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2010-12-24, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- In a shadow of a shadow
- Gender
Alignment, Motivations, and Actions
Yes, another debate thread. Hulooh.
First, a little backstory: I am a fan of the-admittedly anvillicious, but insightful-webshow known as Extra Credits (it's on the Escapist) and they recently sung the praises of a video game based charity.
Now, that's all well good and all, except on the forums, some now-banned idiot-and I say "idiot" as in "not a troll" because he seemed to truly believe his spiel-that donating for charities is for suckers, because giving to children is an inherently selfish activity.
Yeah. The other commenters didn't quite follow that logic, either.
An interesting point that was raised, however, was that just because one gives to charity to make one feels better about himself, it doesn't mean the donation is "tainted" somehow-if your narcissism manifests as "I must make excessive anonymous donations", all the more power to you.
Which brings me too my point:
If someone is doing altruistic things for selfish reasons, does he qualify as "good"?My Homestuck role is Thane of Space of the Land of Insanity and Frogs.
The Malkavians would be proud.
***
Thanks to Mokipi for the Exalted avatar!
For avatars of your own, he's on White Wolf.
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2010-12-24, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
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2010-12-24, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Switzerland
- Gender
Re: Alignment, Motivations, and Actions
I'd go a step further and say that, if you go far enough, every possible motivation is selfish. Altruism is selfishness with more perspective.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2010-12-24, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Location
- Gotham City
- Gender
Re: Alignment, Motivations, and Actions
Steady supporter of Girard Draketooth's thoughts on law & paladins.And yet, incoherently fan of Tarquin, too.
Avatar by Terry576
SpoilerI am a:
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2010-12-24, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
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2010-12-24, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- In your head.
- Gender
Re: Alignment, Motivations, and Actions
Realistic action and motives are never purely good or evil.
However, helping others without anyone (perhaps maybe yourself) getting hurt can't be anything BUT good. even if the donation DOES hurt you (you lost money), you might still be "gaining" in the process. (becoming more respected, famous, just feeling better.)
In order for something to be evil-it must come at the expense of others, entire as directly hurting them, or having no care for side-effects that your actions might have on them.
Neutral actions are mostly things you do for yourself, but does hurt or risk anybody in the process. (eat, sleep, exercise, pray, meditate, etc...)
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2010-12-24, 09:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Gender
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2010-12-24, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
- Location
- UK
- Gender
Re: Alignment, Motivations, and Actions
I too am a big fan of the escapist and found this a very interesting read.
TL;DR summary of the article:
Law- The action itself is all that matters
Chaos- The outcome of the action is all that matters
Good- Equal care for all sentient beings
Evil- Only those very close to oneself (or perhaps only you) matter
It actually lines up with my personal feelings on alignment quite well.
Anyway, as far as the alignment system in that article would place it, well, a LG person would see such an action as 'Good' (the action is good, the consequences don't matter) whilst a CG person would see the action as, at least partly, selfish (the result of the action matters) although in this case the result still helps people, so the action would likely be, in the grand scheme of things still be considered 'Good' by people with this outlook on life.
Edit: In answer to your question- In D&D, yes the action would be considered 'Good' as both the action itself and (at least part of) the result are also 'Good'.Last edited by Jack DeCoeur; 2010-12-24 at 09:22 PM.
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2010-12-24, 11:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: Alignment, Motivations, and Actions
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2010-12-24, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Midwest U.S.
Re: Alignment, Motivations, and Actions
The caring for the sick and wounded is still good. However, your final action, summoning a hideous, world-ending demon lord, is so very evil that all your years of service are totally overwhelmed by the evil of your summoning, putting your alignment properly back at evil.
My Unitarian Jihad name is Brother Rail Gun of Sweet Reason. Get yours!
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2010-12-24, 11:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
- Gender
Re: Alignment, Motivations, and Actions
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2010-12-24, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- In a shadow of a shadow
- Gender
Re: Alignment, Motivations, and Actions
Last edited by Leliel; 2010-12-24 at 11:44 PM.
My Homestuck role is Thane of Space of the Land of Insanity and Frogs.
The Malkavians would be proud.
***
Thanks to Mokipi for the Exalted avatar!
For avatars of your own, he's on White Wolf.
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2010-12-24, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Virginia, USA
- Gender
Re: Alignment, Motivations, and Actions
It's no longer altruism if you have a selfish motive, in my opinion. I'd call it a firmly neutral act with good leanings, but I'm known to play fast and loose with alignments and weigh intent along with action.
Snickett avatar by me.
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