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  1. - Top - End - #1321
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Again Oz, mh?

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    Well, we have an addicted Jillian, that probably revealed lots of infos about FAQ. Wow... if this weren't a flashback, Haffaton's side would be a great BBEG
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

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    I wonder if it's going to be Wanda that "wakes Jillian up".

  3. - Top - End - #1323
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

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    Yeesh. If Dorothy doesn't let our reckless hothead have her flower fix, she's liable to end up croaked for it. Wouldn;t that be a heck of a way for Haffaton to fall?

    Also: Jillian Banhammer?? She signed her message to FAQ Jillian Zamussels which is the name she's always used. I assumed Banhammer reigned under his given/adopted name rather then the house name just as in Stupidworld (ie 'King George' instead of 'King Windsor' or for that matter 'Queen Jillian') so wassup?
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  4. - Top - End - #1324
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Hmm... Is this the significance (Signamancy?) behind Wanda's skull-and-flower livery? We haven't seen that she ever had a flower addiction, but she certainly would have known about them, and the imagery seems too close for it to be a coincidence. So why would Wanda choose livery that evokes Haffaton?
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  5. - Top - End - #1325
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    He doesn't actually have to. The Gobwins are, presumably, already there (they overthrew a ruler like this once before.) His Archons could be there, too, since they're good at going invisible. I assume he just called the Carneymancer in for backup, and this is what Marie is waiting for -- for the other side to be the first to break the MK's neutrality.

    But attacking through MK isn't really the important part (I only mentioned it as a "maybe" because it fits with what Marie is waiting for.) We already know that Charlie has subverted Gobwin Knob's gobwins, and that they murdered king Saline IV once. Likewise, we've already seen that he's very good at hiding Archons in key locations.
    Um, when did we find out that Charlie subverted the gobwins? I thought the implication was that Stanley had turned the gobwins, and initiated the coup himself. Or are you talking about Charlie having turned the gobwins post-volcanoe? Still don't know where that information is, though.

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  6. - Top - End - #1326
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by headwarpage View Post
    Hmm... Is this the significance (Signamancy?) behind Wanda's skull-and-flower livery? We haven't seen that she ever had a flower addiction, but she certainly would have known about them, and the imagery seems too close for it to be a coincidence. So why would Wanda choose livery that evokes Haffaton?
    The same morbid ideals that drove her to build a graveyard for the people she croaked? Statues and tombs for dead enemies, incorporating a symbol into her livery for a dead side?
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by headwarpage View Post
    Hmm... Is this the significance (Signamancy?) behind Wanda's skull-and-flower livery? We haven't seen that she ever had a flower addiction, but she certainly would have known about them, and the imagery seems too close for it to be a coincidence. So why would Wanda choose livery that evokes Haffaton?
    I'm guessing the flower represents her mind control over the skull - her decrypted undead.
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  8. - Top - End - #1328
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    I thought the implication was that Stanley had turned the gobwins, and initiated the coup himself.
    Where was that ever implied? Other then by Stanley-haters on the forum. Because Sizemore in recounting the incident never did. The "Charlie did it" theory has neither more nor less support in canon.
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  9. - Top - End - #1329
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Um, when did we find out that Charlie subverted the gobwins?
    There is no proof yet, but Parson suspects Charlie.

    I thought the implication was that Stanley had turned the gobwins, and initiated the coup himself.
    That was Ansom's theory.
    We have seen the story as told by Sizemore and Stanley.

    As far as we know Stanley, such a manoever would be not his style, and I doubt that he even knows the gobwins could be influenced/bribed to do such a thing...
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by hajo View Post
    There is no proof yet, but Parson suspects Charlie.

    As far as we know Stanley, such a manoever would be not his style,
    and I doubt that he even knows the gobwins could be influenced/bribed...
    The question is then "Who did influance the gobwins and why?"

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    The question is then "Who did influance the gobwins and why?"
    Assuming Charlie wants the hammer (and the other arkentools too), but didn't know Stanley was made heir.
    Had the whole setup worked as planned, Stanley (and all other witnesses) would have disbanded on their way back from FAQ, dropping the hammer in the field.

    So Charlie could have just come around and collect the hammer as his tool#2.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Charlie doesn't strike me as the type to not know about the heir thing, especially if he was actively planning to depose the side to get at the Arkenhammer.
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  13. - Top - End - #1333
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by NEO|Phyte View Post
    Charlie doesn't strike me as the type to not know about the heir thing, especially if he was actively planning to depose the side to get at the Arkenhammer.
    And (agreeing) neither does Charlie strike me as someone seeking to collecte other Arkentools.

    He seems quite content being attuned to the Arkendish and being Erfworlds most successful mercenary.

  14. - Top - End - #1334
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by hajo View Post
    Had the whole setup worked as planned, Stanley (and all other witnesses) would have disbanded on their way back from FAQ, dropping the hammer in the field.
    Again, there is no evidence that the two incidents are related. In fact, Sizemore noted that Stanley "took me and a number of other casters" but neither he nor Maggie give any indication of knowing that FAQ exists as a possible destination when Stanley later bugs out.

    Significantly, he also makes no mention of having met Wanda on that mission, so we have no way of knowing if she was already with GK when he became Overlord. Her own story implies that he had only recently acquired the Hammer, which is why she thought he was a pushover, while Sizemore refers to him "winning many battles" with it while still under Saline - it's one of the reasons he was made heir.
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  15. - Top - End - #1335
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by hajo View Post
    Assuming Charlie wants the hammer (and the other arkentools too), but didn't know Stanley was made heir.
    Had the whole setup worked as planned, Stanley (and all other witnesses) would have disbanded on their way back from FAQ, dropping the hammer in the field.

    So Charlie could have just come around and collect the hammer as his tool#2.
    That is a rather complicated plan I think. As chief warlord Stanley was out in the field regularly with his troops. The easier way to get the Hammer would have been to ambush him with a couple dozen of archons. And he could have tried to get paid for it by some of GK's rivals.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie Welf View Post
    That is a rather complicated plan I think. As chief warlord Stanley was out in the field regularly with his troops. The easier way to get the Hammer would have been to ambush him with a couple dozen of archons. And he could have tried to get paid for it by some of GK's rivals.
    Stanley might be in the field alot, but he almost always has a number of powerful dwagons with him and the hammer is a very potent weapon. If ambushed, it would be a real question of who was ambushing who. Also Charlie likes to work indirectly. His current more open actions are the result of him being more than a little worried about GK in general and Parson in particular.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Stanley might be in the field alot, but he almost always has a number of powerful dwagons with him and the hammer is a very potent weapon. If ambushed, it would be a real question of who was ambushing who. Also Charlie likes to work indirectly. His current more open actions are the result of him being more than a little worried about GK in general and Parson in particular.
    He sent 35 archons to take over GK to get the mathamancer artefact. That wasn't very subtle.
    Taking out Stanley would have been quite a challange; but Charley had the ressources, and people robably would have at least paid him for it. With good strategy and some casters (findamancer and predictamancerfor praparation) it should have been doable.
    Last edited by Sweetie Welf; 2012-11-07 at 04:19 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #1338
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie Welf View Post
    He sent 35 archons to take over GK to get the mathamancer artefact. That wasn't very subtle.
    Taking out Stanley would have been quite a challange; but Charley had the ressources, and people robably would have at least paid him for it. With good strategy and some casters (findamancer and predictamancerfor praparation) it should have been doable.
    GK was weak and hated by pretty much all of its neighbors when that happened, though, and Charlie was already allied with GK's enemies, so he didn't stand to lose much by acting in the open. Croaking Saline's favorite warlord to steal an Arkentool, OTOH, would have invited retaliation. Also, Charlie prefers playing games that are rigged in his favor, and directly attacking Stanley would likely have resulted in an unnecessary loss of several archons.

    (Not saying that he's responsible for Saline's death, mind you. It's plausible, but the evidence is ambiguous at this point.)

    The other suspicious thing to keep in mind about the whole Faq mission/Saline assassination*, aside from the Gobwins turning on Saline, is how Stanley ran into so many dragons on the way to Faq:

    "Now, I was Chief Warlord back then, so I could do whatever I wanted. I told the King I was going off to tame dwagons in the high mountains out west, he didn't care. I headed out with like fifteen of 'em in a couple of stacks. Wanda said Faq was pretty weak, so I figured that'd be enough.

    "Wow, was she wrong! Faq had a whole lot of casters, and they had defense spells up the wazoo. I could never have taken that city with fifteen dwagons. Never! I lost more than ten on approach, shot down from the tower."

    He looked at Zidane, who seemed interested now that it was about a battle. Stanley grinned, "Ha! And you're wondering, 'so how did he get out of that one?' Right?"

    "Yes, Lud," Zoidberg said, deferentially.

    "Well, you forget! I am the Titans' favorite son," said Stanley. He put the knife down in a pile of cheese shrapnel and picked up the Arkenhammer, which he waved with authority. "The Titans provided! I told King Saline I was going out to tame dwagons, right? Well holy Monsters of Rock, did I! Never seen so many feral dwagons. All the way to Faq I kept finding them in ones and twos, and there were three in this one hex! Only time I ever saw that."
    * I concur with ChowGuy that these were probably separate (though possibly related) incidents, based on a comparison of Stanley's and Sizemore's accounts of them. Specifically, in Stanley's description of sacking Faq he states that he brought some dwagons with him and "figured that'd be enough", suggesting that he didn't bring any other noteworthy units. In Sizemore's account of Saline's assassination, he states that Stanley brought him and multiple other casters along.
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  19. - Top - End - #1339
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    I sort of suspect Stanley as being behind Saline's death. He takes all the casters out of the city to ensure they don't get croaked, and obviously still had the gobwins as natural allies. There was also a text update from the point of view of a hobgobwin that had been around for the event, and he'd felt bad about lying to Parson about it. Don't recall if it gave any hints as to who was behind it.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Really, that kind of gambit isn't Stanleys style. Charlie yes. And there is one more player, Wanda. But I don't see how she could have pulled it off.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    Really, that kind of gambit isn't Stanleys style. Charlie yes. And there is one more player, Wanda. But I don't see how she could have pulled it off.
    I'll agree that it isn't at all Stanley's style, but he's been known to have moments of clarity, like the eyemancer linkup. Assuming that was a singular event, Wanda had been manipulating him into seeking out the other Arkentools, perhaps she put the idea in his head that he could work better as overlord rather than chief warlord. It would also fit with her talking about the things she's done in her quest to attune.
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  22. - Top - End - #1342
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Wanda working through Stanley, perhaps?
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychonaut View Post
    * I concur with ChowGuy that these were probably separate (though possibly related) incidents, based on a comparison of Stanley's and Sizemore's accounts of them. Specifically, in Stanley's description of sacking Faq he states that he brought some dwagons with him and "figured that'd be enough", suggesting that he didn't bring any other noteworthy units. In Sizemore's account of Saline's assassination, he states that Stanley brought him and multiple other casters along.
    Also, Sizemore specifies that the special mission only took one turn. It takes at least two turns to get to Faq and back, since it took Stanley more than a turn to get back from the pass after going there and turning around.

    I'd say it looks like Stanley was at least a party to it, possibly egged on or manipulated towards it by someone. (Wanda, Charlie, or even Maggie are all possibilities.) It's just too much of a coincidence for him to take all the most valuable units and skip town for exactly one turn.

    Charlie is the most likely person, since we've had hints that he has some sort of influence over the Gobwins before (Parson calculates that he's likely the reason they haven't re-allied.)
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2012-11-08 at 09:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Charlie is the most likely person, since we've had hints that he has some sort of influence over the Gobwins before (Parson calculates that he's likely the reason they haven't re-allied.)
    I thought it was more that there WASN'T gobwins anymore, not that they didn't re-ally. Been ages since I've gone through the old text updates.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    They are going to be slow getting pages out for awhile I guess. Rob had his gall bladder taken out which is not minor surgry.

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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    So, it looks like Olive used the pink flowers to brain-jack her own leader. We know from Maggie that it is possible if the caster believes it is the best thing for her side.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard Lord View Post
    So, it looks like Olive used the pink flowers to brain-jack her own leader. We know from Maggie that it is possible if the caster believes it is the best thing for her side.
    Or if a unit has low enough loyalty. Maybe the overlady was originally incredibly bloodthirsty and Olive hated working for her.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by HandofShadows View Post
    They are going to be slow getting pages out for awhile I guess. Rob had his gall bladder taken out which is not minor surgry.
    Yikes! This kind of surgery is no laughing matter, espesially if there are "complications". Get well, Rob!

    So, it looks like Olive used the pink flowers to brain-jack her own leader. We know from Maggie that it is possible if the caster believes it is the best thing for her side.
    Olivie is easily the biggest monster in the whole comic, Wanda included. A poisoner, a pusher and a coward for using her music to avoiding fighting. Self-rightious to boot.

    If Jillian has any brains at all she will croak Doherty right there and then. There is a good chance it will disband Olive, unless Olive is a heir or is currently in the Haffaton capital. Ten schmuckers says Wanda put Jillian where she just woke up so she could do just that.

    As for Stanley becoming overlord, I don't think he set up Saline IV. It's just not his style and why would he? Saline let him do whatever he wanted. I suspect Wanda. She wanted Stanley to become overlord so she could manipulate him into questing for the other arkentools. I assume Wanda was part of GK at that point.

    I believe Stanley incredible luck with the dwagons was fate. Stanley can't die. Not until he has used the arkenhammer to do the Titans will, whatever it is.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miklus View Post
    Olivie is easily the biggest monster in the whole comic, Wanda included. A poisoner, a pusher and a coward for using her music to avoiding fighting. Self-rightious to boot.
    Poisoner, pusher, and self-righteous monster, definitely. Coward? I think she'd prefer the term "pragmatic". She was popped a Hippiemancer, she's just using the tools available to her. Of course, the fact that she uses the tricks of her trade so well makes her all the more annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miklus View Post
    If Jillian has any brains remaining after the brain-jacking flower she will croak Doherty right there and then. There is a good chance it will disband Olive, unless Olive is a heir or is currently in the Haffaton capital. Ten schmuckers says Wanda put Jillian where she just woke up so she could do just that.
    Fixed. And I can totally see this being the climax of this part of Inner Peace. Even if Olive is an heir, it drastically removes the grand majority of her resources. And you're on. Ten schmuckers says Wanda didn't put Jillian where she could assassinate the Overlady of Haffaton. Jillian just happened to wander into the same field looking for her next fix.
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    Default Re: Erfworld, The Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landis963 View Post
    And you're on. Ten schmuckers says Wanda didn't put Jillian where she could assassinate the Overlady of Haffaton.
    That's a sucker bet, since Miklaus isn't claiming Wanda put her there (nor is anyone else.) It was Olive who last had possession of the Jillian Ball.
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