Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Cieyrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    As it's come to my attention from Psyren's Pathfinder Psionics Conversion Guide, that the Giths and Thri-Kreen didn't make the jump into Psionics Unleashed, I'm wondering whether there's been any attempts to make our own or what even to do to get them across. The biggest jump is the whole dropping of LA that PF pushes, which I'm not sure how to really deal with, as most of the LA +1 races seem to have just dropped the LA and kept the rest as-is.

    Since all 3 races are LA +2 (and the Thri-Kreen has the Monstrous Humanoid HD as well), how would the Playground go about getting them inline with the core PF and PU races?
    Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

    Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Gnome Gun Mage avatar by NEO|Phyte
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!

    My badges! :D
    My Homebrew
    The Gunslinger's Handbook
    Archetype Combo List!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    The Rose Dragon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    There is a simple reason gith and thri-kreen are not in Pathfinder: they are not OGL material. As such, I'm not even sure you can work on your own conversion publicly (of course, what you do for your own game is your own business).
    I use black for sarcasm.


    Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.

    If you need me for something, please PM me about it. I am having difficulty keeping track of all my obligations.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Cieyrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon View Post
    There is a simple reason gith and thri-kreen are not in Pathfinder: they are not OGL material. As such, I'm not even sure you can work on your own conversion publicly (of course, what you do for your own game is your own business).
    Well, right, but how is that stopping me from posting a conversion that I'm not using commercially or gaining any monetary gains from? The OGL is there if I'm trying to sell my work and it's not like I necessarily need to post the original 3.5 versions, which would be what WotC would get in a tizzy over, from my understanding of it. Basing my work off of what they produced is no more frowned on than creating new martial disciplines, which aren't OGL, either.
    Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

    Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Gnome Gun Mage avatar by NEO|Phyte
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!

    My badges! :D
    My Homebrew
    The Gunslinger's Handbook
    Archetype Combo List!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    The Tygre's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Serpent's Throne
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    As long as you're not making any money off it or trying to sell it, I think you're safe. Now, I'm not exactly sure what to tell you. Seems to me that you just need to look at the old ones and convert them as per usual PF conversion rules. You could go with a new direction to match Golarion if you wanted, though. The Githzerai would need some reworking for sure; they live in the Astral, and PF's big planar transitive plane is Limbo The Maelstrom.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Avatars by kpenguin.

    My Characters
    According to this test, I am a LN Half-Orc Cleric, Lvl.2.
    "And he said, 'Dance before us, atrocious nothing.'"
    "And in the layer of the Deep Ones, we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever." - H.P. Lovecraft

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Mulletmanalive's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    WOTC ≱ my opinion

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    To my understanding, WotC's take on this sort of thing is rather like Anne Rice's take on fanfiction: "Don't or I'll sue the crap out of your website"

    That said, Bhu has been taking liberties with the trademarked names for ages without consequence, so perhaps if you alter the backstory a bit [Golorion it up a bit] you should be alright.

    Trouble with these things is how do you convert them without utterly stuffing their primary traits?

    The four arms thing is basically a CR 1 maker right there, which means you'd be starting out with an extra hit dice in the monster conversion scheme...

    The massive Dex bonus of the Githzerai [oddly, my favourite outsiders, preferably in their non-psionic form though] would probably also warrant them having a hit dice as well...well, a CR...you know what i mean...
    Mine is not so much a Peter Pan Complex as a Peter Pan Doom Fortress and Underground LairTM!
    Fae-o-matic Want a fae from folklore stated? Give me the lore and I'll do it for you!
    Le Cirque Funeste Evil Fairy Circus! Ray Bradbury, refined down to snortable powder!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Cieyrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    To my understanding, WotC's take on this sort of thing is rather like Anne Rice's take on fanfiction: "Don't or I'll sue the crap out of your website"

    That said, Bhu has been taking liberties with the trademarked names for ages without consequence, so perhaps if you alter the backstory a bit [Golorion it up a bit] you should be alright.
    I wasn't overly concerned with the fluff aspects in any case. I may write some stuff up but that comes after crunching them up.

    Trouble with these things is how do you convert them without utterly stuffing their primary traits?

    The four arms thing is basically a CR 1 maker right there, which means you'd be starting out with an extra hit dice in the monster conversion scheme...

    The massive Dex bonus of the Githzerai [oddly, my favourite outsiders, preferably in their non-psionic form though] would probably also warrant them having a hit dice as well...well, a CR...you know what i mean...
    Yeah, that's the thing that gives me pause, as I'm not entirely sure how to keep their spirit without horribly nerfing them. I suppose I should look more into the Bestiary to see what the situation on Monstrous PCs are before pushing this further. My PF knowledge isn't the most extensive around, I'll admit.
    Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

    Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Gnome Gun Mage avatar by NEO|Phyte
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!

    My badges! :D
    My Homebrew
    The Gunslinger's Handbook
    Archetype Combo List!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    I'd say there would be nothing wrong with making a new Mantis/stick insect like monstrous humanoid, though and giving it a name that is not Thri-Kreen.

    Now, four arms are indeed a bit too good for no LA, sadly, but you could keep the abilities (+2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 something, to stay in line with Pathfinder?), give them their normal jump bonus and something else.
    "The Drowned Man is not a God. He is from the North, and the North is too cold for gods."

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I want more mwa-ha-haaa and much less boo-hoo-hoo.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Where the Wild Things Are
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    As it's come to my attention from Psyren's Pathfinder Psionics Conversion Guide, that the Giths and Thri-Kreen didn't make the jump into Psionics Unleashed, I'm wondering whether there's been any attempts to make our own or what even to do to get them across. The biggest jump is the whole dropping of LA that PF pushes, which I'm not sure how to really deal with, as most of the LA +1 races seem to have just dropped the LA and kept the rest as-is.

    Since all 3 races are LA +2 (and the Thri-Kreen has the Monstrous Humanoid HD as well), how would the Playground go about getting them inline with the core PF and PU races?
    I found this great, helpful guide on the Paizo forums. Feel free to work on your project in the confines of your computer, if you so choose! As long as you don't plan on profiting from your work, though, you should be able to work on your races without any hitches; I doubt the Wizards that live on the coast are going to Knock your door down for updating some races. Taking down one homebrewer operating for free on a community forum hardly seems like a worthwhile investment xD.

    Anyway, I saved the formula but I don't have the full thread; I'll see if I can get it for you a little bit later. For now, here's how you make a Pathfinder Race that's balanced around the Human's level of power.

    Part One: Racial Ability Modifiers
    • Any race that is Human or Half-Human gains a +2 bonus to an Ability Score of their choice.
    • Any race that is not Human or Half-Human gains a +2 to two ability scores, one in each a physical ability (Str, Dex, or Con) and a mental ability (Int, Dex, or Cha) as well as a -2 to any ability score.
    • You cannot initially deviate from these totals, though in Part Two, you can change this up at a point cost.


    Part Two: "Buying" Racial Features
    Every LA +0 race has enough class features to equate to two and a half feats (2.5). Most homebrewers like a nice, even number to work with, so assigning that a single feat is worth 4 points gives you a nice, even 10 points to play with (4 points for the two full feats plus another 2 points for the half-feat). From here, you buy your abilities, though you can also take penalties to increase the number of points you have to play with. Here's VoodooMike's list:

    10 point racial ability:
    • Improve a racial stat bonus from +2 to +4


    8 point racial ability:
    • A feat of the player's choice
    • Add a new +2 bonus to a stat that lacks it in a category that already has a bonus


    4 point racial abilities:
    • up to 30 foot fly, burrow, climb speed or up to 50' swim speed
    • negate -2 worth of racial stat penalty.
    • switch a racial stat bonus to the other category.
    • +2 to a stat in a category with no stat bonuses yet.
    • +1 bonus to all saving throws
    • +1 AC bonus (armor, natural armor, etc)
    • spell resistance of 6+class levels
    • One natural attack that deals 1d6 or two (ie claws) that deal 1d4
    • anything that resembles an existing feat (ie, gnome magic's +1 DC is identical to spell focus)


    2 point racial abilities:
    • 1 bonus skill point per class level
    • +2 save bonus vs. small set of specific things (ie, fear, poison, disease... up to 3)
    • +2 racial bonus to two different skills.
    • Immunity to one type of effect (ie fear, sleep, poison)
    • +5 spell resistance if the race already has it.
    • One natural attack that deals 1d3 points
    • Amphibious (breath both air and water)
    • Darkvision 60'
    • speed not reduced by heavy armor
    • anything that resembles an existing feat but with half the bonus


    1 point racial abilities:
    • +4 dodge bonus vs. a specific creature type.
    • +4 CMD bonus vs. one type of combat maneuver.
    • +2 save vs one very specific thing
    • +2 racial bonus to a skill.
    • +1 attack bonus vs. specific creature types (one type - for humanoid and outsider must select up to two subtypes)
    • Low-Light vision
    • Weapon familiarity (up to 4 martial weapons - if only exotics for the race, costs 0)
    • anything that is fairly trivial or minor


    -1 point racial drawbacks:
    • -2 penalty to a stat in a category where additional penalties have already been applied.
    • Light sensitivity
    • Very situational penalty (ie, merfolk not liking to be out of water for long)
    • These are by no means complete or comprehensive, but they do give a rough guideline for building PF races that have no level adjustment and are on par with the existing examples of races from the Core books. Here's a quick look at a few of the existing races:


    -2 point racial drawbacks:
    • -2 penalty to a stat that already has an adjustment (positive or negative).
    • Negate racial bonus to one stat
    • Vulnerability to electricity, acid or sonic.


    -4 point racial drawbacks:
    • -2 penalty to a stat that lacks a penalty in a category that has no existing penalties.
    • -10 foot movement speed (a 5 foot penalty is worth nothing)
    • Vulnerability to fire or cold.


    As a forewarning, not all of the Pathfinder Races perfectly meet this guideline. For example, the Pathfinder Half-Orc is a 9pt. race while the Elf is an 11pt. race. Keep that in mind. Also, since Level Adjustment does not technically exist in Pathfinder, you have to use a personal guideline on what is "too powerful" for your games; many people like to simply use the Experience Tracks in the Core Rulebook and set their PCs on different tracks based on their Level Adjustment. Anyway, I'll give you a few Pathfinder examples as well as one I made for myself.

    Human:
    +2 to any stat
    bonus feat of choice (8 pts)
    +1 skill point per level (2 pts)
    Total: 10pts.

    Half-Orc:
    +2 to any stat
    Darkvision (2 pt)
    Intimidating (1 pts)
    Orc Blood (1 pt)
    Orc Ferocity (4 pts)
    Weapon Familiarity (1 pt)
    Total: 9pts.

    Dwarf:
    +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha
    Slow (-4 pts)
    ..and steady (2 pts)
    Darkvision (2 pts)
    Defensive Training (1 pt)
    Greed (none - so specific that its fluff)
    Hatred (1 pt)
    Hardy (3 pts) - ad hoc +1 adjustment since "spells and spell like abilities" is pretty broad
    Stability (2 pts)
    Stonecunning (2 pts) - ad hoc +1 adjustment for the utility of 10' notice range
    Weapon Familiarity (1 pt)
    Total: 10pts.

    And here's one of mine:

    Vulsune
    +2 Int, +2 Dex
    Medium: Vulsune are Medium sized creatures.
    Normal: Vulsune have a 30ft. movement speed.
    Therian: Vulsune are humanoids of the therian subtype. A therian is affected by mind-affecting spells and abilities as if it was a creature of the animal type in addition to the humanoid type. If the ability does not affect creatures with an Intelligence higher than 2, the therian gains a +2 bonus on their saving throw, but is otherwise affected by the ability as if their Intelligence were 1 or 2.
    Elemental Boon: All vulsune are born under one of the four primodial elementals. At 1st level, the vulsune selects one of the following feats as a bonus feat: Air Blessed, Earth Touched, Flame Kissed, or Water Caressed.
    Instinct: A vulsune gains a +2 bonus on Perception and Survival checks. (+2 pts.)
    Low Light Vision: A vulsune can see twice as far in low light conditions as a human.
    Weapon Familiarity: Vulsune treat the bastard sword as well as any weapon with 'vulsune' in its name as a martial weapon instead of an exotic weapon.

    Ability Scores - 4pts.
    Medium Size - 0pts.
    Normal Speed - 0pts.
    Therian Subtype - -1pts.
    Elemental Boon - 4pts.
    Instinct - 2pts.
    Low Light Vision - 1pts.
    Weapon Familiarity - 0pts.
    Total - 10pts.

    Some notes: Resistance 5 to a single energy type is considered a 4-point ability (yes, Aasimar are significantly above in power level in Pathfinder simply because of their resistances and the removal of their racial penalty; Tieflings are a little closer in power to the core races). Also, in the Advanced Guide (and several 3.5 sources), Scent was added as a feat, so Scent is officially a 4pt. ability. Also, a good idea for features such as flight is to NOT give them to your race and instead allow them to be unlockable with a special feat chain for that race. A good idea would be to give winged race a feature like this:

    Winged: Although you possess wings, they aren't strong enough yet for full-fledged flight. However, possessing them grants you a +2 bonus on Fly checks, as you are able to more easily manipulate the air currents around you.
    And then have the Winged Trait be a required feature for your series of flying feats.

    As a final word of closure, the most important part of race building in Pathfinder is that you want to avoid making your race too good for a single class or role. If someone looks at your race and goes "oh yeah, that's a Sorcerer race!" then you've done something wrong. It's okay for your character to be good at something, but an entire race of warriors, mages, or priests isn't particularly helpful to your PCs. Good luck, and I'll be lurking around to help you out in your adventures!

    1/11/11 - 1:30 - Here's the link to the Paizo Boards if you want to check that out. It's a pretty good read :). I don't recommend it over GitPG though; it takes a LOT longer to get a reply there. Pazio Homebrew Boards
    Last edited by Golden-Esque; 2011-01-11 at 01:31 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Cieyrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    I'd say there would be nothing wrong with making a new Mantis/stick insect like monstrous humanoid, though and giving it a name that is not Thri-Kreen.

    Now, four arms are indeed a bit too good for no LA, sadly, but you could keep the abilities (+2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 something, to stay in line with Pathfinder?), give them their normal jump bonus and something else.
    Something along the lines of what was done with the Diopsid, perhaps? I'd like to keep the 4 arms in, though toned back a bit. Perhaps I should build off of the Shining South version, since they're LA +1. It'll just be the issue of figuring out how to detach them from their HD, which is the primary stumbling block here.

    EDIT: Actually, I just thought of a solution to that, thanks in part to Arcana Evolved: Paragon classes! I'll just make the Monstrous HD and perhaps upgrade the arms as part of the Paragon class, so you can have your base Thri-Kreen and the Paragon Thri-Kreen, the best of the best, can unlock Multiweapon Fighting for themselves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden-Esque View Post
    Pathfinder Race building guide
    Hey, neat! Thanks for the link, that makes this much easier!
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2011-01-11 at 03:34 PM.
    Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

    Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Gnome Gun Mage avatar by NEO|Phyte
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!

    My badges! :D
    My Homebrew
    The Gunslinger's Handbook
    Archetype Combo List!

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    TheGeckoKing's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In a flying castle
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    Firstly, I love Thri-Kreen, so making them playable outside some horribly cheesy Multiwielding build is awesomesauce.
    Secondly, I think a scaling useability of arms a la Raptoran flight seems in order.
    1st level: Bonus to DEX related skills
    2nd level: Can use arms, but not for weapon holding or somatic components
    4th level: Full useage.
    Fluff it as developing motor skills, or something.

    That's my 2p.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Starbuck_II's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Enterprise, Alabama
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    I like the race guide, let me try. Feel Free to make your Gith different.
    1/2 Ogre:
    Ability Score: +2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Dex (0 points)
    40 ft speed: 2 points
    Large Size- 6 points
    Low-Light vision: 1 point
    Giant Blood 0 points
    Darkvision 60ft: 2 points
    Grand total: 11 points
    Analysis: Removed NA, I say Large is 4 but not all agree so I'll go with 6.

    Githyanki:+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis (0 points)
    Med: 0 points
    Normal speed: 0 points
    Darkvision 60 ft: 2 points
    PR resist: 5 + HD (3.5 points since 6 is minimum for 4 points)
    Naturally Psionic: 3 pp, Worth 1 Points
    Psi-like abilities: Hard to judge as you don't get them right away. Many aren't obtained till high level. So i guess add them up and average it.
    1) 1st: 3/day, Psionic daze, Far Hand (basically cantrips) (1 points)
    2) 3rd: 3/day, Concealing Amorpha (blur) (4 points)
    3) 6th: 3/day, Psionic dimension door: (4 points)
    4) 9th: 3/day Telekinetic Thrust, 1/day plane shift (1 points, as 9th level these aren't hard to obtain)
    Average: 5 points.
    Total: 11.5

    So Githyanki are within acceptable parameters.

    Githerzerai 1.0:+6 Dex, +2 Wisdom, -2 Int (20 points)
    Normal speed: 0 points
    Darkvision 60 ft: 2 points
    PR resist: 5 + HD (3.5 points since 6 is minimum for 4 points)
    Naturally Psionic: 2 pp, Worth 1 Points
    Psi-like abilities: Hard to judge as you don't get them right away. A few aren't obtained till high level. So I guess add them up and average it.
    1) 1st: 3/day, Psionic daze, Catfall, Concussion, Inertial armor (1 cantrip, 3 1st levels). (5 points I guess)
    2) 11th: 1/day plane shift (1 points, as 9th level this isn't hard to achieve)
    Average 3.
    Total: 2+3+3.5+ 1+ 20= 29 points.

    Analysis: Githzerai arent' possible at level 1 unless we lower their racial bonuses.

    Githerzerai 2.0:
    +2 Dex, +2 Wisdom, -2 Int (0 points)
    Normal speed: 0 points
    Darkvision 60 ft: 2 points
    PR resist: 5 + HD (3.5 points since 6 is minimum for 4 points)
    Naturally Psionic: 2 pp, Worth 1 Points
    Psi-like abilities: Hard to judge as you don't get them right away. A few aren't obtained till high level. So I guess add them up and average it.
    1) 1st: 3/day, Psionic daze, Catfall, Concussion, Inertial armor (1 cantrip, 3 1st levels). (5 points I guess)
    2) 11th: 1/day plane shift (1 points, as 9th level this isn't hard to achieve)
    Average 3.
    Total: 2+3+3.5+ 1+= 9.5 points.
    So 2.0 version works.
    Analysis: I lowered Stats to Bonus 1 physical, 1 mental, and penalty to a mental.

    Thri-keen:
    +2 Wis, +2 Dex, -2 Int, -4 Cha (-2)
    Monstrous Humanoid: 0 points
    Meduim: 0
    30 speed: 0 points
    Darkvision 60 ft: 2 points
    Immunity Sleep: 2 points
    Weapon Familiaity: Chatcha and gythkas, 0 points
    Psi-like abilities:
    5th level: 1/day, Psionic Displacement, metaphysical claw (magic fang) (4 points)
    Average: 2.0
    2 Claws (1d4): 4 points
    Leap: +2 Acrobatics: 1 points
    Multi Limb: 4 hands, 2 points
    Total: 13.5
    Anaylsis: I had to limit it to 2 claws of its 4 limbs. So 2 of its limbs have claws the other two don't.
    I also limited when it learned Displacement till everyone could know it so I could average the points from psi-likes.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Where the Wild Things Are
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    I like the race guide, let me try.
    1/2 Ogre:
    Ability Score: +2 Str, +2 Con -2 Dex (-4 points)
    40 ft speed: 2 points
    Large Size- 4 points
    Low-Light vision: 1 point
    +1 Natural armor: 4 points
    Type Humanoid (giant) 0 points
    Darkvision 60ft: 2 points
    Grand total: 9 points
    You've got a few problems here.

    First, when generating ability scores for a non-human race, you get a bonus in one physical score and one mental score. Let's say that you pick +2 Str, +2 Mental, -2 Dexterity. Here are the adjustments you'd make to get to your target stats of +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex.

    Ability Scores: Switch a racial stat bonus to the other category (+4 points)

    Basically, you have to pay four points to switch your stat bonus from a mental stat to a physical stat. This puts you at 4 points so far.

    Large Size: There's actually no points cost associated with permanently being Large Sized. It's a really, really powerful effect. Most of the Pathfinder Homebrewers agree that if your base race is Large Sized, then you're probably already at LA +1 because of your bonuses to damage (both unarmed and from being able to use bigger weapons.

    Low Light Vision: This is correct.

    Giant Subtype: Under the Paizo rules, giant type creatures usually treat Intimidate and Perception as class skills and automatically gain low light vision. You already bought low-light vision, so that's fine, but to automatically gain Intimidate and Perception as class skills is a +2 point cost. Alternatively, you can add a class feature called Giant Blood, which would allow you to be treated as a human and a giant for any effect regarding race. Giant Blood would cost you 0 pts.

    Basically, as it stands your race is at 13 points. This makes it noticeably more powerful than human. However, I personally believe that being Large Sized is worth 8 points on its own; you immediately get access to better weapons (one size category larger, after all) and get a +2 size bonus to your CMB and CMD, but take a -1 to hit and to your AC. If you take my personal oppinion, you're at 17 points, which is definitely LA +1; maybe +2. My advice would be to give them a mental ability instead of Constitution and to trade permanent large size for a spell-like ability that lets them use Enlarge Person on themselves as a full round action once per day. That ability would probably be worth about 4 points.

    Another thing to keep in mind when you're designing a race is your players. This race basically says, "Pick me! I'm the best physical fighting race of any one you can choose from!" Your race doesn't have much to entertain skill or magic-based characters, which is something you definitely want. You want to strive for a role-neutral race when designing a player race. And yes, before you ask, I probably won't allow my players to pick Psionics Unleashed's Half-Giant race. Unless it has some major (and I do mean major) drawback that I haven't heard about yet, it's far too powerful.
    Last edited by Golden-Esque; 2011-01-11 at 04:36 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Where the Wild Things Are
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    I like the race guide, let me try. Feel Free to make your Gith different.
    1/2 Ogre:
    Ability Score: +2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Dex (0 points)
    40 ft speed: 2 points
    Large Size- 6 points
    Low-Light vision: 1 point
    Giant Blood 0 points
    Darkvision 60ft: 2 points
    Grand total: 11 points
    Analysis: Removed NA, I say Large is 4 but not all agree so I'll go with 6.
    Looks better, but it's still underpriced because of the Large size. Think about it, for being large you get the following benefits:

    -1 to AC and Attack Rolls. That MIGHT be worth -4 points. Maybe, and that's just because it costs 4 points to get a bonus to AC.
    +4 to Combat Maneuver Bonus. This one is the huge one. You get a +4 to EVERY combat maneuver bonus AND defense. All of them. You get a +4 to ONE combat maneuver from a combination of TWO feats! Even if you argue that the +2 is only half the feat, this means that a single +4 to one combat maneuver is worth one feat. There are roughly seven combat maneuvers, including APG's new ones. This means that you are effectively gaining the benefit of 21 points right there (4 points for one feat).
    -4 to Stealth. That ends up being about -2 points.
    10 Foot Reach: There isn't even a feat that GRANTS this. There are several class features though, and since some class features equal a feat (Fighter Bonus Feat), we'll say it's worth 4 more points.
    So, effectively, Large Size ends up being worth 19pts by itself. This is why you shouldn't make Large PC races; it's simply not balanced.

    Also, 5ft. speed is worth 4 points because of the Fleet of Foot feat, and that's even with the encumbering penalty. 40 foot speed is very, very powerful (+8 to Acrobatics AND 30ft. speed in heavy armor).

    Githyanki:+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis (0 points)
    Med: 0 points
    Normal speed: 0 points
    Darkvision 60 ft: 2 points
    PR resist: 5 + HD (3.5 points since 6 is minimum for 4 points)
    Naturally Psionic: 3 pp, Worth 1 Points
    Psi-like abilities: Hard to judge as you don't get them right away. Many aren't obtained till high level. So i guess add them up and average it.
    1) 1st: 3/day, Psionic daze, Far Hand (basically cantrips) (1 points)
    2) 3rd: 3/day, Concealing Amorpha (blur) (4 points)
    3) 6th: 3/day, Psionic dimension door: (4 points)
    4) 9th: 3/day Telekinetic Thrust, 1/day plane shift (1 points, as 9th level these aren't hard to obtain)
    Average: 5 points.
    Total: 11.5
    If you're going for Pathfinder, you go all the way. Don't do 3.5 points; it's bad design give it the full 6 + HD for 4 points. You're converting and adjusting old content for new material; you're not trying to squeeze old content into new clothing.

    I would say that if the Psionic abilities scale with level, the entire package would be worth 4 points (about one feat). That one is hard to place though. Your best bet, in my opinion, is to give them the 1st level powers for 4 points, then have a Racial Feat that allows them to expand it based on their Hit Dice and ranks in Spellcraft (Psicraft got folded into Spellcraft).

    Githerzerai 1.0:+6 Dex, +2 Wisdom, -2 Int (20 points)
    Normal speed: 0 points
    Darkvision 60 ft: 2 points
    PR resist: 5 + HD (3.5 points since 6 is minimum for 4 points)
    Naturally Psionic: 2 pp, Worth 1 Points
    Psi-like abilities: Hard to judge as you don't get them right away. A few aren't obtained till high level. So I guess add them up and average it.
    1) 1st: 3/day, Psionic daze, Catfall, Concussion, Inertial armor (1 cantrip, 3 1st levels). (5 points I guess)
    2) 11th: 1/day plane shift (1 points, as 9th level this isn't hard to achieve)
    Average 3.
    Total: 2+3+3.5+ 1+ 20= 29 points.

    Analysis: Githzerai arent' possible at level 1 unless we lower their racial bonuses.
    The assumption for the ability scores is that it costs 10 points to take a 4 to a 6. Such high levels of bonuses are completely unheard of in LA +0 races, though, so yes. Those bonuses need to be nerfed.

    In Psionics Unleashed, "Naturally Psionic" is gone as a racial feature. Instead, all Psionic Races get Wild Talent as a bonus feat (4 points). Then, if they take levels in a Psionic Manifester class, that bonus is immediately upgraded to Psionic Talent.

    The problem with judging the psionic "cantrips" is that they're not even cantrips at all. I think you're really going to have to tone down the number AND quality of powers if you're going to give them out as racial features for Player Characters.

    Githerzerai 2.0:
    +2 Dex, +2 Wisdom, -2 Int (0 points)
    Normal speed: 0 points
    Darkvision 60 ft: 2 points
    PR resist: 5 + HD (3.5 points since 6 is minimum for 4 points)
    Naturally Psionic: 2 pp, Worth 1 Points
    Psi-like abilities: Hard to judge as you don't get them right away. A few aren't obtained till high level. So I guess add them up and average it.
    1) 1st: 3/day, Psionic daze, Catfall, Concussion, Inertial armor (1 cantrip, 3 1st levels). (5 points I guess)
    2) 11th: 1/day plane shift (1 points, as 9th level this isn't hard to achieve)
    Average 3.
    Total: 2+3+3.5+ 1+= 9.5 points.
    So 2.0 version works.
    Analysis: I lowered Stats to Bonus 1 physical, 1 mental, and penalty to a mental.
    First, like I said, bump that 3.5 to a 4 pointer for 6 + HD. It's no big deal, and there's no reason to use fractions of points.

    Second, I still think you should nerf the Psilike abilities. They get increasingly better as levels progress, and I think you're better off upgrading their natural psionics through feats. Give them Psionic Daze definitely, maybe Catfall. Inertia Armor is far too strong for a racial ability, in my opinion, as it immediately grants 16 points of racial features, even if it's temporary.

    Thri-keen:
    +2 Wis, +2 Dex, -2 Int, -4 Cha (-2)
    Monstrous Humanoid: 0 points
    Meduim: 0
    30 speed: 0 points
    Darkvision 60 ft: 2 points
    Immunity Sleep: 2 points
    Weapon Familiaity: Chatcha and gythkas, 0 points
    Psi-like abilities:
    5th level: 1/day, Psionic Displacement, metaphysical claw (magic fang) (4 points)
    Average: 2.0
    2 Claws (1d4): 4 points
    Leap: +2 Acrobatics: 1 points
    Multi Limb: 4 hands, 2 points
    Total: 13.5
    Anaylsis: I had to limit it to 2 claws of its 4 limbs. So 2 of its limbs have claws the other two don't.
    I also limited when it learned Displacement till everyone could know it so I could average the points from psi-likes.
    You get -3 points for that -4 to Charisma; not just -2.
    Limiting progression does not equal balance; you're STILL giving this character a 5th level power when it normally wouldn't have access to it. Imagine if they went straight fighter; even if you waited until 9th level, that still means that the 9th level Thri-Keen is going to have one big advantage over the 9th level human; once per day Displacement.
    Even if you add two hands that don't have claws (for a total of four hands), that is still two additional weapons you can wield, which is two extra attacks. The Two-Weapon Fighting feat also adds one additional attack (4 points), so adding two should be 8 points.

    Hope this helps you adjust your races. In my opinion, none of them are LA 0, and I wouldn't let my players use them personally : /.
    Last edited by Golden-Esque; 2011-01-12 at 02:35 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Where the Wild Things Are
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    Just as a heads up, I was over on the Dreamscarred forums and they're in the process of developing 0-Level Psionic Powers. They're called Talents, and they have an interesting mechanical design.

    Here's the link to the Psionic Talents Beta.

    Edit: Don't know if that'll appear in said book or not, but it's still definitely still a good place to go for inspiration.
    Last edited by Golden-Esque; 2011-01-12 at 03:30 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    TheGeckoKing's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In a flying castle
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    I'm going to try this Pathfinder Points business, but i'm iffy about Pathfinder rules in general, so here goes nothing;

    Thri-Kreen
    +2 WIS, +2 DEX, -4CHA (-2 points so far)
    Monstrous Humanoid
    Medium Sized (Still -2)
    Weapon Familiarity: Catchas and Gythkas (-2)
    Darkvision: Out 60ft (And we're at 0)
    Four Armed: All Thri Kreen have four arms, but you cannot utilize your arms to their full potential until you gain accustomed to them. At 1st level, you gain a +2 bonus to all DEX based skill checks. At 2nd level, this is replaced with the ability to use your four arms for anything you could do withyour first 2 arms, except wielding weapons/shields, and using then for somatic components. At 4th level, your motor skills finally become so good you can use the arms to wield weapons/shields, and use somatic components with them. (I'm gonna just flat out say this is 10 points, so we're at 10 points so far)
    Immunity to Sleep: Thri-kreen do not sleep, and are immune to sleep affects. They still need 8 hours rest to regain spells/pp etc. (12 points. Yeah. Drawback, here we come!)
    Socially Inadept: Thri-Kreen do not gain Diplomacy as a class skill. (I'm hoping this is -2, but it could just be -1)

    Total: 10(Maybe 11) Points.

    This is a conversion of the Non-Psionic Thri-Kreen, btw. The Psionic Thri-Kreen just has too much for me to fit into 10 points.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Where the Wild Things Are
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    I'm going to try this Pathfinder Points business, but i'm iffy about Pathfinder rules in general, so here goes nothing;

    Thri-Kreen
    +2 WIS, +2 DEX, -4CHA (-2 points so far)
    Monstrous Humanoid
    Medium Sized (Still -2)
    Weapon Familiarity: Catchas and Gythkas (-2)
    Darkvision: Out 60ft (And we're at 0)
    Four Armed: All Thri Kreen have four arms, but you cannot utilize your arms to their full potential until you gain accustomed to them. At 1st level, you gain a +2 bonus to all DEX based skill checks. At 2nd level, this is replaced with the ability to use your four arms for anything you could do withyour first 2 arms, except wielding weapons/shields, and using then for somatic components. At 4th level, your motor skills finally become so good you can use the arms to wield weapons/shields, and use somatic components with them. (I'm gonna just flat out say this is 10 points, so we're at 10 points so far)
    Immunity to Sleep: Thri-kreen do not sleep, and are immune to sleep affects. They still need 8 hours rest to regain spells/pp etc. (12 points. Yeah. Drawback, here we come!)
    Socially Inadept: Thri-Kreen do not gain Diplomacy as a class skill. (I'm hoping this is -2, but it could just be -1)

    Total: 10(Maybe 11) Points.

    This is a conversion of the Non-Psionic Thri-Kreen, btw. The Psionic Thri-Kreen just has too much for me to fit into 10 points.
    For someone who doesn't know Pathfinder, you did a great job. There are just a couple of nitpicks I need to make.

    First is being a Monstrous Humanoid. That makes you immune to an entire slew of effects, which is a no-no. In the new Psionics Unleashed book, they got around this by adding the Humanoid (Insectoid) creature type. Basically, they're affected by everything exactly like humanoids, but they look like bugs. ALL of the Psionic races lost being a Monstrous Humanoid or an Aberration, so it's definitely an important change to make.

    Second, there are six Dexterity based skills, which would make your arm thing worth 12 points at 1st level, ignoring the part about it scaling. There are also a ton of skills that having multiple arms wouldn't help in (I'm looking at you, Fly!) So, here's how I would redo this one.

    Multi-Limbed: Fitting their insectoid physiology, Thri-Keen have two sets of arms. However, similarly to a human's handedness, a Thri-Keen typically specializes in one set of limbs. The second set can perform mundane tasks, but in the stress of combat, aThri-Keen cannot use their additional limbs for any purposes, including using spell components, wielding weapons, or making unarmed attacks. A Thri-Keen's additional limbs do grant it a +2 bonus on Acrobatics and Escape Artist checks, however. In addition, a Thri-Keen's multiple hands allow it to qualify for the Multiattack feat, even though it wouldn't normally. A Thri-Keen cannot take the Multiattack feat unless they have a Dexterity of at least 15 and a base attack bonus of +3 or more. Upon gaining the multiattack feat, the Thri-Keen can use their additional hands to wield weapons, following the normal rules for Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiweapon Fighting. They can also use their additional hands to make unarmed attacks and they grant the Thri-Keen a +2 bonus to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense; they cannot use their additional hands to make combat maneuver checks, however.

    Socially Inept isn't really a disadvantage. In Pathfinder, there's no "skill point tax" on purchasing skill ranks if you don't have that skill as a class skill. Instead, having at least one rank in a class skill grants you an additional +3 bonus on skill checks with that skill. You can basically avoid this penalty by A) never taking a class with Diplomacy as a class skill and B) never putting ranks into Diplomacy. Min-Maxers sure won't, I'll tell you that! If you're going to stick with socially Inept, I'd give them a flat-penalty to using the skill. A -2 penalty is worth -1 pts. If you make it to Sense Motive and Diplomacy, you'd be good.

    My last word of advice is that with the multi-limbed fighting, you don't have anything for anyone other than warriors. Even with my version of the ability, your race stands out as a Fighter / Barbarian / Rogue / Monk race. I'd say make the penalty a Strength penalty instead and add a small bonus that looks good for spellcasters / manifesters and you'd have a solid race.
    Last edited by Golden-Esque; 2011-01-12 at 12:59 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    TheGeckoKing's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In a flying castle
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    I did well? Pfft. That's a change. Well, MKII:

    Thri Kreen
    +2 WIS, +2DEX, -2STR, -4CHA
    Humanoid (Insectoid)
    Weapon Familiarity: Catchas and Gythkas
    Immunity to Sleep: Thri Kreen do not need sleep and are immune to sleep effects. You still nee to rest for 8 hours to regain spells/PP.
    Socially Inadept: All Thri Kreen take a -2 penalty to all Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks.
    Psionic Aptitude: All Thri Kreen get Wild Talent as a bonus feat. Then, if a Thri-Kreen takes levels in a Psionic Manifester class, you also gain Psionic Talent as a bonus feat.
    Multi-Limbed: Fitting their insectoid physiology, Thri-Keen have two sets of arms. However, similarly to a human's handedness, a Thri-Keen typically specializes in one set of limbs. The second set can perform mundane tasks, but in the stress of combat, a Thri-Keen cannot use their additional limbs for any purposes, including using spell components, wielding weapons, or making unarmed attacks, but can still do extremely basic things like hold onto (but not use) items. Passing an item from one hand to another is a free action, but the recieving hand(s) must be free. A Thri-Keen's additional limbs do grant it a +2 bonus on Acrobatics and Escape Artist checks, however. In addition, a Thri-Keen's multiple hands allow it to qualify for the Multiattack feat, even though it wouldn't normally. A Thri-Keen cannot take the Multiattack feat unless they have a Dexterity of at least 15 and a base attack bonus of +3 or more. Upon gaining the multiattack feat, the Thri-Keen can use their additional hands to wield weapons, following the normal rules for Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiweapon Fighting. They can also use their additional hands to make unarmed attacks and they grant the Thri-Keen a +2 bonus to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense; they cannot use their additional hands to make combat maneuver checks, however.

    There. No Natural attacks or Psi-Like abilities, but slightly Psionic and if your really desperate for Powers, just take a level or two in Psychic Warrior. Now, tell me if I've messed up, will ya?
    Last edited by TheGeckoKing; 2011-01-12 at 01:39 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Cieyrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    After futzing with it for a while, here's my take on Thri-Kreen:

    Thri-Kreen
    +2 Dex +2 Wis -2 Int -4 Cha (-3)
    Monstrous Humanoid (2) (The difference here with keeping them Monstrous Humanoid is, unlike the Dromites, the Thri-Kreen are beyond normal humanoid constraints. It's a double-edged sword, as, yeah, they can't be Charm Person'd but they also can't be Enlarge Person'd, either)
    Move 30' (0)
    Darkvision (2)
    Sleep Immunity (2)
    Multi-Limbed (2) (It's half a feat, it LETS you take Multiweapon Fighting and Multiattack, it doesn't GIVE you them. The only combat maneuver that benefits from this is grapple, as your close enough to put your arms to use. That might push this up to 4 points, not sure)
    Weapon Familiarity (0)
    Leap (1) (+2 Acrobatics)
    Wild Talent (4)
    Psionic Aptitude (1) (As per the other psionic races. Psionic Aptitude may be worth 0, as it only helps if you're already in a Manifesting class)
    Total: 11

    And now, to account for the rest of Thri-Kreen, I present a Pathfinderized Thri-Kreen Paragon class!

    Thri-Kreen Paragon
    Hit Die:
    d8
    Class Skills: The Thri-Kreen Paragonís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Perception (Wis) and Stealth (Dex).
    Skill ranks at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Powers Known

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Great Leap (+4), Natural Attacks, Thri-Kreen Carapace (+1)|
    -

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Great Leap (+7), Psychic Heritage, Thri-Kreen Poison|+1 level of existing manifesting level

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Ability Boost (Dex +2), Great Leap (+10), Greater Psychic Heritage, Thri-Kreen Carapace (+2)|+1 level of existing manifesting level[/table]

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A thri-kreen paragon is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor and shields.
    Great Leap (Ex): A thri-kreen paragonís racial bonus to Acrobatics increases to the amount indicated in the table above.
    Natural Attacks (Ex): At 1st level, a thri-kreen paragon hones their claws and bite into natural weapons. They gain four claw attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage as primary natural attacks and a bite that deals 1d4 points of damage as a secondary natural attack.
    Thri-Kreen Carapace (Ex): A thri-kreen paragon gains the indicated bonus to natural armor.
    Psychic Heritage (Ps): At 2nd and 3rd level, a thri-kreen paragon unlocks some of the mental powers that their ancestors once wielded. At 2nd, the thri-kreen paragon may use chameleon and know direction and location as psi-like abilities three times per day, each. At 3rd, they gain concealing amorpha and metaphysical claw as additional psi-like abilities once per day, each. Manifester level is equal to their character level.
    Powers Known: At the indicated levels, a thri-kreen paragon gains new additional power points per day and access to new powers as if he had also gained a level in a manifesting class he belonged to before. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional power points, powers known and an increased effective level of manifesting. If a character had more than one manifesting class before becoming a thri-kreen paragon, he must decide to which class he adds the level for purposes of determining power points per day, powers known and manifester level.
    If a thri-kreen paragon has no levels in a manifesting class, this class feature has no effect.
    Thri-Kreen Poison (Ex): At 2nd level, a thri-kreen paragon, through adherence to modified sleep and diet patterns, activates his racial poison glands. On a successful bite attack, a thri-kreen paragon may inject his victim with his poison. Type: Injury; Save: Fortitude DC (10 + class level + Con modifier); Frequency 1/round for 5 rounds; Initial Effect: 1d3 Dex; Secondary Effect: paralysis for 10 minutes; Cure: 1 save. A thri-kreen paragon produces sufficient poison for only one poisonous bite per day.
    Ability Boost (Ex): At 3rd level, a thri-kreen paragonís Dexterity score increases by 2 points.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2011-01-12 at 03:00 PM.
    Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

    Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Gnome Gun Mage avatar by NEO|Phyte
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!

    My badges! :D
    My Homebrew
    The Gunslinger's Handbook
    Archetype Combo List!

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Where the Wild Things Are
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGeckoKing View Post
    Thri Kreen
    +2 WIS, +2DEX, -2STR, -4CHA
    Humanoid (Insectoid)
    Weapon Familiarity: Catchas and Gythkas
    Immunity to Sleep: Thri Kreen do not need sleep and are immune to sleep effects. You still nee to rest for 8 hours to regain spells/PP.
    Socially Inadept: All Thri Kreen take a -2 penalty to all Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks.
    Psionic Aptitude: All Thri Kreen get Wild Talent as a bonus feat. Then, if a Thri-Kreen takes levels in a Psionic Manifester class, you also gain Psionic Talent as a bonus feat.
    Multi-Limbed: Fitting their insectoid physiology, Thri-Keen have two sets of arms. However, similarly to a human's handedness, a Thri-Keen typically specializes in one set of limbs. The second set can perform mundane tasks, but in the stress of combat, a Thri-Keen cannot use their additional limbs for any purposes, including using spell components, wielding weapons, or making unarmed attacks, but can still do extremely basic things like hold onto (but not use) items. Passing an item from one hand to another is a free action, but the recieving hand(s) must be free. A Thri-Keen's additional limbs do grant it a +2 bonus on Acrobatics and Escape Artist checks, however. In addition, a Thri-Keen's multiple hands allow it to qualify for the Multiattack feat, even though it wouldn't normally. A Thri-Keen cannot take the Multiattack feat unless they have a Dexterity of at least 15 and a base attack bonus of +3 or more. Upon gaining the multiattack feat, the Thri-Keen can use their additional hands to wield weapons, following the normal rules for Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiweapon Fighting. They can also use their additional hands to make unarmed attacks and they grant the Thri-Keen a +2 bonus to their Combat Maneuver Bonus and Combat Maneuver Defense; they cannot use their additional hands to make combat maneuver checks, however.
    Looks much, much better to me :).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Thri-Kreen
    +2 Dex +2 Wis -2 Int -4 Cha (-3)
    Monstrous Humanoid (2) (The difference here with keeping them Monstrous Humanoid is, unlike the Dromites, the Thri-Kreen are beyond normal humanoid constraints. It's a double-edged sword, as, yeah, they can't be Charm Person'd but they also can't be Enlarge Person'd, either)
    Move 30' (0)
    Darkvision (2)
    Sleep Immunity (2)
    Multi-Limbed (2) (It's half a feat, it LETS you take Multiweapon Fighting and Multiattack, it doesn't GIVE you them. The only combat maneuver that benefits from this is grapple, as your close enough to put your arms to use. That might push this up to 4 points, not sure)
    Weapon Familiarity (0)
    Leap (1) (+2 Acrobatics)
    Wild Talent (4)
    Psionic Aptitude (1) (As per the other psionic races. Psionic Aptitude may be worth 0, as it only helps if you're already in a Manifesting class)
    Total: 11
    Here are my comments:

    Monstrous Humanoid: You're immune to ALL effects that target humanoids, though. If you're going to transfer them to Pathfinder, you might have to update their fluff a little bit to make them "a little more humanoid." If you don't, your encounters as a DM are going to have to be completely balanced around the idea that one of your players is immune to a large number of abilities. As a GM, I would mandate that they were Humanoid (Insectoids) if my players wanted to play as them.

    Multilimbed: You'll have to link me the full text rulling for me to decide if this is okay or not. What's the total bonus to the Grapple combat maneuver, for example? Improved Grapple only gives a +2, so +2 to Grapple is definitely worth 2 points on its own, ignoring the part about being able to take Multiweapon Fighting. I'd say pay for the grapple bonus, then add 1 point for the ability to take Multiweapon Fighting. Add the line that without Multiweapon Fighting you can't attack with your two additional hands and you should be fine.

    Psionic Apititude: This doesn't cost you any points. It's a very small benefit unless you're a specific class. Think of it like the invisible "favored class" entry that all races have.

    And with that, I would like to end by saying if you wish to continue the discussion on race making, I created a new thread and reworded some things to make it easier to understand. You can find the thread here. Hope to see you all there!

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Cieyrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden-Esque View Post
    Here are my comments:

    Monstrous Humanoid: You're immune to ALL effects that target humanoids, though. If you're going to transfer them to Pathfinder, you might have to update their fluff a little bit to make them "a little more humanoid." If you don't, your encounters as a DM are going to have to be completely balanced around the idea that one of your players is immune to a large number of abilities. As a GM, I would mandate that they were Humanoid (Insectoids) if my players wanted to play as them.
    There isn't actually that many humanoid-only effects out there, actually. The only ones I can think of off-hand are Charm, Dominate, Hold, Enlarge and Reduce. Most everything else doesn't care what type the target is, only if they're an enemy or ally.

    Multilimbed: You'll have to link me the full text rulling for me to decide if this is okay or not. What's the total bonus to the Grapple combat maneuver, for example? Improved Grapple only gives a +2, so +2 to Grapple is definitely worth 2 points on its own, ignoring the part about being able to take Multiweapon Fighting. I'd say pay for the grapple bonus, then add 1 point for the ability to take Multiweapon Fighting. Add the line that without Multiweapon Fighting you can't attack with your two additional hands and you should be fine.
    The only rulings I can think of I don't think are online, since they're both basically 3.0 sources, which may not even be relevant to Pathfinder. Sword and Fist gave a +4 to grapple for each pair of arms available. Savage Species increased your Strength bonus to damage with a two-handed weapon by .5 for each hand you put on it, so 4 hands made it +2.5 Str. If anything, I'd have to write those into the entry. Either way, ignoring the Strength bonus and reducing the grapple bonus to Pathfinder levels should be fine, I'd say.

    As for the 'Requires Multweapon Fighting' bit, I think inflicting the standard two-weapon penalties is enough of a deterrent. If they really want to tackle the -6 on their primary and -10 on their other three attacks (-4/-8 if the off-hands are all light), I'm not really seeing an issue. Especially with the cost of enchanting multiple weapons, which is only exacerbated by Multiweapon Fighting, as opposed to Two-Weapon Fighting, I think they have enough issues.

    Psionic Apititude: This doesn't cost you any points. It's a very small benefit unless you're a specific class. Think of it like the invisible "favored class" entry that all races have.
    Kinda what I thought that, though I wanted to err on the side of caution on that front. Will change that up.

    And with that, I would like to end by saying if you wish to continue the discussion on race making, I created a new thread and reworded some things to make it easier to understand. You can find the thread here. Hope to see you all there!
    If I could repost my full Pathfinderized Thri-Kreen over there, Thri-Kreen Paragon included, I'd be happy to do so. More exposure for feedback is always good times.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2011-01-14 at 06:27 PM.
    Rule of Cool Contributor and Goon

    Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Gnome Gun Mage avatar by NEO|Phyte
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!

    My badges! :D
    My Homebrew
    The Gunslinger's Handbook
    Archetype Combo List!

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Pathfindering the Thri-Kreen & Giths

    i would say look at this race, its a 20 point race but is still considered acceptable to play as a level one, it also has 4 arms.

    Spoiler: Kasatha
    Show
    https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/kasatha


    it is a good base to go off of, and i think it might be PF version of the thri kreen.
    Last edited by Drackstin; 2014-10-22 at 12:07 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •