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    Default [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    This is part of the d20 Rebirth project, a collection of rewrites and revamps aimed at extending the lifespan of 3.5e D&D and balancing core mechanics to provide a more functional, more fun, and more intuitive game.

    Other items in the d20 Rebirth project can be found under the d20r tag, or on my wiki.


    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Resolve 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
    1st +0 +1 +1 +2 Devotions, Inspire Courage +1, Lay on Hands, Orisons 2 2
    2nd +1 +1 +1 +3 Anima Beacon, Divine Resilience, Glare 3 3
    3rd +2 +2 +2 +3 Brief Blessing (Aid), Divine Health 4 4 2
    4th +3 +2 +2 +4 Cleansing Touch, Fearless, Zeal (Draw) 5 5 3
    5th +3 +3 +3 +4 Inspire Courage +2 5 5 4
    6th +4 +3 +3 +5 Brief Blessing (Reflex Saves) 6 5 4 2
    7th +5 +3 +3 +5 Zeal (Strand) 7 5 5 3
    8th +6/+1 +4 +4 +6 Inspire Greatness 8 5 5 4
    9th +6/+1 +4 +4 +6 Aura of Courage, Brief Blessing (Strength Boost) 8 5 5 4 2
    10th +7/+2 +5 +5 +7 Inspire Courage +3, Touch of Vitality, Zeal (Shield Other) 9 5 5 5 3
    11th +8/+3 +5 +5 +7 Concurrent Inspiration (Two Inspirations), Staredown 10 5 5 5 4
    12th +9/+4 +6 +6 +8 Brief Blessing (Blur) 11 5 5 5 4 2
    13th +9/+4 +6 +6 +8 Zeal (Divine Interdiction) 11 5 5 5 5 3
    14th +10/+5 +6 +6 +9 Inspire Heroics 12 5 5 5 5 4
    15th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +9 Brief Blessing (All Saves), Inspire Courage +4 13 5 5 5 5 4 2
    16th +12/+7/+2 +7 +7 +10 Zeal (Crisis of Faith) 14 5 5 5 5 5 3
    17th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +10 Aura of Greatness, Concurrent Inspiration (Three Inspirations) 14 5 5 5 5 5 4
    18th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +11 Aura of Heroics, Brief Blessing (Spell Resistance) 15 5 5 5 5 5 5
    19th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +11 Breath of Life, Zeal (Inviolability) 16 5 5 5 5 5 5
    20th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +12 Inspire Courage +5, True Devotion 17 5 5 5 5 5 5

    HD: d10

    Skills: A paladin is trained in the Priest and Warrior skill sets and is trained in one other set.

    Prowess: 4 per level.

    Proficiencies: Paladins are proficient with simple weapons plus any two weapon groups of their choosing. Paladins are also proficient with light, medium, and heavy armor, and with light, heavy, and tower shields.

    Resolve: A paladin is a being of resilience and determination, and their faith allows them to evince this conviction into protections for the paladin and his allies. Each day, the paladin receives a limited pool of resolve according to the table. He adds his Constitution modifier to this value to determine his full daily resolve. Many paladin features are powered by resolve, so a paladin must sometimes be sparing in his use of it. In a similar vein, if an ally falls in combat at the hands of an enemy, the paladin immediately regains one resolve, up to his full normal daily allotment. A paladin recovers resolve at the same time he recovers his daily allotment of spells (see "Spellcasting", below).

    Inspire Courage (Su): A paladin can inspire divinely influenced courage in his allies. As a swift action, he may spend 1 resolve and select an ally within 60': the target gains a divine bonus on attack rolls and on saves against Fear effects. The target also receives double that amount as a divine bonus on damage rolls. Both these effects last until the end of the encounter.

    The bonus starts at +1 at first level and increases every five paladin levels (to +2 at 5th, +3 at 10th, +4 at 15th, and +5 at 20th).

    Lay on Hands (Su): A paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds by touch. Each day he can heal a total number of Hit Points of damage equal to his paladin level multiplied by his Charisma bonus. He adds his Hero Value to this total. A paladin may choose to divide his healing among multiple recipients, and he doesn't have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action.

    Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to deal radiant damage. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The paladin decides how many of his daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching a creature.

    A paladin recovers points of lay on hands at the same time he recovers his daily allotment of spells (see "Spellcasting", below).

    Orisons (Sp): A paladin knows a number of 0th level cleric spells (orisons) equal to their Charisma modifier. These spells are usable as spell-like abilities at will. Should a paladin receive a temporary Charisma adjustment (such as from natural insight), he does not learn new orisons; however, a permanent adjustment (such as from leveling up) allows him to learn additional orisons.

    Spellcasting: A paladin casts divine spells, which are drawn from the paladin spell list plus spells within the Healing domain and within his selected devotions. He must prepare spells before casting them. To prepare or cast a spell, a paladin must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell's level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a paladin's spell is 10 + the spell level + the paladin's Charisma modifier.

    Like other spellcasters, a paladin can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on the class table. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.

    He can cast any spell he has prepared at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. For example, a 3rd level paladin can prepare four 1st level and two 2nd level spells. He can cast 1st level spells four times and 2nd level spells two times in the course of the day. He might end up using the same 1st level spell four times, or one 1st level spell two times and another 1st level spell two times, or any combination that adds up to four uses of any of his 1st level spells. If a paladin knows any metamagic feats, he applies them to his spells when he prepares his spells for the day.

    A paladin does not provoke an attack of opportunity when casting a spell as long as he has Resolve greater than or equal to his Hero Value remaining.

    A paladin may recover spell slots by spending an hour in meditation or prayer, and may only do so once a day.

    Prepared Spells: A paladin prepares a limited number of spells of each level: he may cast these spells spontaneously as long as he has spell slots capable of casting them. Use the table below to determine how many spells a paladin may prepare of each level. He also receives an additional preparation slot at each level (indicated by a "+1" on the table below): he must prepare a spell from the Healing domain in this slot. A paladin does not receive additional preparation slots for having a high Charisma score.

    A Paladin may change his prepared spells when he recovers his spell slots.

    Level 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
    1 2+1 - - - - -
    2 2+1 - - - - -
    3 3+1 1+1 - - - -
    4 3+1 2+1 - - - -
    5 4+1 2+1 - - - -
    6 4+1 2+1 1+1 - - -
    7 5+1 3+1 1+1 - - -
    8 5+1 3+1 2+1 - - -
    9 6+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - -
    10 6+1 4+1 2+1 1+1 - -
    11 6+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 - -
    12 6+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 -
    13 6+1 5+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 -
    14 6+1 5+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 -
    15 6+1 5+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 -
    16 6+1 6+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1
    17 6+1 6+1 5+1 4+1 3+1 1+1
    18 6+1 6+1 5+1 4+1 3+1 2+1
    19 6+1 6+1 5+1 4+1 3+1 2+1
    20 6+1 6+1 6+1 5+1 4+1 2+1

    Devotions: A paladin chooses two domains from the following list: Courage, Fear, Glory, Might, Protection, and War. While they do not gain the domain powers of those domains, they do gain access to the spells associated with them.

    Anima Beacon: At second level, a paladin receives the Anima Beacon style feat as a bonus feat.

    Divine Resilience (Su): Starting at second level, a paladin adds his Constitution modifier to all his saving throws as a divine bonus.

    Glare (Ex): Starting at second level, enemies within 10' of the paladin take a -3 morale penalty to attack and damage rolls against the paladin's allies. Unlike most similar effects, this ability does not apply against attacks made against the paladin, just against his associates.

    Brief Blessing (Su): Starting at third level, when a paladin casts a single-target spell with the Healing descriptor or uses his Lay on Hands ability, he may also cast aid as a spell-like ability on the targeted creature, using his class level as his caster level and requiring no action.

    Every three paladin levels thereafter, the paladin gains additional options to substitute in place of the aid spell-like ability, as notated here: At sixth level, he may instead grant a divine bonus to the target's Reflex saves equal to one-third his class level. At ninth level, he may instead grant a divine bonus to the target's Strength score equal to his Constitution modifier. At twelfth level, he may instead cast blur as a spell-like ability on the targeted creature, using his class level as his caster level and requiring no action. At fifteenth level, he may instead grant a divine bonus to all of the target's saving throws equal to one-third his class level. At eighteenth level, he may instead grant the target spell resistance equal to his class level plus his Hero Value.

    All of these effects have a maximum duration in rounds equal to either the paladin's Charisma modifier or the amount healed, whichever is lower.

    Divine Health (Su): At third level, a paladin gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases. He also adds his Hero Value to his maximum Hit Points.

    Cleansing Touch (Su): At fourth level, a paladin may spend some of his Lay on Hands healing to remove status effects from allies. Using Lay on Hands in this fashion does not trigger Brief Blessing. Consult the following table to determine how many points of healing must be spent to remove a particular status condition:
    Status Effect Healing Cost
    Ability Damaged 10 points per point of ability damage to heal
    Blind 15 points
    Charmed 10 points
    Compulsion 20 points
    Confused 30 points
    Cowering 5 points
    Dazed 10 points
    Dazzled 1 point
    Deafened 5 points
    Entangled 10 points
    Exhausted 20 points
    Fatigued 10 points
    Frightened 10 points
    Immobilized 15 points
    Nauseated 20 points
    Panicked 25 points
    Paralyzed 40 points
    Petrified 50 points
    Shaken 5 points
    Sickened 10 points
    Stunned 30 points
    Unconscious1 10 points
    1This ability is not usable on a creature that is unconscious due to negative Hit Points--merely on one that has been rendered unconscious due to a spell or effect (like sleep).

    Fearless (Ex): Starting at fourth level, a paladin is able to draw into their well of resolve to shake off that which terrifies lesser men. As long as the paladin has at least one point of resolve remaining, he is immune to Fear effects.

    Zeal (Su): Starting at fourth level, a paladin gains the ability to invoke his determination and use it to hamper his foes. Using Zeal is a swift action and uses a saving throw (where appropriate) of 10 + Hero Value + Constitution modifier. He gains new uses for his Zeal ability every three paladin levels thereafter.

    Draw: At fourth level, a paladin may spend one resolve to force an opponent within 60' to make a Will save or attempt to close with him as its next move action. A creature affected by this ability is aware of its actions and will not unnecessarily endanger itself by stepping around terrain hazards or threatened areas as best it can. A creature who cannot close with the paladin (such as one that is paralyzed, has no movement speeds, or is immobilized) automatically succeeds on its saving throw.

    Strand: At seventh level, a paladin may spend one resolve to force an opponent within 60' to make a Fortitude save or be immobilized for one round.

    Shield Other: At tenth level, a paladin may spend one resolve and select one ally within 60'. As long as that ally remains within 60' of the paladin, the paladin takes half the damage the ally would have taken until the end of the encounter. If the ally steps out of range, the effect is suppressed until they return to within 60' of the paladin.

    Divine Interdiction: At thirteenth level, a paladin may spend one resolve and designate a 5' radius zone within 60': enemies must make a successful Will save to enter or attack into that zone. A creature that begins (wholly or partially) within the zone automatically passes the save, and a creature that passes the save is immune to that particular zone's effects. The zone remains for a number of rounds equal to the paladin's Charisma modifier or until the paladin creates another Divine Interdiction zone, whichever is first.

    Crisis of Faith: At sixteenth level, a paladin may spend 4 resolve to cast dispel magic (targeted version) as a spell-like ability on one target, substituting his class level for his caster level. The targeted creature also suffers a penalty to Armor Class, attack rolls, and damage rolls equal to the paladin's Charisma modifier for a number of rounds equal to the paladin's Constitution modifier. If the target has the ability to cast divine spells, they lose the ability to cast them for one round.

    Inviolability: At nineteenth level, a paladin may spend ten resolve and target one ally within 100'. A creature affected by this ability takes no Hit Point damage, and becomes immune to polymorphing, petrification, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, morale effects, disease, poison, stunning, sleep, paralysis, death effects, teleportation, banishment, sickening, nauseating, immobilization, and disintegration for one round. Any of these effects that are already affecting the targets are suppressed while this ability is active. A creature affected by this ability is surrounded by a coruscating aura of divine energies while it is active.

    Inspire Greatness (Su): Starting at eighth level, as a swift action, a paladin may spend one resolve and target an ally within 30'. The targeted ally gains two bonus temporary Hit Dice until the end of the encounter. These are Avatar Hit Dice, granting a total of 2d8 Hit Points, +1 Base Attack Bonus, +1 to saving throws, +1 Hero Value, and 8 prowess. They do not, however, grant additional feats, stat increases, or other features associated with Hit Dice. Multiple instances of bonus Hit Dice do not stack: only the greatest quantity applies.

    Aura of Courage (Su): Starting at ninth level, a paladin may spend a standard action and two resolve to create an aura of courage. This is a 30' radius aura effect, and all allies inside its bounds are affected as if by the paladin's Inspire Courage ability. This ability lasts until the end of the encounter.

    Touch of Vitality (Su): Starting at tenth level, the paladin's Lay on Hands feature improves: he may add his Hero Value to his class level when determining the number of hit points he can heal with Lay on Hands. He still adds his Hero Value to the total afterwards.

    Concurrent Inspiration (Ex): Starting at eleventh level, a paladin may spend one extra resolve when activating Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness, or Inspire Heroics: if he does so, he may also use Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness, or Inspire Heroics with the same action. It need not be the same inspiration, nor does it need to be the same target (so a paladin using this ability could spend three total resolve to use Inspire Greatness on one ally and Inspire Courage on another, all with one swift action).

    At seventeenth level, this ability improves to allow a paladin to spend an additional resolve when activating this ability: if he does so, he may purchase and use a third inspiration (so a paladin using this ability could spend six total resolve to use Inspire Greatness on one ally, Inspire Courage on another, and Inspire Heroics on a third, all with one swift action).

    Staredown (Ex): At eleventh level, the paladin's Glare ability improves: enemies within 30' of the paladin take a -5 morale penalty to attack and damage rolls against the paladin's allies. Unlike most similar effects, this ability does not apply against attacks made against the paladin, just against his associates.

    Inspire Heroics (Su): Starting at fourteenth level, as a swift action, a paladin may spend two resolve and target an ally within 30'. The targeted ally gains a +2 bonus to his Hero Value until the end of the encounter. Multiple instances of bonus Hero Value do not stack: only the greatest quantity applies.

    Aura of Greatness (Su): Starting at seventeenth level, a paladin may spend a standard action and two resolve to create an aura of greatness. This is a 30' radius aura effect, and all allies inside its bounds are affected as if by the paladin's Inspire Greatness ability. This ability lasts until the end of the encounter.

    Aura of Heroics (Su): Starting at eighteenth level, a paladin may spend a standard action and four resolve to create an aura of heroics. This is a 30' radius aura effect, and all allies inside its bounds are affected as if by the paladin's Inspire Heroics ability. This ability lasts until the end of the encounter.

    Breath of Life (Su): Starting at nineteenth level, the paladin's Lay on Hands feature improves: he may add twice his Hero Value to his class level when determining the number of hit points he can heal with Lay on Hands. He still adds his Hero Value to the total afterwards.

    True Devotion (Su): At twentieth level, a paladin becomes a being of resolute action. A paladin may use one resolve to act as if at full health regardless of his actual Hit Point total for one round as an immediate action. He can activate this immediate action even if flat-footed and in response to an attack that would render him below 0 HP. He also ignores any active negative status conditions as well. Each successive activation costs one more resolve per use (2 for the second round, 3 for the third, 4 for the fourth, etc.) until he spends a turn without activating this ability or dies. A paladin slain through non-Hit-Point means (such as a Death effect) is not shielded by this ability.

    3.5 Adaptation
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    The paladin has 4 skill points per level. His class skills are Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Religion), Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Swim, and Tumble. Remove the prowess line, and replace all instances of "Hero Value" with "half character level". Replace all instances of "radiant damage" with "positive energy damage". Replace all instances of "sacred bonus" with "divine/profane bonus" dependent upon the character's alignment. Give one ability from the Anima Beacon style feat tree per two levels, according to the progression of the feat's chart.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    I like. But I thought you were avoiding preparing spells?
    Avatar some unholy combination of Winthur and Gato Muerto's ideas.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    I was initially, but the individual preparation of spells per slot is really what bothers me ("why can I only cast fireball once before forgetting how to do it again"), and this method worked okay for the Spirit Shaman, so I decided to go with this format.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    I was initially, but the individual preparation of spells per slot is really what bothers me ("why can I only cast fireball once before forgetting how to do it again"), and this method worked okay for the Spirit Shaman, so I decided to go with this format.
    Hmm.. okay then.

    I was going to complain about Inspire Courage only being one target, but then I saw Aura of Courage.

    Touch of Vitality could be perhaps better worded: A paladin of 10th level or higher may add his Hero Value to his class level when determining the number of hit points he can heal with Lay on Hands. He still adds his Hero Value to the total afterwards.

    What if a paladin of 19th level or higher manages to get an HV above his level (unlikely, but might be possible)? Can he use Touch of Vitality instead of Breath of Life?

    Zeal (Inviolability) is at 19th on the table, but 20th in the text.

    EDIT: My Touch of Vitality change would mean that Breath of Life should read "instead of HV + class level, use twice class level" (but more eloquent).
    Last edited by Siosilvar; 2010-12-29 at 02:10 PM.
    Avatar some unholy combination of Winthur and Gato Muerto's ideas.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    With Concurrent Inspiration, can this be used to activate multiple auras as well? It doesn't look like it, but it could stand to be a bit more clear.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    Touch of Vitality could be perhaps better worded: A paladin of 10th level or higher may add his Hero Value to his class level when determining the number of hit points he can heal with Lay on Hands. He still adds his Hero Value to the total afterwards.
    Fixing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    What if a paladin of 19th level or higher manages to get an HV above his level (unlikely, but might be possible)? Can he use Touch of Vitality instead of Breath of Life?
    At this point, this isn't possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    Zeal (Inviolability) is at 19th on the table, but 20th in the text.
    Fixing...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAmishPirate View Post
    With Concurrent Inspiration, can this be used to activate multiple auras as well? It doesn't look like it, but it could stand to be a bit more clear.
    Nope, it only works with the listed abilities.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Wow...quite the overhaul indeed.

    • Interesting BAB...certainly emphasizes the point that this Paladin is less martial than the now-standard model. Perhaps an alternate class feature or PrCs will give those that want it a more aggressive focus (instead of being forced to multiclass)
    • Great use of the medium save progression here.
    • Hit die, Skills, and Prowess look good. If we do get a martial option for the Paladin, I'm assuming the Prowess would be bumped up to 6?
    • When selecting their proficiencies, can Paladin's choose exotic weapons?
    • You should probably move the description for Resolve to just under Prowess. I was reading Inspire Courage and I had no idea what Resolve was yet.
    • How many different bonus types do you want? I could see the bonuses from Inspire Courage being either Sacred or Morale bonuses as well. I'm just concerned about too many stackable buffs....but perhaps that is a concern when d20r gets to a beta phase.
    • Adding your Hero Value to the total healed by Lay on Hands seems like such a minor bonus. Even for multiclassed characters it'll only add between 10 and 20 points at level 20. Maybe you could substitute your Hero Value instead of your Paladin level if that were higher?
    • Also, Lay on Hand has some pretty impressive Nova abilities at later levels, especially after Touch of Vitality and Breath of Life are acquired. Easily 300+ damage by level 20. Perhaps a cap is needed on the amount of damage it can deal at once?
    • Does a Paladin learn new Orisons when his Charisma modifier increases through inherent bonuses? What about enhancement bonuses?
    • Does a Paladin need eight hours of rest to recover Resolve (or Lay on Hands)? How is a "day" determined? If a Paladin doesn't use any Resolve until 11 that night, does he regain Resolve at 12:01, at sunrise, or the next night at 11? Additionally, what constitutes an ally falling? negative HP, unconsciousness, death, etc?
    • I like how a casting Paladin can avoid AoOs.
    • Under Prepared spells it may make more sense to say "A Paladin may change his prepared spells when he recovers his spell slots."
    • Why must the extra prepared spell be from the Healing domain and not from one of their two Devotions? Just to emphasize the healing aspect of the Paladin a bit more? If so, I hope that healing spells are more useful in d20r.
    • Anima Beacon I haven't looked over yet, so no comment aside from the fact that...is this the only class to receive a Style feat? Feels a bit like you either shoehorn them into using it or it's a wasted class feature.
    • Divine Resilience is an interesting choice. I can understand wanting to make Constitution a bigger focus for the Paladin (one class that really feels like it could focus on that stat from a flavor perspective), but I personally think that Charisma still felt so perfect, as it was the faith of his belief that bolstered his saves, not his O-Chul-ness (though now that I'm saying that, maybe it works!)
    • Also, why is this a sacred bonus instead of divine? I feel like the class should choose one or the other and stick with it, unless you've got a specific reason for the two different bonuses.
    • From a tanking perspective I get why Glare only affects allies, but from a flavor perspective...enemies are less scared to smack the guy glaring at them? I do like that it's an Ex though. It might need to be a morale penalty, as creature immune to fear would likely be immune to angry staring.
    • I really like Brief Blessing, but the 6th level Ref bonus seems odd. I would think it would bolster Will if anything, but is feels lopsided. Maybe if he could choose which save to boost?
    • Additionally, once a character has Brief Blessing with 3 levels of Paladin, can they multiclass out of paladin and still get the upgrades? The already have the class feature, which doesn't specify class levels except for when it grants bonuses, which implies that you could have a Paladin 3/Warlord 15 giving out Spell Resistance, yes?
    • What happens when a Paladin cure an unconscious character with Lay on Hands that was in negative HP? (I know it's silly, but it should be answered)
    • Shield Other probably needs another duration, like the 5 minutes imposed by 4th edition, just to avoid arguments when dealing with extended encounters or back to back ones.
    • Divine Interdiction is interesting. I'd like it if a Paladin could spend more Resolve to increase it's size, or improve the DC, or add additional penalties.
    • The debuffs from Crisis of Faith apply regardless of the outcome of the Dispel Magic, yes?
    • If a creature affected by something like Dominate Person is hit with inviolability, is the Domination effect dispelled or merely suppressed for a round?
    • Seems a little odd that a Paladin can't target himself with Inviolability. I get that the class is supposed to be support, but this ability really feels like it should be able to shield the Paladin as well if needed.
    • Same question applies to Zeal as to Brief Blessing.
    • Do multiple instances of Inspire Greatness stack? Either from multiple Paladins, a single Paladin using Concurrent Inspiration, or a Paladin using both Inspire Greatness and Aura of Greatness. And if they do, you'll need to specify the change in BAB and saves wouldn't be a flat +1 for each instance.
    • Your example for the 17th level of Concurrent Inspiration would require 6 resolve, not 5.
    • Do multiple instances of Inspire Heroics from different Paladins or a Paladin using both Inspire Heroics and Aura of Heroics stack?
    • True Devotion probably needs a clause saying that he can activate it as a free or immediate action whenever he would drop below 1/0 hit points or if he would be incapacitated, dominated, etc. And can he activate it while he is unconscious, petrified, or otherwise incapacitated? If he is petrified, does he return to his fleshy self for the duration of the effect, or is he still a statue (important cause then he'd keep defenses like hardness)?


    I like it. Not nearly as much variability as your previous version, and it feels like the Holy Warrior angle is a bit toned down. But it feels like a solid support member of any party. And I'm sure you can make PrCs to increase the devote focus if desired.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Em... well, while you've made a mechanically viable character out of it, it only serves to beg the question, why not just play some weird bard/cleric multiclass? Looks more like a PrC to me.
    The fact of the matter is, when I play a paladin I don't want to go the inspire courage route, I want to go annihilate evil with my big pointy stick route. It's looking too ally-focused- whoever said a paladin shouldn't be a badass lone wolf?
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    A few questions:

    When does Resolve reset? Does it immediately come back the next morning? Or does a Paladin have to meditate as he does with spells?

    Can True Devotion be activated when in the negatives? If so, can it activated as an immediate action when HP dips too low or must it be activated on your turn?

    If you plan on a more martial variant would Defender's Gambit take the place of Anima Beacon.

    Seeing as how easy it is to pump up HV would there be a cap to how much damage a burst from a Lay on Hands blast deal? Just from a cursory glance a level 20 Paladin is capable of reaching the 300s with the Lay on Hands pool. And with even a medium BAB progression getting a touch attack in would be too easy. Perhaps a 2:1 or even a 3:1 rate would be more fitting. Something originally intended to heal should be slightly less suited for damage right?

    Also, this last question is more about the mechanics behind d20 Rebirth but with the investing in weapon groups why is there a Weapon Focus feat?

    EDIT:
    It's looking too ally-focused- whoever said a paladin shouldn't be a badass lone wolf?
    Well this Paladin can still strike it out on his own. With so many defenses, precautions, and panic buttons the Paladin is more likely to outlast anything. His Aura still counts himself as an 'ally' right? The 3.0 Paladin is a badass who shakes off anything that comes his way. Which is IMO the theme behind this class. A steadfast warrior whose inspires others to persevere. You can even construe his abilities as someone who is simply someone doing his part but by doing so he inspires others attempt to greater things. They hit harder, and more often because they know he's there watching their backs. You could think of it not as 'extending an aura' but as him emanating his presence.

    He's not the warlord, he doesn't command and lead. He just has a very powerful feeling about him. At least, that's how I view him. The 3.0 Paladin does have plenty of ally support skills though so I do know where you're coming from. I just think that's not all there is to the class.

    There are also plenty of Heroic Feats that amp up this paladins strengths too. And a medium to high HV can only serve this Paladin well.
    Last edited by Bad Situation; 2010-12-30 at 08:29 PM.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    [*]When selecting their proficiencies, can Paladin's choose exotic weapons?
    There are no exotic weapons, just weapon groups.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    You should probably move the description for Resolve to just under Prowess. I was reading Inspire Courage and I had no idea what Resolve was yet.
    Probably.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    How many different bonus types do you want? I could see the bonuses from Inspire Courage being either Sacred or Morale bonuses as well. I'm just concerned about too many stackable buffs....but perhaps that is a concern when d20r gets to a beta phase.
    Typo. Sacred/profane are all now divine.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Adding your Hero Value to the total healed by Lay on Hands seems like such a minor bonus. Even for multiclassed characters it'll only add between 10 and 20 points at level 20. Maybe you could substitute your Hero Value instead of your Paladin level if that were higher?
    Five points can mean a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Also, Lay on Hand has some pretty impressive Nova abilities at later levels, especially after Touch of Vitality and Breath of Life are acquired. Easily 300+ damage by level 20. Perhaps a cap is needed on the amount of damage it can deal at once?
    It does, but that also means you can't get easy Brief Blessings the rest of the day, nor can you do healing without spellcasting, so I don't know if I'm concerned.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Does a Paladin learn new Orisons when his Charisma modifier increases through inherent bonuses? What about enhancement bonuses?
    Yes. I thought the text covered that.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Does a Paladin need eight hours of rest to recover Resolve (or Lay on Hands)? How is a "day" determined? If a Paladin doesn't use any Resolve until 11 that night, does he regain Resolve at 12:01, at sunrise, or the next night at 11? Additionally, what constitutes an ally falling? negative HP, unconsciousness, death, etc?
    Nope, just rest. And I'll clarify that.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Why must the extra prepared spell be from the Healing domain and not from one of their two Devotions? Just to emphasize the healing aspect of the Paladin a bit more? If so, I hope that healing spells are more useful in d20r.
    Yes, and they will be.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Anima Beacon I haven't looked over yet, so no comment aside from the fact that...is this the only class to receive a Style feat? Feels a bit like you either shoehorn them into using it or it's a wasted class feature.
    No. Fencer gets Brave Fencer, Dreadnaught gets Defender's Gambit, Warlord gets Leader's Obligation...
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Divine Resilience is an interesting choice. I can understand wanting to make Constitution a bigger focus for the Paladin (one class that really feels like it could focus on that stat from a flavor perspective), but I personally think that Charisma still felt so perfect, as it was the faith of his belief that bolstered his saves, not his O-Chul-ness (though now that I'm saying that, maybe it works!)
    I didn't want to make them entirely CHA dependent.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    From a tanking perspective I get why Glare only affects allies, but from a flavor perspective...enemies are less scared to smack the guy glaring at them? I do like that it's an Ex though. It might need to be a morale penalty, as creature immune to fear would likely be immune to angry staring.
    I basically stripped the text from Iron Guard's Glare, but I think it works. A morale penalty may be appropriate.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    I really like Brief Blessing, but the 6th level Ref bonus seems odd. I would think it would bolster Will if anything, but is feels lopsided. Maybe if he could choose which save to boost?
    Reflex saves are the ones most commonly associated with immediate damage. Shielding that, then, is key for a good paladin.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Additionally, once a character has Brief Blessing with 3 levels of Paladin, can they multiclass out of paladin and still get the upgrades? The already have the class feature, which doesn't specify class levels except for when it grants bonuses, which implies that you could have a Paladin 3/Warlord 15 giving out Spell Resistance, yes?
    No, just like how you stop progressing sneak attack if you class out of rogue.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    What happens when a Paladin cure an unconscious character with Lay on Hands that was in negative HP? (I know it's silly, but it should be answered)
    I'll answer that.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Shield Other probably needs another duration, like the 5 minutes imposed by 4th edition, just to avoid arguments when dealing with extended encounters or back to back ones.
    "End of encounter" will be defined in global game rules as "five minutes".
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Divine Interdiction is interesting. I'd like it if a Paladin could spend more Resolve to increase it's size, or improve the DC, or add additional penalties.
    I could see that.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    The debuffs from Crisis of Faith apply regardless of the outcome of the Dispel Magic, yes?
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    If a creature affected by something like Dominate Person is hit with inviolability, is the Domination effect dispelled or merely suppressed for a round?
    Suppressed. Technically, it's still there and active, but the inviolable character isn't affected by it.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Seems a little odd that a Paladin can't target himself with Inviolability. I get that the class is supposed to be support, but this ability really feels like it should be able to shield the Paladin as well if needed.
    And why can't it? A paladin is his own ally.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Do multiple instances of Inspire Greatness stack?
    No.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Your example for the 17th level of Concurrent Inspiration would require 6 resolve, not 5.
    Will fix.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    True Devotion probably needs a clause saying that he can activate it as a free or immediate action whenever he would drop below 1/0 hit points or if he would be incapacitated, dominated, etc. And can he activate it while he is unconscious, petrified, or otherwise incapacitated? If he is petrified, does he return to his fleshy self for the duration of the effect, or is he still a statue (important cause then he'd keep defenses like hardness)?
    Will add.

    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    I like it. Not nearly as much variability as your previous version, and it feels like the Holy Warrior angle is a bit toned down.
    Sort of. There's no reason he can't Inspire/buff himself and divine gish it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    The fact of the matter is, when I play a paladin I don't want to go the inspire courage route, I want to go annihilate evil with my big pointy stick route. It's looking too ally-focused- whoever said a paladin shouldn't be a badass lone wolf?
    There's no reason he can't Inspire/buff himself and divine gish it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Situation View Post
    When does Resolve reset? Does it immediately come back the next morning? Or does a Paladin have to meditate as he does with spells?
    I'll note it refreshes with spells.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Situation View Post
    Seeing as how easy it is to pump up HV would there be a cap to how much damage a burst from a Lay on Hands blast deal?
    I've actually decided to be more stringent with HV augments, so it's not quite that easy anymore. Still, I don't know if the LoH nuke is that big a deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Situation View Post
    Also, this last question is more about the mechanics behind d20 Rebirth but with the investing in weapon groups why is there a Weapon Focus feat?
    So you can do both?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Situation View Post
    They hit harder, and more often because they know he's there watching their backs. You could think of it not as 'extending an aura' but as him emanating his presence.
    Exactly, he's the linebacker.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    Sort of. There's no reason he can't Inspire/buff himself and divine gish it up.
    No, there's not, but he's still going to be a subpar solo fighter. You've made this a class with several abilities that are ally-dependent.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    I've actually decided to be more stringent with HV augments, so it's not quite that easy anymore. Still, I don't know if the LoH nuke is that big a deal.
    For me it's not just about Hero Value but more because Touch of Vitality and Breath of Life add to class level, a Paladin with a sufficiently high Charsima score (and there's no reason not to have a high score) can ramp up a large amount of LoH pool.

    It's not really a problem though, at level 20 300+ damage isn't gamebreaking at all, and I think the Cleansing Touch effects are more important than the nuke. But damage for an ability that has its roots in healing just nags at me. It's a personal problem rather than any sort of mechanical issue.
    Last edited by Bad Situation; 2010-12-30 at 09:29 PM.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    Typo. Sacred/profane are all now divine.
    Cool. So then the sacred bonus from Divine Resilience needs to be changed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    Five points can mean a lot.
    Normally I'd agree, but Lay on Hands is working with multipliers. Having a Charisma mod of +4 or 5 is easy as pie, so you're looking at quite a big number, where that Hero Value will usually be an extra 10% or less. I mean, it'll make a difference, but I doubt it will be very noticeable. Letting you replace your class level with your Hero Value will let Lay on Hands retain some decent use for multiclass characters, or ones that PrC, at higher levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    It does, but that also means you can't get easy Brief Blessings the rest of the day, nor can you do healing without spellcasting, so I don't know if I'm concerned.
    Fair enough. It just seems like an easy nova option that doesn't require pretty much any effort to get. Get your hand on the BBEG or his Dragon or whatever, and boom they're dead or near to it. I think that'd be worth the loss of the Brief Blessing, if you're cutting multiple rounds off the combat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    Yes. I thought the text covered that.
    OK, but what happens when the Paladin takes off his Cloak of Charisma? Or the Eagle's Splendor ends? Does he forget one of the Orisons? Does he choose which one to lose, or does he lose one at random? What happens when he takes ability damage/drain?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    Reflex saves are the ones most commonly associated with immediate damage. Shielding that, then, is key for a good paladin.
    Ok. I still think it feels a little strange, but I can understand that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    No, just like how you stop progressing sneak attack if you class out of rogue.
    Except that a rogue's Sneak Attack specifies that you only gain the extra damage with additional rogue levels. Whereas Breif Blessing simple says "At nth level."
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    And why can't it? A paladin is his own ally.
    Ahh, ok then. for some reason I always operate under the assumption that ally automatically implies someone other than yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    No.
    Ok. You may want to clarify that, since there is no reason for it not to under the current rules.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Ahh, ok then. for some reason I always operate under the assumption that ally automatically implies someone other than yourself.
    I believe this is the official assumption used in most WotC books- I remember seeing at least one ability or spell or something that only affected allies and simply said "all allies X". I'd strongly advise you add clarification- it's done with the bard.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    It just seems odd that a Paladin has a 3/4 BAB, as every definition I've ever seen of one pretty much defines a person who can go toe-to-toe with the forces of evil, and put foot to arse for truth, justice, and apple pie.

    Granted, they've got a lot of support potential, making 3.5 bards green with envy (although at least they cannot go DFI, although +2 damage per bonus to attack really offsets this), but I'd have thought they would have been a full BAB class.

    Other than that, looks pretty cool, although I'm not a big fan of the 3.5 spellcasting system in general. I'd have much rather given them some other method of duplicating some of the effects, rather than giving them casting. I know I'd trade out casting for a full BAB on this particular class.

    You also don't list what spell list they can draw from, unless it was referred to somewhere else. I saw the Devotions, which gives access to a couple of lists, plus the healing domain as a given (which means they can eventually cast Heal), but it didn't mention what other lists they can draw from. Considering he can have up to six spells Prepared, plus healing domain, and the two devotions only give them access to two per level, I'm assuming there are others he can draw from as well.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    The very first sentence of the Spellcasting entry refers to the Paladin spell list (which obviously isn't included here).
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    The very first sentence of the Spellcasting entry refers to the Paladin spell list (which obviously isn't included here).
    Ahh, I was looking at Prepared spells, rather than Spellcasting, to try and find what spells he could prepare. Looking in the wrong places will generally result in not finding what you are looking for.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Worth noting for the Cleansing touch numbers: None of those are mathmatically proven currently. If someone could come up with an accurate model of how powerful each condition is, it'd be awesome . Otherwise, we have to guesstimate, and by the looks of things those numbers "feel right" to most people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    I believe this is the official assumption used in most WotC books- I remember seeing at least one ability or spell or something that only affected allies and simply said "all allies X". I'd strongly advise you add clarification- it's done with the bard.
    The default WotC assumption in 3.5 is you are your own ally (this was a huge problem with Tome of Battle before, especially with White Raven Tactics on yourself).
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Gralamin View Post
    The default WotC assumption in 3.5 is you are your own ally (this was a huge problem with Tome of Battle before, especially with White Raven Tactics on yourself).
    ...But the wording on WRT is "an ally", and I'm pretty sure it doesn't affect yourself. Does it?
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Yes, it does. You are your own ally. The errata for ToB (which got mangled in some copyediting and therefore doesn't actually exist) is rumored to have contained an officialization of a CustServ answer in which WRT targets "an ally other than yourself".

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    Yes, it does. You are your own ally. The errata for ToB (which got mangled in some copyediting and therefore doesn't actually exist) is rumored to have contained an officialization of a CustServ answer in which WRT targets "an ally other than yourself".
    Well then, I strongly advise you add in clarification as WotC did with the bard's music.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    No, there's not, but he's still going to be a subpar solo fighter. You've made this a class with several abilities that are ally-dependent.
    Really? All his inspirations apply to himself. His Brief Blessing also can apply to himself, and his spellcasting is buff/heal-centric. Plus, if he invests into Anima Beacon, his anima can ride on him and provide him a bunch of buffs while debuffing his opponents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    Well then, I strongly advise you add in clarification as WotC did with the bard's music.
    Why? The game rules already indicate that you are your own ally.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    Why? The game rules already indicate that you are your own ally.
    Because it creates confusion. I'm not the only one who thought that.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    Why? The game rules already indicate that you are your own ally.
    You shouldn't define a term once and expect the player or DM to remember it every last time it comes up -- this isn't programming; sometimes it's a good idea to repeat yourself.

    If this comes up in play and the DM doesn't know the answer, she won't look for it in the books or on the internet. She'll make a snap judgement. I don't know about you, but IME, DM snap judgements err on the restrictive side almost as often as 'RAW' interpretations err on the permissive.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Class] The Paladin, v3.0

    Quote Originally Posted by lesser_minion View Post
    You shouldn't define a term once and expect the player or DM to remember it every last time it comes up -- this isn't programming; sometimes it's a good idea to repeat yourself.

    If this comes up in play and the DM doesn't know the answer, she won't look for it in the books or on the internet. She'll make a snap judgement. I don't know about you, but IME, DM snap judgements err on the restrictive side almost as often as 'RAW' interpretations err on the permissive.
    Especially when the word's general meaning typically implies someone other than yourself.
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