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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Jan 2005

    Default [3.5] Reining in SoD/SoL

    I'm in the middle of a major and likely overly ambitious project to rebuild a lot of 3.5. Enough said about that for now, but I'd like to get feedback on ways to have Save-or-Die/Save-or-Suck spells in 3.5-ish D&D without anticlimactic one shot kills. This idea isn't fully formed yet, but here's what I'm considering:

    Willpower
    All or nearly all characters (PCs and monsters) gain a willpower rating. Willpower works like hit points and scales similarly to hit points. Say we want paladins to be highly resistant to SoD effects and have lots of willpower, and rogues to have mediocre willpower. Each time he gains a level, a paladin gains 6 willpower and a rogue gain 3. Willpower gained per level scales with some stat (probably Wisdom).

    Save-or-Die Spells vs Willpower
    SoD/SoL/SoS spells only take effect on characters with a certain amount of willpower or less, but also damage the target's willpower. This replaces spell resistance, and HD limits on low-level spells. Some examples:

    Sleep
    All creatures in a 10' radius burst must make a will save or suffer 1d8+caster level willpower damage and be fatigued for the duration. Creatures reduced to 0 willpower fall asleep for the duration instead.

    Hold Person
    The target suffers 1d8 willpower damage per caster level, to a maximum of 10d8, and becomes exhausted for the duration. If the target has 0 willpower after the willpower damage, it is paralyzed for the duration instead. A successful will save halves willpower damage and negates the fatigue or paralysis. The target can make a new will save each round to end the fatigue or paralysis effect.

    Phantasmal Killer
    The target must make a will save or suffer 3d6 HP damage and 1d8 willpower damage per caster level (maximum 15d8). If the target has 0 willpower after the willpower damage, it must make a fortitude save or die.

    Regaining Willpower
    Characters regain 1 willpower per character level after each minute of non-strenuous activity. A character at 0 willpower suffers no penalty beyond the effect of whatever spell reduced him to 0 willpower.

    Creatures with Spell Resistance
    Creatures with SR lose their SR but gain bonuses to willpower, usually +3 per HD. Creatures in 3.5 that have SR because they're designed to fight high level casters rather than because they're designed to be boss monsters may just lose their SR and not get the bonus.

    Which spells use the willpower mechanic?
    Any spell that targets one or more creatures, and:

    1) Save-or-Lose: disables the target or prevents it from taking actions (Hideous Laughter, Stinking Cloud)...

    2) Save-or-Lose 2: changes the target's behavior in a way that renders it incapable of functioning in combat (Dominate Person, Fear, Confusion)...

    3) Save-or-Suck: imposes mechanical penalties large enough to prevent the target from fulfilling its role in combat for several rounds (Blindness, Bestow Curse), or...

    4) Save-or-Die: Kills the target or removes it from the field entirely (Phantasmal Killer, Dismissal).

    Spells don't use the willpower mechanic if they impose short duration debuffs (like knocking the target prone) or that penalize but don't completely cripple the target. Some spells that don't depend on the target's current willpower might still deal willpower damage. Necromancy SoDs like Slay Living probably make more sense with a HP threshold than willpower.

    Battlefield control spells are a whole different problem and probably shouldn't use the willpower mechanic.

    Why not do it by HP?
    "I can't charm that guy, I have to hit him with a fireball first."

    P.E.A.C.H.
    This is a work in progress and I'm not the first person to invent a buffer against status effects. What would you guys change about this? And can anybody think of a blanket rule to implement it without rewriting dozens of spells?
    Last edited by stainboy; 2011-01-06 at 07:15 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Near Atlanta,GA USA
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    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Reining in SoDs

    Just a minor note:
    You are using the terminology imprecisely... most of your examples are Save-or-Lose (Sleep, Dominate, Dismissal) or Save-or-Suck (Blindness/Deafness, Fear, Confusion, Bestow Curse)...

    Related to this is the fact that "or that penalize but don't completely cripple the target." is VERY vague, and could use a lot of expansion/definition. That might be a large part of this project actually.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Jan 2005

    Default Re: [3.5] Reining in SoDs

    Yeah, I know. I got tired of typing SoD/SoS/SoL. I'll go through and edit that though.

    Coming up with a proper list of spells would be a big part of this, even if there was a blanket rule about how much willpower damage a spell did or what mechanics if any were replaced by willpower.
    Last edited by stainboy; 2011-01-06 at 07:17 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Reining in SoD/SoL

    In my campaign I use a mechanic where SoD/etc spells deal unrecoverable (or at least slow-recovering) ability drain to boss-type creatures/villains instead of killing/dominating/etc them. Fort-based SoDs are Con drain, Will-based SoDs are Wis drain or Cha drain usually. Its fluffed as the spell killing/dominating/etc only a part of their body or mind. If the ability drain takes them to zero, the spell effect applies as normal. The PCs don't have the major SoDs yet, so I'm not sure how this will play out. The drain should probably be something like 1pt per spell level of the SoD spell used.

    I've also toyed with the idea of making the save DCs different for SoD spells than other spells, namely:

    For most spells and effects, the save DC would gain a bonus equal to half the caster level/initiator level/HD of ability-user depending on which is appropriate.

    For short-duration shut-down spells (paralyzed for 1d4 rounds, etc), the save DC only gains a bonus of a quarter of the level.

    For save or dies/long-duration shut-down spells, the save DC gains no bonus and a nat 1 does not auto-fail.

    The logic is that by the time SoDs are available, most boss-type creatures that the party would encounter have saves that far exceed the save DCs of most of the party's effects, thus making SoDs a non-option against them but still valid against mooks without shutting down every other spell in the game that allows a save.

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