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    Default [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    For quite a while, I was looking around for a class that manipulated magic on the fly. The core classes were much too fixed for the concept I was chasing. I poked around and found some things that lead me in a mechanical direction, but individually were lacking (epic spellcasting, Chaos Mage). So after significant work, many rewrites, even more work, forgetting about it, finding it again, messing with it heavily, and just a little (lot) more work, I think I've finally put something together that might be alright to put up on these boards to have looked at.

    so....here goes nothing!


    Spellshaper

    Str, Dex, Con, Cha important
    Often Chaotic
    D8 hit die
    Proficient with light armor
    Proficient with all simple weapons and 2 martial or one exotic.
    Characters my not cross-class into this if they already have levels in any other class.
    Class Skills: Bluff (cha), Craft (wis), Decipher Script (int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana, nature, religion, the planes) (int), Profession (wis), Sense Motive (wis), Speak Language, Spellcraft (int), Use Magic Device (cha)
    Spellshapers gain 4+int skill points each level (x4 at first level)

    Spellshaper
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Spellshaping, Starting Shapes, Charge, Minor Magic

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Lesser Arcane Senses, Talents

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Talent Attunement

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Quick Recovery

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Talent Attunement

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |

    8th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Talent Attunement

    9th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Arcane Senses

    10th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Talent Attunement

    11th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Greater Spellshaping

    12th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Talent Attunement

    13th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |

    14th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |Talent Attunement

    15th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Speedy Recovery

    16th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Talent Attunement

    17th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Greater Arcane Sight

    18th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Talent Attunement

    19th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |

    20th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Talent Attunement[/table]

    Abilities
    Spoiler
    Show
    Spellshaping: To shape a spell, a Spellshaper must make a spellshaping check. A spellshaping check is similar to a skill check, but uses the formula 1d20+level+Cha modifier. The DC is determined at the time of casting, using the base for the shaping, increased as the Spellshaper sees fit. This is a supernatural ability.

    Every time a spell is shaped, a fortitude save must be made with a DC equal to the Spellshaping DC of that spell. If this save is failed by 5 or more, move down one step on the condition track, then take damage based on how much you failed by. If the failure is by ten or more, move down two steps. Each additional multiple of 10 failed by moves the condition down another step. This damage can be healed magically, though not by the Spellshaper herself. The unconsciousness cannot be magically repaired save for Limited Wish, Wish and Miracle, which can remove all remaining time of unconsciousness.


    Every time you take an amount of subdual damage greater than your level + your charisma modifier from failing a spellshaping fortitude save, you become sickened until the end of your next round. If you take more than twice this amount, you are instead nauseated until the end of your next turn.

    Spellshaping often looks wildly different between Spellshapers, even when using the same shapings. Each Spellshaper has their own manifestation of the actual shaping process, though all are obvious that the spellshaper is doing something. One might clap her hands together, energies crackling around her arms. Another might hold up one hand, and have runic designs appear in the air around the outstretched limb. It could even be the Spellshaper standing stock-still with a thrumming noise emanating from his body. The manifestation can’t be nothing, or only perceivable through unusual methods.

    Starting Spellshapes: At first level, a Spellshaper selects a number of Shapings equal to twice her Cha modifier, plus two. Thus, a Spellshaper with a Charisma of 16 would select eight shapings (six from double the +3 modifier, plus another two). These don’t have to be connected in any way, though some Spellshapers do specialize in certain elements.

    Charge: A Spellshaper can store mystical energy in her body for use to ease spellshaping checks. This takes the form of points of charge. Each point of charge can be expended as part of a spellshaping check to give the Spellshaper a +1 bonus to her spellshaping check and fortitude save. A Spellshaper may hold an amount of charge equal to half her level plus her Cha modifier for a number of minutes equal to her Cha score. The duration is not reset each time the Spellshaper gains more charge. Any charge beyond the Spellshaper’s normal limit dissipates at the end of the Spellshaper’s next round. A spellshaper with stored charge above her Cha modifier produces a swirling aura, producing light of torch brightness. A Spellshaper also detects as magical, with an effective spell level of half the amount of charge stored.

    Minor Magic: A Spellshaper is attuned to magic such that small tricks are second-nature to her. A Spellshaper may use Prestidigitation and a number of other cantrips or orisions (other than cure minor wounds) equal to her intelligence modifier as supernatural abilities at will. Any duration of these effects can be no more than 10 minutes instead of their normal time(except for things that are normally permanent, like cleaning with prestidigitation).

    Lesser Arcane Senses: At second level, a Spellshaper can begin to see magical auras everywhere, gaining the ability to detect magic auras at all times as though during the third round of concentration using Detect Magic. You can pick out individual auras and differentiate between similar auras with a round of concentration. This ability can be intentionally suppressed if desired, and is a swift action to deactivate or reactivate.

    Talents: At second level and beyond, a Spellshaper has access to a number of talents (from the list below) equal to half her level plus her Cha modifier. She can attune and make available to herself a number of talents equal to half her level with one hour of meditation. Thus, a fourth level Spellshaper with a Cha of 16 knows 5 talents, and can attune to 2 of them. There is no limit to how often a spellshaper can reattune to her talents.

    Quick Recovery: After experiencing magical energies rush through her body enough times, a Spellshaper starts to become inured to the strain. From fifth level onward, a spellshaper heals back subdual damage from spellshaping every 30 minutes, rather than every hour. She also gains a bonus to her Spellshaping fortitude saves equal to 1/5 her class level.

    Arcane Senses: At ninth level, a Spellshaper’s ability to see magical auras increases yet further, gaining the benefits similar to Arcane Sight at all times. You can detect and identify any creature with spellcasting or spell-like abilities (or psionics, meldshaping, shadowcasting, etc.) without needing to concentrate on individuals, as well as being able to discern the type of ability. This ability can be intentionally suppressed if desired, and is a swift action to deactivate or reactivate.

    Greater Spellshaping: At eleventh level, a Spellshaper gains the potent ability to replicate spells she has seen. After identifying a spell or spell-like ability with the spellcraft skill, the spell is stored. At any time afterward, the Spellshaper may attempt to replicate it with a DC 20+3xspell level Spellshaping check. Make a Fortitude save against this DC as normal. If the Spellshaping check is successful, the spell’s effects occur normally (though as a supernatural ability), with the Spellshaper’s class level as her effective caster level. Each spell can only be attempted to be cast once, and must be seen and re-identified if the Spellshaper would like to cast the same spell again. A Spellshaper can only remember a number of spells equal to half her Int modifier.

    Speedy Recovery: After fifteen levels, a Spellshaper has become even more attuned to the mystical energies she conducts. She now heals back subdual damage from spellshaping every ten minutes, rather than half an hour. The bonus to her spellshaping fortitude saves increases to +1 every four levels instead of five.

    Greater Arcane Sight: Something about seeing through illusions, identifying magic items and recognizing creatures in disguise/shapeshifted. Probably.


    Talents
    Spoiler
    Show
    ─ Additional Shapings (gain Shapings equal to your Cha modifier-1)
    ─ Additional Talent Attunement (You can attune to an additional talent)
    ─ Overcharge (Hold charge as though your Cha was two points higher)
    -filler-└ Supercharge (Hold charge as though your Cha was two more points higher)
    ─ Dynamo (Make Spellshaping check as standard action to gain a point of charge, DC: current held charge squared)
    ─ SR 6+class level
    -filler-└ SR 11+class level
    -filler--filler-└ SR 16+class level
    ─ Consume Charges (Expend one charge from a wand or a single use-item to gain charge equal to spell level)
    -filler-└ Drain Item (Draw on magic from item, gain charges based on caster level, with chance to ruin item)
    ─ Absorb Persistent Magic (opposed caster level check against spell with duration to gain points of charge equal to spell level)
    -filler-└ Absorb Offensive Spell (readied action to absorb spell with instantaneous duration)
    ─ Spell Failure Aura (5'/level aura causes arcane spell failure chance for all casters in area, gain charge equal to half spell level of all spells that fail)
    -filler-└ Spell Feedback (if spells fail to your aura, casters take damage based on spell level)
    -filler--filler-└ Magic Seizure (burst causes all spells and magic items deal damage to their possessors based on their spell level)
    -filler-└ Magic Failure Aura (Spell failure aura affects spell like abilities, psionics, etc.)
    ─ Elemental Focus (immediately exchange any number of shapings for shapings of certain element)
    -filler-└ Elemental Specialization (all shapings of specific element have their Dcs reduced by 2)
    -filler--filler-└ Elemental Creativity (gain enhancements related to your element to use with spellshapings)
    ─ Channel Spell (‘catch’ spell cast by an ally, redirect it from you)
    -filler-└ Enhance Spell (Spell caught can be enhanced with your reshapings, etc.)
    -filler-└ Hijack Spell (Catch enemies' spells, return them)
    ─ Spontaneous Potion (create temporary potion, may not come out quite right)
    ─ Weapon Enhancement (imbue weapon with magic, may break weapon)
    -filler-└ Spellstrike (Channel shapings through weapon strike)
    -filler--filler-└ Weapon Channel (Use weapon enhancements on spellshaping checks)
    ─ Hide Manifestation (spellshape without giving it away)
    ─ Hide Charge (disguise buildup of magical energy)
    ─ Hybrid Shaping (use two shapings at the same time at increased difficulty)
    ─ Reshape: Line (change area of shaping to line)
    -filler-└ Reshape: Chain (shaping arcs between targets)
    ─ Reshape: Cone (change area of shaping to cone)
    ─ Reshape: Burst (change area to shaping to a burst)
    ─ Reshape: Spread (change area to shaping to a cloud)
    ─ Reshape: Patches (change area to shaping to several small areas)
    ─ Reshape: Aura (change area to shaping to adjacent squares)
    ─ Reshape: Strike (change area to shaping to melee touch attack)
    -filler-└ Reshape: Weapon (change area to shaping to summoned weapon)
    -filler-└ Reshape: Charge (change area into a melee touch attack at the end of a dash)
    ─ Accelerate Shaping (Use shaping as move action)
    -filler-└ Quicken Shaping (use shaping as a swift action)
    ─ Skilled Imitation (make replicating spells with Greater Spellshaping easier)



    Elements and Shapings
    Spoiler
    Show
    Acid:
    Acid Spray
    Base DC: 11
    Range: 30'+5'/2 points
    Effect: One jet of Acid
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Save: No
    You fire a jet of acid at the target, dealing 1d6 points of acid damage. It deals an additional 1d6 for every 2 points you increase the DC by.

    Arcana:
    Eldritch Wave
    Base DC: 12
    Range: 60'+5'/2 points
    Effect: One beam of Eldritch energy
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Save: No
    You shoot a ray of energy at the target, dealing 1d8 points of untyped damage. It deals an additional 1d8 for every 4 points you increase the DC by.

    Death:
    Dread Visage
    Base DC:


    Fauna:

    Fire:
    Ember
    Base DC: 11
    Range: 30'+5'/2 points
    Effect: One burst of Fire
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Save: No
    You fire a jet of flame at the target, dealing 1d6 points of fire damage. It deals an additional 1d6 for every 2 points you increase the DC by.

    Flora:

    Force:
    Power Beam
    Base DC: 11
    Range: 60'+5'/2 points
    Effect: One shot of Force energy
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Save: No
    You fire a bolt of Force energy at the target, dealing 1d4 points of Force damage. It deals an additional 1d4 for every 2 points you increase the DC by.

    On Strings
    Base DC: 12
    Range: 30'+5'/2 points
    Target: One or many unattended objects
    Duration: 1 round+1 round per 2 points
    With a gesture, a collection of stones, weapons, or other unattended random debris animates under your control. You can control 10 pounds of material, plus an additional 10 pounds per point you increase the DC. The pile can move and attack with a swift action (mental) from you, at a rate of 30', and an attack bonus equal to yours. It has an effective strength bonus equal to 10+1 per 10 pounds animated, and deals 1d6+1d6 per 50 pounds of a type appropriate to its material. It has 1 hitpoint per pound, and hardness as material. Its AC is 10+your Cha modifier.

    Ice:
    Ice Beam
    Base DC: 11
    Range: 30'+5'/2 points
    Effect: One burst of Ice
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Save: No
    You fire a spray of ice at the target, dealing 1d6 points of ice damage. It deals an additional 1d6 for every 2 points you increase the DC by.

    Life:
    Mighty Blow
    Base DC: 10
    Range: Personal
    Effect: Sudden strength increase
    Duration: 1 round+1 round per 3 points
    Save: Fort negates (see text)
    You channel magical energy into your muscles, dramatically increasing your strength temporarily. Every point you increase the DC by increases your strength score by 1. As long as the shaping is active, you may make unarmed strikes without provoking attacks of opportunity, and all such attacks will knock back subjects 1 foot per point of damage you deal (fort negates).

    Spirit Barrier
    Base DC: 12
    Range: Touch
    Effect: Subject gains Temporary Hitpoints
    Duration: 1 minute+1 minute per 2 points
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
    Save: Fortitude Negates (harmless)
    With a touch, the subject gains a number of temporary hitpoints equal to your Cha modifier for 1 minute. You can increase the temporary hitpoints by your Cha modifier by increasing the DC by 2 each time. The duration can be increased by 1 minute for each 2 points you increase the DC by.

    Troll Blood
    Base DC: 12
    Range: Touch
    Effect: subject gains fast healing
    Duration: 1 round+1 per 1 point
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
    Save: Fortitude Negates (harmless)
    The subject gains fast healing 1, for one round. The rate of healing can be increased at a rate of 1 per 2 points the DC is increased by.

    Light:
    Lucent Beam
    Base DC: 11
    Range: 30'+5'/2 points
    Effect: One line of light
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Save: No
    You shoot a beam of light at the target, dealing 1d4 points of damage. It deals an additional 1d4 for every 2 points you increase the DC by. Against undead or fungus, it deals d8s instead.

    Flash Step
    Base DC: 10
    Range: Self Only
    Effect: one or more accelerated movements
    Action: Swift
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Your body flickers and you reappear some distance away, ready to leap again. This shaping grants you an amount of near-instantaneous movement to anywhere you have range and line of effect to. You gain 5 ft to start, and each additional 5 ft increases the DC by 2.

    Lightning:
    Shock
    Base DC: 11
    Range: 30'+5'/2 points
    Effect: One arc of Electricity
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Save: No
    You release a bolt of electricity at the target, dealing 1d6 points of electricity damage. It deals an additional 1d6 for every 2 points you increase the DC by.

    Lightning’s Heart
    Base DC: 12
    Range: Personal
    Effect: Subject accelerates, gains extra actions
    Duration: 1 round+1 per 2 points
    Energy crackles along your skin as you accelerate your body, increasing your reactions and allowing for bursts of speed. You gain 1 standard action that can be used at any time during the shaping’s duration. In addition, you gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves for as long as the shaping lasts. Your movement can also be increased by 5; per point you increase the DC by. You can gain more actions to use, each increasing the DC by 3. You can’t use more than one extra action per round.

    Metal:
    Iron Reaver
    Base DC: 10
    Range: 30'+5'/2 points
    Effect: One shower of blades
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Save: No
    You launch numerous small blades at the target, dealing 1d6 points of slashing damage. It deals an additional 1d6 for every 2 points you increase the DC by.

    Shadow:
    Umbral Blast
    Base DC: 10
    Range: 30'+5'/2 points
    Effect: One manifestation of shadowy energy
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Save: Will Half
    Choose an energy type (acid, fire, ice, lightning, or sonic) as you shape this spell. You fire a shadowy burst of that energy at the target, dealing 1d6 points of the selected type of damage. The subject is allowed a will save for half damage. It deals an additional 1d6 for every 2 points you increase the DC by.

    Sonic:
    Screech
    Base DC: 11
    Range: 60'+5'/2 points
    Effect: One burst of concussive energy
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Save: No
    You send forth a burst of sound at the target, dealing 1d4 points of Sonic damage. It deals an additional 1d4 for every 2 points you increase the DC by.

    Stone:
    Shale Shrapnel
    Base DC:
    Range: Touch, see text
    Effect: Thrown rock becomes explosive
    Duration:1 round+1 per 4 points
    Spell Resistance: No, see text
    Save: Reflex half, see text
    You supercharge a fist-sized rock with magical energy, causing it to violently detonate. The explosion deals 1d6 slashing damage and 1d4 sonic damage to everything within a 5' burst, half as much on a successful reflex save. 1d6 slashing and 1d4 sonic can be added by increasing the DC by 3, and the radius can be expanded at a rate of 5' per 3 points.

    Water:

    Wind:
    Wings of Air
    Base DC:
    Range: Self only
    Effect: gain temporary flight
    Duration:1 round+1 per 2 points


    If you're still with me after all that, I really need some help. I have far too few shapings written up (I'd like to have 5-10 for each element), I need to figure out how most of the talents will specifically work, and other odds and ends of fixing the menagerie of flaws this class has. So...yeah. Any thoughts or assistance would be appreciated.

    Note: I'm currently playtesting a low level Spellshaper in a friend's game, and another of my friends is playtesting one in my (current) game, so if there are any questions of how something would work in play, feel free to ask. (that isn't to say you shouldn't playtest yourself if you feel so inclined, of course.)

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MageSparrowhawk's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    ...bump?

    I would really like some opinions on this, even if they're simple or on little things...

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [3.5] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    I'm a terrible judge of balance, but it does look good. Also, I found a typo in the first sentence of Greater Spellshaping. I'd also put PEACH in the thread title, you might generate a few more responses that way, not many, but a few.
    Awesome Rob Roy Avatar by Pink Haired August!
    Quote Originally Posted by flabort View Post
    Alright. I have officially found a reason to run around, screaming "The end is near here!", with only a loincloth and a crudely painted sign as my possessions.
    Mind=asplode from the awesome of that image.
    Spoiler
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    Thanks, thanks, and good idea. *edited*

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Thumbs up Re: [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    Well first of all, even though it looks like something I've seen before, it isn't alike at all actually, this is pretty nicely done and I only have some minor suggestions and inspirational pointers :)

    First of all, have you read the BESM(Big Eyes Small Mouths) D20 - Advanced magic, the one with dynamic sorcery :P? Because I think this system takes alot after it, and yet outshines it by being more original, like the Ritualist. But still, just thought you should check out the book and that class as inspirational material ;)
    Also check out Lord Pendragons Willshaper, somehow I think that could give you some ideas too, since healing all Subdual damage through the use of spellshaping seems a bit... mighty ;)

    Now to the quirks:
    Quote Originally Posted by MageSparrowhawk
    Spellshaping: To shape a spell, a Spellshaper must make a spellshaping check. A spellshaping check is similar to a skill check, but uses the formula 1d20+level+Cha modifier. The DC is determined at the time of casting, using the base for the shaping, increased as the Spellshaper sees fit. This is a supernatural ability.

    Every time a spell is shaped, a fortitude save must be made with a DC equal to the Spellshaping DC of that spell. If this save is failed by 5 or more, move down one step on the condition track, then take damage based on how much you failed by. If the failure is by ten or more, move down two steps. Each additional multiple of 10 failed by moves the condition down another step. This damage can be healed magically, though not by the Spellshaper herself. The unconsciousness cannot be magically repaired save for Limited Wish, Wish and Miracle, which can remove all remaining time of unconsciousness.

    {table]
    Initial Condition: No damage
    First failure: 1 subdual damage/point failed on save
    Second: 1d2 subdual damage/point failed on save
    Third: 1d4 subdual damage/point failed on save
    Forth: 1d6 subdual damage/point failed on save
    Fifth: 1d8 subdual damage/point failed on save
    Sixth: 10 minutes unconsciousness/point failed on save
    Final: 1 hour unconsciousness/point failed on save[/table]
    Alright, lets start with amount of failure, or degree if you may :) How am I to understand this, is it going down a step everytime you fail your fortitude save against the DC of a spell during the 1 hour period :S? Or is it only getting really nasty if you get in over your head and fail a save by, lets see, 55 points :)? Which get me wondering, is that what you mean by point failed on save or how am I to understand this, cause that could be some serious damage, might I suggest basing this damage on the DC of the spellshape, mayhaps :)?
    And the minor quirk, don't get people unconscious at the two final stages, try with fatigued and exhausted, since getting sickened or even nauseated later on due to a high amount of subdual damage is justified enough, don't you think :)?


    Oh, and I see that you get some starter spellshapes, but how does one otherwise learn further spellshapes at higher levels? Maybe I'm blind or just not reading all that throughoughly


    Quote Originally Posted by MageSparrowhawk
    Charge: A Spellshaper can store mystical energy in her body for use to ease spellshaping checks. This takes the form of points of charge. Each point of charge can be expended as part of a spellshaping check to give the Spellshaper a +1 bonus to her spellshaping check and fortitude save. A Spellshaper may hold an amount of charge equal to half her level plus her Cha modifier for a number of minutes equal to her Cha score. The duration is not reset each time the Spellshaper gains more charge. Any charge beyond the Spellshaper’s normal limit dissipates at the end of the Spellshaper’s next round. A spellshaper with stored charge above her Cha modifier produces a swirling aura, producing light of torch brightness. A Spellshaper also detects as magical, with an effective spell level of half the amount of charge stored.
    How do one charge :S? Otherwise, really nicely thought out ;)

    That about covers it, for now ;D
    Once again, nice idea, and hope I've been of some help

    Cheers :D

    Edit: Excuse the badly organized table, don't know how to pull those off apparantly :P
    Last edited by Klode; 2011-01-01 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Doh xD

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    Quote Originally Posted by Klode View Post
    Well first of all, even though it looks like something I've seen before, it isn't alike at all actually, this is pretty nicely done and I only have some minor suggestions and inspirational pointers :)
    Why thank you. I'm glad to hear you think highly of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klode View Post
    First of all, have you read the BESM(Big Eyes Small Mouths) D20 - Advanced magic, the one with dynamic sorcery :P? Because I think this system takes alot after it, and yet outshines it by being more original, like the Ritualist. But still, just thought you should check out the book and that class as inspirational material ;)
    Also check out Lord Pendragons Willshaper, somehow I think that could give you some ideas too, since healing all Subdual damage through the use of spellshaping seems a bit... mighty ;)
    I haven't read either of those, but thanks for the suggestion. I will investigate at the first opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klode View Post
    Now to the quirks:
    Alright, lets start with amount of failure, or degree if you may :) How am I to understand this, is it going down a step everytime you fail your fortitude save against the DC of a spell during the 1 hour period :S? Or is it only getting really nasty if you get in over your head and fail a save by, lets see, 55 points :)? Which get me wondering, is that what you mean by point failed on save or how am I to understand this, cause that could be some serious damage, might I suggest basing this damage on the DC of the spellshape, mayhaps :)?
    when you cast a shaping, you make a spellshaping check and a fort save, both against the same DC. If you fail the fort save, you take an amount of damage based on how many points you fail by, and where on the track you are. So...say it's your first shaping of the day, and you fail the save by 6. You go down one step (as you failed by more than 5, but less than 10) and then take 6 points of subdual. if, say you then fail again, but by only 3, you don't go down any steps, and take 3 subdual. If after that you fail by 11, you drop two more steps down (to the third tier) and take 11d4 subdual. It doesn't matter how long these failures are between each other, as long as you haven't rested 8 hours in the interim (which resets your place on the track back to the beginning).

    Quote Originally Posted by Klode View Post
    And the minor quirk, don't get people unconscious at the two final stages, try with fatigued and exhausted, since getting sickened or even nauseated later on due to a high amount of subdual damage is justified enough, don't you think :)?
    The idea is that if you've really pushed yourself that far (failing by at least 5 seven times in a day, or by some very dramatic amount) your body just decides it's totally not worth it anymore, and you fall unconscious. I can see some kind of fatigue or exhaustion for a long time after a short unconsciousness instead of the current setup though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Klode View Post
    Oh, and I see that you get some starter spellshapes, but how does one otherwise learn further spellshapes at higher levels? Maybe I'm blind or just not reading all that throughly
    ...uh...oops. As of now, the only way of getting more is the 'additional shapings' talent...and I'm not sure if I like that. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klode View Post
    How do one charge :S? Otherwise, really nicely thought out ;)
    as written, only through a couple of the talents, though I've been playing with a 'ether potion' idea that would grant Charge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klode View Post
    That about covers it, for now ;D
    Once again, nice idea, and hope I've been of some help

    Cheers :D

    Edit: Excuse the badly organized table, don't know how to pull those off apparantly :P
    Thank you once again, and I will definitely look into the sources you mentioned. (no worries about the table )

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Klode View Post
    since healing all Subdual damage through the use of spellshaping seems a bit... mighty ;)
    Almost forgot this. I'm not sure how far I want to go with it; but for sure, Spellshapers can't heal self-caused subdual damage. Maybe other Spellshapers can't heal it either, and maybe it can't be healed magically at all...I suppose it would come down to playtesting.

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    Default Re: [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    ...anybody else? Thoughts, ideas, opinions?

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    Default Re: [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    Quote Originally Posted by MageSparrowhawk View Post
    Why thank you. I'm glad to hear you think highly of it.

    I haven't read either of those, but thanks for the suggestion. I will investigate at the first opportunity.
    Do that, it will come in handy, believe me :)

    Quote Originally Posted by MageSparrowhawk
    when you cast a shaping, you make a spellshaping check and a fort save, both against the same DC. If you fail the fort save, you take an amount of damage based on how many points you fail by, and where on the track you are. So...say it's your first shaping of the day, and you fail the save by 6. You go down one step (as you failed by more than 5, but less than 10) and then take 6 points of subdual. if, say you then fail again, but by only 3, you don't go down any steps, and take 3 subdual. If after that you fail by 11, you drop two more steps down (to the third tier) and take 11d4 subdual. It doesn't matter how long these failures are between each other, as long as you haven't rested 8 hours in the interim (which resets your place on the track back to the beginning).
    Still think that this should be more dependent on the potency of the spell, but whatever works for you is more than fine with me :) Hope that the playtesting goes well ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by MageSparrowhawk
    The idea is that if you've really pushed yourself that far (failing by at least 5 seven times in a day, or by some very dramatic amount) your body just decides it's totally not worth it anymore, and you fall unconscious. I can see some kind of fatigue or exhaustion for a long time after a short unconsciousness instead of the current setup though...
    Works pretty fine :)

    Quote Originally Posted by MageSparrowhawk
    as written, only through a couple of the talents, though I've been playing with a 'ether potion' idea that would grant Charge.
    Hm, ah "Dynamo" and others, but you forgot to mention the action, is it a move action, standard action or full-round action to accomplish this ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by MageSparrowhawk
    Thank you once again, and I will definitely look into the sources you mentioned. (no worries about the table )
    You're very welcome :D

    Quote Originally Posted by MageSparrowhawk
    Almost forgot this. I'm not sure how far I want to go with it; but for sure, Spellshapers can't heal self-caused subdual damage. Maybe other Spellshapers can't heal it either, and maybe it can't be healed magically at all...I suppose it would come down to playtesting.
    Good luck with that, and hope it's a very fun experience and gives you some knowledge on how to make this project progress :D
    Last edited by Klode; 2011-01-04 at 06:16 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    Do you intend to add more utility shapings in the future, and something that lets you combine them?

    Also, Charge needs to say if the charges are expended after one use, or if they always last one hour.
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    Default Re: [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    This looks very interesting to me, and since you asked for help with the spell shapings, I have 6 ideas in the water/cold section, I'll have to put them in your format, but a little heads-up:

    Ice: Freeze, Freeze Flesh

    Water: Breathe Water, Flood, Drown, Control Water
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    Default Re: [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    Quote Originally Posted by Klode View Post
    Still think that this should be more dependent on the potency of the spell, but whatever works for you is more than fine with me :) Hope that the playtesting goes well ;)
    well, the DC determines how strong the spell is; which determines how much you can fail by...

    Quote Originally Posted by Klode View Post
    Hm, ah "Dynamo" and others, but you forgot to mention the action, is it a move action, standard action or full-round action to accomplish this ;)
    Most of the reason is that I haven't decided what kind of action they should take. The talent descriptions are just placeholders, but...probably a standard action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead_Jester View Post
    Do you intend to add more utility shapings in the future, and something that lets you combine them?
    Yes to both. I just haven't had the chance or creativity to write them up yet. (actually, the second one is already down-Hybrid Shaping, the talent.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dead_Jester View Post
    Also, Charge needs to say if the charges are expended after one use, or if they always last one hour.
    Ah, yeah. The points are expended when used. *will edit*

    Quote Originally Posted by Jjeinn-tae View Post
    This looks very interesting to me, and since you asked for help with the spell shapings, I have 6 ideas in the water/cold section, I'll have to put them in your format, but a little heads-up:

    Ice: Freeze, Freeze Flesh

    Water: Breathe Water, Flood, Drown, Control Water
    Go for it! I'll have to take a look at them, obviously, but feel free.

    That offer (request, really) is open to everyone.

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    Default Re: [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    Looking through again, it looks like it is very hard to get charge, is this the only way to increase the effectiveness of a spell shaping?


    Also, water breathing and drown to see if I get the general idea, I use points a little more than what you have, might give them too much of a psionic styling for you, rules-wise.

    Water:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Deep Breath
    Base DC: 12
    Range: Self only
    Effect: gain the ability to breath underwater
    Duration: 2 rounds +1 per additional point
    Special: for an additional 4 points, instead of increasing the duration by four rounds, the caster may breath in one other situation that would normally hinder breathing, such as being immersed in acid, or being strangled. This may counter Drown.

    Drown
    Base DC: Don't know, probably 25 or higher.
    Range: 10ft, +5 for every 3 points
    Effect: Target's lungs fill with water, completely bypassing the target's natural ability to hold their breath, requiring them to make a fortitude save of 15, +1 for every round the water has been in their lungs. Creatures that can breath water through the use of gills are not immune to this effect, but creatures which do not need to breath, or can magically breath water are immune.
    Duration: Instantaneous the, the water is not removed from the target's lungs on it's own.
    Spell Resist: ...probably
    Save: Special
    Special: Turns out, the rules aren't really clear on how exactly one stops drowning... I imagine a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity by another character could be a decent simulation, if quicker than real life by a good amount...
    Last edited by Jjeinn-tae; 2011-01-04 at 08:37 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jjeinn-tae View Post
    Looking through again, it looks like it is very hard to get charge, is this the only way to increase the effectiveness of a spell shaping?
    There will also be ways to get it through magic items, as well as more talents (maybe?). As for increasing effectiveness, I assume you mean make the check easier, right? Because you could always try to get a bigger effect, but it would increase the DCs and make it less likely to succeed...but yeah. As of now, Charge (and a few talents) are the only way to boost your Spellshaping checks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jjeinn-tae View Post
    Also, water breathing and drown to see if I get the general idea, I use points a little more than what you have, might give them too much of a psionic styling for you, rules-wise.
    Well, if you take a look at some of the more complicated shapings, you're completely in line with using an increase in DC to allow for other things.

    Now then, lets see what you have...
    Water:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Deep Breath *nod*
    Base DC: 12 Sounds about right
    Range: Self only not to allies?
    Effect: gain the ability to breath underwater yup
    Duration: 2 rounds +1 per additional point could be longer, but seems functional as-is
    for an additional 4 points, instead of increasing the duration by four rounds, the caster may breath in one other situation that would normally hinder breathing, such as being immersed in acid, or being strangled. This may counter Drown.
    You don't need to specify that you're spending points for something other than increasing the duration. It just becomes another option for the shaping. It also might be easier just to say that you no longer need air for the duration of the effect. Also, having the shaping "counter Drown" might be something to mention in it's capabilities, but not as a technical "counterspell" effect. If you can breathe water, water in your lungs isn't going to do much to you.

    The second one seems like it could be more effective as a "create water" shaping, with an option to create it in someone's lungs for a sizable increase in DC.
    Create Water
    Base DC: 10
    Range: 5ft+5 per 3 points
    Effect: Conjures water
    Duration: Instantaneous, the water is non-magical after being created
    Spell Resist: Yes (harmless, see text) resist the summoning, rather than the result
    Save: Fort partial (harmless, see text)
    You create 1 cubic foot of water (about 7.5 gallons), either on a surface, or in a vessel to hold it. Less water can be created if desired, and each additional cubic foot increases the DC by 1. The DC can be increased by 10 to convert cubic feet into 5' cubes of water, each cube increasing the DC by 1, as normal (Each cube is 125 cubic feet of water). The DC can also be increased by 10 to create the water within a living target; this is usually done to fill the subject's lungs with water, causing it to begin drowning (follow the suffocation rules in the DMs guide). To remove the water, a full round action which provokes attacks of opportunity is required. If the Fortitude save is successful, the subject is only sickened until a standard action is taken (which does not provoke attacks of opportunity).
    Spoiler
    Show
    Optionally, this could be added.
    -The drowning effect functions on creatures of up to large size without increasing the required volume of water, but to drown larger creatures, more water is required.
    {table]huge|10 cubic feet
    gargantuan|90 cubic feet
    Colossal |720 cubic feet.[/table]


    I admit, it's a little complicated now but the idea is to have the Shapings be very flexible...so, yeah. A constant balancing act to see if they're complicated enough to be useful in a variety of situations, against being too confusing to use.

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    Default Re: [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    Quote Originally Posted by MageSparrowhawk View Post
    Now then, lets see what you have...
    Water:
    Spoiler
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    Deep Breath *nod*
    Base DC: 12 Sounds about right
    Range: Self only not to allies?
    Effect: gain the ability to breath underwater yup
    Duration: 2 rounds +1 per additional point could be longer, but seems functional as-is
    for an additional 4 points, instead of increasing the duration by four rounds, the caster may breath in one other situation that would normally hinder breathing, such as being immersed in acid, or being strangled. This may counter Drown.
    You don't need to specify that you're spending points for something other than increasing the duration. It just becomes another option for the shaping. It also might be easier just to say that you no longer need air for the duration of the effect. Also, having the shaping "counter Drown" might be something to mention in it's capabilities, but not as a technical "counterspell" effect. If you can breathe water, water in your lungs isn't going to do much to you.

    The second one seems like it could be more effective as a "create water" shaping, with an option to create it in someone's lungs for a sizable increase in DC.
    Create Water
    Base DC: 10
    Range: 5ft+5 per 3 points
    Effect: Conjures water
    Duration: Instantaneous, the water is non-magical after being created
    Spell Resist: Yes (harmless, see text) resist the summoning, rather than the result
    Save: Fort partial (harmless, see text)
    You create 1 cubic foot of water (about 7.5 gallons), either on a surface, or in a vessel to hold it. Less water can be created if desired, and each additional cubic foot increases the DC by 1. The DC can be increased by 10 to convert cubic feet into 5' cubes of water, each cube increasing the DC by 1, as normal (Each cube is 125 cubic feet of water). The DC can also be increased by 10 to create the water within a living target; this is usually done to fill the subject's lungs with water, causing it to begin drowning (follow the suffocation rules in the DMs guide). To remove the water, a full round action which provokes attacks of opportunity is required. If the Fortitude save is successful, the subject is only sickened until a standard action is taken (which does not provoke attacks of opportunity).
    Spoiler
    Show
    Optionally, this could be added.
    -The drowning effect functions on creatures of up to large size without increasing the required volume of water, but to drown larger creatures, more water is required.
    {table]huge|10 cubic feet
    gargantuan|90 cubic feet
    Colossal |720 cubic feet.[/table]


    I admit, it's a little complicated now but the idea is to have the Shapings be very flexible...so, yeah. A constant balancing act to see if they're complicated enough to be useful in a variety of situations, against being too confusing to use.
    Hmm, good points I think for the most part. A lot of your questions on Deep Breath are due to me pretty much copying Wings of Air, I thought that would be the truest way to keep flavor. Though being a weaker effect, it would definitely be with in reason to allow it to effect allies I think, balance wise at least. As for why I specified it would "counter" drown, I was keeping drown realistic with, natural ability to breath water does not prevent you from drowning when your lungs are filled with water, I wanted to specify that it was magical water breathing... Seemed like something that WotC would do.

    That is a very good point about rolling Drown in with Create Water, I wasn't sure how versatile you wanted these, I think flood would be a flavorful name for that still. I think your DC's are spot on for that though, first blush.
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    Default Re: [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    Specifying that Deep Breath counters Drown...I guess it works if you state that it counters Drown's effect. I'm trying to separate shapings from spells, so I don't like the wording, but the reasoning behind it is a legitimate point.

    Flood is a nice name, and fits with the descriptive style I was trying to go with for names. I am indeed trying to allow for a fairly dramatic range of abilities for each shaping (other than the basic attack shapings).

    Next step is to include these into the initial list, and then...make more? Probably finish the ones I only started.

    Oh, I've been thinking about items-basically potions-that would give you charge.
    Least would give you 1, Lesser would be 2, normal grants 3, and greater is 4...or something like that. I have no idea how much it would cost to create though. Is there anything that grants increased caster level on a temporary basis?

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    Default Re: [3.5, PEACH] Spellshaper: to be in touch with that force some call 'Magic'

    I had a random idea that I wanted to throw out to be chewed on...

    What if a spellshaper could cast any shaping? At first level (and every once and a while thereon) he/she would select several shapings that s/he was attuned to, and could cast normally. Every other shaping would be done with a +10 (ish) bump to the base DC.

    I have no idea how fair that is, but it seemed like a reasonable idea to have escape my head.

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