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    Lightbulb An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    So here ye be, come to lend your knowledge and intelligence to the difficult task of statting up some of our favourite lasses of Gensokyo using purely 3.5 (maybe Pathfinder) material. I don't know how far this will go, or even if the project will get off the ground, so I figure we'll just try to take it one at a time. Also, if there's a better area for this topic, please point it out.

    My vote for the first character we tackle is Sakuya Izayoi, the perfect and elegant maid of the Scarlet Devil Mansion. If anyone would like to begin with a different character, then I suppose we can either take an actual vote or you can just begin on your own.

    -------------------------------
    The goal is to capture, as accurately as possible, both the flavor and the abilities of the specified character. Actual ability scores, if we choose to go there at all, may be hard to guess in a lot of cases, but I figure we'll guesstimate as best we can.

    Now, so we know what we're up against, here are some of the difficulties that I can see with this project:

    1. Touhou is all about hideous, swirling barrages of colorful, often magical, projectiles; it's fairly difficult to find ways to throw large volleys of attacks like that in D&D, particularly if you're going to do it several times in a day, and rolling up bunches of attacks every round is a pain in the arse.

    2. Gensokyo is a magnificent hodgepodge of ancient mythology, more modern fantasy, and original creations; it may be difficult, for one thing, to find appropriate races for the girls, but I'm highly resistant to homebrewing anything for this project, so we'll just have to look hard, and be creative.

    3. Certain magical weapons, etc may be difficult to reproduce, though personally I'm quite fine with making them unique artifacts, so long as they use essentially materials/magical properties/spells/etc from 3.5.

    Feel free to bring up other difficulties we'll face, as well as possible solutions (I have plenty myself, mostly simple ones, but I'll create a list of counters to the problems later, once I've found out if there's actually any interest).
    ---------------------------------------

    So, what do we know about Sakuya? I know at least that she's fast, acrobatic (going by the fighting games, which I would suggest we rely on more than the danmaku ones), highly skilled with knives, and of course has the signature ability to manipulate time and space. She is also human, and fiercely loyal to her mistress, Remilia Scarlet. Personally I doubt that she would be of evil alignment, but I suppose we'll need some evidence for that. Also her knives are silver.

    Feats that spring to mind immediately are the two-weapon fighting line, quick draw, and ranged feats like rapid shot. Spells I can think of that might be appropriate include cloud of knives (PHB2), possibly ring of blades and/or blade barrier, haste, slow, and time stop (though time stop has the horribly untheatrical limitation of not allowing any kind of physical attacks to be made, but maybe she could cast a bunch of 'cloud of knives' spells while time is frozen?). Psionic powers that come to mind include time hop and temporal acceleration.

    So what could she be? A psychic warrior with the Time mantle? A cleric with the Time and Celerity domains? Some kind of gish? Let's hear your thoughts.

    Also, does anyone know whether her watch is actually the source of her powers, or augments them in some way? And how is she going to fly?
    Last edited by Scarlet-Devil; 2011-01-24 at 11:17 PM.

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Someone did attempt to put together a Touhou d20 game that assumes aerial combat and spellcards.


    My own takes, though:
    I was thinking Sakuya would be a Swordsage/Rogue/Master Thrower. She can
    get Diamond Mind maneuvers, especially the time-related ones like Time Stands Still.

    Reimu is some kind of Clericzilla with the Protection and Exorcism domains.
    China and Yuugi are Unarmed Swordsages.
    Youmu I've actually used as an inspiration for a character: Kalashtar (closest thing to a half/ghost) Swordsage/Psychic Warrior.

    Remilia is a half-fiend vampire warlock/hellfire warlock.
    Flandre is obviously a Balor, since she has At-Will Implosion.
    Yuyuko is a ghost psion.
    Yukari is some kind of very powerful Far Realm entity outsider with 20 levels of Conjurer.

    Utsuho is also likely a hellfire warlock; probably a kenku.

    Suika is some crazy Tashalatora build gestalted with Sorcerer.

    Patchy can fit thematically well with both Wu Jen or Wizard.

    Marisa is a Wizard with the entire Prismatic line in her spellbook.

    Alice is an artificer. I once mulled making homunculi that looked like little dolls. That can easily be done with the homunculi in Eberron. I could even flavor the default homunculus as a flying doll holding a large syringe of poison.
    Archer dolls: Arbalester
    Goliath Doll: Iron Golem with slashing claws (swords) instead of slams.

    Eirin: Elan Cleric with the Moon and Healing domains.
    Kaguya: Elan psion (for immortality)

    Mokou: Unarmed Swordsage/Sorcerer/Jade Phoenix Mage.
    Keine: Archivist

    EDIT: My bad, A balor apparently doesn't have At-Will Implosion. Close enough, though.
    Last edited by AslanCross; 2010-12-25 at 05:29 AM.


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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Art - Homebrew - Avatar adoptions - Eberron in Pathfinder - Pactio!
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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    An impressive work, but also largely homebrew; the point of this thread was to work within the existing limitations of 3.5.

    My own takes, though:
    I was thinking Sakuya would be a Swordsage/Rogue/Master Thrower. She can
    get Diamond Mind maneuvers, especially the time-related ones like Time Stands Still.

    Reimu is some kind of Clericzilla with the Protection and Exorcism domains.
    China and Yuugi are Unarmed Swordsages.
    Youmu I've actually used as an inspiration for a character: Kalashtar (closest thing to a half/ghost) Swordsage/Psychic Warrior.

    Remilia is a half-fiend vampire warlock/hellfire warlock.
    Flandre is obviously a Balor, since she has At-Will Implosion.
    Yuyuko is a ghost psion.
    Yukari is some kind of very powerful Far Realm entity outsider with 20 levels of Conjurer.

    Utsuho is also likely a hellfire warlock; probably a kenku.

    Suika is some crazy Tashalatora build gestalted with Sorcerer.

    Patchy can fit thematically well with both Wu Jen or Wizard.

    Marisa is a Wizard with the entire Prismatic line in her spellbook.

    Alice is an artificer. I once mulled making homunculi that looked like little dolls. That can easily be done with the homunculi in Eberron. I could even flavor the default homunculus as a flying doll holding a large syringe of poison.
    Archer dolls: Arbalester
    Goliath Doll: Iron Golem with slashing claws (swords) instead of slams.

    Eirin: Elan Cleric with the Moon and Healing domains.
    Kaguya: Elan psion (for immortality)

    Mokou: Unarmed Swordsage/Sorcerer/Jade Phoenix Mage.
    Keine: Archivist

    EDIT: My bad, A balor apparently doesn't have At-Will Implosion. Close enough, though.
    All good starts, but I was hoping to go into much greater detail with each character, hence proposing focusing on one at a time; I would like to get as close as possible to actually being able to write up a full character sheet for them.

    I have ideas for many of the characters, but on the subject of Sakuya, swordsage just doesn't feel quite right to me, partly because Diamond Mind is supposed to represent a sublime focus in battle, as opposed to actually manipulating time and space. Rogue seems to make some sense though, and considering all the 'grazing' they do, evasion might be a good ability to give to as many of the girls as possible.

    Remember that she has to be able to fly, accelerate/decelerate/stop/etc time, throw/create many knives at once, create illusions(?), and possibly teleport short distances. Also, for the sake of accuracy, the minimum number of levels able to make the character do what they do should be used, gestalt is certainly open though.

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    How about the Swiftblade for Sakuya? it is fairly fast and at higher levels can stop time like a SLA.

    just my two pence

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    My take on Sakuya, as posted on BG:

    Sakuya Izayoi
    Spoiler
    Show
    Human Wilder 1-6/Psi. Swiftblade 1-10/Wld 7-10
    STR:10 DEX:14 CON:12 INT:13 WIS:10 CHA:14+5 Init:+2+4 AL:??
    HP:92 AC:// Sv:6b/10b/13b BA:+17 GRAB:+17 SPEED:30ft+20

    Feats: Expeditious Dodge(RotW)(1st), Mobility(hum.), Martial wpn Prof.(any)(3rd),Expanded Knowledge()(Wld5,B), Expanded Knowledge(physical acceleration[PsW 2])(6th), Spring Attack(SwB1,B), Delay Power(9th), Expanded Knowledge()(9th,B), Extend Power(12th), Practiced Manifester(12th), Bounding Assault(SwB7,B), Psionic Meditation(15th), Skill Focus(Profession(Maid))(18th), Expanded Knowledge(Schism[Tel 5])(Wld9,B)

    Skills: Balance(10r.), Concentration(23r.), Jump(23r.), Listen(15r.), Psicraft(6r.), Profession(Maid)(23r.), Spot(15r.), Tumble(23r.)

    Special:Wild Surge +3, Psychic Enervation, Elude Touch, Surging Euphoria +1, Educated Wilder, Swift Surge, Blurred Alacrity, Sudden Manifesting, Psychic Reflexes, Evasive Celerity, Fortified Hustle, Bounding Assault, Diligent Rapidity, Perpetual Options, Innervated Speed

    Psionics: PP/d:221+40 ML:20 DC:14+lvl
    1st:Crystal Shard, Force Screen, Defensive Precognition(?)
    2nd:Swarm of Crystals, Physical Acceleration
    3rd:Time Hop
    4th:Dimension Door
    5th:True Seeing(?), Schism(?)
    6th:Overland Flight
    7th:Pers. Mind Blank(?)
    8th:True Metabolism(??)

    About the power choices:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Crystal shard/Swarm of Crystals sub for the knife barrages. Force Screen is pretty much Sakuya's blocking animation from SWR.
    Def. Precogn. & Time hop are filler, though the hop is at least time-related.
    Phys. Acc. is an obvious one.
    Dimension Door is for SWR 22C. Also good for transporting heavy object above unsuspecting victims during time stop, if only for the meme.
    True Seeing & Personal Mindblank are sorta mandatory at high lvls, right?
    Schism is handy, if hard to justify for her.
    Overland Flight, duh.
    True Metabolism is sorta filler, mostly to have a use for 14 rounds of time stopping. Can be partially justified with accelerated natural healing, though the regeneration effect doesn't go well with that excuse.

    There are dissapointingly few powers that deal with time to grab, so i had to make do with these.

    Didn't include items and went with a 25 pt-buy. Potentially playable 1-20 i'd say, at least in low-op games. Can stop time for 14 rounds on lvl 20 (3pp(Phys.Acc.) + 6pp(Aug. Temp.Acc.) + 6X2pp (Augment dur.) + 2pp(Extend power)) using wild surge. More than 7 rounds aren't really needed, though.

    On those six rounds, a sequence of:
    7.) Schism/Focus/Physical Acc.
    6.)diddly-squat(main), focus(schism)
    5.) Aug.(+15d4) Delayed Swarm of Crystals/Focus/A.D.S.o.C.(main), Aug.(+9d
    4) Delayed Swarm of Crystals(schism)
    4.) Focus(main)/A.D.S.o.C.(main)/Focus(main), Focus(Schism)
    3.) repeat of 5.
    2.) repeat of 4.
    1.) repeat of 5.
    0.) open fire .
    (3+1+3+1+3) => 8x18d4 + 3x14d4 = 465 slashing damage, no save/AC/SR. Good enough to take down most things in the MM. Bit of a one-trick pony sadly.
    Also, the feats are a bit ... uninspired. All the necessary stuff is there but it could use some work. I mean, skill focus ? Also has room for flaws for adding a feat combo, maybe something based on Robilar's gambit, the skirmish damage & AoO from moving? Picking up Hustle
    w. Exp. Knowledge would allow two extra Swarms for a bit more damage, though pp/d starts to become an issue.

    One option would be using Delayed Telekinetic Thrust + Quickdraw during stopped time, drawing daggers as free actions and dropping them in-air to suspend them, with a Delayed Tel. Thrust to launch them when time resumes. Though what happens to items you let go of during time-stop effects is a bit of a mystery. Also, the Tel. thrust method is ridiculously weak to DR of any sort.
    Not using the Psionic Swiftblade cuts off a few rounds of Acceleration, but that's about it. Pureclassed Wilder 11+ can do all the stuff needed, if slightly less efficiently.

    Edit: also, Hengeyokai from Oriental Adventures could be handy for Chen, Ran, Rin, Mystia and maybe Wriggle (using the stats for crab Hengeyokai?).
    Also useful is that per OA, sorcerers can take the Wu Jen spell list if they wish, providing access to Giant Size and Minute Form (Suika), for example. Also Body Outside Body (one of Flan's spellcards).
    Last edited by IncoherentEssay; 2010-12-25 at 01:36 PM.
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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoJoker View Post
    How about the Swiftblade for Sakuya? it is fairly fast and at higher levels can stop time like a SLA.

    just my two pence
    Swiftblade is brilliant, I think it could definitely have a part in her build.

    My take on Sakuya, as posted on BG:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote:
    Sakuya Izayoi
    Spoiler
    Human Wilder 1-6/Psi. Swiftblade 1-10/Wld 7-10
    STR:10 DEX:14 CON:12 INT:13 WIS:10 CHA:14+5 Init:+2+4 AL:??
    HP:92 AC:// Sv:6b/10b/13b BA:+17 GRAB:+17 SPEED:30ft+20

    Feats: Expeditious Dodge(RotW)(1st), Mobility(hum.), Martial wpn Prof.(any)(3rd),Expanded Knowledge()(Wld5,B), Expanded Knowledge(physical acceleration[PsW 2])(6th), Spring Attack(SwB1,B), Delay Power(9th), Expanded Knowledge()(9th,B), Extend Power(12th), Practiced Manifester(12th), Bounding Assault(SwB7,B), Psionic Meditation(15th), Skill Focus(Profession(Maid))(18th), Expanded Knowledge(Schism[Tel 5])(Wld9,B)

    Skills: Balance(10r.), Concentration(23r.), Jump(23r.), Listen(15r.), Psicraft(6r.), Profession(Maid)(23r.), Spot(15r.), Tumble(23r.)

    Special:Wild Surge +3, Psychic Enervation, Elude Touch, Surging Euphoria +1, Educated Wilder, Swift Surge, Blurred Alacrity, Sudden Manifesting, Psychic Reflexes, Evasive Celerity, Fortified Hustle, Bounding Assault, Diligent Rapidity, Perpetual Options, Innervated Speed

    Psionics: PP/d:221+40 ML:20 DC:14+lvl
    1st:Crystal Shard, Force Screen, Defensive Precognition(?)
    2nd:Swarm of Crystals, Physical Acceleration
    3rd:Time Hop
    4th:Dimension Door
    5th:True Seeing(?), Schism(?)
    6th:Overland Flight
    7th:Pers. Mind Blank(?)
    8th:True Metabolism(??)

    About the power choices:
    Spoiler
    Crystal shard/Swarm of Crystals sub for the knife barrages. Force Screen is pretty much Sakuya's blocking animation from SWR.
    Def. Precogn. & Time hop are filler, though the hop is at least time-related.
    Phys. Acc. is an obvious one.
    Dimension Door is for SWR 22C. Also good for transporting heavy object above unsuspecting victims during time stop, if only for the meme.
    True Seeing & Personal Mindblank are sorta mandatory at high lvls, right?
    Schism is handy, if hard to justify for her.
    Overland Flight, duh.
    True Metabolism is sorta filler, mostly to have a use for 14 rounds of time stopping. Can be partially justified with accelerated natural healing, though the regeneration effect doesn't go well with that excuse.

    There are dissapointingly few powers that deal with time to grab, so i had to make do with these.

    Didn't include items and went with a 25 pt-buy. Potentially playable 1-20 i'd say, at least in low-op games. Can stop time for 14 rounds on lvl 20 (3pp(Phys.Acc.) + 6pp(Aug. Temp.Acc.) + 6X2pp (Augment dur.) + 2pp(Extend power)) using wild surge. More than 7 rounds aren't really needed, though.

    On those six rounds, a sequence of:
    7.) Schism/Focus/Physical Acc.
    6.)diddly-squat(main), focus(schism)
    5.) Aug.(+15d4) Delayed Swarm of Crystals/Focus/A.D.S.o.C.(main), Aug.(+9d
    4) Delayed Swarm of Crystals(schism)
    4.) Focus(main)/A.D.S.o.C.(main)/Focus(main), Focus(Schism)
    3.) repeat of 5.
    2.) repeat of 4.
    1.) repeat of 5.
    0.) open fire .
    (3+1+3+1+3) => 8x18d4 + 3x14d4 = 465 slashing damage, no save/AC/SR. Good enough to take down most things in the MM. Bit of a one-trick pony sadly.
    Also, the feats are a bit ... uninspired. All the necessary stuff is there but it could use some work. I mean, skill focus ? Also has room for flaws for adding a feat combo, maybe something based on Robilar's gambit, the skirmish damage & AoO from moving? Picking up Hustle
    w. Exp. Knowledge would allow two extra Swarms for a bit more damage, though pp/d starts to become an issue.

    One option would be using Delayed Telekinetic Thrust + Quickdraw during stopped time, drawing daggers as free actions and dropping them in-air to suspend them, with a Delayed Tel. Thrust to launch them when time resumes. Though what happens to items you let go of during time-stop effects is a bit of a mystery. Also, the Tel. thrust method is ridiculously weak to DR of any sort.

    Not using the Psionic Swiftblade cuts off a few rounds of Acceleration, but that's about it. Pureclassed Wilder 11+ can do all the stuff needed, if slightly less efficiently.

    Edit: also, Hengeyokai from Oriental Adventures could be handy for Chen, Ran, Rin, Mystia and maybe Wriggle (using the stats for crab Hengeyokai?).
    Also useful is that per OA, sorcerers can take the Wu Jen spell list if they wish, providing access to Giant Size and Minute Form (Suika), for example. Also Body Outside Body (one of Flan's spellcards).
    That build does a pretty brilliant job of capturing her essence, but it feels like more of a Sakuya-esque character than the closest possible build for Sakuya herself; I feel that her knives need to be physical weapons, both because we know that they're made of silver (or are silvered) and we can see her physically throwing them/slashing with them (in the fighting games).

    One of the benefits of a class like Wilder though, is that they get very few powers known; obviously we don't want any of the characters to have a bunch of random, excess abilities that have nothing to do with their concept. For this reason, if we should use magic instead of psionics, a class like battle sorcerer might be appropriate (it also satisfies the martial weapon proficiency requirement of Swiftblade), maybe even with the other battle sorcerer (whatever it's called) variant from Complete Mage.

    On the other hand though, I don't know how charismatic Sakuya really is...

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Well, the good thing about psionics is how you don't have to take high level powers. Been quite a while since i did those stats, but i'm reasonably sure the crystal powers can be exchanged for Offensive Prescience and another lvl 1 or 2 power. Telekinetic Thrust requires the dropping of True Seeing at the earliest or the delayed acquisition of Time Hop/D.Door, with the eventual exclusion of True Metabolism. Or drop Schism.
    This should result in a more faithful representation of Sakuya.

    Main issue with it is damage, as Telekinetic thrust has very few sources to tap for moar damage. Offensive Pres. helps a bit, but any DR in excess of 10 makes her cry. 15x(d4+x) is potentially better than the crystals, and she can just resort to D.Dooring with roadrollers to take down high-DR targets .

    Though there is the can-o'-worms that is the "unattended objects within timestop" for this method .

    The other alternative is sorcerer with Arcane Strike + Shaped Whirling Blade spells. Has much less flexibility in terms of time manipulation and comes with excess baggage of spells known tho'.
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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    I guess you're right on a non-caster build not making much sense considering what Sakuya is capable of.

    It's really hard to model Sakuya's hammerspace knives using physical objects, but here are a few things that can help:

    1. gauntlet of infinite blades. Not perfect since it only generates one knife per turn (swift action activation), so not even having two of them really helps.

    2. cloud of knives spell (PHB2): A great idea because the knives deal more damage than daggers (1d6) and the use of a silvered dagger as a material component can make all of the knives count as magic silvered daggers. This works great for her skills in SWR/UNL: Magic Star Sword, Dancing Star Sword, and Sense of Thrown Edge work well with this.

    3. steeldance (PHB2): orbiting bladed weapons that can attack on their own. This can work with Crossup Magic and Propelling Silver.

    What I can think of right now is more of a Wizard (at least 7th level)/Daggerspell Mage/Swiftblade. (With probably 2 fighter levels to nab Dodge and Mobility for Swiftblade.)
    I don't really have time to build it right now, but I think this gives enough spell levels to model:
    -Private Square (haste/slow)
    -Sakuya's World (celerity; time stop is kind of too late-game to be useful)
    -Luna Dial (hold person is fine for this really)
    -Knife-throwing (cloud of knives)
    -C. Ricochet (orb of force)
    -[Scarred Soul] Soul Sculpture (haste-enhanced full attack plus celerity for one more round)
    -two weapon fighting, the ability to cast while holding two knives (Daggercast class feature)
    -Time Paradox (phantasmal killer)
    -Imaginary Vertical Time (phantasmal assailants), assuming the swords are actually not real
    -Vanish Everything (dimension door and the more short-range, low-level teleportation spells)
    -her invisible barrier in SWR/UNL (shield)

    EDIT: Apparently, Daggerspell Mage has some great class features for Sakuya:
    -5th level: Double Daggercast (hold the charge for one touch spell for each dagger you wield)
    -8th level: Arcane Throw (transfer the effects of a touch spell to a thrown dagger; if it misses the dagger flies back to the caster and retains the charge. This can model C. Ricochet quite well, but I'm just not sure which spell to put on it)
    -10th level: Daggerspell Flurry (cast a spell as if it were Quickened while making up to a full attack with daggers)

    With these it's worth going all ten levels in Daggerspell Mage. It has 9/10 casting as well. The only drawback is that it needs Sneak Attack +1d6, so she needs to take at least Rogue 1.

    We're going to end up with something like:
    Human Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Swiftblade 5/Daggerspell Mage 8

    Feats:
    1: Dodge
    1H: Two-Weapon Fighting
    2F: Weapon Focus (Dagger)
    3: Mobility
    6: Quick Draw
    7W: Quicken Spell
    9: Point-Blank Shot
    12: Rapid Shot
    15: Far Shot
    18: Hamstring

    The feats are really lame and about half of them are feat taxes for the PrCs, but most of what Sakuya does here is done by her spells.
    You end up with a 15th-level caster in the end. This at least gives her access to Emerald Flame Fist, which is the only spell I know of that has touch range that can deal significant damage (for C. Ricochet; that spellcard is murder in UNL)

    It is also possible to drop Swiftblade altogether or only take 3 levels thereof, but that makes her a lot less versatile. I'd think dropping Swiftblade would be a good thing in this build as that allows her to skip Dodge and Mobility.
    Last edited by AslanCross; 2010-12-25 at 07:55 PM.


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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Hmm, well I'm thoroughly convinced that magic is the way to go, haste/slow/celerity/cloud of knives, etc just fit way too well. How do you think you would stat her as a gestalt character? It would be nice to see her with 9th level spell slots for time stop, just for the maximum use of her abilities. I'd also kind of like to see her with evasion.

    Daggerspell Mage is good, but unfortunate... it doesn't actually increase caster level, you know. But if she were gestalt she could take her casting class at the same time and get full casting right?

    Edit: on the subject of irritating feats, can you think of any flaws that might be appropriate for Sakuya?
    Last edited by Scarlet-Devil; 2010-12-25 at 08:11 PM.

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet-Devil View Post
    Hmm, well I'm thoroughly convinced that magic is the way to go, haste/slow/celerity/cloud of knives, etc just fit way too well. How do you think you would stat her as a gestalt character? It would be nice to see her with 9th level spell slots for time stop, just for the maximum use of her abilities. I'd also kind of like to see her with evasion.

    Daggerspell Mage is good, but unfortunate... it doesn't actually increase caster level, you know. But if she were gestalt she could take her casting class at the same time and get full casting right?

    Edit: on the subject of irritating feats, can you think of any flaws that might be appropriate for Sakuya?
    Daggerspell Mage does increase caster level. Better than Swiftblade, I might add. In fact in this build she gets most of her caster levels from DsM.

    As for Flaws: Frail and Weak-Willed, I guess. IIRC there were rumors that Sakuya was once a vampire hunter who ended up a thrall willing servant of Remilia. Not sure about the source, though.


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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by AslanCross View Post
    Daggerspell Mage does increase caster level. Better than Swiftblade, I might add. In fact in this build she gets most of her caster levels from DsM.
    I'm afraid it does not, unless there has been some errata or something; it only increases spells per day and spells known.

    As for Flaws: Frail and Weak-Willed, I guess. IIRC there were rumors that Sakuya was once a vampire hunter who ended up a thrall willing servant of Remilia. Not sure about the source, though.
    Yeah, I've heard the same thing, don't know of a definite source either.

    Edit: This video seems to tell a different story though; I doubt either theories are anything but pure fanon though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdlMd...eature=related
    Last edited by Scarlet-Devil; 2010-12-26 at 01:22 PM.

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Rinnosuke is an artificer with a bag of holding.

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Situation View Post
    Rinnosuke is an artificer with a bag of holding.
    Heh, I'd say he's simple enough; what about his race though?

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Cirno Lv 9 Wizard/Cleric Gesalt Rank 9 Diety

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet-Devil View Post
    Yeah, I've heard the same thing, don't know of a definite source either.

    Edit: This video seems to tell a different story though; I doubt either theories are anything but pure fanon though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdlMd...eature=related
    Another common theory is that Sakuya is a Lunarian.

    Quote Originally Posted by World Eater View Post
    Cirno Lv 9 Wizard/Cleric Gesalt Rank 9 Diety
    Lv9 wizard with 9 Int.
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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post

    Lv9 wizard with 9 Int.
    Hmm, I think she'd be more appropriate as a sorcerer; I really don't see her doing well with books for one thing, and the sorcerer's limited number of spells known is easier to work with, since we pretty much know that Cirno's only tricks are to create ice and freeze things.

    Also, I seem to recall Shikieiki saying that she is actually very powerful, and needed to use her power more responsibly (lest Shikieiki be forced to send her to hell).

    Maybe something like an illiterate CN pixie sorcerer? On that note, does anyone know of a fey creature that can fly and has something to do with cold?

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Oh, and Konpaku Youki is a Warblade who has since then ascended into the epic levels. For what its worth he has a few ranks into Profession: Gardener.

    It takes an epic level PC's Wealth By Level Chart to feed Yuyuko after all.

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Situation View Post
    Oh, and Konpaku Youki is a Warblade who has since then ascended into the epic levels. For what its worth he has a few ranks into Profession: Gardener.

    It takes an epic level PC's Wealth By Level Chart to feed Yuyuko after all.
    Half-elf Warblade/Eternal Blade. Myon = Blade Guide. Half-baked = half-elf.
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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Well, I'd say we've pretty much covered Izayoi-san; Mr. AslanCross, I think, was pretty much right on the money with his conversions of some of her abilities to spells.

    I think what we've got is more or less: TN Human Wizard or Sorcerer (or battle sorcerer, basically any full arcane casting class that gets all of the needed spells)/Rogue/ (fighter or something else if feats are needed)/Daggerspell Mage/Swiftblade. I feel that if I wanted to throw her into the game world I could easily do so using just this template and Mr. Cross' spell suggestions.
    -------------------------------------------

    The next character I'd really like to cover is Remilia Scarlet, the Scarlet Devil who I took my name from. She's probably among my top five favourite Touhou girls.

    Anyway, what do we know about her?

    -She's obscenely fast, and possibly able to teleport (short distances)

    -She's a vampire; although her vampiric abilities might be a little vague, we at least know that she can change her form to a large bat, is very strong (much stronger than the young girl she appears to be at least), drinks blood, and hates sunlight and rain.

    -Unlike most D&D vampires, she has wings.

    -She throws knives, presumably skillfully, and wields the massive spear, Gungnir (which might be something like a throwing, returning, brilliant energy greatspear, but seems to work kind of like a line attack).

    -She can control fate (my understanding is that this ability is very vague, does anyone know exactly what she's capable of?); if this ability only affects herself, then it might be represented by something like foresight (or dark foresight ).

    Am I leaving anything out?

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Last edited by Prime32; 2010-12-26 at 07:09 PM.
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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Hmm, Vampire Paragon is a possibility, but I don't know if it actually adds anything that's distinctly 'Remilia'. Child Necromancer seems highly unnecessary; presumably, Remilia became a vampire when she was very young, hence never aging past loli-hood. I can't think of any evidence of her being a necromancer either, as she is not shown to have created undead (even by draining their blood, because of her light appetite) or done anything else necromancery.

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet-Devil View Post
    I'm afraid it does not, unless there has been some errata or something; it only increases spells per day and spells known.
    It uses the exact same wording as the Incantatrix, Archmage, and all of the PrCs in the older books (such as Complete Arcane). If what you're saying is true, then the Incantatrix's brokenness is moot due to it having only a CL of 5 for the rest of its career.

    I think the old wording has it clear in its intent that "as if you had gained a level in the arcane spellcasting class" increases spells known, spells per day and CL; the only thing you don't get is your old class's class features.

    Anyway, re: Remilia.

    Given her fluff that she's "the Devil," giving her the half-fiend template works well, so she can have wings. Half-Fiend also gives lots of spell-like abilities; I'd say her "Scarlet Devil" spellcard could be modeled by blasphemy.
    -Half fiend also gives: claws and an actual bite attack, neither of which vampires get.

    I'd say she has Warlock levels, and that her projectiles are variants of Eldritch Blast. Having levels in Hellfire Warlock powers up her blasting even more.

    -Eldritch Glaive and Eldritch Spear could model Gungnir for both melee and throwing.
    -flee the scene invocation for teleportation. She can do it at-will and leaves behind a major image.
    -hungry darkness: shadows filled with a swarm of bats. Can't get any more thematic than that.
    -dark discorporation: turn into a swarm! Of bats!
    -dark foresight: very good buff that works on self and others.
    Last edited by AslanCross; 2010-12-26 at 07:51 PM.


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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by AslanCross View Post
    It uses the exact same wording as the Incantatrix, Archmage, and all of the PrCs in the older books (such as Complete Arcane). If what you're saying is true, then the Incantatrix's brokenness is moot due to it having only a CL of 5 for the rest of its career.
    I'm afraid it's true, to the best of my knowledge; the wording is pretty clear about it, saying that the class increases spells per day, but never mentioning caster level (except in a few specific cases like Eldritch Knight). This is the reason so many magical prestige classes are avoided, and why practiced spellcaster is so loved.

    It's the difference between "Spells per day" and "spellcasting", i.e the abjurant champion gets an increase in caster level, while the alienist does not.

    Incantatrix is powerful because of its metamagic nonsense, but most of the abilities of the older prestige classes are paid for by sacrificing CL. I would love to be proven wrong in this though, but I'm not sure where to find official evidence that I am by RAW.

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Okay, I see what you're saying now. This is probably one of the most ridiculous rules-sense disjoints I've seen, as it makes some pretty well-liked PrCs like Geometer and Fatespinner suck completely. I now have a new houserule.


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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Warlock is the first thing that comes to mind for me as well (could just be because I love warlocks though ). Calling her Gungnir attacks modified eldritch blasts works, but it begs the question as to whether the spear is actually a magical artifact that she owns, or just one of her spells (technically 'invocations' in this case).

    I'm a little unsure of the half-fiend template for her... Scarlet Devil is really just a title (just like Batman isn't really a lycanthropic bat, Remilia isn't actually a devil), but it does give her wings. Also by RAW the vampire template can't be applied to a half-fiend, and hellfire blasts require the warlock to have a constitution score.

    One way to resolve the wings issue is to give her the fell flight invocation, and say that the wings are a result of her vampiric transformation, but aren't strong enough to actually allow her to fly. They could be one of the sources of her slam attack, since she attacks with them in the fighting games. This isn't my favourite way to go about it though...

    Edit:
    I now have a new houserule.
    Good man; that's what most people do anyway, I think .
    Last edited by Scarlet-Devil; 2010-12-26 at 08:57 PM.

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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Hmm, I did forget about the constitution requirement of Hellfire Warlock, but she pretty much can't be undead if she wants a powerful Eldritch Blast.

    I find it much more challenging to base abilities on class features or spells, because Magic Items are far more easier to make up on the fly.

    Title notwithstanding, I did always did feel that Remilia was closer to the original myth of the vampire as having diabolic ancestors than the typical modern-day vampire (who is afflicted by some sort of virus that makes them more good-looking).


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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet-Devil View Post
    Hmm, Vampire Paragon is a possibility, but I don't know if it actually adds anything that's distinctly 'Remilia'. Child Necromancer seems highly unnecessary; presumably, Remilia became a vampire when she was very young, hence never aging past loli-hood. I can't think of any evidence of her being a necromancer either, as she is not shown to have created undead (even by draining their blood, because of her light appetite) or done anything else necromancery.
    Necromancy doesn't consist entirely of undead creation. It even has healing spells. Gungnir could be Finger of Death.

    Here's a bunch of spells: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...sg8076#msg8076
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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Necromancy also has some pretty horrific and thematic spells, like Avasculate.

    "So, the loli girl hits you with a black ray of crackling energy."
    "What happens to me?"
    "Your blood explodes."

    Though I guess that's closer to something Flandre would do.


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    Default Re: An ambitious dream: Statting Touhou girls with 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by AslanCross View Post
    Necromancy also has some pretty horrific and thematic spells, like Avasculate.
    Automatically halve target's hp, and Fort vs stunning? YES.

    Necromancy also includes Amaterasu Blackfire.
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