General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

[The Rose Dragon]

Once again proving my great mechanics reading skills, is there a problem with the Lunar charmset? I've seen several people mentioning wanting a fix, but if so, what's the issue?

The simplest problem is, disregarding everything else, the Attribute-based Charm trees were new (the Lunar Charms in First Edition were also Attribute-based, but the Charm trees were not), so the Attribute minimums and Charm tree placements are odd and possibly crippling.

A more complex problem is how Lunars don't have a theme. In the First Edition, they were a hot mess of Wyld-worshipping, civilization-hating, leaf-wiping barbarians and were barely designed to be playable (their original concept was that of Exalted antagonists, so I assume no one cared that much until right before the book was finished). In the Second Edition, they tried to fix that by making their fluff more player-friendly, but in the process forgot to actually give them anything to set them apart from silver-colored Solars.

[Tavar]

Ah. Truthfully, I have noticed some of that, looking over their charms, I simply though that the areas I was looking at weren't well supported(eg, crafting)

[Cyborg Mage]

HeyguysguesswhatHOMEBREW!

This time I want to make an SMA designed to let the user rapidly and repetedly phase into/out of Elsewhere (Or some other dimension, whatever has to be done to get non-fiddly fluff) for actions such as one-on-one forced dueling or teleportation flurry attacks. Think about it. Perfect Dodges that work because, instead of avoiding an attack, you are simply not there, and crap like that. Thoughts? (Though I'll probably only work on this, and that Infernal style I had in the works, once I have a better grasp of the game.)

Also, can someone please fill in for ST here? I've already been through several games I've either failed to get into or have simply failed to start, and I'm getting sick of it. I have, so far, never played a single game of Exalted. It's irritating me to no end.

[Jokasti]

HeyguysguesswhatHOMEBREW!

This time I want to make an SMA designed to let the user rapidly and repetedly phase into/out of Elsewhere (Or some other dimension, whatever has to be done to get non-fiddly fluff) for actions such as one-on-one forced dueling or teleportation flurry attacks. Think about it. Perfect Dodges that work because, instead of avoiding an attack, you are simply not there, and crap like that. Thoughts? (Though I'll probably only work on this, and that Infernal style I had in the works, once I have a better grasp of the game.)

Also, can someone please fill in for ST here? I've already been through several games I've either failed to get into or have simply failed to start, and I'm getting sick of it. I have, so far, never played a single game of Exalted. It's irritating me to no end.

I think Revlid is working on a Portal-based space-manipulating SMA which sounds similar to what you describe.

[Lord Raziere]

The simplest problem is, disregarding everything else, the Attribute-based Charm trees were new (the Lunar Charms in First Edition were also Attribute-based, but the Charm trees were not), so the Attribute minimums and Charm tree placements are odd and possibly crippling.

A more complex problem is how Lunars don't have a theme. In the First Edition, they were a hot mess of Wyld-worshipping, civilization-hating, leaf-wiping barbarians and were barely designed to be playable (their original concept was that of Exalted antagonists, so I assume no one cared that much until right before the book was finished). In the Second Edition, they tried to fix that by making their fluff more player-friendly, but in the process forgot to actually give them anything to set them apart from silver-colored Solars.

I dunno, I got a strong shape-shifting and "for Luna!" the-

oh. thats what you mean by silver colored solars. forget it.

[Cyborg Mage]

I think Revlid is working on a Portal-based space-manipulating SMA which sounds similar to what you describe.

Darn. Ah well, saves me the work.

[ShadowFighter15]

List updated with the stuff people posted on the last page.

[Drascin]

Ah. Truthfully, I have noticed some of that, looking over their charms, I simply though that the areas I was looking at weren't well supported(eg, crafting)

There's that too. Lunar Charms have a lot of physical Charms, and they're pretty decent, while Lunar Social Charms seem to be mostly taking one solar charm and splitting its functions among two or three Lunar Charm and brainy concepts basically require fully making up new Charm trees. Compare, for example the 28 Strength Charms in the base book with the 13 Intelligence Charms, and of those Intelligence Charms, several are really of extremely limited usefulness in the average chronicle (such as the "give other Lunar tatoos" charm).

[SurlySeraph]

Would I go amiss in saying that in general Solars are Social, Lunars are Physical, and Sidereals are Mental? In terms of their fluff roles, at least?

EDIT: Also, something kinda big occurred to me.

The Sidereal Charm trees are linked to constellations.
Constellations are made of stars.
Stars represent gods.
Sidereals have several ways to make new gods.

My first thought was to expand existing Charm trees by creating new gods such that their stars merge into existing constellations. Then in a fit of OCD I looked over the picture of the constellations in the Astrology chapter of MOEP: Sidereals and determined that the number of stars in a constellation doesn't seem to be correlated with the number of charms in the linked charm tree. So I concluded that that was a nonstarter.

On the other hand, making an entirely new constellation sounds doable, and much more open in what it would allow. Of course, it probably wouldn't be intrinsically linked to one of the existing abilities, which could make the entire project a nonstarter, but with enough bureaucratic wrangling anything is possible.

So, what Caste would "Forge a new constellation according to my specifications, thus letting us make an end-run around the Maidens and make our own new Charms?" be an appropriate Motivation for?

Also, on a side note, I'm curious whether there's been any attempt to define what stars in the Constellations correspond to what gods, and whether the Breaking of the Mask involved assassinating some of its constituent gods in addition to the existing fluff about overloading it with astrology.

I've also become enamored of the idea that someone's decided "Hey, breaking the Mask worked out great. We should break more constellations! The Haywain's associated with corruption and decay, so clearly the best way to put the Celestial Bureaucracy back in order is to kill its constituent gods!"

[Xefas]

Would I go amiss in saying that in general Solars are Social, Lunars are Physical, and Sidereals are Mental? In terms of their fluff roles, at least?

Sort of. All of them were constructed as weapons to murder the Primordials, so I suppose you could say all Exalts started as "Physical", except Terrestrials, who were meant to lead armies, so I guess they were "Social"? Even the Sidereals seemed to be focusing on Kung Fu Fighting during the Primordial War.

But, after that, they needed tertiary roles so you didn't have a bunch of super weapons with itchy trigger fingers milling about getting ever more jittery and bored. So, Solars are Lawgivers - they run things. I guess that counts as Social, as they don't do so much paperwork - they just motivate other people to do paperwork really well. Sidereals are Viziers; they're supposed to be the smarty pants that make sure the Solars aren't being morons.

Lunars...well, Lunars suffer from a lack of interesting fluff and themes as it is. I guess they seem more Physical, because we don't know a lot about what they did in the First Age, and in the Second Age, they're barbarians. They have command of their "physical" form, and they're..."Stewards". Maybe they were bodyguards? Bodyguard/gold-diggers? (Hilarious pun?)

Of course, this isn't all that useful of a distinction, because Solars were also responsible for the vast ubiquitous-ness of artifacts in the First Age, which requires two maxed Mental stats. So there you go. And Sidereals were still milling about making new Kung Fu stuff.

[Sanguine]

except Terrestrials, who were meant to lead armies,

Terrestrials didn't lead armies. That's what the Solars did. Terrestrials made up the rank-and-file of the armies.

[Tavar]

Hey, someone wants to use this artifact, or a more balanced version of the artifact, in a game I'm running. A high essence, high power game, but I think this artifact might be a mite much. Advice?

Spoiler

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Daiklave of Battle
Edition: Second
Rating: ●●●●●
Category: Weapon
Commitment: 10 motes
Magical Material: Orichalcum
Source: RRimmel

As one of the legendary blades forged in the First Age, the Daiklave of Battle was forged around the same time as the Daiklave of Conquest. The Solar who forged the blade believed that while the Daiklave of Conquest was a great blade for the leader of an army, it lacked effectiveness in one on one battles and to demonstrate this a new Daiklave was forged.

The Daiklave of Battle became more powerful as the wielder's Essence increases and was considered a mark of high station for Solar's who frequently battled against the Wyld. There are only 2 known copies of this blade to exist, one as part of a matched set including a Daiklave of Conquest in the Empresses personal collection and the other was sold to a dealer in Nexus, though his current location is unknown.

The Daiklave of Battle is a standard Orichalcum Daiklave. As the wielder's Essence score increases other abilities become appearent. It has slots for 5 hearthstons.

At Essence 2 all attacks made with the Daiklave of Battle count as Holy.

At Essence 3 the wielder's DVs are increased by 1/2 his Essence score, rounded up.

At Essence 4 the Daiklave of Battle gains a pool of temporary willpower equal to the wielder's Essence. This willpower can only be used to activate combos that include melee charms, even if the combo include non-melee charms. Stunts that would normally increase the character's willpower pool can instead be used to restore this pool. This pool replenishes automatically at a rate of one point per day. If a Solar's willpower is full, additional points that would be recovered can be used to replenish this pool.

At Essnce 5, the owner gains the ability to increase the traits of the weapon by committing extra motes. Every mote committed will raise either Accuracy, Damage, Defense or Rate by one. No trait may be raised by more than the owner's Melee score.

At Essence 6 under the light of a 11+ mote Anima Banner the Daiklave of Battle undergoes a transformation. The blade glows with the light of the Unconquered Sun and simmers with his rightous fury. When this blade hits an opponent, it deals extra aggravated damage equal to the owner's essence that is unsoakable.

Against all armor the weapon gains the piercing flag, save against orichalcum armor.
Speed 5 Accuracy +4 Damage +6L Defense +4 Rate 4 Min Str 2 Tags: None

edit: One of the designers talked a bit about what the Sid's did during the war. Essentially, they were advisors, trainers, and the like. And if they went into combat with a Primordial, they died. They're charms aren't strong like a solars, and they don't have the sheer toughness of Lunars.

[TheCountAlucard]

By the way, other than that teensy-bit in the Abyssals book, has anyone published anything more on the Dowager of the Irrationally Long Title? The bit on the Well of Udr and the Mound of Seeds in the Noss Fens really sounded like I could use it, but I've yet to find anything more on it.

Also, does anyone else find it a tad unreasonable that the Well of Udr

Spoiler

Show

instantly kills you when you look into it, with no chance to prevent it unless you happen to be packing a perfect mental defense? I mean, at least in the case of the instantly-lethal traps in the Under the Rose adventure, they gave the circle of Exalts the perfect defense that'd prevent it from taking effect, y'know?

[The Rose Dragon]

Without Charms, Exalts are only slightly hardier than mortals. As such, a supernatural effect powerful enough can instantly slay an Exalt who does not prepare a proper Charm-based defense.

However, most of those effects have the Shaping keyword, and thus can be foiled by an Integrity 1, Essence 1 Charm.

[TheCountAlucard]

Without Charms, Exalts are only slightly hardier than mortals. As such, a supernatural effect powerful enough can instantly slay an Exalt who does not prepare a proper Charm-based defense.

However, most of those effects have the Shaping keyword, and thus can be foiled by an Integrity 1, Essence 1 Charm.

I'm aware of that, but the insta-gibbing done by the Well doesn't say it's Shaping, and requires a perfect mental defense to prevent. And Elusive Dream Defense is a little harder to snag than IPP.

And I gotta say, I'm just plain unfond of "you die with no roll" things in general. That's the sort of stuff that leads to the dreaded paranoia builds. And if a perfect Shaping defense is really that necessary to a character's survival, IPP should just be built into the Solar character creation process, something like, "Select nine Charms for which you meet the prerequisites, and Integrity-Protecting Prana."

[Kylarra]

And if a perfect Shaping defense is really that necessary to a character's survival, IPP should just be built into the Solar character creation process, something like, "Select nine Charms for which you meet the prerequisites, and Integrity-Protecting Prana."

Just like DBT is built into Lunar char creation.

[The Rose Dragon]

And I gotta say, I'm just plain unfond of "you die with no roll" things in general. That's the sort of stuff that leads to the dreaded paranoia builds. And if a perfect Shaping defense is really that necessary to a character's survival, IPP should just be built into the Solar character creation process, something like, "Select nine Charms for which you meet the prerequisites, and Integrity-Protecting Prana."

More like "select two Charms and Integrity-Protecting Prana, Any Integrity Excellency, Temptation-Resisting Stance, Elusive Dream Defense, Shadow Over Water, Seven Shadow Evasion, Leaping Dodge Method, Reflex Sidestep Technique, Any Dawn Caste Excellency" if you really want to go that route.

[Tavar]

Doesn't the Well have the equivalent of flashing neon warning signs? Yeah, it's a harsh penalty, but somethings deserve the penalty. Just make sure that it's obvious that this thing is bad news. It shouldn't even be that hard if you, say, have to deal with a deathlord in order to get to it.

[TheCountAlucard]

It shouldn't even be that hard if you, say, have to deal with a deathlord in order to get to it.

Actually, it's the other way around; if Dowager has to fight, she'll use her bow to harpoon people, and when that stops being a viable action, force the opposition to fight her at the Well, where she has a natural advantage.

[Tavar]

Don't they have to look into it first? Plus, I'd be hesitant about taking enemies to a place where, if they don't die, they could gain the means to destroy me.

[TheCountAlucard]

Don't they have to look into it first?

Even being around it strips dots of permanent Willpower. If that's not an advantage, something's seriously wrong.

Plus, I'd be hesitant about taking enemies to a place where, if they don't die, they could gain the means to destroy me.

...what? What means are those, exactly?

Oh, and concerning the "flashing neon signs," they might just attribute that to the Deathlord herself...

[Reynard]

Hey, someone wants to use this artifact, or a more balanced version of the artifact, in a game I'm running. A high essence, high power game, but I think this artifact might be a mite much. Advice?

Spoiler

Show

Daiklave of Battle
Edition: Second
Rating: ●●●●●
Category: Weapon
Commitment: 10 motes
Magical Material: Orichalcum
Source: RRimmel

As one of the legendary blades forged in the First Age, the Daiklave of Battle was forged around the same time as the Daiklave of Conquest. The Solar who forged the blade believed that while the Daiklave of Conquest was a great blade for the leader of an army, it lacked effectiveness in one on one battles and to demonstrate this a new Daiklave was forged.

The Daiklave of Battle became more powerful as the wielder's Essence increases and was considered a mark of high station for Solar's who frequently battled against the Wyld. There are only 2 known copies of this blade to exist, one as part of a matched set including a Daiklave of Conquest in the Empresses personal collection and the other was sold to a dealer in Nexus, though his current location is unknown.

The Daiklave of Battle is a standard Orichalcum Daiklave. As the wielder's Essence score increases other abilities become appearent. It has slots for 5 hearthstons.

At Essence 2 all attacks made with the Daiklave of Battle count as Holy.

At Essence 3 the wielder's DVs are increased by 1/2 his Essence score, rounded up.

At Essence 4 the Daiklave of Battle gains a pool of temporary willpower equal to the wielder's Essence. This willpower can only be used to activate combos that include melee charms, even if the combo include non-melee charms. Stunts that would normally increase the character's willpower pool can instead be used to restore this pool. This pool replenishes automatically at a rate of one point per day. If a Solar's willpower is full, additional points that would be recovered can be used to replenish this pool.

At Essnce 5, the owner gains the ability to increase the traits of the weapon by committing extra motes. Every mote committed will raise either Accuracy, Damage, Defense or Rate by one. No trait may be raised by more than the owner's Melee score.

At Essence 6 under the light of a 11+ mote Anima Banner the Daiklave of Battle undergoes a transformation. The blade glows with the light of the Unconquered Sun and simmers with his rightous fury. When this blade hits an opponent, it deals extra aggravated damage equal to the owner's essence that is unsoakable.

Against all armor the weapon gains the piercing flag, save against orichalcum armor.
Speed 5 Accuracy +4 Damage +6L Defense +4 Rate 4 Min Str 2 Tags: None

edit: One of the designers talked a bit about what the Sid's did during the war. Essentially, they were advisors, trainers, and the like. And if they went into combat with a Primordial, they died. They're charms aren't strong like a solars, and they don't have the sheer toughness of Lunars.

Kill it with fire.

[Kylarra]

Hey, someone wants to use this artifact, or a more balanced version of the artifact, in a game I'm running. A high essence, high power game, but I think this artifact might be a mite much. Advice?

Spoiler

Show

Daiklave of Battle
Edition: Second
Rating: ●●●●●
Category: Weapon
Commitment: 10 motes
Magical Material: Orichalcum
Source: RRimmel

As one of the legendary blades forged in the First Age, the Daiklave of Battle was forged around the same time as the Daiklave of Conquest. The Solar who forged the blade believed that while the Daiklave of Conquest was a great blade for the leader of an army, it lacked effectiveness in one on one battles and to demonstrate this a new Daiklave was forged.

The Daiklave of Battle became more powerful as the wielder's Essence increases and was considered a mark of high station for Solar's who frequently battled against the Wyld. There are only 2 known copies of this blade to exist, one as part of a matched set including a Daiklave of Conquest in the Empresses personal collection and the other was sold to a dealer in Nexus, though his current location is unknown.

The Daiklave of Battle is a standard Orichalcum Daiklave. As the wielder's Essence score increases other abilities become appearent. It has slots for 5 hearthstons.

At Essence 2 all attacks made with the Daiklave of Battle count as Holy.

At Essence 3 the wielder's DVs are increased by 1/2 his Essence score, rounded up.

At Essence 4 the Daiklave of Battle gains a pool of temporary willpower equal to the wielder's Essence. This willpower can only be used to activate combos that include melee charms, even if the combo include non-melee charms. Stunts that would normally increase the character's willpower pool can instead be used to restore this pool. This pool replenishes automatically at a rate of one point per day. If a Solar's willpower is full, additional points that would be recovered can be used to replenish this pool.

At Essnce 5, the owner gains the ability to increase the traits of the weapon by committing extra motes. Every mote committed will raise either Accuracy, Damage, Defense or Rate by one. No trait may be raised by more than the owner's Melee score.

At Essence 6 under the light of a 11+ mote Anima Banner the Daiklave of Battle undergoes a transformation. The blade glows with the light of the Unconquered Sun and simmers with his rightous fury. When this blade hits an opponent, it deals extra aggravated damage equal to the owner's essence that is unsoakable.

Against all armor the weapon gains the piercing flag, save against orichalcum armor.
Speed 5 Accuracy +4 Damage +6L Defense +4 Rate 4 Min Str 2 Tags: None

edit: One of the designers talked a bit about what the Sid's did during the war. Essentially, they were advisors, trainers, and the like. And if they went into combat with a Primordial, they died. They're charms aren't strong like a solars, and they don't have the sheer toughness of Lunars.

It's ridiculous. Don't let them.

[Tavar]

It's ridiculous. Don't let them.

Kill it with fire.

So...any suggestions on how to make it balanced? Or, if it really is a hopeless cause, how to make an artifact that gets more powerful with the user, and make it decent?

Just to be clear, I wasn't worried about the first, essence two ability. At least, not in the game it's for. In normal games, probably make it cost 1 mote to activate as a reflexive, non-charm activation power.

But after that...Holy crap. Massive improvements to DV's, More Willpower. Boosting the artifact's stats for cheap.... It's just too good. And that's a toned down version from the original.

Even being around it strips dots of permanent Willpower. If that's not an advantage, something's seriously wrong.

You're fight a deathlord in their personal place of power. You're going to need hefty defences. I'd probably weaken that somewhat. Give a slightly less painful way to escape it for essence weilders, as well as make that only happen if the targets have less than X Mental Dodge Defense.

...what? What means are those, exactly?

Isn't the well where the Great Contagion started? She hasn't found anything really useful since then, but that's a big risk.

Oh, and concerning the "flashing neon signs," they might just attribute that to the Deathlord herself...

If you're attacking the person in their main base of operations, then about half the signs refer not to the villain, but their defenses and traps and such.

[TheCountAlucard]

I'd probably weaken that somewhat. Give a slightly less painful way to escape it for essence weilders, as well as make that only happen if the targets have less than X Mental Dodge Defense.

Well, the losing-Willpower bit technically works subtracting your MDV from ten; any remainder is directly removed from your permanent Willpower. So, you could be immune to that part simply by dint of having an MDV of 10+.

Isn't the well where the Great Contagion started?

That's where she summoned it, yes, but what's that got to do with destroying her?

She hasn't found anything really useful since then, but that's a big risk.

How?

[SurlySeraph]

*Five hearthstone slots? I don't see much brokenness you can do with that, granted, but why five?
*Pretty nice base stats. Piercing, though? Oy.
*Essence 2: All attacks count as Holy? That's pretty nice, especially at Essence 2.
*Essence 3: 1/2 Essence to DVs in addition to having +4 Defense? Pretty nice, but not ludicrous.
*Essence 4: A temporary Willpower pool that stop right there. This is too useful for paranoia combat to be reasonable. Reserve of Will is for spirits and other things that need the help.
*Essence 5: So a bit like Infinite Melee Master-ing 5 motes on the First Melee Excellency forever, above your normal dice cap, but to just one stat of your weapon. But then you can increase your Rate. If rate is capped at 5 as usual, this is plausible for an Essence 5 effect, but I'm leery of it.
*Essence 6: Eh, it's at Essence 6. Looks reasonable there.

In conclusion, maybe it would be OK if you took out the extra combos-only Willpower pool, had to do maintenance and use a Hearthstone to power it like with Celestial Battle Armor, and also fluffed it to be a big "I'M A VERY POWERFUL ANATHEMA SEND WARSTRIDERS" beacon like with CBA. But "It's not all that much more powerful than Celestial Battle Armor" is not exactly a ringing endorsement.

[Tavar]

By my understanding, by looking into the well, you see things. Anything you can see, you can potentially bring through the well, into creation. The Well can show extremely powerful things, as evidenced by the Great Contagion. Thus, you can pull something powerful out of the well. Perhaps something that could destroy a deathlord. Thus, it's a risk. Especially against beings who have the means to do it.

[Xefas]

So, I just finished my very first Martial Arts style (the first one I feel like is worth posting, anyway). I'll just leave this here.



"Yeah, I could probably beat up, like, fifty ten-year-olds." ~ Mr. Satan, master of the Dolorous Carnifex Style

[Kyeudo]

As you might or might not know, I've been working away trying to come up with a way to put some more teeth into social combat without making it so a social character can mind control yours into doing whatever they say. I'd like to know how much I've failed.

What I've done is here. I think I've got a good balance between influencing behavior and being able to playing your own character and that this is fairly workable. This fix is not meant to model anything other than an argument or a debate - when these rules come out, two or more characters should be trying to convince each other that they are right and the other guy is wrong. Any negotiations or collaborating between characters is not supported by this and should be handled by roleplaying. I also have not yet done any work with Charms. This is purely laying a foundation upon which to build later.

Any comments or criticism would be appreciated.

[The Rose Dragon]

So, game idea: Each and every mortal and Exalt was killed by the Great Contagion 2.0, except for 700 children, now aged 8-14. They are raised and taught by Dragon Kings in a distant manse hidden and secured from the various supernatural monsters that want to kill those children and groomed to inherit the Exaltations left behind.

Also, those children are responsible for repopulating Creation.