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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    I meant more "can they 'extrude' jouten in the forms they already know of" and how.

    Second bit is useful to know.
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  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    Okay, so a primordial related question. How to they create new jouten, and what's the interconnection level between them? In short, is it sufficient to kill (any) one jouten to activate ghost eater and put the neverborn hurt on a titan, or is there a specific form you need to kill.
    So far as I understand it, you need to kill only one of the joutens and activate a spirit-killing effect to slay a Primordial.

    This generally isn't a problem, though, because I believe all Primordials/Yozis only have a single personal body (The Ebon Dragon, Adorjan), have a world-body (Szoreny, Autochthon), or have one of each (Gaia, Malfeas). I don't believe we've seen a Primordial with more then two joutens or more then one of each type.

    That's just what we've seen, though. It's quite possible there is more.

    And there's no mention of how they make jouten in the Ebon Dragon's write-up, which contains all of the Yozi charms, so I would assume they come into being at the same time the Yozi does.
    Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-01-23 at 08:16 PM.
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  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    What would happen to the world-body jouten if the personal body jouten was ghost eater'd? Would it merge into the same Neverborn tomb-body, or wink out of existence, or somehow live on, or what?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    What would happen to the world-body jouten if the personal body jouten was ghost eater'd? Would it merge into the same Neverborn tomb-body, or wink out of existence, or somehow live on, or what?
    When a Primordial dies, all of its Charms are twisted into whatever remains as a Neverborn, so the world-body would die as well.

  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Brings up a good point. Purely speculative; if you were to somehow kill Malfeas' Demon City World-Body, in which all the other Yozi are housed (except maybe Cecelyne - but she's anchored to it), what would happen to everyone else? He's supposedly their "prison", so would each Yozi just sort of float off into Elsewhere, forming their own separate world? Would some first age failsafe activate and have another Yozi nomnomnom all the others up and form a new prison-realm?

  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Or they all freak out because they're all suddenly living in a dead guy falling slowly into oblivion with no means of escape.
    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
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  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    So, would somehow destroying the Games of Divinity without destroying Creation be a good thing or a bad thing?

  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris Strife View Post
    So, would somehow destroying the Games of Divinity without destroying Creation be a good thing or a bad thing?
    Well, there's no easy answer, as I'm fairly certain that, canon-wise, you can't (which just means it's up to the purview of the Storyteller to figure something else).

    Even speculation is difficult, as there are conflicting theories about what the Games actually are. Some say that it's just the Divine Opium Den (with various theories about why the Primordials made such a thing), in which case destroying it would probably be a good thing. Some say it's an integral part of Creation, and that entities of Primordial or Incarna level power must constantly be playing it to keep the world from falling apart (this is if you want a less GRIMDARK setting, in which the Unconquered Sun isn't a crack addict). In that case, it would be bad.

    So, really, it's up to you.

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    AFAIK, it is specifically said that the Games are NOT integral to creation. Think that's the only thing we know for a fact.

    I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  10. - Top - End - #250
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Isn't Creation supposed to be the power source for the Games, which are inherently so addictive that the Incarnae don't care about Creation?

  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    In Return of the Scarlet Empress, it specifically mentioned giving different vulnerabilities to Sol Invictus "...especially in a series where playing the Games of Divinity helps sustain the universe and is, therefore, not intrinsically intemperate."

    To me, this means that the writer thinks its up for debate.

  12. - Top - End - #252
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Oh, okay, I could easily be wrong. xD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  13. - Top - End - #253
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Oh, okay, I could easily be wrong. xD
    Well, like I said, I think they want it to be up for debate on a game-by-game basis. Some games will be churning cesspits of despair and horror where even the most righteous of the Gods are all terminally stupid, crack addicted bastards, the wonders of the First Age will never be reclaimed again, Gaia is searching for the solution to Creation's problems in vain because there is no solution, everything is spiraling ever faster towards oblivion, nothing you do will ever matter towards anything, and the best you can hope for is that one of your friends puts a knife in your back before you get the chance to go insane and beat your wife to death for not doing the dishes fast enough.

    Some games will have a team of Godbloods with the Beast Form (Pony) debility that go and teach the Ebon Dragon the true meaning of friendship.

  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Some games will have a team of Godbloods with the Beast Form (Pony) debility that go and teach the Ebon Dragon the true meaning of friendship.
    ...
    Please?
    Someone make this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  15. - Top - End - #255
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    You'd probably seduce him into goodness.


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  16. - Top - End - #256
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Nope. The ED is a ----. He doesn't deserve to get seduced by the Lix.
    ANY other Yozi/primordial/deathlord/villain? Sure!
    ...except the Dowager. Hate her so much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  17. - Top - End - #257
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Aw. Poor Ebon Dragon. I'm sure that he really just wants to be loved.

    *is backstabbed*

    ghost: *******!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanaya View Post
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  18. - Top - End - #258
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    (frontstabs ED)
    Yeah, that's right. Not even empowering you with your death.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  19. - Top - End - #259
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Yay! My hero!

    *Is bound into soulsteel by a passing abbysal*

    *********!!!!!!!

    Which goes to show that mortals are always, inevitably, screwed. Even in death.

    EDIT: Also, get on AIM so I have someone to talk to. Please? It's lonely in this daiklaive!
    Last edited by Random_person; 2011-01-24 at 07:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanaya View Post
    Random_person thinks of everything.
    If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.

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  20. - Top - End - #260
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Well Random, you could always respond to the PM I sent you the other day.

  21. - Top - End - #261
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    An intriguing proposal. I shall have to ponder long and hard on the idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanaya View Post
    Random_person thinks of everything.
    If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.

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  22. - Top - End - #262
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Quote Originally Posted by Random_person View Post
    Yay! My hero!

    *Is bound into soulsteel by a passing abbysal*

    *********!!!!!!!

    Which goes to show that mortals are always, inevitably, screwed. Even in death.

    EDIT: Also, get on AIM so I have someone to talk to. Please? It's lonely in this daiklaive!
    Awwww. As soon as I get home from school iiiin a little under two hours?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  23. - Top - End - #263
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    So, I had a very interesting debate on the nature of the Yozi. Specifically, how limited are they by their nature. This matters, as I mentioned how (myself included) many feel some sympathy for the Yozi, but also that the Ebon Dragon often doesn't get this sympathy. The other began to question the difference that makes the others worthy of sympathy/pity, and not him, and in the end I was unable to really give a good answer. So, anyone else have a good one?
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  24. - Top - End - #264
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Simple. Most of the Yozis were at least decently moral as Primordials. Shadow that Was, not so much. He's the least deformed of the Yozis. What does that tell you about his "former" incarnation?
    Last edited by Cyborg Mage; 2011-01-24 at 12:09 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #265
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyborg Mage View Post
    Simple. Most of the Yozis were at least decently moral as Primordials. Shadow that Was, not so much. He's the least deformed of the Yozis. What does that tell you about his "former" incarnation?
    Dragon's Shadow, not the Shadow That Was. Which is weird, because other Primordials did not change their names unless they underwent fetich death, so he should still be called Dragon's Shadow.

    EDIT: Also, a question to STs / would-be STs: how much do you enforce the language barriers of Creation? I, for one, tend to be quite strict about it and make sure all characters share a language, but others may not feel the same way.
    Last edited by The Rose Dragon; 2011-01-24 at 12:36 PM.
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  26. - Top - End - #266
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Because being true to your nature and being sympathetic are not the same thing, nor even related. I don't care if something that killed and ate my grandma was acting purely on instinct, I want it gone because it's dangerous and hurt my feelings (to say nothing of my grandma's).

    If something is a thing you hate intrinsically, the fact it cannot be other doesn't get it a free pass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
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  27. - Top - End - #267
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon View Post
    EDIT: Also, a question to STs / would-be STs: how much do you enforce the language barriers of Creation? I, for one, tend to be quite strict about it and make sure all characters share a language, but others may not feel the same way.
    No. See, he used to be the literal shadow of a dragon. There was something flying around that looks just like the Ebon Dragon does today, but that was the shadow of the real Primordial, who was the shadow that thing cast. When the Ebon Dragon was made into a Yozi, he stopped being a shadow and started being the dragon.

    Now, his title - "The Shadow of All Things" - that still applies and has always applied, because he has always been defined by his opposition to all things true, noble, and good. Of course, truth, nobility, and goodness were all ideas that the Ebon Dragon had put into Creation, including free will, because he wants to subvert all of those concepts.

  28. - Top - End - #268
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon View Post
    EDIT: Also, a question to STs / would-be STs: how much do you enforce the language barriers of Creation? I, for one, tend to be quite strict about it and make sure all characters share a language, but others may not feel the same way.
    I forced all my players to share a language for simplicity's sake.
    BEEP.

  29. - Top - End - #269
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    Now, his title - "The Shadow of All Things" - that still applies and has always applied, because he has always been defined by his opposition to all things true, noble, and good. Of course, truth, nobility, and goodness were all ideas that the Ebon Dragon had put into Creation, including free will, because he wants to subvert all of those concepts.
    Imagine the shinma. They define their concepts by embodying the exact opposites.
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  30. - Top - End - #270
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

    So, I did mention I'm reading GWM, which is really cool but a damn lot of stuff. Anyone who is up to date on the Fae can tell me how you go about actually forging Oaths and Oneiromancies and such other Grace arti-magics? I seem to be missing something. Or is it just a matter of normal Craft (perhaps with Glamour)?
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