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    Default [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Fatetamer
    “My destiny is whatever I say it is.”

    The Fatetamers are in some ways similar to the Warblades and Swordsages who study the same arts as them, and in other ways utterly different. Their numbers are made up exclusively of those with immense natural talents, who defy physical limits and manipulate their inner powers without even realising that’s what they do. Although they regularly train, or even learn from other martial adepts, they can reach the peak of their power only be doing what comes naturally to them.

    MAKING A FATETAMER
    A Fatetamer is a frontline combatant, similar to any other martial or initiating class. It focuses on taking out its opponents quickly, due to its weaker defences.
    Abilities: Strength, Dexterity, and Charisma are the most important abilities for the Fatetamer. Charisma governs their class abilities, whereas Strength and Dexterity are important in combat. To play a Fatetamer who can take a hit, Constitution is also important.
    Races: Due to their sheer numbers and a tendency towards ambition, many Fatetamers are human. Other Fatetamers often come from self-assured races-Spellscales are common, as are elves.
    Alignment: Fatetamers, due to their natural talent, are often chaotic. However, this is by no means a hard and fast rule. Fatetamers come from all alignments.
    Starting Gold: 4d4x10 (100gp)
    Starting Age: As Sorcerer

    Class Skills The Fatetamer’s class skills (And the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Martial Lore (Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex). In addition, the skills of any disciplines you gain access to using this class also become class skills for you.
    Skill Points at 1st Level: 6+int (Multiply by four)
    Skill Points at each Level: 6+int

    Hit Die: d6

    Fatetamer
    Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Maneuvers Known Maneuvers Readied Stances Known
    1st
    +0
    +0
    +2
    +2
    First Strike +1, Call of Destiny 5 3 1
    2nd
    +1
    +0
    +3
    +3
    6 4 2
    3rd
    +2
    +1
    +3
    +3
    Kiting Blade-Dodge 7 4 2
    4th
    +3
    +1
    +4
    +4
    Killing Blow +2 8 5 2
    5th
    +3
    +1
    +4
    +4
    First Strike +2 9 5 3
    6th
    +4
    +2
    +5
    +5
    Kiting Blade-Mobility 10 6 3
    7th
    +5
    +2
    +5
    +5
    Killing Blow +4 11 6 3
    8th
    +6/+1
    +2
    +6
    +6
    12 6 3
    9th
    +6/+1
    +3
    +6
    +6
    Kiting Blade-Spring Attack 13 7 4
    10th
    +7/+2
    +3
    +7
    +7
    First Strike +3, Killing Blow +6 14 7 4
    11th
    +8/+3
    +3
    +7
    +7
    15 8 4
    12th
    +9/+4
    +4
    +8
    +8
    Kiting Blade-Bounding Assault 16 8 4
    13th
    +9/+4
    +4
    +8
    +8
    Killing Blow +8 17 8 4
    14th
    +10/+5
    +4
    +9
    +9
    18 9 5
    15th
    +11/+6/+1
    +5
    +9
    +9
    First Strike +4, Kiting Blade-Rapid Blitz 19 9 5
    16th
    +12/+7/+2
    +5
    +10
    +10
    Killing Blow +10 20 10 5
    17th
    +12/+7/+2
    +5
    +10
    +10
    Ignition 21 10 5
    18th
    +13/+8/+3
    +6
    +11
    +11
    Kiting Blade-Dance of Reckoning 22 11 5
    19th
    +14/+9/+4
    +6
    +11
    +11
    Killing Blow +12 23 11 5
    20th
    +15/+10/+5
    +6
    +12
    +12
    Melded Style, First Strike +6 24 11 6

    Weapon and Armour Proficiencies: A Fatetamer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, but no armour or shields. Armour interrupts many of their class abilities.
    (Note that although they do not gain shield proficiency, if they gain it through another method, it does not interrupt their abilities.)

    Maneuvers: A Fatetamer begins with knowledge of five martial maneuvers from any five different disciplines. Fatetamers vary greatly in their fighting styles. At first level, choose any five martial disciplines that can be gained by any initiating class at first level. These are your class disciplines.
    A Fatetamer may use Martial Study to access other disciplines, as normal. However, to gain true access to another discipline, he must use the discipline's access feat, if there is one, or take Martial Stance in that discipline to represent prolonged study.
    Once you know a maneuver, you must ready it before you use it. A maneuver used by Fatetamer is an extraordinary ability, unless otherwise noted in its description. If a maneuver used by a Fatetamer requires a saving throw, it is always based on their Charisma modifier, even if it would normally be otherwise. Your maneuvers are not affected by spell resistance, and initiating a maneuver does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
    You learn additional maneuvers at higher levels, as shown in the table. You must meet a maneuver’s prerequisite to learn it. To determine the highest level maneuver you can learn, simply halve your initiating level (to a minimum of one.)
    Upon reaching 4th level, and each level thereafter, you can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one you already know. In effect, you lose the old maneuver in place of the new one. You can choose a maneuver of any level you like, as long as you obey your restriction on the highest level maneuvers you know; you need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level. You can swap only one maneuver at any given level, and you never have to.

    Maneuvers Readied: You can ready three of your five maneuvers known at first level, and as you advance in level and learn more maneuvers, you are able to ready more, but you must still choose which maneuvers to ready. You ready your maneuvers by exercising and concentrating for five minutes. The maneuvers you choose remain readied until you decide to meditate again and change them. You need not sleep or rest for any long period of time to ready your maneuvers; any time you spend five minutes in meditation, you can change your readied maneuvers.

    You begin an encounter with all your readied maneuvers unexpended, regardless of how many times you might have already used them since you chose them. When you initiate a maneuver, you expend it for the current encounter, so each of your readied maneuvers can be used once per encounter (unless you recover them, as described below).

    You can recover an expended maneuver by using a full round action to concentrate and reflect on the fight, and how you plan to finish it. Doing this does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If you do this, you can choose one expended maneuver to refresh. It is now available for use in a subsequent round.

    Stances Known: You begin play with knowledge of one 1st level stance from any discipline open to you. At 2nd, 5th, 9th, 14th, and 20th level, you can choose additional stances. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not expended, and you do not have to ready them. All the stances you know are available to you at all times, and you can change the stance you currently use as a swift action. A stance is an extraordinary ability unless otherwise stated in the stance description. Unlike with maneuvers, you cannot learn a new stance at higher levels in place of one you already know.

    First Strike: A Fatetamer relies on getting the first strike. They gain a +1 bonus to initiative checks, and whenever they make a charge or utilise the Spring Attack feat, they gain +10ft to all their speeds until the end of the round.

    This ability increases by +1 and +10ft at 5th level, and each five levels thereafter.
    At 20th level, this ability increases by an additional one.

    Call of Destiny (Ex): Trying to harm a Fatetamer is harder than it ought to be. They wear no armour, and are often lithe and light of form, but striking them is difficult.
    A Fatetamer can add their Charisma bonus to AC, as long as they are uncencumbered and wearing no armour. This bonus applies even against touch attacks or if you are flat-footed. However, the Fatetamer loses these bonuses when immobilized or helpless.

    Kiting Blade: A Fatetamer relies on speed and agility to never remain close to their foe. At 3rd level, they receive Dodge as a bonus feat. They continue moving up this feat chain, gaining Mobility at 6th level, Spring Attack at 9th, Bounding Assault at 12th, and Rapid Blitz at 15th. In all cases, if they already possess this feat, they may select a fighter or warblade bonus feat instead.

    At 18th level, a Fatetamer may make as many attacks while using Spring Attack as he may make in a full attack. Any penalties he would normally suffer, such as a -2 penalty for using Snap Kick, are applied as normal. This is treated as both a Spring Attack and a full attack, and benefits from abilities that use both.
    As a special note, a Fatetamer may use this ability in conjunction with the maneuver Time Stands Still, and may move at any time before, during, and after the attacks, but may still only move his normal speed.

    Killing Blow: When charging or using a spring attack, a Fatetamer of at least 4th level gains an untyped bonus to damage on all attacks. This bonus starts at +2, and increases by another two at each third level after 4th. (+4 at 7th, 6 at 10th…)

    This ability does not function in armour.

    Ignition: A Fatetamer of at least 17th level, begins combat with a furious display of power. When making a full attack, the first attack can be replaced with any maneuver that takes a standard action to initiate, and requires an attack roll.

    Melded Style: A 20th level Fatetamer has consummate skill, attained in a way that would make any studious warrior flinch. Their styles are an unholy fusion of different disciplines.
    A 20th level Fatetamer can enter two stances at once, gaining the benefits and penalties of both.

    THE EPIC FATETAMER
    Spoiler
    Show
    Level Abilities
    21 Bonus Feat
    22 Killing Blow +14
    23
    24 Bonus Feat
    25 First Strike +7, Killing Blow +16
    26
    27 Bonus Feat
    28 Killing Blow +18
    29
    30 Bonus Feat, First Strike +8

    An Epic Fatetamer's First Strike and Killing Blow abilities continue to advance after 21st level. At 21st level, and each third level thereafter, they gain a bonus feat. This can be used on any fighter feat, or any feat that interacts with maneuvers, disciplines, or otherwise fits the class well.


    PLAYING A FATETAMER
    Above all else, you are a warrior. Out of combat, you can serve as a spy with use of Move Silently and Hide, or even a diplomat, but it is battle where you truly shine.
    Religion: Gods of battle and of martial skill are most common among Fatetamers. Kord is a particular favourite, as is Garyx.
    Other Classes: Fatetamers find common ground with Sorcerers, who also manipulate reality without training, although to a greater extent. Other initiators tend to think of them as having ‘stole’ their skills, rather than having earned them.
    Combat: You are at your best while moving. Using the Spring Attack feat chain, you can charge each turn, making a full attack on your foe and dashing past them. Ideally, you can avoid being hit.
    Advancement: Fatetamers are well placed to take on an initiating prestige class, due to their wide discipline choices.

    FATETAMERS IN THE WORLD
    ”They give real warriors a… an annoyingly good name.” ~Eraius, Swordsage
    Most people would find it impossible to tell the difference between a Fatetamer and another initiator, while anyone with formal martial training can see the difference .
    Daily Life: Fatetamers vary greatly, with few sharing many characteristics. Nonetheless, it is common for them to begin the day by practicing their fighting skills.
    Notables: Larissa, a powerful Fatetamer, single handedly slew a dangerous dragon as it attacked a small village. On the other hand, a Fatetamer by the name of Iliana spent several years killing every warrior she saw in a quest for ultimate power.
    Organisations: Few Fatetamers belong to organisations, although some of them join societies of initiators, like Warblades and Swordsages often do.

    NPC Reaction
    Fatetamers tend to be treated the same as any other initiator. At low levels, they are merely a warrior, while at high levels, their defiance of the very laws of reality makes them akin to powerful magic users-that is to say, often shunned by normal folk.

    FATETAMERS IN THE GAME
    Fatetamers are an alternative for Cha based characters without a religious bent, focussing more on the personality aspect of Charisma.
    Adaption: Fatetamers could be similar to Sorcerers; relying on arcane blood to improve natural fighting talents.
    Encounters: An arrogant Fatetamer could easily be an antagonist, insisting that his skill gives him the right to take over a village, or even a country or plane. That said, a Fatetamer could equally ally with the PCs to defeat a tyrannical foe.

    Feats
    Spoiler
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    Student of Broken Fate
    Prerequisites: About to or already have taken at least one level of Fatetamer.
    Benefits: Class abilities normally based on Charisma are instead based on Intelligence.
    Normal: You don't put hard work and study into it, you're just awesome!

    Understanding the Kobayashi Maru
    Prerequisites: About to or already have taken at least one level of Fatetamer.
    Benefits: Class abilities normally based on Charisma are instead based on Wisdom.
    Normal: You're not ignoring fate cause you know how and you understand, you throw caution to the wind. And go beyond the impossible.
    Last edited by Lix Lorn; 2014-04-04 at 11:23 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Full BAB, two good saves, 4+Int skills, one fewer maneuvers known/readied than the swordsage, any six martial disciplines, charisma to AC and the Warblade's capstone. Also it makes every other ubercharger look stupid.

    Yeah, this is way, way too much. It makes the warblade look like a chump. It makes the crusader look like a chump. Let's not even mention the swordsage.
    Last edited by gkathellar; 2010-12-12 at 06:17 PM. Reason: I look like stupid.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Worse hit die, worse skills than the swordsage. Marginally worse maneuvers readied progression too. Also, unlike swordsage, can't wear even light armour.
    It's much stronger on the attack, but weaker on defence.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Does melded style even do anything at 18?
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Oops. Typo. xD Thanks.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Why does it have the Warblade's capstone 2 levels early?

    Also, 6 disciplines, chosen by the player, is too strong, especially with 24 !!! maneuvers known. I would recommend reducing maneuver known and readied to a warblade level (or crusader at max) and to make it a max of 4 disciplines, especially if you want to leave it free to the player to choose them.

    Also, the ubercharging potential on this is ridiculous. If you want to let them initiate maneuvers after a charge, make it so it takes all of their pounce attacks, and not just 1.

    Also, this needs to use Cha for more than Ac, or else there is little reason to not just put armor you aren't proficient with.
    Last edited by Dead_Jester; 2010-12-12 at 06:38 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Worse hit die,
    Only matters at low levels. At high levels, it becomes completely irrelevant, due to rocket tag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    worse skills than the swordsage.
    Uh, no. Reread the swordsage skill list, this is much better. Do you mean the 4+Int instead of 6+Int? That's not much of an edge, 4+Int is pretty good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Marginally worse maneuvers readied progression too.
    By one. Again, that's a really small difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Also, unlike swordsage, can't wear even light armour.
    Again, only relevant at low levels. Armor bonuses to AC are easy to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    It's much stronger on the attack, but weaker on defence.
    At level one, it has little defense at all. So much so that it's almost unplayable at first level. No, wait, it can wear leather armor and have rogue-level defense.

    Past that its defense is acceptable and its offense is significantly better than even the warblade's. Additionally, charisma synergy is immense, and since you get your capstone at level 18 (a capstone the warblade doesn't get until level 20), dipping is obvious. Or you could toss out charisma altogether, dip fighter, and get armor proficiency.

    Besides, what kind of ubercharger needs defense?
    Last edited by gkathellar; 2010-12-12 at 07:27 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    4+Int is pretty good.
    Most of your points were really good, but I'm gonna object here. 2+Int is crap, and no class should be subjected to it unless they're Int based, like wizard. 4+Int is only slightly better, and still not that good.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    I would actually suggest limiting their selection of disciplines. For example having Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Devoted Spirit, White Raven Tactics, Shadow Hand, and Desert Wind means this guys automatically gets all the "signature" disciplines of the other classes. REALLY not cool.

    And six is also too much.

    I would opt for actually choosing which one they get. E.g. They would get Diamond Mind, Stone Dragon, Coin's Edge, and let's say....Army of One.

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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Yeah, handing out the signature disciplines strikes me as a bad plan. So does handing out 6(!) disciplines. I suggest that if you want options, give them access to maybe four disciplines which are available to at least two classes. That kils two birds with one stone.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Chiming in that 6 disciplines is too much. Also, is Call of Destiny an untyped bonus to AC?
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Sorry Lix. I have to agree with everybody else, this steps out of line with the other Martial Initiators. This would of course be okay if that was the intent of your Homebrew, like with a standard class redux.

    Also, this class leaves too much room after Melded Style for dips. I mean, who is going to hang around for 1 or 2 manuvers, or an extra +1 to +2 bonus to something miscellaneous? They'll probably all be dipping into Paladin for Charisma to saves, or into something else even cooler than that.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    One problem I see is that since the Fatetamer only gets 4 skill points, but can pick maneuvers from 6 different schools, s/he needs a +2 int modifier in order to be able to max out all skills associated with the chosen schools.
    Now, I don't know if that's intended or not, but it was something that I felt was a bit strange.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by drakir_nosslin View Post
    One problem I see is that since the Fatetamer only gets 4 skill points, but can pick maneuvers from 6 different schools, s/he needs a +2 int modifier in order to be able to max out all skills associated with the chosen schools.
    Now, I don't know if that's intended or not, but it was something that I felt was a bit strange.
    That... is a good point. I should probably push it up to six skill points. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Roc Ness View Post
    Sorry Lix. I have to agree with everybody else, this steps out of line with the other Martial Initiators. This would of course be okay if that was the intent of your Homebrew, like with a standard class redux.

    Also, this class leaves too much room after Melded Style for dips. I mean, who is going to hang around for 1 or 2 manuvers, or an extra +1 to +2 bonus to something miscellaneous? They'll probably all be dipping into Paladin for Charisma to saves, or into something else even cooler than that.
    Point. I put it at 18 as a 'no PrC' reward, but I'll move it back to 20.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Antigamer View Post
    Chiming in that 6 disciplines is too much. Also, is Call of Destiny an untyped bonus to AC?
    Okay okay. I'll change that.
    Yes, same as the Swordsage and the Monk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead_Jester View Post
    Why does it have the Warblade's capstone 2 levels early?
    Cause I didn't know that was the Warblade's capstone, and thought it'd be good as a No-PrC-reward.

    Also, 6 disciplines, chosen by the player, is too strong, especially with 24 !!! maneuvers known. I would recommend reducing maneuver known and readied to a warblade level (or crusader at max) and to make it a max of 4 disciplines, especially if you want to leave it free to the player to choose them.
    I'd really rather not. It's meant to be varied and eclectic, which is why it has almost as many options as a Swordsage.

    Also, the ubercharging potential on this is ridiculous. If you want to let them initiate maneuvers after a charge, make it so it takes all of their pounce attacks, and not just 1.
    Why? Iterative attacks aren't amazingly powerful.

    Also, this needs to use Cha for more than Ac, or else there is little reason to not just put armor you aren't proficient with.
    You use them for maneuver save DCs, but primarily it's best for cross class synergy.

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    Uh, no. Reread the swordsage skill list, this is much better. Do you mean the 4+Int instead of 6+Int? That's not much of an edge, 4+Int is pretty good.
    I based it on the Swordsage list. That said, I think I'll remove the lions share. Hide and several others are only on there because of them being possible maneuver requirements.

    By one. Again, that's a really small difference.
    Still a difference.


    Again, only relevant at low levels. Armor bonuses to AC are easy to get.
    But nothings as easy as armour.

    At level one, it has little defense at all. So much so that it's almost unplayable at first level. No, wait, it can wear leather armor and have rogue-level defense.
    How so? Decent Dex and Cha will give you bearable AC. Not great, but that's not reallu the point.

    Past that its defense is acceptable and its offense is significantly better than even the warblade's. Additionally, charisma synergy is immense, and since you get your capstone at level 18 (a capstone the warblade doesn't get until level 20), dipping is obvious. Or you could toss out charisma altogether, dip fighter, and get armor proficiency.
    Moved the capstone up to 20.

    Besides, what kind of ubercharger needs defense?
    Their philosophy entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Random_person View Post
    Yeah, handing out the signature disciplines strikes me as a bad plan. So does handing out 6(!) disciplines. I suggest that if you want options, give them access to maybe four disciplines which are available to at least two classes. That kils two birds with one stone.
    That makes sense... but I really like the varying disciplines. I think I'll lower BAB-they charge, giving them +2 to hit, it's not necessary-and leave the disciplines mostly untouched.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Moved the capstone up to 20.

    ...

    That makes sense... but I really like the varying disciplines. I think I'll lower BAB-they charge, giving them +2 to hit, it's not necessary-and leave the disciplines mostly untouched.
    This should fix most of the problems I can see. Average BAB lowers the potential for ubercharging abuse tremendously, capstone at 20 weakens dips. I disagree with the idea that certain "signature disciplines" belong to certain classes, but you might want to refine the list based on what kind of warrior you think this is - i.e. Desert Wind and Shadow Hand are distinctly magical, should fatetamers be using that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Why? Iterative attacks aren't amazingly powerful.
    On a reasonably optimized charger or ubercharger, yes they are. Pounce is amazingly good if you know how to work it. Abuse potential is lowered without full BAB, though, so I wouldn't worry too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Still a difference.
    But by no means a significant one. Not a big deal at this point though ... mid-to-high level abuse potential was what I was worried about, and that's been brought down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    But nothings as easy as armour.
    This is true, but it doesn't change the fact that no armor proficiency is only significant at low levels. Besides which, you can easily dump Cha and grab leather/mithril chainshirt (or grab light armor proficiency and go for the chain shirt/mithril breastplate).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    How so? Decent Dex and Cha will give you bearable AC. Not great, but that's not reallu the point.
    Since Call of Destiny comes in at level 2, leather will be a necessity at first level. Even more incentive to dump charisma and go the armor route.

    Generally, your first level is going to be pretty weak. You're basically a worse swordsage until level 2, at which point access to Iron Heart and Devoted Spirit probably evens things out.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    The base attack progression isn't good enough, the class is only more powerful than crusader and warblade in so many ways, i think you should make the base progression something like +1.5 per level, with a base attack bonus of +30 at level 20.

    Also, maybe make him shoot charisma based lasers out of his eyes?

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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    This should fix most of the problems I can see. Average BAB lowers the potential for ubercharging abuse tremendously, capstone at 20 weakens dips. I disagree with the idea that certain "signature disciplines" belong to certain classes, but you might want to refine the list based on what kind of warrior you think this is - i.e. Desert Wind and Shadow Hand are distinctly magical, should fatetamers be using that?
    Glad to hear it.
    Yes, they definitely should have access to the more magical disciplines. I'm fond of the idea of charisma as a stat, at high levels, bending reality to make way for the will of the user.
    ...I think WotC cut Charisma a bad deal. I'm here to rectify that.
    ...that's a cool line, I should sig it.

    On a reasonably optimized charger or ubercharger, yes they are. Pounce is amazingly good if you know how to work it. Abuse potential is lowered without full BAB, though, so I wouldn't worry too much.

    But by no means a significant one. Not a big deal at this point though ... mid-to-high level abuse potential was what I was worried about, and that's been brought down.

    This is true, but it doesn't change the fact that no armor proficiency is only significant at low levels. Besides which, you can easily dump Cha and grab leather/mithril chainshirt (or grab light armor proficiency and go for the chain shirt/mithril breastplate).

    Since Call of Destiny comes in at level 2, leather will be a necessity at first level. Even more incentive to dump charisma and go the armor route.
    Kk.
    I put the Cha-to-AC at second level because that's where Swordsage has it (and to avoid dips). Should I change that?


    Generally, your first level is going to be pretty weak. You're basically a worse swordsage until level 2, at which point access to Iron Heart and Devoted Spirit probably evens things out.
    Hmm. (nods)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikka View Post
    The base attack progression isn't good enough, the class is only more powerful than crusader and warblade in so many ways, i think you should make the base progression something like +1.5 per level, with a base attack bonus of +30 at level 20.

    Also, maybe make him shoot charisma based lasers out of his eyes?
    Hmm, makes sense. I'll go do tha-wait. My 'brew sense is tingling...
    DETECT SARCASM!

    MY EYES! MY BEAUTIFUL EYES!
    Last edited by Lix Lorn; 2010-12-13 at 07:04 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Charisma's flaws are deeply ingrained. Frankly, WotC did a lot to make it less useless, back in earlier editions social interaction was its only use. 4E helped it a lot, but 4E is 4E. I've contemplated fusing it with constitution. Worst Stat + Essential Stat equals win!

    Swordsage gets wis-to-AC at second level because it has light armor proficiency and can therefore sort of afford it.
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    My answer is to make lots of highly cool cha based classes. Check my portfolio sig, they're almost all cha.
    Personally, I think will saves should be cha, or possibly cha-or-wisdom. Like 4E, if I remember correctly...

    Hmm. But if I move Cha to AC to first level, Sorcerers will just dip it and laugh. :|
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    As opposed to dipping monk, grabbing a feat and laughing? Or any of those other million classes sorcerers can dip and laugh because charisma synergy is amazing?
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
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    Default Re: [3.5 ToB class] Fatetamer, for all your Charismatic Initiating Needs

    Touche. I'll move it to first. xD
    Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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