missions with her is already dead. She loathes the other casters at FAQ. She could suffer a bit (and so could everyone else), but at this point we more-or-less know that she wins, so the note's warning of all the loss and suffering she'll get for not listening to it seems a bit odd.
    Your misreading the warning. the Warning is about what MAY happen should Jillian try to avoid her fate of helping Wanda in her transition. Because we know she wins we know that she took the easy way; she followed her fate, acquired wanda and moved on. However, IF Jillian tried to avoid coming in contact with Wanda ever again, then there is no telling what she would loose...

    For instance she could try to ignore the note and continue on, but then in the future haffaton would find Faq and destory it and her father leaving her with only the forces she could evaculate with; from there she should fight against haffaton finally getting in the capital strike that would bring wanda into her fold... the outcome is the same, but this one cost the life of her father, and the original capital

    The cruel irony is that even though Jillian did follow her fate, Faq and Banhammer were lost and Wanda and Jack separated from her. Though granted, that could be more wanda's fault... Wanda may not have realized it herself, but fate may have deemed she needed to join up with Stanley and there were other ways wanda could have done that in which would not have led to Faq's end...

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    There's not really anyone else she cares about! Everyone who went out on missions with her is already dead. She loathes the other casters at FAQ. She could suffer a bit (and so could everyone else), but at this point we more-or-less know that she wins, so the note's warning of all the loss and suffering she'll get for not listening to it seems a bit odd.
    Because you aren't thinking it all the way through. She's supposed to contact and help Wanda as soon as possible. She is planning on making a Capital Strike against Haffaton. Being an Heir, Wanda shouldn't disband if she's not in a city when her side falls. Jillian IS going to be joining Wanda soon, she's simply doing it by capturing her instead of turning. Though I suspect if she realized this, she'd not do it purely out of spite.
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  3. - Top - End - #1293
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Losing her father and her kingdom aren't enough of a loss? No matter how annoyed she gets with her father's decisions, Faq is still her home and Banhammer is still her father, and we know that the sequence of events she's just set in motion end up with her losing both!
    Banhammer's and Faq's fall weren't avoidable; Marie already predicted it.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie Welf View Post
    Banhammer's and Faq's fall weren't avoidable; Marie already predicted it.
    Predictamancy doesn't work that way, as far as we know--it's not a 100% guarantee that what is predicted will happen. Delphie, also a Predictamancer, tried to manipulate Wanda into a different course in order to avoid the future she predicted, and I don't think she'd have bothered if that future was set in stone and unavoidable, do you?

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Jillian, you really need to learn how to keep your mouth shut.

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    And Olive Branch is back. She is a level 12! Frankly, I would rather be around nutso Wanda than Olive. Maybe Wanda will get the opportunity to finally gang the <explitive delted>.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Predictamancy doesn't work that way, as far as we know--it's not a 100% guarantee that what is predicted will happen. Delphie, also a Predictamancer, tried to manipulate Wanda into a different course in order to avoid the future she predicted, and I don't think she'd have bothered if that future was set in stone and unavoidable, do you?
    Actually predicted events will happen no matter what. It's just that they are a bit vague and only chosen events can be predicted. Delphi predicted, that Wanda will serve under Olive Branch and tried to make it true in the most favorable way.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Predictamancy doesn't work that way, as far as we know--it's not a 100% guarantee that what is predicted will happen. Delphie, also a Predictamancer, tried to manipulate Wanda into a different course in order to avoid the future she predicted, and I don't think she'd have bothered if that future was set in stone and unavoidable, do you?
    Delphie didn't try to avoid what she Predicted, she tried to choose how to fulfill it.

    Predictamancy, from everything shown so far, is in fact a 100% guarantee that what is Predicted will happen. It's just that it Predicts only specific details rather than the whole picture. Delphie Predicted that Olive would be Wanda's Chief Caster for a long time. She did not Predict how this would come to pass. Given that one certainty, she attempted to arrange for it to happen by means of a voluntary trade, thereby putting Wanda under Olive's command - as Predicted - while improving Goodminton's position by whatever Haffaton was willing to pay for her.

    For Jillian's situation, the following things have been Predicted: Wanda will serve FAQ for some amount of time; Jillian will be involved in how this happens; King Banhammer will die; FAQ's capital city will fall. Those are officially unavoidable. How they happen is up for grabs.

    Jillian could lead FAQ's entire army to take Haffaton city, as she seems to be planning; she could make a one-person raid; she could turn herself in and talk Wanda into defecting together; she could get captured, get taken back to Wanda, and talk her into defecting; or any number of other possible routes for Wanda to switch allegiances with some manner of prompting by Jillian.

    FAQ could fall to Haffaton; FAQ could be overrun by barbarians; FAQ could raze its own capital; FAQ could go bankrupt and disband; FAQ could get taken by surprise by some other side (as we know from our privileged audience position eventually happens with Stanley).

    Banhammer could get croaked when FAQ is taken (by whoever); Banhammer could suicide by walking through the Magic Kingdom portal; Banhammer could lead an army in the field and die there; Banhammer could trip and fall, breaking his neck in a freak accident.

    Certain extremely specific outcomes are dictated by Fate and revealed by Predictamancy. That still leaves a great deal of flexibility in how those outcomes happen and what any related outcomes are, and planning and scheming to make the best of it - still fulfilling every Predicted detail in its entirety, but in the manner you choose - can work, and that is what the best Predictamancy is all about.
    Last edited by douglas; 2012-11-01 at 09:39 AM.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Jillian, you really need to learn how to keep your mouth shut.

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    And Olive Branch is back. She is a level 12! Frankly, I would rather be around nutso Wanda than Olive. Maybe Wanda will get the opportunity to finally gang the <explitive delted>.
    That's basically what I said, when she ran into the Archons! And why didn't she assume that anything Olive Branch does is a trap? She's run slap-bang into both the poison apples and the chillaxe, then she fails to get out of her perch before it becomes an enemy unit (in other news, that's how tannenbaums are made) and then puts a flower that Branch tossed her in her hair. Where it attached to her head and drugged her.
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  10. - Top - End - #1300
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landis963 View Post
    and then puts a flower that Branch tossed her in her hair. Where it attached to her head and drugged her.
    To be fair, I think it had already drugged her, just not to the full extent that being on the head allowed.

    Jillian's real mistake was mentioning the bombing tactic. That both told Olive that further measures were necessary and gave her the idea of dropping something on Jillian from above - which apparently doesn't count as an attack even if it is something dangerous and deliberate.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    To be fair, I think it had already drugged her, just not to the full extent that being on the head allowed.

    Jillian's real mistake was mentioning the bombing tactic. That both told Olive that further measures were necessary and gave her the idea of dropping something on Jillian from above - which apparently doesn't count as an attack even if it is something dangerous and deliberate.
    Fair enough. Although it's surprising that the "dropping things" exploit hasn't achieved greater notoriety. We've seen it twice now - the first time being the "harvest the dragons" ploy Parson used against Jetstone.
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  12. - Top - End - #1302
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landis963 View Post
    Fair enough. Although it's surprising that the "dropping things" exploit hasn't achieved greater notoriety. We've seen it twice now - the first time being the "harvest the dragons" ploy Parson used against Jetstone.
    Except this is a prequel, remember? Parson hasn't even been summoned yet.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Except this is a prequel, remember? Parson hasn't even been summoned yet.
    That was my next thought. It is plausible, given that Haffaton is nowhere to be seen in the present day and Faq is still (technically) a bubble kingdom, that no one knew about it. Jillian would have been able to recognize and react to the "it's raining dwagons" ploy if she was present at the battle, but of course she left as soon as Wanda and Jack declined her offer.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landis963 View Post
    That was my next thought. It is plausible, given that Haffaton is nowhere to be seen in the present day and Faq is still (technically) a bubble kingdom, that no one knew about it. Jillian would have been able to recognize and react to the "it's raining dwagons" ploy if she was present at the battle, but of course she left as soon as Wanda and Jack declined her offer.
    They WERE aware of the ballistic properties of battlecrap, it's why they'd had the dwagons moved away from the tower as a condition of parley. Which also happened to be exactly what Parson wanted. The exploit in play there was changing zones off-turn, not attacking without engaging.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landis963 View Post
    That's basically what I said, when she ran into the Archons! And why didn't she assume that anything Olive Branch does is a trap? She's run slap-bang into both the poison apples and the chillaxe, then she fails to get out of her perch before it becomes an enemy unit (in other news, that's how tannenbaums are made) and then puts a flower that Branch tossed her in her hair. Where it attached to her head and drugged her.
    My thoughts too, Seriously Jillian, get it together. *Sigh* If you gotta be dumb, you gotta be though, I guess.

    And you CAN get past level 10! I've wondered about that for a long time.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miklus View Post
    My thoughts too, Seriously Jillian, get it together. *Sigh* If you gotta be dumb, you gotta be though, I guess.

    And you CAN get past level 10! I've wondered about that for a long time.
    There is no level cap, it's just exponentially harder to gain new levels.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Not exponentially, logarithmically
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fjolnir View Post
    Not exponentially, logarithmically
    If it's exponentially harder, then even with a linear increas of XP gain over levels you get approximately logarythmic function of levels gained over time - that's what most online RPG games are build around.

    If it were logarythmically harder to gain new levels, then with linear increase in XP gain, you would gain levels faster with each level gained, which is not very balanced.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Olive Branch, a Dame with style. You should kill her on sight.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Angel View Post
    Olive Branch, a Dame with style. You should kill her on sight.
    More like

    "Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure".

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    I think I see Charlie's plan at this point.

    He wants Parson to pass through the portal, at which point:

    1. The people in Jetstone will close it behind him by changing the capital.

    2. A decapitation strike of subverted Gobwins, cloaked Archons, and perhaps his casters pouring in from the portal will take out Stanley. Since the portal in Jetstone in closed, they won't be able to retreat to the magic kingdom or to Stanley when they realize he's under attack.

    This will result in Parson getting frozen as a neutral in Jetstone, where he can be easily captured.

    Am I missing anything? Everything seems to point to that plan, anyway.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Well, several problems there:

    a) The idea of someone attacking another side through the Magic Kingdom was literally unthinkable before Parson just decided to do it!

    b) Even without that, how is Charlie going to get all those forces through the portal into Gobwin Knob?

    c) For all Charlie (and us, for that matter) knows, Parson will disappear once his side ends just like almost all other units in Erfworld do. Only heirs are known to be able to remain behind as barbarians, and Parson certainly isn't that!

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    We just have to stop and remind ourselves that every person in the Ma3verse is a horrible, awful human being. Except Eric, because he has no personality. Then it all makes sense again.
    Just as much as posting in the wrong thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    c) For all Charlie (and us, for that matter) knows, Parson will disappear once his side ends just like almost all other units in Erfworld do. Only heirs are known to be able to remain behind as barbarians, and Parson certainly isn't that!
    Almost: units in the cities belonging to a side, which ruler was killed without leaving a heir, remain frozen in time unless someone attacks the city. Still, it would not work in this situation, since Spacerock is still a Jetstone city.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    Just as much as posting in the wrong thread.

    Almost: units in the cities belonging to a side, which ruler was killed without leaving a heir, remain frozen in time unless someone attacks the city. Still, it would not work in this situation, since Spacerock is still a Jetstone city.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    b) Even without that, how is Charlie going to get all those forces through the portal into Gobwin Knob?
    He doesn't actually have to. The Gobwins are, presumably, already there (they overthrew a ruler like this once before.) His Archons could be there, too, since they're good at going invisible. I assume he just called the Carneymancer in for backup, and this is what Marie is waiting for -- for the other side to be the first to break the MK's neutrality.

    But attacking through MK isn't really the important part (I only mentioned it as a "maybe" because it fits with what Marie is waiting for.) We already know that Charlie has subverted Gobwin Knob's gobwins, and that they murdered king Saline IV once. Likewise, we've already seen that he's very good at hiding Archons in key locations.

    c) For all Charlie (and us, for that matter) knows, Parson will disappear once his side ends just like almost all other units in Erfworld do. Only heirs are known to be able to remain behind as barbarians, and Parson certainly isn't that!
    Not if Parson is allowed to capture the city first. In that case, it will go neutral with him in it, unable to take actions.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2012-11-03 at 03:40 AM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    So, on last update:

    Jillian, who has been hunted for turns and has been on the tip of her toes the whole time, sits in a tree and watches a powerful and ruthless hippiemancer touch it to capture her. And then Jillian, who rather endured brutal torture for many turns than giving away any information to Wanda and instead manipulated Wanda with lies and misinformation to get free, gives away her escape plan. Lesson learned Jillian. But fate has decided on some plot points to happen, and so the characters have to act accordingly.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Nothing wrong with giving away your escape plan when you know the other side can't stop it. How do you stop a yellow from crapping without engaging it?
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by NEO|Phyte View Post
    Nothing wrong with giving away your escape plan when you know the other side can't stop it. How do you stop a yellow from crapping without engaging it?
    The other side is an extremely high level caster, and of a discipline Jillian doesn't know much about. "Assume she has a way" should be an extremely basic tenet of typical guidelines for how to handle such a situation. Casters have such extreme power and versatility in Erfworld that any time you encounter one, especially one that's high level and/or of an unfamiliar discipline, you should assume she has a dozen tricks you've never heard of. In particular, you should never assume that none of these tricks could foil your plan if she knows of it.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    The other side is an extremely high level caster, and of a discipline Jillian doesn't know much about. "Assume she has a way" should be an extremely basic tenet of typical guidelines for how to handle such a situation. Casters have such extreme power and versatility in Erfworld that any time you encounter one, especially one that's high level and/or of an unfamiliar discipline, you should assume she has a dozen tricks you've never heard of. In particular, you should never assume that none of these tricks could foil your plan if she knows of it.
    Especially when you realise you'd lost all your troops tnx to (probably) that particular caster.
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    THIS is proof that KA is amazing
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    Killer Angel, you have an excellent taste in books

    Avatar removed, work in progress...

  30. - Top - End - #1320
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    New page up.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Jillian has turned into a Flower junkie without realizing it. And we get to meet someone new of importance.

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