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    Default Revised Feats Revisited (Fighter Feats Edition)

    About a year back or so on the Brilliant Gameologists forums I went through about 100+ feats from the PHB, PHB2, and the complete series and redesigned them. I wanted to make them a) more interesting, b) more powerful for warrior-types, a c) more fun. It's an okay effort, although I'm not 100% happy with the results I got with many of the feats. I suppose it's time I tried again.

    This time my initial goal is to add Fighter-Only benefits to feats that are on the Fighter's list of bonus feats. The goal is to hopefully, with probably some minor tweaking, make the normal "All-I-Get-Is-Feats" Fighter actually playable. After I've done that, who knows?

    Any feats below that are not labelled "As SRD" have been altered from the printed feats.

    Let's begin!

    Change Log
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    --Made several minor edits to Improved Critical
    --Changed to a [Fighter] feat system with explicit rules included for the [Fighter] subtype.
    --Changed back to the original idea.
    --Made several minor edits to many feats, including Improved Trip, Mounted Combat, Two-Weapon Fighting, etc...
    --Altered Weapon Focus, Removed Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization. Added the Original Feats section.
    --Added a level 20 Core Fighter sword-and-board build. It's awesome.
    --Added new versions of Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization.



    Player's Handbook 1
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    Blind-Fight
    Benefit: Once per attack when you miss a target because of concealment you may reroll the miss chance. Further, against an invisible attacker you do not lose your Dexterity bonus to AC, nor does the attacker gain any special bonuses. Finally, you suffer no reduction to your speed while you are unable to see.
    Special: If you are a Fighter or Monk of at least 2nd level you are immune to the Blinded condition and gain Blindsense out to a number of feat equal to 10ft + 10ft per point of Wisdom bonus you possess (minimum 10ft). Further add Listen to your list of class skills if it wasn't already there.

    Combat Expertise
    Prerequisites: Int 13, Base Attack +1
    Benefit: As SRD, except that you can take a penalty as big as your base attack bonus (no -5 limit), but also you double the dodge bonus granted by this feat if you wield a heavy shield OR a finesseable weapon (you get no special benefit for wielding both).
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore the prerequisites of this feat. Furthermore, if you are a Fighter of at least 2nd level, whenever an enemy misses you with a melee attack that enemy provokes an attack of opportunity from you.

    Improved Disarm
    Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore the prerequisites of this feat. Furthermore, if you are a Fighter of at least 2nd level, anytime you hit an enemy with an attack you may declare the attack to be a disarming strike. If you do, the enemy makes an attack roll opposing your attack roll that just hit. If the enemy's attack roll is lower than yours it is disarmed.

    Improved Feint
    Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore the prerequisites of this feat. Furthermore, add the Bluff skill to your class skills. Finally, you may make a Bluff check to feint in combat as a swift action, and when you succeed your next attack deals additional damage as per the Sneak Attack class feature of a Rogue of 1/2 your level, rounded up.

    Improved Trip
    Prerequisites Int 13, Combat Expertise
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore the prerequisites of this feat. Furthermore, add the Balance skill to your class skills. Finally, if you are a Fighter of at least 4th level, whenever you successfully Trip a foe that foe loses its next move action.

    Whirlwind Attack
    Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, Base Attack +6
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 4th level you may ignore the prerequisites of this feat.

    Combat Reflexes
    UNCHANGED

    Dodge
    Benefit: You gain a +1 dodge bonus to AC. Further, as a move action, you may designate a single foe within line of sight. If you do, until the beginning of your next turn you gain an additional +1 dodge bonus to AC against that foe.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level add the Tumble skill to your list of class skills. You also gain a +1 dodge bonus to your Reflex saves, and an additional +1 dodge bonus to your Reflex saves against a foe you designate. Finally, instead of spending a move action to designate a foe you may spend a swift action if you choose.

    Mobility
    Prerequisites: Dodge
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore this feat's prerequisites. Furthermore, if you are a Fighter of at least 2nd level, you may make an additional 5ft step during your turns, but also anytime an enemy misses you with an attack.

    Spring Attack
    Prerequisites: Dodge, Mobility
    Benefit: As SRD, except this includes Ride-By Attack and Shot on the Run.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore this feat's prerequisites. Furthermore, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from any creatures while you make a spring attack, and you may use this feat while wearing heavy armor.

    Exotic Weapon Proficiency
    UNCHANGED

    Improved Critical
    Prerequisites: Base Attack +8
    Benefit: As long as you wield a weapon you are proficient with its threat range is doubled. This does not stack with Keen or other such effects.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 10th level, whenever you confirm a critical hit the struck creature must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your Strength modifier) or be Staggered for 5 rounds.

    Improved Initiative
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level anytime initiative is rolled and you roll highest you gain an extra move action on your first turn.

    Improved Shield Bash
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level, whenever you hit an enemy with a Shield Bash attack you may push that foe up to 5ft per point of Strength bonus you possess. This is not a Bull Rush.

    Improved Unarmed Strike
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you also benefit as if from the Superior Unarmed Strike feat.

    Deflect Arrows
    Prerequisites: Dex 13
    Benefit: Whenever you are targeted by a ranged weapon attack, if you have a free hand, the attack provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If you choose to take this attack of opportunity, instead of making an attack you divert the projectile entirely so that you take no damage from the attack. You must choose whether to take the attack of opportunity before knowing the result of the attacker's roll.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 6th level you need not have a free hand and may even deflect unusual weapons and spells with this feat.

    Improved Grapple
    (I'm choosing to ignore this for now. Grappling is a whole 'nother monster with problems of its own.)

    Snatch Arrows
    (I'm choosing to ignore this feat entirely. Ask your DM if you can catch stuff with the Deflect Arrows feat, because that's not worth spending a feat on.)

    Stunning Blow
    Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike or Weapon Focus, Str 15, Base Attack +6
    Benefit: A number of times per day equal to 1/2 your character level you may declare an attack to be a stunning blow before you roll the attack (unarmed attacks only if you possess the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, otherwise the attack must be made with the weapon you chose with the Weapon Focus feat). If the stunning blow hits the struck foe must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your Strength modifier) or be Stunned for 1 round.
    Special: If you're a Monk or a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore the prerequisites of this feat and may declare a stunning blow a number of times per day equal to the total of your Monk and/or Fighter levels + 1/2 your other class levels. Monks may substitute their Wisdom modifier for their Strength modifier for the attack roll and save DC of a stunning blow. Fighters may declare stunning blows with any weapon attacks.

    Mounted Combat
    Prerequisites: Ride 2 ranks
    Benefit: The penalty you take when attacking while mounted is halved: -2 instead of -4 if your mount is taking a double move, and -4 instead of -8 if your mount is running.
    Special: If you're a Fighter, Paladin, Ranger of at least 2nd level you take no penalties to attack rolls while mounted. Further, once per round when your mount hits with an attack you may make an immediate attack against the struck foe as a free action.

    Mounted Champion
    Prerequisites: Ride 4 ranks, Mounted Combat
    Benefit: As the SRD version of Mounted Combat.
    Special: If you are a Fighter, Paladin, or Ranger of at least 4th level you may use this feat's benefit any number of times per round. Further, once per round you may roll a special Ride check and use the result in place of your AC against one attack, or in place of any one saving throw that you or you mount would make (but not both).

    Spirited Charge
    Prerequisites: Mobility
    Benefit: When you use the charge action you may move through allies' squares. Additionally, if you're mounted you deal double damage at the end of a charge when using a melee weapon.
    Special: If you're a Fighter of at least 4th level you may make up to one 90 degree turn during a charge and if your charge attack hits you gain a +4 morale bonus to AC and a +2 morale bonus to saves until your next turn.

    Point-Blank Shot
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 2nd level you do not provoke attacks of opportunity for making ranged attacks while threatened.

    Far Shot
    Prerequisites: None
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level add Spot to your list of class skills. If you are a Fighter of at least 4th level whenever you hit a foe with a ranged weapon during your turn you threaten that foe for the purposes of making attacks of opportunity. That foe never provokes an attack of opportunity for leaving one of your threatened squares unless it would also move beyond your weapon's range increment.

    Precise Shot
    Prerequisites: None
    Benefit: As SRD, but in addition, when you shoot or throw ranged weapons at a grappling opponent, you automatically strike at the opponent you have chosen.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level ignore partial cover and concealment of your targets, and reduce any other miss chance they may have by 20%.

    Rapid Shot
    Prerequisites: Dex 15
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 4th level you may make a full attack with a ranged weapon as a standard action by accepting a -2 penalty to your attack rolls for 1 round.

    Power Attack
    This is no longer a feat, it is a basic combat option. Anyone can always do it.

    Cleave
    Prerequisites: Str 13
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore this feat's prerequisites. If you are a Fighter of at least 4th level you may take a 5ft step before the attack and there is no limit to the number of times you may use this feat each round.

    Improved Bull Rush
    Prerequisites: Str 13
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore this feat's prerequisites. If you are a Fighter or Barbarian of at least 2nd level, whenever you successfully bull rush a foe into a solid surface both the creature and the surface are dealt 2d6 + twice your Strength bonus bludgeoning damage. If you are a Fighter or Barbarian of at least 6th level the bludgeoning damage increases to 4d6 + triple your Strength bonus.

    Improved Overrun
    Prerequisites: Str 13
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore this feat's prerequisites, and if you are a Fighter or Barbarian of at least 4th level you may attempt to move through opponent's squares during any movement you take during your turn with a successful overrun attempt against those opponents. Further, anytime you or your mount knock a foe prone because of an overrun attempt, that foe provokes an attack of opportunity to whichever of you succeeded on the overrun.

    Improved Sunder
    Prerequisites: Str 13
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore this feat's prerequisites. If you are a Fighter or Barbarian of at least 1st level you ignore the hardness of objects. If you are a Fighter or Barbarian of at least 4th level you ignore damage reduction.

    Quick Draw
    (Let's pretend this feat doesn't exist and that everyone could always throw weapons at their full rate of attacks, k?)

    Crossbow Focus
    Prerequisites: Crossbow proficiency, Base Attack +1
    Benefit: As Rapid Reload, but you also gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with crossbow weapons. This bonus does not stack with the bonus gained from the Weapon Focus feat.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may reload a Heavy Crossbow as a free action and do not provoke attacks of opportunity for reloading any crossbow weapons.

    Two-Weapon Fighting
    Prerequisites: Dex 15
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore this feat's prerequisites. If you're a Fighter of at least 2nd level, as a standard action you may make an attack with both your main-hand weapon and your off-hand weapon.

    Two-Weapon Defense
    Prerequisites: Two-Weapon Fighting
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 2nd level, you also gain a Shield bonus to AC equal +2 if your off-hand weapon is light, +1 if your off-hand weapon is one-handed, and +0 if your off-hand weapon is oversized. Furthermore, when you Fight Defensively or use the Combat Expertise feat the penalty you take to attack rolls doesn't apply to attacks of opportunity.

    Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
    Prerequisites: Dex 17, Two-Weapon Fighting, Base Attack +6
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 6th level you may ignore the ability score requirement of this feat. Further, when making an attack of opportunity or at the end of a charge action, you may make an attack with both your main-hand and off-hand weapons.

    Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
    Prerequisites: Dex 19, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Base Attack +11
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 12th level you may ignore the ability score requirement of this feat. Further, whenever you hit a foe with both your main-hand and off-hand weapons in the same turn that foe is dealt 8d6 additional damage and must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your Strength modifier) or be Nauseated with pain for 1 round.

    Weapon Finesse
    This is no longer a feat. Any character can elect to use their Dexterity modifier in place of their Strength modifier to determine their attack bonus with any finesseable weapon. Furthermore, a Shield's armor check penalty never applies to attack rolls made in such a way.

    Weapon Focus
    Prerequisites: Base Attack +1
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 2nd level you gain a special benefit based on which weapon group the weapon you designated belongs to. These benefits are outlined below:
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    Axes - Once per encounter when you damage an enemy with an Axe attack you may declare it to be a deep impact. If you do, at the end of the struck creature's next turn it loses a number of hit points equal to the damage your attack dealt.

    Bows - Once per encounter when you damage an enemy with a Bow attack you may roll a Spot check and substitute the result for your normal damage roll.

    Claws - You may substitute Climb checks for grapple checks as long as you are not attempting to escape a grapple, and once per encounter whenever you damage an enemy with a Claw attack, you may latch onto the enemy as the Attach quality. While Attached, as long as the enemy is at least one size category larger than you, you may use the Climb skill to move across the enemy as if it were a wall or incline. You gain partial cover against the enemy, or total cover if the enemy is two or more size categories larger than you.

    Swords - Once per encounter you may attack two adjacent enemies with a single Sword attack. Make one attack roll and compare it to the AC of both enemies. The enemies must be adjacent to you and to each other.

    Maces/Clubs - Once per encounter when you damage an enemy with a Mace/Club attack the damaged enemy loses its next Move Action.

    Picks/Hammers - When you miss an enemy with a Pick/Hammer attack you deal damage to the enemy equal to your Constitution modifier. Once per encounter, when you damage an enemy with a Pick/Hammer attack you gain DR/-- until the start of your next turn equal to half the damage dealt.

    Polearms - You may strike adjacent enemies with the blunt end of your Polearm at no penalty to attack rolls dealing 1d4 bludgeoning damage for small characters, 1d6 for medium characters, and 1d8 for large characters. Once per encounter when you damage an enemy with a Polearm attack you may move up to half your speed. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal, but not from the damaged enemy.

    Spears/Lances - Once per encounter you may make an attack as an immediate action whenever an enemy enters one of your threatened squares. This attack deals double damage if the enemy is charging.


    Weapon Specialization
    Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, Base Attack +4
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 6th level you gain a special benefit based on which weapon group the weapon you designated belongs to. These benefits are outlined below:
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    Axes - Whenever you reduce a foe to 0 or fewer hit points with an Axe attack all allies within 30ft gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls and all enemies within 30ft must succeed on a Will save (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your Strength modifier) or be Shaken for 1 minute.

    Bows - Whenever a foe misses you with an attack you gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC. This bonus lasts until the start of your next turn and is cumulative for the round.

    Claws - While you wield a Claw weapon you may attack while grappled without suffering the -4 penalty for attacking in a grapple, and against a foe at least one size category larger than you you deal +4 damage. Furthermore, if you wield a Claw weapon in both of your hands you benefit as if from the Spider Climb spell.

    Swords - Adjacent allies (yourself included) regain 2 hit points each time you hit with a Sword attack. Further, while you wield a Sword, foes' 5ft steps provoke attacks of opportunity against you.

    Maces/Clubs - You have a +5 bonus to confirm critical hits with Maces/Clubs, and while you wield a Mace/Club you ignore the critical hit immunity of creatures such as Undead or Constructs. Furthermore, when a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on you, there is a 50% chance that the damage is instead rolled normally.

    Picks/Hammers - Your attacks with Picks/Hammers deal an extra 2d6 sneak attack damage and deal damage to foes with Regeneration normally. If you damage a foe with a Pick/Hammer and deal sneak attack damage, that foe loses any Fast Healing it has for 1 round.

    Polearms - Whenever a foe misses you with an attack of opportunity, if you're wielding a Polearm, that foe provokes an attack of opportunity from you. You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls when making attacks of opportunity.

    Spears/Lances - You never provoke attacks of opportunity for charging, and whenever you damage a foe with Spear/Lance charge attack you gain temporary hit points equal to the damage dealt which last 1 minute.


    Greater Weapon Focus
    Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, Base Attack +8
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 8th level you gain a special benefit based on which weapon group the weapon you designated belongs to. These benefits are outlined below:
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    Axes - Once per encounter when you damage a foe with an Axe attack you may force the damaged foe to succeed on a Will save (DC 10+1/2 your character level+ your Strength modifier) or be Shaken for 1 minute. Foes that succeed on this saving throw are still Shaken for 1 round.

    Bows - Once per encounter when making a Bow attack you ignore any concealment the target has, any magical bonuses to AC the target has, invisibility of the target, any ongoing illusion effect within your line of sight, and resolve the attack as a touch attack.

    Claws - Once per encounter you may make a full attack at the end of a charge with a Claw weapon. If at least one of these attacks hit you may choose to grapple the opponent and gain a +10 bonus on grapple checks in the next round. If at least two of these attacks hit you may choose to pin the opponent.

    Swords - Once per encounter when you damage a foe with a Sword attack you may regain hit points equal to your Fighter level and gain a +5 bonus to saving throws and AC for 2 rounds.

    Maces/Clubs - Once per encounter when you damage a foe with a Mace/Club attack you may force the damaged foe to succeed on a Fort save (DC 10+1/2 your character level+ your Strength modifier) or be Dazed for 1d4+1 rounds.

    Picks/Hammers - Once per encounter when you damage a foe with a Pick/Hammer attack that foe is also dealt 4 Constitution and 4 Strength damage. If the foe was flat-footed it is also Immobilized for 1 round.

    Polearms - Once per encounter when you damage a foe with a Polearm attack that foe is knocked prone, dealt 2d4 Dexterity damage, and has it's speed reduced by 1/2 until it heals at least 1 hit point, but for a minimum of 5 rounds.

    Spears/Lances - Once per encounter when you charge a foe with a Spear/Lance all allies within 30ft of you may also make a charge attack as a free action against any foe they are able to reach. These charge attacks, including yours, deal +15 damage and do not provoke attacks of opportunity.


    Greater Weapon Specialization
    Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Base Attack +12
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 12th level you may use each of the special benefits you gained from your Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus feats twice each encounter. Further, if you're a Fighter of at least 14th level you gain a special benefit based on which weapon group the weapon you designated belongs to. These benefits are outlined below:
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    Axes - Foes that end their turns within your threatened area are Shaken for 1 round.

    Bows - You gain Blindsense out to your Bow's range increment, a +10 bonus on Listen and Spot checks, and automatically succeed on Will disbelief checks against Illusions.

    Claws - While wielding a Claw you gain a Burrow speed equal to 1/2 your land speed and deal extra damage to foes you attack after burrowing on your turn equal to +5 damage per two Fighter levels.

    Swords - You gain an extra 5ft of reach with Swords, the number of hit points allies regain when you hit with a Sword attack increases to 1/2 your Fighter level, and whenever you drop a foe with a Sword attack all allies within 10ft may make an immediate attack or move up to their speed as a free action.

    Maces/Clubs - You gain DR/-- equal to 1/2 your Fighter level and are immune to critical hits and sneak attacks. Further, you are immune to ability damage and drain, death effects, negative levels, as well as the Dazed, Paralyzed, Staggered, and Stunned conditions.

    Picks/Hammers - Your sneak attack damage with Picks/Hammers is increased to 6d6. Further, whenever you deal sneak attack damage to a foe with a Pick/Hammer that foe gains 1 negative level.

    Polearms - Whenever damage a foe with a Polearm during an attack of opportunity that foe is knocked prone. Further, whenever a foe misses you or whenever you hit with a Polearm attack you may take a 5ft step as a free action.

    Spears/Lances - Whenever you charge you ignore difficult terrain, you may walk across the surfaces of liquid (such as water or even lava), you may move through the air as if you had a Fly speed equal to your land speed with perfect maneuverability, and you may move through a number of occupied squares equal to 1/2 your Fighter level. When you charge through occupied squares in this way your charge attack is made against all creatures whose squares you moved through, though they may make a Reflex save (DC 10+1/2 your Fighter level+ your Strength modifier) to take only half damage.



    Player's Handbook 2
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    Acrobatic Strike
    Prerequisites: Tumble 9 ranks
    Benefit: As printed.
    Special: If you're a Fighter of at least 6th level and after avoiding an enemy's AoO using Tumble you hit that enemy with an attack before the end of your turn that enemy must succeed on a Will save (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your Dexterity modifier) or be Confused for 1 round.

    Armor Specialization
    Prerequisites: Proficiency with the chosen armor, Base Attack +2
    Benefit: Choose a type of armor, such as Studded Leather, Banded Mail, or Full Plate. While wearing masterwork armor of the chosen type you gain Damage Reduction 2/--.
    Special: You may take this feat multiple times, but it's effects do not necessarily stack. You may not gain more DR in this way than the worn armor's total armor bonus to your AC. Enhancement bonuses to the armor count toward allowing more DR.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 8th level you gain temporary hit points at the beginning of each encounter equal to three times your armor bonus to AC.

    Brutal Strike
    Prerequisites: Str 15, Base Attack +6
    Benefit: Whenever you use the Power Attack option and take a penalty to your attack roll of at least -5, if your attack hits and deals damage the struck foe must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your Strength modifier) or be Sickened for 1 round.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 6th level, you need only take a penalty of at least -2 to trigger this feat's benefit, and if you hit a foe twice in the same round, instead of making a second save it is automatically Nauseated for 1 round instead of Sickened.

    Combat Acrobat
    Prerequisites: Balance 9 ranks, Tumble 9 ranks
    Benefit: When knocked prone you may make an immediate DC 20 Tumble check as a free action to stand back up. As a DC 15 Balance check you may move through difficult terrain at full speed, though you still suffer any adverse effects from such terrain.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore this feat's prerequisites. Further add the Balance and Tumble skills to your class skill list.

    Combat Cloak Expert [Tactical]
    Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Dodge, Dex 15, Int 13, Base Attack +4
    Benefit: While you wear any cloak you gain a +1 deflection bonus to AC. Furthermore, against a target you designate with your Dodge feat you gain partial concealment and that foe is always considered flat-footed against the first attack you make each round.
    Special: If you're a Fighter of at least 6th level, once per encounter, you may use the [i]Cloaked Strike] maneuver. If you are a Fighter of at least 10th level, once per encounter, you may use the Greater Cloaked Strike maneuver. If you are a Fighter of at least 14th level you benefit from the Cloak and Dagger stance.

    Cloaked Strike - If you hit the target of your Dodge feat with an attack and wear a cloak you gain partial concealment against all foes until you miss with an attack.

    Greater Cloaked Strike - If you hit a foe while you benefit from concealment and while wearing a cloak you become invisible as the spell.

    Cloak and Dagger - Foes you hit while you wear a cloak and have concealment or are invisible must succeed on a Will save (DC 10+1/2 your character level+your Dexterity modifier) or be Confused for 1 round.

    Combat Focus [Form]
    Prerequisites: Wis 13
    Benefit: As printed.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level, when you gain your Combat Focus you may choose AC, Fortitude, Reflex, or Will. Instead of gaining the normal +2 (or +4) bonus to Will saves while you are focused you gain the bonus to the value of your choice.

    Combat Awareness [Form]
    Prerequisites: Blind-Fight, Combat Focus, Wis 15, Base Attack +4
    Benefit: As printed.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 4th level, while maintaining your combat focus you learn the hitpoint total of any creature you can see as well as any conditions the creature may be suffering from, such as Blinded, Poisoned, or Confused. Additionally, if you have three or more Form feats you gain Blindsight equal to the Blind-Sense you gained from the Blind-Fight feat.

    Combat Defense [Form]
    Prerequisites: Combat Focus, Dodge, Wis 13, Base Attack +2
    Benefit: As printed.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 2nd level, instead of gaining the additional +1 dodge bonus against the target of your Dodge feat, while maintaining your combat focus you gain a dodge bonus to AC against a target you designate with your Dodge feat equal to the number of Form feats you possess. Add that number as a competence bonus to resist any Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Overrun, Trip, or Sunder attempts made against you. Against foes you have not designated as the target of your Dodge feat you add only half this number as a dodge bonus to your AC.

    Combat Strike [Form]
    Prerequisites: Combat Focus, any two other Form feats, Base Attack +8
    Benefit: By choosing to end your combat focus as a swift action you gain a bonus to attack rolls equal to the number of Form feats you possess and a bonus to damage rolls equal to your base attack bonus. These bonuses last until your next turn.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 8th level, when you end your focus in this way the bonuses you gain last until the end of the encounter.

    Combat Vigor [Form]
    Prerequisites: Combat Focus, Con 15, Wis 15, Base Attack +6
    Benefit: As printed.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 6th level, while you maintain your combat focus you are immune to the Fatigued, Exhausted, Immobilized, and Paralyzed conditions. If you are a Fighter of at least 10th level you benefit from a Freedom of Movement effect as the spell.

    More to come...


    Complete Adventurer
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    Brutal Throw
    This is no longer a feat. Any character can elect to use their Strength modifier in place of their Dexterity modifier to determine their attack bonus with any thrown weapon

    Combat Intuition
    Prerequisites: Sense Motive 9 ranks, Survival 9 ranks
    Benefit: At the start of your turn you may make a Sense Motive check against any creature you threaten as a free action as if you were making a Knowledge check to identify a creature and its special powers or vulnerabilities and at the same DC as the appropriate Knowledge check. Additionally, once per round whenever you are struck by a confirmed critical hit you may make a Survival check (DC 15 + the CR of the creature that confirmed the critical) to negate the critical hit and take only the normal damage.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore this feat's prerequisites. Further add the Sense Motive and Survival skills to your class skill list.

    More to come...


    Original Feats
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    Mental Focus
    Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, Concentration 2 ranks, Base Attack +2, Power Point Reserve
    Benefit: You may expend your Psionic Focus to reroll an attack roll with the weapon designated by your Weapon Focus feat.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 1st level you may ignore this feat's prerequisites, you add Concentration to your list of class skills and you gain a single Power Point. Further, when you use this feat's benefit you may reroll any weapon attack. Finally, whenever you gain a Fighter bonus feat you may instead take a [Psionic] feat you qualify for.

    Mental Specialization
    Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, Mental Focus, Concentration 4 ranks, Base Attack +4
    Benefit: While you are Psionically Focused you gain a +4 bonus to damage rolls with the weapon designated by your Weapon Focus feat.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 4th level you do not need the Weapon Focus feat to take this feat; you also add the bonus to damage rolls with all weapons and gain a +1 bonus to all saving throws as long as you hold the selected weapon and are Psionically Focused.

    Greater Mental Focus
    Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, Mental Focus, Concentration 6 ranks, Base Attack +6
    Benefit: With the weapon designated by your Weapon Focus feat, whenever your attack roll beats an enemy's AC by 5 or more you may make a Concentration check as a free action to attempt to gain Psionic Focus.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 4th level you do not need to have the Weapon Focus feat to take this feat. If you are a Fighter of at least 6th level you may use this feat's benefit with any weapon. If you are a Fighter of at least 8th level you may expend your Psionic Focus to cause any foe you strike with any weapon to be Confused for 1 round.

    Greater Mental Specialization
    Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Mental Focus, Greater Mental Focus, Concentration 10 ranks, Base Attack +10
    Benefit: While you are Psionically Focused you gain a +10 bonus to damage rolls with the weapon designated by your Weapon Focus feat and are immune to Compulsion effects as long as you hold that weapon.
    Special: If you are a Fighter of at least 6th level you do not need to have the Weapon Focus or Greater Weapon Focus feats to take this feat. If you are a Fighter of at least 12th level, while you are Psionically Focused you benefit as if from the Weapon Supremacy feat for all weapons you hold and are immune to all Mind-Afflicting effects as long as you hold a weapon.


    DISCLAIMER: Also, I'm aware that this series of feats makes the level 1 Fighter dip even more attractive than ever before. I'm planning on going through the other books like I did last time and with the slew of "improved" feats there should be plenty of higher level Fighter-only benefits. I'll probably also go through the stuff below and make some of the Fighter-only benefits require more Fighter levels.

    LINK: A "Core-Only" Fighter 20 build using very traditional sword and board feats from the list of revised PHB1 feats.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2010-12-22 at 02:53 AM.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    Reserved #1.

    If using these feats in your campaign, consider adding the following class features to Fighters in your campaign:

    Add Appraise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Local), and Martial Lore to the Fighter's list of class skills. Increase their skills per level to 4+Int.

    Fighter 1 - Gain Martial Aptitude (Ex): A Fighter has an initiator level equal to his Fighter class levels and may take the Martial Study feat any number of times rather than only three. Further, like a Warblade, the Fighter may adjust his weapon training with 1 hour of practice so that he may change the designated weapon of any feats he has that apply to only a single weapon.

    Fighter 3 - Gain... something. Not sure what yet.

    Fighter 5 - Gain Versatile Style 1/day (Ex): Starting at 5th level, once per day as a free action, the Fighter may "lose" one of his Bonus Feats and gain any other Fighter Bonus Feat he qualifies for. This effect lasts up to 24 hours, but the Fighter may dismiss it at anytime with another free action. When the effect expires the feat he "lost" is regained, and he loses the other feat entirely. A Fighter gains additional uses of this ability at 9th, 13th, and 17th levels.

    Class Table
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    Fighter
    {table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

    1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Bonus Feat, Martial Aptitude

    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Bonus Feat

    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Something...

    4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Bonus Feat

    5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Versatile Style 1/day

    6th|+6/+1|+5|+2|+2|Bonus Feat

    7th|+7/+2|+5|+2|+2|

    8th|+8/+3|+6|+2|+2|Bonus Feat

    9th|+9/+4|+6|+3|+3|Versatile Style 2/day

    10th|+10/+5|+7|+3|+3|Bonus Feat

    11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+3|+3|

    12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|+4|Bonus Feat

    13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+4|+4|Versatile Style 3/day

    14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+4|+4|Bonus Feat

    15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+5|+5|

    16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+5|Bonus Feat

    17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+5|Versatile Style 4/day

    18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+6|Bonus Feat

    19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+6|

    20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+6|Bonus Feat

    [/table]
    Alignment: Any
    Hit Die: 1d10

    Class Skills:
    Appraise (Int), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Martial Lore (Int), Ride (Dex),and Swim (Str).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2010-12-14 at 03:52 PM.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    Reserved Post #2.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    And this, Reserved Post #3, will surely be the last I'll need.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    I'm actually a big fan of your original revisions, so I'm happy to see you redoing them here in the Playground. The model for fighters getting more from these feats is pretty cool, but it will definitely make the one-level-fighter-dip more attractive. Of course, there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

    If I don't mention something, assume I have no issues with it. If I bold something, it's because it's insane.

    Blindfight says you reroll your attack ... do you mean you reroll the miss chance? Plus, it's wisdom-centric, why no monk access to its extra power (since you do that for Stunning Fist)?

    Improved Feint needs to specify class level, instead of just saying level. It might be a bit much, actually ... I get that fighters should be better, but rogues will have a hard time keeping up in terms of combat value outside of UMD.

    Mobility is unclear. 1) Do you get to make one additional five foot step that can be used on your turn, or when an opponent misses you? 2) Do you get one additional five foot step on your turn, and unlimited five foot steps for when opponents miss you? 3) [Insert Correct Answer]. I also feel like going on an opponent's turn should consume either attacks of opportunity or your immediate action. And how does this interact with revised combat expertise? Do you get to counterattack and step away? Or just one?

    Improved Critical is now objectively better for high-mulitplier weapons than it is for high threat weapons, something which I find problematic. Also, death effects at 8th level? What is this I don't even

    Improved Shield Bash's extra benefit should be optional - as written you can't make a shield bash without interrupting your attack routine. Also, since "push" is not a defined term in 3.5, you need to make it clear what direction you're moving them in (I assume "away" is the correct answer).

    Improved Unarmed Strike suffers from the same problem I've always had with it - it only benefits unarmed fighters. YMMV, but I feel like strengthening the hands and muscular coordination while learning to hit armed opponents without getting cut up would have more general benefits. (Saga had a nice approach, where the "martial arts" feats gave general defense bonuses in addition to unarmed damage.)

    Deflect Arrows should have some limits on its fighter benefit. As written a first level fighter can sit there knocking away Disintegrate and thrown cows as long as he has extra AoOs.

    Stunning Blow with any weapon seems like a bit much. I'm not sure exactly how you stun someone with a spear thrust, for instance, other than them being stunned because they are dead. Also, per day uses? No other feat on this list has those - fewer per encounter uses would be a good alternative.

    Mounted Combat's modification shouldn't be exclusive to fighters. Paladins and Rangers, at least, should be able to defend and ride their mounts with the same level of supreme skill.

    Mounted Assault is ... what? I'm pretty sure you only take penalties to ranged attacks while mounted. Also, the second part of the fighter extra here is ridiculous. All you need is a mount with tons of attacks (hello polymorph/wild shape) and your full attack will go completely nuts. And your mounts is invulnerable now, thanks to Mounted Combat.

    If Power Attack is a basic combat option, why isn't the original Combat Expertise? I'm aware Fighting Defensively exists, but Combat Expertise was basically just Fighting Defensively +1. If you're including one, why not the other?

    Improved Bull Rush could afford to deal a little damage even without hitting a surface. Getting slammed into by a hundred plus pounds of muscle is going to hurt (especially if said muscle is wearing full plate or hits with its shoulder).

    Improved Sunder lets you ignore damage reduction with three fighter levels? As in, all damage reduction, ever? lolwut.

    Two-Weapon Fighting looks fine, but I have a simulationist objection that wouldn't be that difficult to balance for. As written, it's pretty much the opposite of how two-blade combat works. Fighting with two large weapons produces an excellent offense and a weak defense. Fighting with a long weapon and a short weapon is defensively preferable.

    Two-Weapon Defense has no extra benefit for a fighter who uses a light off-hand weapon.

    Weapon Focus ... uh, I feel like I should be able to specialize in a particular weapon without becoming a psychic. Just saying.

    All in all, some of it looks better than other parts. In general, I feel like many of the extra benefits should be extended to non-fighters. Feats shouldn't suck for anyone, and they should be extra super-cool for fighters.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    I'm actually a big fan of your original revisions, so I'm happy to see you redoing them here in the Playground. The model for fighters getting more from these feats is pretty cool, but it will definitely make the one-level-fighter-dip more attractive. Of course, there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

    If I don't mention something, assume I have no issues with it. If I bold something, it's because it's insane.
    lol, sure. It was like 4am when I wrote these because I couldn't sleep.

    Blindfight says you reroll your attack ... do you mean you reroll the miss chance? Plus, it's wisdom-centric, why no monk access to its extra power (since you do that for Stunning Fist)?
    Reroll miss chance would make more sense wouldn't it?

    Improved Feint needs to specify class level, instead of just saying level. It might be a bit much, actually ... I get that fighters should be better, but rogues will have a hard time keeping up in terms of combat value outside of UMD.
    Actually, I intended to simply say level, and not Fighter level. Also, remember, you can only get 1 attack with half-level sneak attack per round, while a Rogue gets full-level sneak attack on all of their attacks, often even attacks of opportunity. AND you have to spend a swift action AND succeed on a feint attempt. I'm pretty sure it's actually still weak, but at least it's fun.

    Mobility is unclear. 1) Do you get to make one additional five foot step that can be used on your turn, or when an opponent misses you? 2) Do you get one additional five foot step on your turn, and unlimited five foot steps for when opponents miss you? 3) [Insert Correct Answer].
    Number 2 is correct. How might I clarify this?

    And how does this interact with revised combat expertise? Do you get to counterattack and step away? Or just one?
    You may do both. There's nothing to stop you unless you choose to step away before you are able to attack. Of course you don't have to step away at all, or you could be wielding a reach weapon, etc, etc.

    Improved Critical is now objectively better for high-mulitplier weapons than it is for high threat weapons, something which I find problematic.
    Meh. That's an interesting point. I'm trying to avoid the "I crit on a roll of 7" issue, but maybe I should just put it back to normal.

    Also, death effects at 8th level? What is this I don't even
    Really? You think that's nuts? Phantasmal Killer has always existed and that's a death effect at 7th level. This death effect requires you to hit with an attack, requires you to actually threaten a critical, requires you to confirm that threat, and then requires the enemy to fail a Fort save. Sounds even more situational than Phantasmal Killer and you need to spend a feat to get it.

    Improved Shield Bash's extra benefit should be optional - as written you can't make a shield bash without interrupting your attack routine.
    It is optional. It says "up to" which means as little as 0ft if you want it to be.

    Also, since "push" is not a defined term in 3.5, you need to make it clear what direction you're moving them in (I assume "away" is the correct answer).
    You're right, it isn't defined, so what should I use? I suppose I could just use "move; this movement doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity."

    Deflect Arrows should have some limits on its fighter benefit. As written a first level fighter can sit there knocking away Disintegrate and thrown cows as long as he has extra AoOs.
    EEehhh, yeah, you're probably right, but a big part of me really wants the Fighter to be able to do that. I mean, he probably doesn't have more than three AoOs a turn, and he's giving up his ability to actually make them in order to defend himself. Any suggestions on what limitations to apply?

    Mounted Combat's modification shouldn't be exclusive to fighters. Paladins and Rangers, at least, should be able to defend and ride their mounts with the same level of supreme skill.
    I could see that. I'll probably add that in. Oh, and I'll probably also add the Monk benefit to Blind-Fight.

    Mounted Assault is ... what? I'm pretty sure you only take penalties to ranged attacks while mounted. Also, the second part of the fighter extra here is ridiculous. All you need is a mount with tons of attacks (hello polymorph/wild shape) and your full attack will go completely nuts. And your mounts is invulnerable now, thanks to Mounted Combat.
    Yeeeeah. 4am. I'll go ahead and fix this.

    If Power Attack is a basic combat option, why isn't the original Combat Expertise? I'm aware Fighting Defensively exists, but Combat Expertise was basically just Fighting Defensively +1. If you're including one, why not the other?
    Yeah, I thought of this myself, but I felt that Combat Expertise was slightly better as a feat, and that the feats that spring out of Combat Expertise end up being better than the feats that sprang out of Power Attack. Of course, I may be wrong.

    Improved Sunder lets you ignore damage reduction with three fighter levels? As in, all damage reduction, ever? lolwut.
    Meh. It may be a bit much, sure, but a 3rd level Warblade can do the same thing without spending a feat once every other round.

    Weapon Focus ... uh, I feel like I should be able to specialize in a particular weapon without becoming a psychic. Just saying.
    Yeah, I couldn't think of ANYTHING for this though, and then the psychic idea hit me and I ran with it. Mechanically speaking the benefits you gain totally work, but fluff-wise, I agree, it leaves something to be desired.

    EDIT: I added an alternative, less boring, Fighter-only benefit to Far Shot. What do you think?
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2010-12-13 at 02:13 PM.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    So...a 2nd Level Human Fighter that took Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Expertise, Deadly Defense, and Combat Reflexes could max his Point Buy on Dexterity (ignoring Int, only worry about a Str 10 for no penalty), use Combat Expertise for 2 to gain a +4 dodge bonus, deal an extra 1d6 damage with each successful melee attack, and can hurl 2 throwing axes each round with a Full Attack and draw 2 more for free, just to be ready for any Attacks of Opportunity that may come up. Correct?

    Am I the only one that sees this as a problem?
    Last edited by Adamantrue; 2010-12-13 at 03:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    Your assessment is correct, yes. Your build uses my revised feats to make a build that would be completely ineffectual in play into something that's halfway worth considering. Since it's such a unique type of build that's worth some merit.

    But, as far as you seeing that as a problem, well I surely hope you're the only one, because even a lowly Fighter Archer at 2nd level with standard, non-optimized feats plucked right out of the published PHB can outmaneuver, out-hit, and out-damage your build every single time. A Warblade with a Greatsword? Well, that just blows it out of the water.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2010-12-13 at 03:25 PM.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantrue View Post
    So...a 2nd Level Human Fighter that took Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Expertise, Deadly Defense, and Combat Reflexes could max his Point Buy on Dexterity (ignoring Int, only worry about a Str 10 for no penalty), use Combat Expertise for 2 to gain a +4 dodge bonus, deal an extra 1d6 damage with each successful melee attack, and can hurl 2 throwing axes each round with a Full Attack and draw 2 more for free, just to be ready for any Attacks of Opportunity that may come up. Correct?

    Am I the only one that sees this as a problem?
    I certainly don't.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    But, as far as you seeing that as a problem, well I surely hope you're the only one, because even a lowly Fighter Archer at 2nd level with standard, non-optimized feats plucked right out of the published PHB can outmaneuver, out-hit, and out-damage your build every single time. A Warblade with a Greatsword? Well, that just blows it out of the water.
    So, the argument is a pure ranged build can out-do what I suggest in ranged combat, and a pure melee build can out-perform what I suggested in melee.

    But that's a false argument. By the same logic, what I suggest can trounce the pure archer in melee, and by staying at range (and having enough throwing axes), the melee guy would be dead before he got close enough to land his sword.

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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantrue View Post
    So, the argument is a pure ranged build can out-do what I suggest in ranged combat, and a pure melee build can out-perform what I suggested in melee.

    But that's a false argument. By the same logic, what I suggest can trounce the pure archer in melee, and by staying at range (and having enough throwing axes), the melee guy would be dead before he got close enough to land his sword.
    It's not about who would win in a duel. It's about what the builds contribute to a party encounter after encounter. I'm not even going to drag this into a "Bwaha, my PHB Archer vs your Revised Feats Axeman vs my ToB Warblade" argument, because it's absolutely pointless.

    The Axe guy can have really nice AC even Touch AC, but has a really low attack roll, deals below average damage to enemies, but can pull out lots of attacks of opportunity. That's reasonably effective. You think it's overpowered though, and I can't understand why. Would you explain?

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    What do you want from me? A Core 2nd level Two-Weapon Fighter hybrid ranged/melee thrown weapon build doesn't exist. I can't show you that there's a viable character using published material that does that same thing you're build does only better, because those feats suck too bad on their own, and might be even worse together in the existing game environment. I said you did something worth merit - you took an unviable archetype, used my revised feats, and made it actually sort of legit. I'm not trying to be patronizing when I say that's cool. But to drag myself back to the duel argument, you really ought to re-examine your stance. The fight against the archer might be kind of close, but I expect the archer to win, and the Warblade will completely dominate. But like I said, that's absolutely pointless, because all I really care about is addressing what about your build you find to be overpowered.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2010-12-13 at 04:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    I agree. It would be pointless.

    However, all that is going on by Level 2 (which could be competitive with a Whirling Frenzy Greatsword...except it can always be on). Continue the progression. Say, 3rd is Dodge, 4th is Mobility, and 6th we get the combination of Double Hit & Elusive Target. Now I can have a particularly strong AC & better Reflex Saves, have a great AoO thing going on & can shut down Full Attacks, and...Elusive Target is awesome.

    Mind you, if this is all well and good for you, more power to you. I think it definitely changes the balance of the game (you can't ever really break it, just change it), but it would be way outside my comfort zones.
    Last edited by Adamantrue; 2010-12-13 at 04:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    Improved Critical could increase your multiplier in addition to your threat range.

    As to the death effect, [JOKING]equivalencies to wizard spells are always false.[/JOKING] That said, the first real issue is that the fighter will have a chance to invoke it every round against opponents who are vulnerable to critical hits, and he doesn't have to use action economy on it. You can pop off Phantasmal Killer a couple of times per day at level 8, but if it fails you wasted a round.

    Other things: Phantasmal Killer is a really suboptimal spell, I can think of a million better things to do with my 4th-level spell slots. So in terms of time and resources, it's wasteful - but the fighter pretty much just attacks all the time without stopping, and with a reasonably good threat-range he can use his death effect on every third or fourth attack. Better yet, with AoOs he can pop it off on an opponent's turn. And all of these attacks do damage, so even if he doesn't succeed on his auto-kill he's still being effective.

    Finally, PK requires a failed Will save, and a failed Fort save. Improved Critical does require a hit, yes, but the fighter's entire party role is that he can succeed at hitting things. And his effect only requires a failed Fort save, meaning a wider number of enemies likely to fail it. None of this would be unbalancing at a higher level, but at eighth it's really, really powerful.

    Also save-or-die in general steals narrative momentum from combat. But that's a personal gripe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantrue View Post
    So...a 2nd Level Human Fighter that took Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Expertise, Deadly Defense, and Combat Reflexes could max his Point Buy on Dexterity (ignoring Int, only worry about a Str 10 for no penalty), use Combat Expertise for 2 to gain a +4 dodge bonus, deal an extra 1d6 damage with each successful melee attack, and can hurl 2 throwing axes each round with a Full Attack and draw 2 more for free, just to be ready for any Attacks of Opportunity that may come up. Correct?

    Am I the only one that sees this as a problem?
    Clearly you have only ever studied at the Fighters Can't Have Nice Things school of game design. (Hint: That school sucks.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantrue View Post
    I agree. It would be pointless.

    However, all that is going on by Level 2 (which could be competitive with a Whirling Frenzy Greatsword...except it can always be on). Continue the progression. Say, 3rd is Dodge, 4th is Mobility, and 6th we get the combination of Double Hit & Elusive Target. Now I can have a particularly strong AC & better Reflex Saves, have a great AoO thing going on & can shut down Full Attacks, and...Elusive Target is awesome.

    Mind you, if this is all well and good for you, more power to you. I think it definitely changes the balance of the game (you can't ever really break it, just change it), but it would be way outside my comfort zones.
    Oh gosh oh gee oh my, a fighter might actually be effective at fighting.
    Last edited by gkathellar; 2010-12-13 at 05:21 PM. Reason: Sarcasm.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    Can I just chime in here and say that this is the greatest fighter fix I have ever seen? It's brilliant, it's elegant, and it works.

    My main request would be to consider separating the "Fighters get extra benefits" project from the "let's make these feats not suck" project, for increased modularity (I'm all about modularity or something). So a DM who didn't like your feat changes but who did like your fighter fix could just approve the one.

    Other than that, I'd also suggest bumping up some of the "If you're a 1st level fighter" stuff to a slightly higher level, to discourage dips. I'm a big fan of dips, but something like this, where you could dip once and keep getting the benefit with feats gained from levels in other classes (even bonus feats from other classes), seems a little overboard to me.

    Wait. What if you hand out benefits for just being a fighter, even if you're gaining the feat elsewhere, but ignore prerequisites if you take the feat as a fighter bonus feat?

    Does that make sense? I'm typing with gloves on, and for some reason that makes me talk funny. It certainly makes me less willing to backspace.

    Again, I love this idea, keep it up.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar
    Finally, PK requires a failed Will save, and a failed Fort save. Improved Critical does require a hit, yes, but the fighter's entire party role is that he can succeed at hitting things. And his effect only requires a failed Fort save, meaning a wider number of enemies likely to fail it. None of this would be unbalancing at a higher level, but at eighth it's really, really powerful.
    It requires three successful rolls on the Fighter's part and, if all of those are successful, a failed roll on the enemy's part. That's really suboptimal, but I suppose I can bump up the required Fighter level on it a bit because you do make some compelling points.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaTedinator
    Can I just chime in here and say that this is the greatest fighter fix I have ever seen? It's brilliant, it's elegant, and it works.
    Why, thank you very much.

    My main request would be to consider separating the "Fighters get extra benefits" project from the "let's make these feats not suck" project, for increased modularity (I'm all about modularity or something). So a DM who didn't like your feat changes but who did like your fighter fix could just approve the one.
    That's understandable, but it'd be really hard for me to do that I'd have to go against my all-or-nothing nature. Also, a lot of the time I was having a hard time coming up with anything relevant to write for the Fighter-only benefit of a feat without first making the feat itself actually usable.

    Other than that, I'd also suggest bumping up some of the "If you're a 1st level fighter" stuff to a slightly higher level, to discourage dips. I'm a big fan of dips, but something like this, where you could dip once and keep getting the benefit with feats gained from levels in other classes (even bonus feats from other classes), seems a little overboard to me.
    I did go through and bump up some of them already. I'm not sure what other ones I could bump up to a higher level without the ones that are 1st level right now being totally useless at 1st level. Any suggestions?

    Wait. What if you hand out benefits for just being a fighter, even if you're gaining the feat elsewhere, but ignore prerequisites if you take the feat as a fighter bonus feat?
    I was trying to think of a way to do this, and I kind of like where you're going with this. What do other people think?

    Again, I love this idea, keep it up.
    Thank you, thank you. *Bow*
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited (Fighter Feats Edition)

    Added several more feats and a little something to Reserved Post #1. Please evaluate and critique honestly.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2010-12-14 at 10:26 AM.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited (Fighter Feats Edition)

    Well you've taken on one hell of a project for yourself. I know cause I attempted it way back when, and ultimately abandoned it in favor of just buffing the Fighter itself.

    A few things:

    -Why keep two weapon fighting as 3 separate feats? As they are, it's way too heavy of a feat tax for a single fighting style. One of the first things I would have done is make it a single feat that scales.

    -This really does make a Fighter 1/2 dip way too strong. All rogues for example would love to dip one level into Fighter and pick up improved feint. Anything requiring less than Fighter 5 you should just roll into the feat itself.

    -Improved Crit's death effect is fine, but really change it back to doubling the threat range, or at most only making it a +1. You said you changed it to avoid the "I crit on a 7" thing, but since they made it so Keen and Improved Crit and other crit doubling multipliers don't stack, that's not much of an issue. This however exacerbates it, since you are adding a new modifier in that does stack. Where normally you could get at most 18-20 down to 15-20, now you can get it down to 16-20, then get a Keen Weapon to take that down to 11-20. Or get a big x4 crit weapon and have it at 18-20, 15-20 with Keen.

    Also, while the death effect is fine, the stagger is over the top. You can leave it in as an effect for things that are immune to death effects but still fail their save, but them taking a critical hit should be penalty enough for succeeding on their save.

    -Deflect Arrows allowing spell deflection at will from 6th level? Seems pretty over the top. I had a similar ability as a 19th level ability and was still afraid it was strong.

    -Does Crossbow Focus stack with weapon focus, or the PHB2 feat that adds dexterity to crossbow damage? Also, unless there's a feat I missed supporting other weapons similarly, this makes crossbows the weapon of choice for any ranged attacker. Just something you ought to keep in mind.

    -You gain a better shield bonus to AC from an oversized offhand weapon than from a heavy shield? Really? I mean, seriously? Wouldn't you think that the oversized offhand is clunky enough a shield might allow a bit better deflection?

    -Armor Specialization being takeable multiple times seems like a pretty heavy feat tax. Why not just give DR x/-, where x is half your armor's armor bonus? (possibly including enchantment?)

    -Combat Strike lasting until the end of the encounter is a pretty strong effect. I understand you need to make it worth expending it, but at this point the option may just be enter focus, expend it for the damage bonus. Give some way to reenter the combat focus, and you don't need the effect to last quite so long.

    Another possibility: Make Combat Strike give an attack as a Swift/Immediate Action when you expend your focus. It's more interesting at least.



    -With so many feats giving access to extra skills as class skills, I'm surprised your Fighter class features have no mention of giving extra skill points to the Fighter at all.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited (Fighter Feats Edition)

    -Why keep two weapon fighting as 3 separate feats? As they are, it's way too heavy of a feat tax for a single fighting style. One of the first things I would have done is make it a single feat that scales.
    The idea was to keep a lot of feats as multiple improved/greater versions to represent improving class features. A Rogue doesn't get a Sneak Attack that just deals 1d6 damage/two Rogue levels as well as other class features at every two class levels. It gets a +1d6 improvement as a class feature. So, instead of handing tons of automatic benefits to the Fighter (which I'm still doing just not with every single feat) he does still have to take feats to improve on the old ones.

    -This really does make a Fighter 1/2 dip way too strong. All rogues for example would love to dip one level into Fighter and pick up improved feint. Anything requiring less than Fighter 5 you should just roll into the feat itself.
    I'm not convinced it makes the Fighter 1 or 2 dip "too strong." It certainly is more attractive, but I don't think I buy that it does anything too crazy right now. I've also made sure to be adding lots of higher level Fighter benefits so that those Fighter levels are attractive.

    -Improved Crit's death effect is fine, but really change it back to doubling the threat range, or at most only making it a +1. You said you changed it to avoid the "I crit on a 7" thing, but since they made it so Keen and Improved Crit and other crit doubling multipliers don't stack, that's not much of an issue. This however exacerbates it, since you are adding a new modifier in that does stack. Where normally you could get at most 18-20 down to 15-20, now you can get it down to 16-20, then get a Keen Weapon to take that down to 11-20. Or get a big x4 crit weapon and have it at 18-20, 15-20 with Keen.
    I probably will change it back to doubling the threat range, but then I might have to change the Fighter benefit on it too... I dunno.

    Also, while the death effect is fine, the stagger is over the top. You can leave it in as an effect for things that are immune to death effects but still fail their save, but them taking a critical hit should be penalty enough for succeeding on their save.
    You think Staggering on a critical hit for 1d4 rounds at 12th level is over the top? The Fighter is 12th level. He needs nice things.

    -Deflect Arrows allowing spell deflection at will from 6th level? Seems pretty over the top. I had a similar ability as a 19th level ability and was still afraid it was strong.
    All it does is allow Ray deflection. He can't deflect Dominate Person for example. At 19th level such an ability comes in drastically too late. I think somewhere in the 6th to 8th level range is just where it ought to be (for just Rays). I plan to write an improvement feat that allows him to substitute an attack roll for a saving throw against spells/SLAs/supernatural abilities once per round which would kick in around 13th level.

    -Does Crossbow Focus stack with weapon focus, or the PHB2 feat that adds dexterity to crossbow damage? Also, unless there's a feat I missed supporting other weapons similarly, this makes crossbows the weapon of choice for any ranged attacker. Just something you ought to keep in mind.
    I suppose it maybe shouldn't stack with Weapon Focus, and the PHB2 feat simply isn't going to exist now that Crossbow Focus does. Now, your last point is something that I was concerned about myself, but I felt that it was similar enough to the exotic weapon proficiency issue that is was probably okay. You can use a Composite Longbow to very nice effect with the ranged feats presented here, or if you've got an extra feat you can spend it on Crossbow Focus for a little extra boost.

    -You gain a better shield bonus to AC from an oversized offhand weapon than from a heavy shield? Really? I mean, seriously? Wouldn't you think that the oversized offhand is clunky enough a shield might allow a bit better deflection?
    It's similar to Heavy Shield vs Tower Shield. You get more AC, but you're taking penalties to your attack rolls. I felt that evened it out.

    -Armor Specialization being takeable multiple times seems like a pretty heavy feat tax. Why not just give DR x/-, where x is half your armor's armor bonus? (possibly including enchantment?)
    Again, the feat tax was intentional, but this is a bit more tiresome a tax than the Two-Weapon Fighting tree, so it's still a good point. I may change the Fighter benefit on this one to exactly what you're suggesting.

    -at this point the option may just be enter focus, expend it for the damage bonus. Give some way to reenter the combat focus, and you don't need the effect to last quite so long.
    Certainly that will be a good option sometimes, and I want that to be a tactical decision. If the Fighter is doing that, he sacrifices +2 to a save, and two of Blindsight, Fast Healing, or extra defenses. I feel like it's definitely a difficult trade-off.

    -With so many feats giving access to extra skills as class skills, I'm surprised your Fighter class features have no mention of giving extra skill points to the Fighter at all.
    I actually just did that, it was an oversight that I noticed just before I noticed your reply.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2010-12-14 at 03:38 PM.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited (Fighter Feats Edition)

    I'm not convinced it makes the Fighter 1 or 2 dip "too strong." It certainly is more attractive, but I don't think I buy that it does anything too crazy right now. I've also made sure to be adding lots of higher level Fighter benefits so that those Fighter levels are attractive.
    Sure higher levels of fighter are attractive. But you're making 1-2 levels of fighter mandatory for any melee build. I mean, why not?

    When something gets to the point where everyone does it because not doing so is stupid, you've gone overboard.


    You think Staggering on a critical hit for 1d4 rounds at 12th level is over the top? The Fighter is 12th level. He needs nice things.
    Staggering on a failed save, with no opportunity cost? Yes, it's over the top. Staggering is a strong effect, and gives whoever is inflicting it a major action advantage.

    This is the problem most melee fixes encounter. You -need- some form of resource to manage for nice effects, because having them at will is simply too strong. But no melee class comes with a resource that is easily workable, as they're either non existent or horribly limited.

    All it does is allow Ray deflection
    Okay I may have misread it. I was thinking it could affect any spell targetting him. Given most rays are pretty limited, that shouldn't be too bad.

    I suppose it maybe shouldn't stack with Weapon Focus, and the PHB2 feat simply isn't going to exist now that Crossbow Focus does. Now, your last point is something that I was concerned about myself, but I felt that it was similar enough to the exotic weapon proficiency issue that is was probably okay. You can use a Composite Longbow to very nice effect with the ranged feats presented here, or if you've got an extra feat you can spend it on Crossbow Focus for a little extra boost.
    Is there an exotic bow that uses dex to damage? I doubt it. And of course iirc there's exotic crossbows that would stack with this. While eliminating MAD at the same time. It really doesn't seem right to make longbows totally obsolete like that.

    It's similar to Heavy Shield vs Tower Shield. You get more AC, but you're taking penalties to your attack rolls. I felt that evened it out.
    But thematically, does it make sense? Pick up a two handed weapon in one hand, and try to use it as a shield. A light weapon would honestly likely be more effective. And neither would be anywhere near the effectiveness of a tower shield, or even a regular heavy shield.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited (Fighter Feats Edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Sure higher levels of fighter are attractive. But you're making 1-2 levels of fighter mandatory for any melee build. I mean, why not?

    When something gets to the point where everyone does it because not doing so is stupid, you've gone overboard.
    The question is, have I actually made that dip any more "mandatory" than it already was? Melee builds dip Fighter ALL the time already. Because of the changes to these feats would a disproportionate number of new builds automatically dip Fighter 2? I leave that for char-op to decide. If I've kept the number of "auto-dips" at the status quo, but at the same time I've provided meaningful progress and power to the Fighter class alone I feel like I've done my job well.

    Staggering on a failed save, with no opportunity cost? Yes, it's over the top. Staggering is a strong effect, and gives whoever is inflicting it a major action advantage.

    This is the problem most melee fixes encounter. You -need- some form of resource to manage for nice effects, because having them at will is simply too strong. But no melee class comes with a resource that is easily workable, as they're either non existent or horribly limited.
    It comes with an opportunity cost. The feat itself. You're spending one of your class features on being able to do it. It's also not at will. It only occurs on a crit. If you're investing to be able to crit half the time you're giving up other bonuses and powers to do that. Even still, Staggering foes on half your attacks every encounter shouldn't be too gamebusting at 12th level. We're talking about facing down nutty critters like Abyssal Greater Basilisks which can kill you with a Gaze, Glabrezus that can Reverse Gravity and Greater Teleport at will, or Kolyaruts who can Enervate you all day until you no longer exist.

    Is there an exotic bow that uses dex to damage? I doubt it. And of course iirc there's exotic crossbows that would stack with this. While eliminating MAD at the same time. It really doesn't seem right to make longbows totally obsolete like that.
    Many exotic weapons do exist that make martial versions totally obsolete. No, there isn't an exotic ranged weapon that does what the Crossbow Focus feat does. What I'm saying makes Crossbow Focus and Exotic Weapon Proficiency similar is that they both make a weapon obsolete, but they both also cost a feat to do so. Is that fair? I dunno. I might nerf Crossbow Focus some, because like I said, it does bother me some too.

    But thematically, does it make sense? Pick up a two handed weapon in one hand, and try to use it as a shield. A light weapon would honestly likely be more effective. And neither would be anywhere near the effectiveness of a tower shield, or even a regular heavy shield.
    Would it be beneficial though to grant a +2 shield bonus with a light off-hand weapon, a +1 shield bonus with a one-handed offhand, and a +0 shield bonus with an oversized weapon? Maybe...

    EDIT: To nobody in particular - I'm considering changing the feats up some so that they power up based on the number of [Fighter] feats you have. Everything on the Fighter's list of bonus feats would get the [Fighter] subtype. The change here is that other classes could pick up several [Fighter] feats to grab more of the Fighter "exclusive" benefits than they are currently able to. It's cleaner with the subtype, but it removes a lot of the exclusivity. What do you guys think?

    EDIT PART DEUX: I've found a workaround to preserve the Fighter's exclusivity. The idea is that only the Fighter class benefits from counting up his [Fighter] tagged feats. This will be a part of the [Fighter] subtype, and will be noted in the Fighter's Bonus Feats feature write up. Individual feats can still allow for specific other classes to subvert this rule. The full mechanic would work as follows:

    Blind-Fight [Fighter]
    Benefit: Add the Listen skill to your list of class skills if it wasn't already there. Once per attack when you miss a target because of concealment you may reroll the miss chance. Further, against an invisible attacker you do not lose your Dexterity bonus to AC, nor does the attacker gain any special bonuses. Finally, you suffer no reduction to your speed while you are unable to see.
    Special: For every [Fighter] feat you possess add 10ft to your Blindsense. If you do not have Blindsense you gain it out to 10ft. If you possess 2 or more [Fighter] feats you are immune to the Blinded condition. Monks are treated as Fighters for the purposes of this feat.

    So what do we think ladies and gents?

    EDIT3: More examples of the above mechanics:
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    Combat Expertise [Fighter]
    Prerequisites: Int 13, Base Attack +1
    Benefit: As SRD, except that you can take a penalty as big as your base attack bonus (no -5 limit), but also you double the dodge bonus granted by this feat if you wield a heavy shield OR a finesseable weapon (you get no special benefit for wielding both).
    Special: If you possess 2 or more [Fighter] feats whenever an enemy misses you with an attack that creature provokes an attack of opportunity from you.
    Special: Fighters may ignore this feat's prerequisites.

    Improved Disarm [Fighter]
    Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you possess 2 or more [Fighter] feats, anytime you hit an enemy with an attack you may declare the attack to be a disarming strike. If you do, the enemy makes an attack roll opposing your attack roll that just hit. If the enemy's attack roll is lower than yours it is disarmed.
    Special: Fighters may ignore this feat's prerequisites.

    Improved Feint [Fighter]
    Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise
    Benefit: As SRD, but also add the Bluff skill to your list of class skills if it wasn't already there.
    Special: For every two [Fighter] feats you possess, after successfully feinting an opponent, your next attack against that opponent deals +1d6 damage as the Sneak Attack class feature. If you possess 3 or more [Fighter] feats you may feint in combat as a swift action.
    Special: Fighters may ignore this feat's prerequisites.

    Improved Trip [Fighter]
    Prerequisites Int 13, Combat Expertise
    Benefit: As SRD, but also add the Balance skill to your list of class skills if it wasn't already there.
    Special: If you possess 3 or more [Fighter] feats, whenever you hit with an attack you may spend a swift action to declare the attack to be a knockdown blow. If you do you may immediately initiate a trip attempt against that enemy. If your knockdown blow was a melee attack and your trip attempt succeeds you gain an immediate extra melee attack against the enemy.
    Special: Fighters may ignore this feat's prerequisites.

    Whirlwind Attack [Fighter]
    Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, Base Attack +6
    Benefit: As SRD.
    Special: If you possess 3 or more [Fighter] feats you may ignore this feat's prerequisites.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2010-12-15 at 01:29 AM.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited (Fighter Feats Edition)

    The question is, have I actually made that dip any more "mandatory" than it already was? Melee builds dip Fighter ALL the time already. Because of the changes to these feats would a disproportionate number of new builds automatically dip Fighter 2? I leave that for char-op to decide.
    Some would be more likely others wouldn't. The main example that stuck out to me was the swift action feint, that any melee rogue ever would want. But a lot of the other effects were pretty good too, and anyone who was considering taking one or more of those feats is probably going to go for the Fighter dip, even if otherwise they may have gone a different route.


    It comes with an opportunity cost. The feat itself. You're spending one of your class features on being able to do it. It's also not at will. It only occurs on a crit. If you're investing to be able to crit half the time you're giving up other bonuses and powers to do that. Even still, Staggering foes on half your attacks every encounter shouldn't be too gamebusting at 12th level. We're talking about facing down nutty critters like Abyssal Greater Basilisks which can kill you with a Gaze, Glabrezus that can Reverse Gravity and Greater Teleport at will, or Kolyaruts who can Enervate you all day until you no longer exist.
    No, really, staggering things at will is really really strong. You're heavily underestimating it. You are telling the enemy, no you cannot take a full round action. If you want to move away from me you can't do ****, and if you want to do **** you're stuck next to me. It's a great effect, and it's good to see Fighters get it, but not something that will come up as often as a critical hit.

    Remember, the Fighter doesn't just get one attack a round. He's getting a lot of attacks. He has opportunity actions, he's full attacking, he's got pounces and spring attacks, and whatever else you want, by 12th level if the Fighter isn't attacking 4-5 times a round he's probably not trying hard. If he's dual wielding he can probably manage double that. Every one of those attacks has a pretty strong chance of making the target make a saving throw against death, which is a strong effect in itself, then even if they succeed on their save, they're staggered and ****ed for the next round. The only way you could make this more overpowered is by making it a stun.


    And no, it being a class feature does not justify it. Taking it instead of something else is not an opportunity cost, especially when no other choice is anywhere near that level of power.

    Many exotic weapons do exist that make martial versions totally obsolete. No, there isn't an exotic ranged weapon that does what the Crossbow Focus feat does. What I'm saying makes Crossbow Focus and Exotic Weapon Proficiency similar is that they both make a weapon obsolete, but they both also cost a feat to do so. Is that fair? I dunno. I might nerf Crossbow Focus some, because like I said, it does bother me some too.
    Well the difference as far as I'm concerned is that flavorwise, actual bows are more common to fantasy, and it is strange to consider them the vastly inferior weapon in D&D. I mean yeah, you can get a longbow/greatbow, have to worry about keeping up your strength along with your dex, and still have overall inferior results... or you could just go with a crossbow, focus on a single stat, and be much better off. Even if you compare feat for feat, EWP: Greatbow will be inferior to a regular Heavy Crossbow with your feat.

    I'd recommend toning the damage bonus down to 1/2 dex, a la the PHB2 feat.

    Would it be beneficial though to grant a +2 shield bonus with a light off-hand weapon, a +1 shield bonus with a one-handed offhand, and a +0 shield bonus with an oversized weapon? Maybe...
    Perhaps. Honestly I'd just give up the shield bonus. Maybe allow someone dual wielding to be treated as holding a shield for expertise, but a shield itself should be the best shield.

    EDIT: To nobody in particular - I'm considering changing the feats up some so that they power up based on the number of [Fighter] feats you have. Everything on the Fighter's list of bonus feats would get the [Fighter] subtype. The change here is that other classes could pick up several [Fighter] feats more of the Fighter "exclusive" benefits than they are currently able to. It's cleaner with the subtype, but it removes a lot of the exclusivity. What do you guys think?
    I like this. It deemphasizes the Fighter dip, while still letting the Fighter become more powerful through his feats. It also follows the design example of the combat form feats, which I always liked.

    Using the example from above for the Improved Feint, a rogue might pick up that, two weapon fighting, dodge, and mobility, and still get the swift action feint. Sure, it took him until level 9 (6 if human) while the Fighter had it by level 3 (2 if human), but he still got the benefit he wanted without going into Fighter, and possibly the bonus benefits from the other feats as well.


    edit: Just saw your edit part 2 and realized you were thinking totally differently from me, so scratch the above.
    Last edited by Seerow; 2010-12-15 at 01:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited (Fighter Feats Edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    No, really, staggering things at will is really really strong. You're heavily underestimating it. You are telling the enemy, no you cannot take a full round action. If you want to move away from me you can't do ****, and if you want to do **** you're stuck next to me. It's a great effect, and it's good to see Fighters get it, but not something that will come up as often as a critical hit.
    I'm still not convinced. Any of the monsters I brought up in my above post can still do any of the things I brought up while Staggered. And all of those actions are things that can totally destroy your world. I'm sure there are other CR 10-14 monsters that can do even worse to you while they are Staggered. Also, it would be less powerful, probably, if I made it a 1 round Stun, which I might actually do, because a lot of monsters at that level are immune to Stunning.

    I'd recommend toning the damage bonus down to 1/2 dex, a la the PHB2 feat.
    I might. I might also just lose the Dex bonus to damage entirely. Maybe keep the PHB2 feat, but add more benefits for just the Fighter.

    Perhaps. Honestly I'd just give up the shield bonus. Maybe allow someone dual wielding to be treated as holding a shield for expertise, but a shield itself should be the best shield.
    Do you have any other suggestions then for the Fighter-only benefits for the Two-Weapon Fighting feat?

    I like this. It deemphasizes the Fighter dip, while still letting the Fighter become more powerful through his feats. It also follows the design example of the combat form feats, which I always liked.

    Using the example from above for the Improved Feint, a rogue might pick up that, two weapon fighting, dodge, and mobility, and still get the swift action feint. Sure, it took him until level 9 (6 if human) while the Fighter had it by level 3 (2 if human), but he still got the benefit he wanted without going into Fighter, and possibly the bonus benefits from the other feats as well.


    edit: Just saw your edit part 2 and realized you were thinking totally differently from me, so scratch the above.
    Well, I'm not set on either of the options yet, so which one do you like better? Anyone else with an opinion, please feel free to chime in! I like Seerow 'n all, but other points of view are totally welcome.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited (Fighter Feats Edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    Do you have any other suggestions then for the Fighter-only benefits for the Two-Weapon Fighting feat?

    -

    Well, I'm not set on either of the options yet, so which one do you like better? Anyone else with an opinion, please feel free to chime in! I like Seerow 'n all, but other points of view are totally welcome.
    TWF: Let Fighters use both Weapons with a Standard Action, instead of waiting until Improved TWF. That seems simple enough, and addresses the only real weakness of the Fighting Style.
    Last edited by Adamantrue; 2010-12-15 at 01:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited (Fighter Feats Edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantrue View Post
    TWF: Let Fighters use both Weapons with a Standard Action, instead of waiting until Improved TWF. That seems simple enough, and addresses the only real weakness of the Fighting Style.
    I suppose I can probably do that.

    I've decided to run with the [Fighter] subtype idea. I've presented rules for the subtype in the original post and I've begun to edit the feats accordingly. Some of the feats have changed to better work with this design.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited (Fighter Feats Edition)

    Bah humbug, I'm going back to my original designs. It does what I was looking for in the beginning much more precisely. It may be a little more clunky design-wise, but I didn't like all the automatic scaling benefits the [Fighter] tag granted, and it was encouraging me to do stuff like automatically scale Two-Weapon Fighting, which was just completely against what I wanted to do in the beginning. I don't want the feats to change much at all for non-Fighters, and my original design just does that better.
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited (Fighter Feats Edition)

    I'm still working on these. I have some edits to post up and a few new feats to add, which I'll do in a minute. Chiefly, I overhauled Weapon Focus so that it's not weirdly Psionics based, and temporarily removed Weapon Spec, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Spec.

    Still hoping for some feedback, guys!
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    Default Re: Revised Feats Revisited (Fighter Feats Edition)

    Okay, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization are all up. They are designed to grant the Fighter equivalent abilities to maneuvers and stances with his selected weapon and give him interesting and awesome effects other than mere numerical bonuses.

    Any opinion of the new feats or the Fighter 20 build I have linked in the original post?

    EDIT: I know this project has gotten a little slow, but I'll get back to it after the holiday season is over.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2010-12-22 at 02:57 AM.
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