[BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn OOC Thread 14: When in doubt...Getsuga Tenshou!

[Frozen_Feet]

[Battlefield, Rukon 38]

Ryouichi squints for a moment at the dust rising from a nearby mountain... and is summarily gone in a flash.

((Speed of plot dictates he will be there immediately after whatever FF and tgva are planning is done. Just getting him out of the battlefield scene so he isn't just standing around.))

I can understand "speed of plot", but I still take major offense to the idea that the Nest mountain is anywhere near Ryouchi. Again, even if we make the conservative (read: ridiculously low) estimate of one mile width for each Rukon ring, District 38 would be at least 38 miles from the mountain. This is not taking into account that it might be on the other end of Seireitei by itself, and Seireitei is dozens, if not hundreds of miles across!

The idea that Ryouichi can see the dust coming from an avalanche on a mountain that is beyond the horizon is beyond ludicrous. Besides, if he actually could see it, him arriving there after Kujo and Taiki are done would require he stopped to drink coffee and have lunch in the meanwhile; there's simply no way his trip would take that long otherwise.

Really, Ryouichi has perfect in-game reason to be "late" - the fact that he's actually pretty damn far. I ask you not to spoil it with lazy writing.

I've said this once, I'll say it twice: I can understand all sorts of handwaves might be required for the story to go smoothly. But please, I beg of you, spend a moment longer thinking on what the handwave is going to be! Otherwise your described method will cause wilder inconsistencies than just saying nothing would...

[strawberryman]

I guess I can understand that, and will take any other suggestions, but I was just trying to get Ryouichi moving without many better options, and am fairly sure that an avalanche would kick up no small amount of debris.

EDIT: Forget it, I'll change it.

[Frozen_Feet]

My suggestion: forgetting for a moment that he couldn't if he wanted, Ryouichi doesn't need to know about the avalanche. At least Masaru has a Reiphone near Ryouichi, and Soushi just send his exact coordinates with a Reiphone. As long as Ryouichi has some form of MPS (Magic Positioning System), he knows where he is, and can find his way to where Soushi is.

You are right that a small avalanche would kick up a lot of debris, and keep a lot of sound - enough to be heard or seen maybe mile or two away, which is estimated distance between Taiki and Kujo, or Kujo and Soushi.

It's not enough sound or noise to be noticed in other major parts of Soul Society, considering Nest is explicitly hidden in inconspicious outskirts - that's why I referred to building near it as abandoned. It's definitely not enough sound or debris to be seen or heard across dozens or hundreds of miles of distance, with the Wall of Seireitei possibly being in between them.

EDIT: I would not accuse for it, if I hadn't brought up the exact same point, partially in exact same words, when the plot started. Seireitei is not a single garrison, and Soul Society is not a small village. Both are huge. I wish people would keep that in mind more, as it'd make it easier to sustain dramatic suspension, when everyone can't use "I see/hear/smell/feel it" as an excuse to jump in every plot.

[Kuroimaken]

There's digging yourself a pit, then there's digging yourself a pit, climbing inside, and paying a guy to fill it with cement. xD

And then there's digging yourself a pit, climbing inside, paying a guy to fill it with cement, and having a four kilometer high tower built on top of it, which feels like what Akio is getting himself into to me.

[KnightDisciple]

My suggestion: forgetting for a moment that he couldn't if he wanted, Ryouichi doesn't need to know about the avalanche. At least Masaru has a Reiphone near Ryouichi, and Soushi just send his exact coordinates with a Reiphone. As long as Ryouichi has some form of MPS (Magic Positioning System), he knows where he is, and can find his way to where Soushi is.

You are right that a small avalanche would kick up a lot of debris, and keep a lot of sound - enough to be heard or seen maybe mile or two away, which is estimated distance between Taiki and Kujo, or Kujo and Soushi.

It's not enough sound or noise to be noticed in other major parts of Soul Society, considering Nest is explicitly hidden in inconspicious outskirts - that's why I referred to building near it as abandoned. It's definitely not enough sound or debris to be seen or heard across dozens or hundreds of miles of distance, with the Wall of Seireitei possibly being in between them.

Which is a fair enough point.

Still, strawberryman had a point: the term "lazy writing" was a bit much. I mean, there's no real point of reference for where the heck those mountains are. Because it wasn't clearly stated "they're way out there" or "they're next to the walls", or whatever. So it's not so much "lazy writing" as "unclear descriptions".

I did forget about Soushi sending the coords via reiphone. I might have Masaru receive that on his way to the 8th, and adjust his course.

[strawberryman]

EDIT: I would not accuse for it, if I hadn't brought up the exact same point, partially in exact same words, when the plot started. Seireitei is not a single garrison, and Soul Society is not a small village. Both are huge. I wish people would keep that in mind more, as it'd make it easier to sustain dramatic suspension, when everyone can't use "I see/hear/smell/feel it" as an excuse to jump in every plot.

The point was not to "jump" on the plot, it was to get Ryouichi moving so he wouldn't be standing around in a time of crisis. I am not trying to swing Ryou around like an oversized sword.

[Wahrheit]

Frozen, Kayne, Riccaru, KD: It's up to you guys whether Magatsu shows up while Suzume's still around. Just because he's heading back "home" doesn't mean he has to barge in before the situation ends if you don't want him to.

[Frozen_Feet]

strawberry: that was not aimed specifically at you; you explicitly stated your intention is not to do any of the sort. It was a general point I wanted to make. I admit it's something of a pet peeve of mine, I don't like things that break established scale in my mind, even if that scale is not as clear to other people as it is to me.

---

Let's look at it this way: Phoenix town is an ordinary Mid-Japan town. If my sense of scale is correct, it's few miles, maybe a dozen, across. If high-tier characters can move at speeds that completely trivialize such distances, it makes it impossible for low-tier folks to have a plot, because the high-tier folks can effectively be everywhere at once.

Same goes for Reiatsu detection - if people can trivially sense other people across such distances, it makes it impossible to, say, have a secret duel between spiritual characters.

This is why I want people to mind the scale, and keep "speed of plot" as an actually reasonable speed. Why I want people to invoke actual feeling of time passing.

Remember, we're aiming at lower power than canon. In canon, the events of Karakura town battle took place within one square mile. Yet it still took time for people to cross it - even the fastest combatants did not routinely zoom from one end to another. Generally speaking, 63 MPH would be fast enough to explain all canon uses of Shunpo expect for clones (which can't actually be explained with any speed). Crossing from Rukon 38 to Seireitei with such a speed would take half an hour. This would be, say, reasonable time for a villain to have a fight with one character and conclude it before the cavalry arrive.

[KnightDisciple]

I think 63mph is too low. I mean, really? That's just barely the speed of a cheetah. Which is a mortal animal that works off of raw muscle power, instead of a demi-angel that runs on, essentially, "magic".

A couple hundred miles an hour still isn't Satoshi-level-madness, but it marks them as clearly supernatural beings. The absolute experts might be topping 400ish, possibly even hitting the sound barrier. There is that whole thing where they reappear before the sound of their movement does.

So making Mach 1 our upper end isn't madness. It's still blatantly fast, but doesn't mean characters would be searing the sky in their wake.

[Frozen_Feet]

63 MPH is still 88'7" in one second. That's faster than human reaction can follow up close.

I'm not saying that's the hard maximum; I'm saying it's enough. Based on actual movement as seen in the series, few characters could claim to be faster. As for "reappearing before the sound of their movement does"? You said it yourself, they run on magic; several super-speed tricks have explicitly been called out as being "magic tricks". There's a point where assuming trickery is better than assuming higher speeds; I'm drawing the line at 63 MPH, cause it's actually a speed I think most of us can still relate with, and it allows for plots while still being superhumanly fast.

I could see increasing it with one half for Mihail in flight, to keep in line with actual flying birds, and I could see doubling or tripling it for the absolute fastest Shunpo users. But something like 400 MPH or Mach 1 is getting too fast, because it trivializes scale, and actually makes several in-game attacks not worth anything. Bala is explicitly called out as being bullet-like - if characters can routinely move at speeds close to or exceeding a bullet, it makes Balas useless. And as I've noted before, most projectiles are slower than Balas. Ceros are called out being 20 times slower.

[Kuroimaken]

As for the whole afterimage thing, I THINK we should be able to handwave it away with some whacky explanation of the interaction between Reishi and light particles. The resident physics experts can probably work this one out better than me, but what if light that bounces off spirit particles slows down?

Or maybe a better one: what if Reishi itself is only partially displaced when moving at certain speeds? Let's imagine for a moment that moving at high speeds leaves a certain Reishi 'residue' behind, kinda like a fingerprint, that light continues to bounce off of and gives the illusion that whatever occupied that space previously is still there?

Of course, not displacing the residue itself would require the capacity to manipulate the flow of Reishi to a small degree, which explains the "skill" aspect of speedsters leaving afterimages behind.

[KnightDisciple]

I just think they should at least be faster than natural creatures on land. Maybe 100mph for the pretty-good-users (this is, of course, in short bursts), and 2-3 for the speedier Captains?

[Kuroimaken]

I just think they should at least be faster than natural creatures on land. Maybe 100mph for the pretty-good-users (this is, of course, in short bursts), and 2-3 for the speedier Captains?

The problem with using absolutes is that they're restrictive in more than one way. One point that FF made and that I find important to remember is that if characters can routinely move faster than bullets, then it makes projectiles useless. Taking cars as a parallel, and then human acceleration, let's consider this: even the most accomplished athletes can't mantain top speed longer than a few minutes; a car takes time to accelerate to maximum speed (with how long it takes to go from 0 to 100 km/h as a benchmark for speed).

Travel speed should be considerably higher than combat speed. This is to both emphasize the deadliness of combat and to make sure speedster characters are not unbeatable. Conversely, combat speed should take one hell of a lot more out of a character's stamina than travel speed, specially if done consecutively. Remember Byakuya versus Yoruichi in the SS arc.

[Frozen_Feet]

As for the whole afterimage thing, I THINK we should be able to handwave it away with some whacky explanation of the interaction between Reishi and light particles. The resident physics experts can probably work this one out better than me, but what if light that bounces off spirit particles slows down?

Or maybe a better one: what if Reishi itself is only partially displaced when moving at certain speeds? Let's imagine for a moment that moving at high speeds leaves a certain Reishi 'residue' behind, kinda like a fingerprint, that light continues to bounce off of and gives the illusion that whatever occupied that space previously is still there?

Of course, not displacing the residue itself would require the capacity to manipulate the flow of Reishi to a small degree, which explains the "skill" aspect of speedsters leaving afterimages behind.

The above amounts to magic trick - using plays of light to create an illusion of something happening one way when it actually does in a second.

I just think they should at least be faster than natural creatures on land. Maybe 100mph for the pretty-good-users (this is, of course, in short bursts), and 2-3 for the speedier Captains?

As noted, roughly within the premises given above (still prefer 63 MPH as benchmark, though). My main interest is in keeping the speeds within a "small" scope - outrunning cars or sportbikes is acceptable, outrunning bullets and fighter planes is not. Otherwise, a handful of Shunpo users could safeguard all of Japan, which consequently would undermine several core premises keeping our setting together.

It's also good to remember that speeds don't have to double between each "tier". 120 MPH is still fast compared to 100 MPH; former can consistently outrun or catch up the latter and give notable advantage in combat.

[riccaru]

KD, is Yoshi shooting at the ground by her, or at Suzume?

[KnightDisciple]

KD, is Yoshi shooting at the ground by her, or at Suzume?

The pistol is shooting at the ground, the intent being to disrupt her footwork. Otherwise, she might lose a toe or something, y'know?

The Byakuri is aimed right at her.

So the answer, in short, is "both".

[Frozen_Feet]

And then there's digging yourself a pit, climbing inside, paying a guy to fill it with cement, and having a four kilometer high tower built on top of it, which feels like what Akio is getting himself into to me.

To add to this, Akio's pit is becoming retroactively deeper, as we still don't know all he did during Ep. 6, and he's on the verge on doing something that'd piss Yui off. XD

[Terry576]

To add to this, Akio's pit is becoming retroactively deeper, as we still don't know all he did during Ep. 6, and he's on the verge on doing something that'd piss Yui off. XD

And he's already insulted her company, which includes Shinigami-Hating Itchy-Trigger Sora, Silva; Whose Doll has an obsession with attacking people, and a small Ghost who they all want to protect.

Man, Akio's making friends everywhere today.

[Kuroimaken]

And he's already insulted her company, which includes Shinigami-Hating Itchy-Trigger Sora, Silva; Whose Doll has an obsession with attacking people, and a small Ghost who they all want to protect.

Man, Akio's making friends everywhere today.

"Maybe he wants to be my friend."

[KerfuffleMach2]

And he's already insulted her company, which includes Shinigami-Hating Itchy-Trigger Sora, Silva; Whose Doll has an obsession with attacking people, and a small Ghost who they all want to protect.

Not attacking people exactly...just fighting in general. He doesn't care who starts the fight, really. He just figures it's easier if Silva starts it.

But yeah, Akio's in it deep here.

[Frozen_Feet]

Not attacking people exactly...just fighting in general. He doesn't care who starts the fight, really. He just figures it's easier if Silva starts it.

It's Kenpachi in a bottle! Errr, dagger.

"Wait wait wait... does this mean I'm the only one who doesn't want everything end up with a fight? But aren't I the bad guy...?"

The Devil: "What? Why is it so cold here?"

[KerfuffleMach2]

It's Kenpachi in a bottle! Errr, dagger.

"Wait wait wait... does this mean I'm the only one who doesn't want everything end up with a fight? But aren't I the bad guy...?"

The Devil: "What? Why is it so cold here?"

No...not really...I don't want a fight...

Yes you do.

Shut up, Medric.

Also, it is fairly cold in Hell right now. Hell, Michigan, that is.

[KnightDisciple]

It's Kenpachi in a bottle! Errr, dagger.

"Wait wait wait... does this mean I'm the only one who doesn't want everything end up with a fight? But aren't I the bad guy...?"

The Devil: "What? Why is it so cold here?"

Josiah doesn't want a fight. I'm just trying to determine at what point he'll think he should try playing the role of a "concerned adult" and try to intervene. I mean, Yui's there, but 2 is better than one, yes?

[Frozen_Feet]

I'm interested on how Josiah and others of SWORD actually see Soul Burial and Soul Society, outside of their leeriness towards Shinigami. Maybe you could explore that with Josiah somehow?

[tgva8889]

Which is a fair enough point.

Still, strawberryman had a point: the term "lazy writing" was a bit much. I mean, there's no real point of reference for where the heck those mountains are. Because it wasn't clearly stated "they're way out there" or "they're next to the walls", or whatever. So it's not so much "lazy writing" as "unclear descriptions".

...And that was my fault, and for that I apologize. At least, I think it was my fault, I don't remember explicitly telling everyone that the Nest is nowhere it should be found.

[KnightDisciple]

I'm interested on how Josiah and others of SWORD actually see Soul Burial and Soul Society, outside of their leeriness towards Shinigami. Maybe you could explore that with Josiah somehow?

IC? Sure. Should I just jump into the scene now?

[Frozen_Feet]

I'm a bit hazy on that. I'm not aware of any obstacles. I see no harm done in him walking on the group and expressing his opinion.

[KnightDisciple]

I'm a bit hazy on that. I'm not aware of any obstacles. I see no harm done in him walking on the group and expressing his opinion.

It is done.

@Terry: Uh...what's the difference between "breaking bonds" and "fighting out of bonds"? There's still several layers of Bakudo from Captain-level individuals on him.

[Terry576]

It is done.

@Terry: Uh...what's the difference between "breaking bonds" and "fighting out of bonds"? There's still several layers of Bakudo from Captain-level individuals on him.

My comatose state.

I'm gonna go rewrite that. It wasn't very good.

And it was me trying to write thirteen ideas into one thing.

[Frozen_Feet]

Last time I checked, it's Karite just thinking about it. Considering his other, less than realistic thoughts prior to this event, at this point I'd write it off as "wishful thinking". XD