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    Default A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    After having a look at the ystiv ranger it has inspired me to make a paladin version, here is my attempt.

    "I have been training with the mystic rangers for a long time so I may aid my church better. I will not have some inferior evil paladin stopping me."
    -Vineetas Xavart, Human Mystic Paladin, to a paladin of slaughter, regarding their meeting on the road.




    20 LEVEL SPELLCASTING BASE CLASS
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|
    1
    |
    2
    |
    0
    |
    2
    |Smite Evil 1/day, Aura of good, Detect Evil|2|

    2nd|
    2
    |
    3
    |
    0
    |
    3
    |-|2|1|-

    3rd|
    3
    |
    3
    |
    1
    |
    3
    |Lay on hands, Divine Grace,|2|2|-|-

    4th|
    4
    |
    4
    |
    1
    |
    4
    |Aura of Courage, Divine Health ,|3|2|1|-|-

    5th|
    5
    |
    4
    |
    1
    |
    4
    |Smite Evil, 2/day, Special Mount, |3|3|2|1|-|-

    6th|
    6
    |
    5
    |
    2
    |
    5
    |Remove Disease 1/week|3|3|2|2|-|-|-

    7th|
    7
    |
    5
    |
    2
    |
    5
    |Turn Undead|4|3|3|2|1|-|-|-

    8th|
    8
    |
    6
    |
    2
    |
    6
    |Mercy|4|3|3|2|2|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|
    9
    |
    7
    |
    3
    |
    7
    |Remove Disease 2/week|5|4|3|2|2|1|-|-|-|-

    10th|
    10
    |
    7
    |
    3
    |
    7
    |Mercy (Su)
    Smite Evil 3/day|5|5|4|3|3|2|-|-|-|-

    11th|
    11
    |
    8
    |
    3
    |
    8
    |Mercy-|5|5|5|4|4|3|-|-|-|-

    12th|
    12
    |
    8
    |
    4
    |
    8
    |Mercy,Remove Disease 3/week|5|5|5|5|5|4|-|-|-|-

    13th|
    13
    |
    9
    |
    4
    |
    9
    |-|5|5|5|5|5|5||-|-|-

    14th|
    14
    |
    9
    |
    4
    |
    9
    |Mercy,|6|6|5|5|5|5|-|-|-|-

    15th|
    15
    |
    10
    |
    5
    |
    10
    |Remove Disease 4/week, Smite Evil 4/day|6|6|6|6|5|5|-|-|-|-

    16th|
    16
    |
    10
    |
    5
    |
    10
    |Class Ability|6|6|6|6|6|6|-|-|-|-

    17th|
    17
    |
    11
    |
    5
    |
    11
    |Mercy,|7|7|7|6|6|6|-|-|-|-

    18th|
    18
    |
    11
    |
    6
    |
    11
    |Remove Disease 5/week|7|7|7|7|7|6

    19th|
    19
    |
    12
    |
    6
    |
    12
    |Class Ability|8|8|7|7|7|7|

    20th|
    20
    |
    12
    |
    6
    |
    12
    |Smite Evil 5/day, Mercy,|8|8|8|8|7|7|[/table]

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the paladin.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    Paladins are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).

    Aura of Good (Ex)
    The power of a paladinís aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.

    Detect Evil (Sp)
    At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell.

    Smite Evil (Su)
    Once per encounter and an extra number of attempts equal to his/her charisma modifier, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Cha bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.

    In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.

    The smite evil effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the next time the paladin rests and regains her uses of this ability. At 4th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: Paladin, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.

    The paladin regains a use of smite evil if he/she manages a critical hit against an evil alligned enemy.



    Divine Grace (Su)
    At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

    Lay on Hands (Su)
    Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to her paladin level ◊ her Charisma bonus. A paladin may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesnít have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action.

    Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesnít provoke an attack of opportunity. The paladin decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.

    Aura of Courage (Su)
    Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.

    This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.

    Divine Health (Ex)
    At 3rd level, a paladin gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.

    Turn Undead (Su)
    When a paladin reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to turn undead. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. She turns undead as a cleric of three levels lower would.

    Spells
    Beginning at 4th level, a paladin gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the paladin spell list. A paladin must choose and prepare her spells in advance.

    To prepare or cast a spell, a paladin must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a paladinís spell is 10 + the spell level + the paladinís Charisma modifier.

    Like other spellcasters, a paladin can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Paladin. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score. When Table: The Paladin indicates that the paladin gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to based on her Charisma score for that spell level The paladin does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a cleric does.

    A paladin prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does, though she cannot lose a prepared spell to spontaneously cast a cure spell in its place. A paladin may prepare and cast any spell on the paladin spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.

    A paladins caster level is equal to his paladin level.

    Special Mount (Sp)
    Upon reaching 5th level, a paladin gains the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in her crusade against evil. This mount is usually a heavy warhorse (for a Medium paladin) or a warpony (for a Small paladin).

    Once per day, as a full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount from the celestial realms in which it resides. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the paladinís level. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the paladin and remains for 2 hours per paladin level; it may be dismissed at any time as a free action. The mount is the same creature each time it is summoned, though the paladin may release a particular mount from service.

    Each time the mount is called, it appears in full health, regardless of any damage it may have taken previously. The mount also appears wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed. Calling a mount is a conjuration (calling) effect.

    Should the paladinís mount die, it immediately disappears, leaving behind any equipment it was carrying. The paladin may not summon another mount for thirty days or until she gains a paladin level, whichever comes first, even if the mount is somehow returned from the dead. During this thirty-day period, the paladin takes a -1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.

    Remove Disease (Sp)
    At 6th level, a paladin can produce a remove disease effect, as the spell, once per week. She can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after 6th (twice per week at 9th, three times at 12th, and so forth).

    Mercy (Su)
    At 8th level, and every three levels thereafter, a paladin can select one mercy. Each mercy adds an effect to the paladin's lay on hands ability. Whenever the paladin uses lay on hands to heal damage to one target, the target also receives the additional effects from all of the mercies possessed by the paladin. A mercy can remove a condition caused by a curse, disease, or poison without curing the affliction. Such conditions return after 1 hour unless the mercy actually removes the affliction that causes the condition.

    At 8th level, the paladin can select from the following initial mercies.

    Fatigued: The target is no longer Fatigued.

    Shaken: The target is no longer Shaken.

    Sickened: The target is no longer Sickened.

    At 10th level, a paladin adds the following mercies to the list of those that can be selected.

    Dazed: The target is no longer Dazed.

    Diseased: The paladin's lay on hands ability also acts as remove disease, using the paladin's level as the caster level.

    Staggered: The target is no longer Staggered, unless the target is at exactly 0 hit points.

    At 12th level, a paladin adds the following mercies to the list of those that can be selected.

    Cursed: The paladin's lay on hands ability also acts as remove curse, using the paladin's level as the caster level.

    Exhausted: The target is no longer Exhausted. The paladin must have the fatigue mercy before selecting this mercy.

    Frightened: The target is no longer Frightened. The paladin must have the Shaken mercy before selecting this mercy.

    Nauseated: The target is no longer Nauseated. The paladin must have the Sickened mercy before selecting this mercy.

    Poisoned: The paladin's lay on hands ability also acts as neutralize poison, using the paladin's level as the caster level.

    At 14th level, a paladin adds the following mercies to the list of those that can be selected.

    Blinded: The target is no longer Blinded.

    Deafened: The target is no longer Deafened.

    Paralyzed: The target is no longer Paralyzed.

    Stunned: The target is no longer Stunned.

    These abilities are cumulative. For example, a 12th-level paladin's lay on hands ability heals 6d6 points of damage and might also cure Fatigued and Exhausted conditions as well as removing diseases and neutralizing poisons. Once a condition or spell effect is chosen, it can't be changed.



    Code of Conduct
    A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

    Additionally, a paladinís code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

    Associates
    While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.


    Yes I know this is barely started I haven't been working on it long.
    Last edited by Hazzardevil; 2011-02-20 at 03:55 AM.
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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix

    I see 9th level spells...

    Consider me interested

    Also, there is a typo in Mystic Ranger
    Last edited by Dead_Jester; 2011-01-16 at 04:04 PM.
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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix

    I don't think I will give it 9th level spells although I will need suggestions for high level ones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chained Birds View Post
    Just one of those guys vs girls things. Guys like giant, fighting robots that shoot lazerz out their eyes while girls like pretty jewelry that sparkle in the moonlight after having a romantic interlude with a charming gentleman.

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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix

    Annnnnnnnnnnd Open to critcicism!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chained Birds View Post
    Just one of those guys vs girls things. Guys like giant, fighting robots that shoot lazerz out their eyes while girls like pretty jewelry that sparkle in the moonlight after having a romantic interlude with a charming gentleman.

    Completely sexist, yes! Completely true, pretty much...
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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    Well, for starters: what's gonna be the spell list? Cleric + paladin or a much smaller list? Mystic Ranger's big problem is that you get new spells up to 4th level, and don't get anything else beyond 6th level unless you go Sword of the Arcane Order, which then gives you up to 6th level Wizard spells.

    Second: nothing seems to be removed or replaced. Even the mount is there, and it's as front-loaded as before. Basically you're there for the spells, which makes it Cleric-lite, except you don't get all Cleric spells. The gist with Mystic Ranger is that it delays it's combat styles in order to get spellcasting; the Paladin doesn't get anything delayed, which is a blessing and a curse at the same time (you don't delay stuff like Divine Grace, but at least you don't delay their smites either).

    I can't say anything else, because you're quite obviously focusing on making it a sort of "Mystic Paladin" (heck, that's what you're naming it), so aside from probably delaying Divine Grace two or three levels, it fits. The problem is that better spellcasting doesn't solve anything else: smites remain per day (meaning you'll still save them), the mount will still be more powerful than anything else, and Remove Disease will be a bit pointless since you still have it as a per-week resource. So, as a Paladin "fix", it's not entirely powerful, but it's undoubtedly better than a core Paladin just because of the increased spell slots. Problem is exactly what spells will go later (probably Flame Strike, Righteous Might, Divine Power and all the nifty cleric spells anyways).

    What's gonna redeem this is the spell list, so make sure it's really, really good; if it scales based on other supplements, it will boost the Paladin immensely.
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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    The problem is I want to put back a few class features without shooting the paladin in the foot completely.
    How does regenerating 1 smite every time you get a critical hit in a full round attack?

    Some 5th level spells I considered where,
    Dragon shape, Jut polymorph into any dragon that is NG or LG and doesn't exceed your HD.
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    Just one of those guys vs girls things. Guys like giant, fighting robots that shoot lazerz out their eyes while girls like pretty jewelry that sparkle in the moonlight after having a romantic interlude with a charming gentleman.

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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzardevil View Post
    The problem is I want to put back a few class features without shooting the paladin in the foot completely.
    Delaying doesn't mean you shoot the paladin in the foot completely. Divine Grace can be delayed up to 10th level and still be useful, since you gain a very strong boost in saving throws. If you delay it, you can make it even stronger, such as adding Charisma to AC as well. Divine Health, on the other hand, isn't good to delay since diseases can be either strong (mummy rot, lycanthropy) or not (the remaining diseases). Lay on Hands can be delayed since it's more burst healing than actual healing. Smite, on the other hand, isn't because you need a strong attack right at the beginning, one that does useful work.

    So it's mostly knowing which abilities can be placed later and which earlier. Usually, if you have an ability that adds an ability score modifier to defenses or saves, you want it later; you can debate the same on attack and damage rolls, but generally those are better earlier on. Having Divine Grace come up later extends the lifetime of a Paladin since it forces you to remain in the class for a longer time and prevents dipping.

    How does regenerating 1 smite every time you get a critical hit in a full round attack?
    The problem isn't the fact that they should regenerate or not, but that the limitation of uses per day does not fit with the effect. Pathfinder's Paladin's Smite Evil is worthwhile per day since the effect extends well beyond one round; if you wish to keep it as a single attack, it's better to keep it per encounter (that way, you can use smite every attack, but save it for the strongest enemy/ies because you still have limitations on how many times you can use it); that way, you have the ability to recharge them quite reliably.

    Some 5th level spells I considered where,
    Dragon shape, Jut polymorph into any dragon that is NG or LG and doesn't exceed your HD.
    I dunno...that's pretty strong, actually. Plus, a bit unfitting.

    The Mystic Paladin's spell list should have a few spells that the regular Paladin lacks (Shield of Faith, Aid, Magic Vestment, probably Greater Dispel Magic) and most of the 5th-6th level Cleric spells that aid Paladins (Righteous Might, Mass Cure Light Wounds, Cure Critical Wounds, Disrupting Weapon, probably Spell Resistance; all Mass stat spells, Blade Barrier, etc.) so that they get a solid boost in spells. While looking at Mystic Ranger, figure out which spells the Rangers get that fit their general theme, then get spells for Paladins that work the same. Try adding spells from the Spell Compendium as well (and identify them as such) so that Mystic Paladins get a good variety of spells.

    However, things like Alter Self and Polymorph are just too much for a Paladin, even more turning into a Dragon (even if it's a Gold Dragon, which behaves quite a bit like a Paladin).
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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    Pathfinder's Paladin's Smite Evil is worthwhile per day since the effect extends well beyond one round
    I'm not a fan of much that was done with Pathfinder, but I am a huge fan of what they changed Smite Evil into. In fact, most of their Paladin class is pretty nice.
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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    I'm not a fan of much that was done with Pathfinder, but I am a huge fan of what they changed Smite Evil into. In fact, most of their Paladin class is pretty nice.
    It's a situation of what's their Smite against what I perceive as a Smite.

    I dunno you, but when you hear the word "smite" you expect a sudden and extremely painful rebuke. Generally you associate the word "smite" with the words "god" and "lightning".

    Pathfinder's Smite is more of a Mark than anything else. Compare the Smite ability of PF to the marking ability of 4E Paladin, and you'll notice some similarities. While it's effective (I can't deny it doesn't), it doesn't really feel like a smite, but more of a mark. Case in point: Mark of Doom, where each time the enemy attacks you, it receives damage. Or Mark of Judgment, where each time you hit the enemy, it takes extra damage. It's not a sudden and extremely painful rebuke, and much less "strike down with godly force". Perhaps "injure with divine power", but the original smite did mostly that. What's worse, it feels like something you could replace Favored Enemy with, and it would work very nicely.

    I do approve of something from 4E, and that's the rider effect they gave to smites. So not only you deal extra damage, you also deal stuff like stunning, blinding or nauseating; the effect is so strong it essentially halts the enemy in its tracks. That isn't entirely worth daily uses, but it does make for a much stronger, much better smite.

    So, while PF Smite Evil does have the mechanics to make smite attacks usable per day, it doesn't feel like a smite. But, the smite evil ability from D&D isn't really worth restricting to daily uses. If the OP wishes to go the PF path, I can't say anything, but if he insists on using the 3.5 edition of Smite Evil, at least he should consider making it a per-encounter use, since that way you'll ensure the Paladin's damage potential will remain worthwhile.

    I don't like much what PF did to the Paladin, though I must admit it's much better than 3.5. On the other hand, while a bit more "conservative" on terms of advancements, I like what Turbine did with the Paladin, though it could improve a bit more (adding Intimidate as a class skill, rechargeable smites, extra uses of Lay on Hands; still, they lack a proper damage ability other than smite, and sword & board is apparently a bad idea for any martial character, so you either go 2H or go against type and build a TWF Paladin).
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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    What exactly are you trying to do with this Paladin? As is, it's better than the normal one, but weaker than the Pathfinder one.

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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    It's suppose to be a casting paladin, I need help with the spell list though, I intend to add a few damage spells to the list as well.
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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    The problem with a spellcasting Paladin is, it makes it look a lot like a cleric with more restrictions, and there's already a Paladin that does that. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...restigePaladin

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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    Well, for starters: what's gonna be the spell list? Cleric + paladin or a much smaller list? Mystic Ranger's big problem is that you get new spells up to 4th level, and don't get anything else beyond 6th level unless you go Sword of the Arcane Order, which then gives you up to 6th level Wizard spells.

    Second: nothing seems to be removed or replaced. Even the mount is there, and it's as front-loaded as before. Basically you're there for the spells, which makes it Cleric-lite, except you don't get all Cleric spells. The gist with Mystic Ranger is that it delays it's combat styles in order to get spellcasting; the Paladin doesn't get anything delayed, which is a blessing and a curse at the same time (you don't delay stuff like Divine Grace, but at least you don't delay their smites either).

    I can't say anything else, because you're quite obviously focusing on making it a sort of "Mystic Paladin" (heck, that's what you're naming it), so aside from probably delaying Divine Grace two or three levels, it fits. The problem is that better spellcasting doesn't solve anything else: smites remain per day (meaning you'll still save them), the mount will still be more powerful than anything else, and Remove Disease will be a bit pointless since you still have it as a per-week resource. So, as a Paladin "fix", it's not entirely powerful, but it's undoubtedly better than a core Paladin just because of the increased spell slots. Problem is exactly what spells will go later (probably Flame Strike, Righteous Might, Divine Power and all the nifty cleric spells anyways).

    What's gonna redeem this is the spell list, so make sure it's really, really good; if it scales based on other supplements, it will boost the Paladin immensely.
    I intend to give this a few blasty spells, mostly buffs and occasionally a debuff.

    Here what I intend to give it so far:

    The origanal paladin spell list,

    1st level spells
    Nimbus of light, (1st level, 1d8+caster level positive energy/light damage.)
    Spiritual weapon, (as cleric spell,)
    Hide from undead, (1st level undead, however the paladin unless the oath is changed via DM or a feat such as devoted inquisistor then you aren't allowed to use it to ambush undead.

    5th level spells
    Atonement, (5th level spell, I never understood why a paladin couldn't cast it, I think it fits the flavour,)
    Flame strike,
    Disrupting weapon
    Raise dead,
    Rightoues might,
    Symbol of pain,
    symbol of sleep,
    symbol of justice, (does what every paladin aspires to do, deliver divine justice!)
    Commune,
    Cure light wounds mass,
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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzardevil View Post
    I intend to give this a few blasty spells, mostly buffs and occasionally a debuff.

    Here what I intend to give it so far:

    The origanal paladin spell list,

    1st level spells
    Nimbus of light, (1st level, 1d8+caster level positive energy/light damage.)
    Spiritual weapon, (as cleric spell,)
    Hide from undead, (1st level undead, however the paladin unless the oath is changed via DM or a feat such as devoted inquisistor then you aren't allowed to use it to ambush undead.

    5th level spells
    Atonement, (5th level spell, I never understood why a paladin couldn't cast it, I think it fits the flavour,)
    Flame strike,
    Disrupting weapon
    Raise dead,
    Rightoues might,
    Symbol of pain,
    symbol of sleep,
    symbol of justice, (does what every paladin aspires to do, deliver divine justice!)
    Commune,
    Cure light wounds mass,
    Making a slight observation to the spell list, I find that the Paladin can't cast spells up until 4th level, and can't cast 5th level spells until level 18th. That's really bad, because of what happens: you still leave the 1/2 caster level restriction instead of granting them full caster level. That means the progression becomes a bit skewed, because you get an obscene amount of spells but can't cast them until very, very late. Try fixing that; otherwise, many of the spells you have become pointless.

    Example: Dispel Magic. Dispel Magic is gotten exactly at the same level a cleric would get it, but your spell would still be worse because you'd cast it at half-level. Mass CLW would heal for a very little amount. Flame Strike would deal too little damage. And so on.

    Another is that you're adding still too little. I mentioned an idea: the full list of Cleric spells plus the Paladin-exclusive spells. This is because while you still lack the big spells the Cleric has, you get a massive collection of lower-level spells that dwarf that of a 10th level Cleric. Granted, you'd have to restrict a few spells that would be non-thematic, but otherwise you'd be granting a very strong list of spells that the Paladin would make a much better use. Paladins get spells at a lower level than Clerics; make sure you use that. However, Clerics get some spells at a lower level than Paladins; use that as well. In that way, you get up to Mass Cure Light Wounds as a 5th level spell and Cure Critical Wounds as a 4th level spell, if you decide to use it. You'd also get very good spells such as Shield of Faith at level 1, Aid at level 2, Air Walk at level 4 and so on, which expands the options a Paladin has access to. With the small additions that are mostly cherry-picked (I presume you haven't finished revamping the spell list; if that's it, I excuse myself), the list still doesn't bring anything great to Paladins. In fact, with a well constructed list, you could delay Paladin spellcasting to resemble that of a Bard and the Paladin would still be useful. The Paladin could use good blasty spells, but the meat of a Paladin would be the self-buffing it has available. Thus, the spell list shouldn't focus mostly on blasting spells, but self-buffs that add more power to the Paladin (or an ally, if he wishes to share) to keep in-line with a self-buffed Cleric. Remember the Paladin will have access to the same tricks as the Cleric (DMM Persist/Quicken) but also will have access to its own tricks (Battle Blessing), so you need to count for that.

    I'd generally recommend lowering spells, but since your progression is pretty much equal to that of a Cleric up until 10th level in which you get more spell slots instead of more spells, the spells can remain at the same level. Thus, spells like Dispel Magic, Bull's Strength and others remain viable at the necessary time. But again: check the CL. Paladins really deserve full CL, because half-CL on a half-spellcaster is just shooting you in the foot.

    So, in a nutshell: take CL to full and consider carefully which spells to add, though I personally prefer Cleric spells + Paladin spells (with some tweaks to remove evil spells and a few others that don't fit with a Paladin theme from the list). Oh, and do tweak the table a bit; you can start erasing the columns of 6th-9th level spells and organize a bit. It's a tad messy, and that's not good if you want to showcase your work because it makes it harder to read and understand. It's going on a good road, but it needs a lot of clean-up to make it better.
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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    Sorry, I don't belive you are informed, mystic rangers get 1st level spells at level 1 I intend for the paladin to be the same.
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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    -half caster level still? At level 9, they have a CL of 4 and yet cast 5th level spells?

    -The mercies are neat, but I think you should consider rolling some of them together. If you're only getting like 5 of them (table needs fixed for when mercies come, btw), that's exactly 5 things you can get cure out of all D&D. Some of them, like Staggered, really don't come up often enough. You could make it something you select from menus at the time of use instead of at level up. For example, every time you use Lay on Hands, choose 1 item from the level 8 list, one item from the level 10 list, one item from the level 12 list, etc.

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    Default Re: A new paladin variant/fix P.E.A.C.H

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzardevil View Post
    Sorry, I don't belive you are informed, mystic rangers get 1st level spells at level 1 I intend for the paladin to be the same.
    You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

    Take it with a pinch of salt, but this is as best an explanation: you can't cast a spell if the caster level is lower than the norm. Thus, you can't cast a 1st level spell without having at least 1 point of CL, and CL is, like most of the stuff in D&D, rounded down. So it'd be zero CL at 1st level, CL 1st at 2nd level, CL 2nd at 4th level, CL 3rd at 6th level, and so on. Unless you specify such, you need a minimum caster level to use the spell; hence, if you intend to keep the progression of spells as-is, you wouldn't be able to cast 1st level spells until CL 2nd (because that's the moment when a paladin gets to cast 1st level spells), or until 2nd level when you get your first CL. Likewise, you wouldn't be able to cast 2nd level spells until you got CL 3rd (which means up until you get to your 6th level in Paladin) OR until you get to 8th level (when Paladins get to use their 2nd level spell slots). And so on.

    To clarify: to cast a spell, you need at least three things:
    • At least one spell slot to prepare (or available, if able to cast spontaneously)
    • The minimum ability score to cast the spell (in this case, a Wisdom of 10 + spell level)
    • The minimum caster level to use the spell. In this case, a Paladin can cast 1st level spells at a minimum CL of 2nd, 2nd level spells at a minimum CL of 4th, 3rd level spells at a minimum CL of 5th, and 4th level spells at a minimum CL of 7th


    Regarding this last bit: a Paladin would get, as mentioned, its first actual CL at 2nd level if going half-caster; CL 3rd at 6th level, CL 5th at 10th level and CL 7th at 14th level (notice the pattern?). Thus, you wouldn't be able to cast 5th level spells until your caster level reaches 9th, which is achieved at 18th level.

    IIRC, Mystic Ranger grants full spellcasting from 1st level, including full caster level. If it grants half, it's a great deal of misunderstanding from Paizo and the designers, because the rules specify you need a minimum caster level to use the spell. In essence, when you reduce your caster level, you are casting the spell as if you were a spellcaster of a lower level; otherwise, if you had no restrictions based on CL, you'd be capable of casting a 9th level spell if you had a 9th level spell slot. Notice the wording of Precocious Apprentice; without the requisite caster level, you couldn't use that 2nd level spell slot, but the feat allows you to ignore that. As a bare minimum, you cannot cast a spell of a specific spell slot if your caster level is lower than (2x-1), where X is the level of the spell you intend to use.

    Thus, you need to change that at the very least, because most 1st level spells require you to at least have a caster level of 1st, which you couldn't have unless you gave full CL or fix that so that you can do so.

    Finally: in my glossary, "caster level" refers to that number that determines range, duration and sometimes effect of spells; "spellcaster level" is the effective level in the class that grants you spellcasting ability; "spell level" is the number that determines the DC of the spell plus the grade of power of the spell (with 0 the lowest and 9 the highest). Three different things.

    It's not so that you take it bad or that I don't seem to understand it (though the petition to clean up the table a bit is so that others do), it's on the rules and all I'm doing is giving ideas on how to tweak it to get what you want from the class without having troubles with the core rules of the game (because a 'brewer always has to respect the rulebooks, you know, unless your intention is to splinter from them).
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