[NEXUS] Nexus OoC 13: Saturday the Nexteenth

[D_Lord]

It's a crazy eldritch thing, most of the time it leaves people alone, besides most of the time if you don't attack it or have sugar it will just ignore you. Beside Mr. I-Hate-unstoppable-things your things are also made to be unstoppable too, any thing or any plot that hurts your things, all you seem to do is wine about it.


Edit: I'm fine with it at Riverside, I like silly things.

Also for DC you may want to be more proactive instead of reactive, it could help. It seem more fun when you start things.

[celtois]

...

On both sides it seems like the Empire and AMEN are playing to win.

and neither side is having fun.

[lord pringle]

To riverside!

[Beans]

...

On both sides it seems like the Empire and AMEN are playing to win.

and neither side is having fun.

Welcome to the Nexus!
What's that? You want to do something? Well, I hope you don't mind stepping on some toes! Or nailing some feet to a roof and throwing rocks at them!

[ThirdEmperor]

So, I'm cool with having the crime spree in Eastside, unless RPGs cares to host our mayhem?

[Gullara]

So, I'm cool with having the crime spree in Eastside, unless RPGs cares to host our mayhem?

Na, you do it. I'm not feeling particularly creative tonight.

[Moff Chumley]

One thing to consider: it's way easier for the Empire to RP damage than it is for AMEN. DC, you can just say "x amounts of soldiers and three tanks are lost, and a couple of blocks are reduced to rubble", but for AMEN, what happens? There's really no way to RP damage. If there was, I'm sure people'd be happy to do it. On the other hand, Empire's a huge city with a huge army, so as far as I know, anything AMEN's done so far has had minimal impact...

So what are you really complaining about? I think both factions need to compromise a bit more, but it's not my battle, so I'll just leave you guys with that.

[ThePhantom]

Phantom: Then tell me how, if the base regenerates itself and most of the AMENites that deal with the Empire aren't allowed to be killed (OOC, since you admitted you didn't want Gordon offed yet) or respawn (henchmen, Rot)?

TE: I am not very good at silly.

D_Lord: Whenever unstoppable omnipotent gods/eldritch things are involved I won't even bother. I hate dealing with those things.

Well, the base was only and can only regenerate one, I have no control over D_Lord. As for the how, you have been doing that a bit. You destroyed the air town, you mostly keep AMEN from getting what they want in the city, but for trying to get a killing blow to the group, well, I'm afraid the city's forces lack the dramanic punch to do it.
WATCHTOWER and the other groups do, but unless there's something like a battle at the city walls, and they win and head off to deal with AMEN, there's just missing something.

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time getting the flow of events to reach the point where it would be dramaticly okay for Gordon to die. I'm sorry this is upseting people.

Okay, after seeing Moff's post, let's try and figure out a comprimse here.

DC, please list the things that you want out the interactions between AMEN and the City.

[Terumitsu]

Hey there.. I've got a possible solution for the current stalemate of having armies but not being able to do anything with them.

For a while now, I've been wanting to have a nicely large force out to possibly recruit other PCs for some or other end (Wanting to keep the reason secret as it might still be valid even though I'm reappropriating what they were going to do here and all.)

Sorry if this initial description isn't all that clear.. I suffer from putting too much thought into things.. Makes them hard to summarize..

So yes, would a third side be better rather than simply paired animosities?

[Darkcomet]

Celtois: Of course I'm playing to win. Generally speaking, it's the players of the villains who are not supposed to be playing to win, correct?

I refuse to deal with omnipotents because there's only one way even trying to stop them can end. If no one had noticed, do I ever use enough force to be called 'unstoppable'? No, I don't. I specifically make sure I don't massively overdo it with the Empire, and AMEN has no such restraint. I do not try to steamroll AMEN with thousands of soldiers, tank columns, and bombers. I do not simply point overly large amounts of artillery at something and fire. I don't use anywhere near full power on anything. That is the difference between my military and omnipotents. I do NOT use it to its full capacity except in the event of army battles or giant monster rampages or apocalypses or things like that in general.

Whereas if omnipotents are involved there's no point in trying to stop them no matter how much force I use as, as D_Lord says, they might not do anything if you leave them alone, but if you try to stop them, say bye-bye to everything you have! Or maybe their guns turn into bombs! Or they turn into toys! I refuse to deal with that, sorry.

The key to high power is the will to NOT USE FULL POWER ALL THE TIME.

And what do I want out of AMEN? I'll tell you the truth.

I think AMEN is too innately invulnerable for this to ever work.

[ThePhantom]

DC, if you don't give me anything to work with, I can't do anything to make the sitution better. Calm down about 'invulnerable', and then tell me about how you would have the sitution be.

[V'icternus]

I think DC's point is that you cannot try to be an immovable object and an unstoppable force at the same time.

If you are willing to cause great damage or institute great change, be willing to get stomped.
If you would rather not be murderized, play it cool.

Otherwise there's just annoyance and frustration.

[Darkcomet]

See.

That's the thing, Phantom.

I don't think there's anything you can do about it.

AMEN has always had cloning vats and the regenerating base.

AMEN has always had crazy-power members and they're not going to go away because you said so.

AMEN has always been basically invulnerable to outsiders.

It is not something either of us can control.

[FireFox]

If Gordon/AMEN wants to attack, attempt to assassinate, kidnap, duel, rob, frame, or even banter with any of my characters, they are more than welcome to. I just require a little advance notice, and reserve the right to not allow certain of my favorite characters to be permanently broken if I have other plans and am in a bad mood. I can't say the same thing about HALO as an organization, but if you ask around OoC, I bet you could find some other people who would be interested in some battles and whatnot in the base.
Of course, I can't promise to be the most stable poster, as my, what, weeklong absence? can attest to...

[celtois]

Well I think that playing to win in general doesn't work out anytime there is conflict.

I mean yes I'd like to the see the motif of good triumphs over evil carry on in the nexus of all places. But if your playing to win then what is the point in them even trying anything?

I mean sure your only sending bite sized opposition against them. But even so. If your overall idea is that the you'll always win. That can also trickle down to the feeling of dealing with your troops.

In general I think that the frustration on both sides comes from the idea that their side has to win.

Maybe on different scales. AMEN wants to win it's next little attack.

the Empire wants to win over all.

But it still seems to boil down to that struggle between the two sides who both want to succeed.


Blech....anyways that's just my interpretation as an outside to the conflict.

[ThePhantom]

See.

That's the thing, Phantom.

I don't think there's anything you can do about it.

AMEN has always had cloning vats and the regenerating base.

AMEN has always had crazy-power members and they're not going to go away because you said so.

AMEN has always been basically invulnerable to outsiders.

It is not something either of us can control.

Oh, I am afraid your'e right. Wait, while AMEN itself can only fall to people not paying attention to it, Gordon himself and his rule of AMEN are not so strong. Can we try focusing on that part, and work something out, please?

[VeisuItaTyhjyys]

I think it's sort of unfair to assume the villains always have to lose. I think both sides having their victories and their losses is a more fair way to do things. I don't know, but refusing to have any conflict in which you don't win seems pretty limiting to others. If that's what you'd like, that's all right, but it hardly seems fair or equitable. Again, I'm new, so perhaps I'm missing some history, but it seems things would be more fun for everyone if everybody got tossed around a little bit but could survive it.

In example, Skugdim being a complete karma houdini doesn't seem that fun, just going around evil-ing with no consequences. I wouldn't mind him seeing some wounds from his bank-robbing spree, however, it doesn't seem any more fair to assume he gets caught and all the money is returned than it does to assume it goes off without a hitch. There can be a balance.

[Darklord Bright]

It's far more complicated than that. AMEN is pretty much untouchable.

[happyturtle]

Basically the problem here is that AMEN is set up like a supervillain organization that goes out and fights the Superfriends every week. And next week, everything is reset back to the status quo, and the fight starts again. And unless someone is willing to roleplay the Superfriends, which DC isn't, then that won't work.

So either, AMEN needs to be made vulnerable, which could lead to them getting killed off for real.

Or AMEN needs to lower the scale of their villainy.

Or they need to find some Superfriends to fight with.

But AMEN vs Inside, as it stands now, just doesn't work, IC or OOC.

[V'icternus]

An evil character with plans of domination or destruction is naturally gonna be pretty powerful and hard to kill, right?

Well, AMEN sticks a bunch of them together, gives them cloning vats, a regenerating base, and has them work together.

And then you have to take OOC concerns into the mix.

IC, it would make sense for everyone to band together and wipe them out.

Tell me, would that seem fair to any AMEN members, being ruthlessly attacked by everyone threatened by a giant evil organisation in a way that makes sense?

Everyone else has to play the defensive, or else just try to hinder AMEN.

And yet; AMEN's goals include screwing things up for other PCs and NPCs, seeing as they are evil.

It is just an organisation that has evolved to the point where it is annoyingly untouchable, ridiculously powerful and destructively inclined.

[ThePhantom]

Basically the problem here is that AMEN is set up like a supervillain organization that goes out and fights the Superfriends every week. And next week, everything is reset back to the status quo, and the fight starts again. And unless someone is willing to roleplay the Superfriends, which DC isn't, then that won't work.

So either, AMEN needs to be made vulnerable, which could lead to them getting killed off for real.

Or AMEN needs to lower the scale of their villainy.

Or they need to find some Superfriends to fight with.

But AMEN vs Inside, as it stands now, just doesn't work, IC or OOC.

Thank you Happy. That does fit the sitution to a T.

You know what, I think that after we take care of the sitution that started this, I think AMEN will be toning down its villainy, for a while at least, and that's I can promise.

[FireFox]

Basically the problem here is that AMEN is set up like a supervillain organization that goes out and fights the Superfriends every week. And next week, everything is reset back to the status quo, and the fight starts again. And unless someone is willing to roleplay the Superfriends, which DC isn't, then that won't work.

So either, AMEN needs to be made vulnerable, which could lead to them getting killed off for real.

Or AMEN needs to lower the scale of their villainy.

Or they need to find some Superfriends to fight with.

But AMEN vs Inside, as it stands now, just doesn't work, IC or OOC.

Yeah. That's why, as I said, am offering up some of my characters. I'd like to see HALO be what you dub the "Superfriends", but I can't force everyone else to do that. At least my own characters, with a wide range of power levels, can serve as targets for AMEN. A designated mark, as it were.

[Darkcomet]

Veisu: I was speaking in overall terms. I'm playing to win in the fashion that I'm not intending to let AMEN conquer Inside and the Empire.

Phantom: What Happy and V'ic said pretty much say what I was going to say better than I would have said it.

[Moff Chumley]

And if you can stick with that, Phantom, I'll happily rejoin AMEN.

[celtois]

So on a completely different topic. Anyone feel like RPing with June?

Or should I have her continue on making NPC's suicidal at Trogs.

[ThePhantom]

Okay, I'll try my best, but we still have to deal with wheather or not Gordon can attack the ISQ headquarters.

[ThirdEmperor]

I think both sides have a point.

On one hand, AMEN is pretty much undestroyable, yet they do nothing but destroy, meaning everyone else has no choice but to hope they don't become AMEN's next target, cause if they do they'll be stuck in a battle they cannot win.

On the other, the Empire is almost unstoppable, and more powerful than AMEN. Now, DC doesn't use all the Empire's resources at once, which is good, but if anyone wants to take down the Empire, they do have to fight all of it's troops, airships, landspeeders, ect. and as the Empire is pretty much the most powerful ACRO in the game, that makes it pretty much unstoppable too.

This is all made worse by the fact that both sides want to win from what I see, and both with good reason. DC wants to win, because he put a lot of effort into the Empire, and doesn't want to see it destroyed. Phantom wants to win because he put a lot of effort into his plan, and doesn't see why it shouldn't at least have a chance of working. At least, that's how I see it.

To quote several much wiser people, I think both sides need to sit down, talk it over, and compromise. After all, anything is possible when you use compromise. I'm on a dragon!

[ThePhantom]

Third, that's what we are doing, trying to work out a compromise.

[happyturtle]

Gordon vs Dalev for control of Eastside?

[FireFox]

I think my previously stated idea is a good compromise. When the Empire wants to attack AMEN, they use the liaison to get HALO to do it, or HALO attacks on their own. When TP wants to do something grand and evil, he does it on HALO or one of my characters, so DC doesn't have to deal with something he doesn't want to.