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2011-01-12, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2004
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- USA
[3.5]Alternative Uses for Turn Undead
'Kay, so I'm researching some of the things I can do with Turn Undead attempts besides, well, actually turning undead. If you don't generally see a lot of undead, then it makes sense to find a different use for them.
But as I've been browsing through my books, I realized that there are just so many options it's overwhelming.
What do you trade your Turn Undead for? I'm guessing most of these options are going to be feats, but there could be items that could be used to channel that positive energy toward something that could help the party.
What alternative uses for Turn Undead are most useful?Last edited by Callista; 2011-01-12 at 03:25 PM.
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2011-01-12, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Seattle, WA
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Re: [3.5]Alternative Uses for Turn Undead
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER trade Turn Undead. Its an awesome mechanic for powering tons of cool stuff.
CWarrior, CDivine, and a couple other books have a fair number of [Divine] feats, feats that use TU attempts to do various things. Some of them are REALLY GOOD, like Divine Metamagic or Divine Might, and some of them are kinda meh, like Divine Vigor or Divine Shield, and some are downright terrible like the one that aligns everyone else's weapons but yours, forgot the name, or Divine Resistance. The ones that take an action to activate but only last 1 round are generally considered miserable.
CChampion also introduces Devotion feats, all of which other than Knowledge Devotion, grant additional uses by spending TU attempts.
Some classes also use TU attempts to do cool things. Ruby Knight Windicator and Ordained Champion are two of the best, and best known, but I'm sure there are a few others.
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2011-01-12, 03:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- Florida
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Re: [3.5]Alternative Uses for Turn Undead
On my Ordained Champion... I use Turn Attempts to Smite (Cha to hit, Turn Level to Damage) and Sacred Shield (Cha to Shield AC as a Sacred Bonus)... Probably will pick up Divine Spell Power for a Caster Level Increase
The #1 thing turn attempts are used for in the realm of most bang for your buck, though, is Divine Metamagic.Advocate for S.U.P.E.R.!
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2011-01-12, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2004
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- USA
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2011-01-12, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Seattle, WA
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Re: [3.5]Alternative Uses for Turn Undead
Yea, there's not much you can really trade if out for anyway. Clerics only have the Smite Giant's ACF in Races of Stone, which is TERRIBLERAWR, and Paladins have a couple of options in Champions of Valor, most of which are pretty bad, though.
Just makin sure! :P
EDIT: I just remembered another use. Illumians (RoDest) with the NaenHoon sigil combo can use something akin to Divine Metamagic, and it doesn't even have the whole "Divine Only" clause, which means that any Illumian Wizard who dips into Sacred Exorcist can DMM Persist up to 2 spells per day. Also, another reason why Paladin4/Duskblade2 is my favorite entry into Suel Arcanamach. Persistant Wraithstrike is FUN!
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2011-01-12, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: [3.5]Alternative Uses for Turn Undead
1.Unless you're wanting to be a necromancer, I would change out Turn Undead. For Rebuke Dragon. Not only is fully compatible in regards to feats(says so explicitly), but I suspect that commanding a dragon is far more potent for the cleric not built for necromancy.
2.Dragonfire Channeling converts Turn attempts for undead(dragons too) and elementals into a breath weapon. If you've got elemental domains, this is probably the only RAW+RAI method of converting them. Requires you to be dragonblooded. Default is half-fire, half-sacred, but can be adjusted with draconic heritage.
3.In complete divine, there's a variant rule for how turning works that allows you to deal damage instead of the fear/destruction results, making it *FAR* more effective against high effective HD undead, like the BBEG.Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
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2011-01-13, 01:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2004
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- USA
Re: [3.5]Alternative Uses for Turn Undead
Are there options that affect more than just your character?--like, stuff that'll help the rest of the party somehow?
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2011-01-13, 01:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Re: [3.5]Alternative Uses for Turn Undead
You can only command a dragon with HD up to half your turning level, which isn't going to be all that impressive even if you pile on the turning level bonuses. With undead, you can at least use tricks involving negative turn resistance to snag stronger targets, which won't work with dragons.
On the other hand, for good-aligned (or healing-spont neutral) clerics any rebuking is probably better than straight turning, and the dragons will probably smell better than undead.
As far as alternate uses for turn attempts, my favorite is Water Devotion. Yeah, it's no Divine Metamagic, but I like being able to just plop out a water elemental several times a day whenever I feel like it, and it'll frequently compare favorably to the elementals you could get with Summon Monster at equal level.
Are there options that affect more than just your character?--like, stuff that'll help the rest of the party somehow?Last edited by Benly; 2011-01-13 at 01:59 AM.
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2011-01-13, 05:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: [3.5]Alternative Uses for Turn Undead
Avatar by Assassin89
I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
My homebrew(updated 6/17):
SpoilerIn progress:
Prolonged Spell(Fix for Persistent spell)
Weapon Training(replaces Weapon Focus chain)
Shelved:
Ascendant Feats.[New content!]
Finished:
Belts of potionade
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2011-01-13, 05:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: [3.5]Alternative Uses for Turn Undead
A few items from the MIC can be powered by Turn Attempts:
Divine Wrath weapon enhancement
Ring of Brief Blessing
Radiant SphereMy winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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2011-01-13, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- Springfield, MO
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Re: [3.5]Alternative Uses for Turn Undead
Divine Metamagic is great and gets a bad reputation from people who try to carry around 400 Nightsticks. When used responsibly, and with at max 1 Nightstick, you can get free Extend/Persist on extremely useful spells and then have more spell slots for utility/combat/buffing/whatever.
I'll second that the Devotion feats are awesome, well several of them are anyway. Law, Travel, Animal, and Knowledge Devotion are all great feats, and all but the Knowledge one give you extra uses for spending TU attempts.Master Rahl guide us. Master Rahl teach us. Master Rahl protect us. In your light we thrive. In your mercy we are sheltered. In your wisdom we are humbled. We live to serve. Our lives are yours.
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2011-01-13, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Re: [3.5]Alternative Uses for Turn Undead
From the way turning/rebuking works, unless Rebuke Dragons changes that drastically. You can rebuke targets up to your level, but commanding only happens to targets with HD of half your level or less.
Originally Posted by SRD on "Destroying Undead"Originally Posted by SRD on "Evil Clerics and Undead"
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2011-01-13, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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Re: [3.5]Alternative Uses for Turn Undead
There is Divine Counterspell in Complete Mage. You lose the ability to turn/rebuke undead but gain the ability to burn turning attempts to act as Dispel Magic for counterspelling. You add your cleric levels as opposed to caster levels, you can do that 1+ Cha mod (as opposed to 3 + cha.)