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  1. - Top - End - #1111
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Candle Jack View Post
    I thought the presence of the spoiler itself was a sufficient hint that there was a new strip. Why else does anyone spoiler their posts?
    Because they've been hanging around the OotS forum too much, and think that the "spoiler-tag all speculation" rule applies to other comics too?
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  2. - Top - End - #1112
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Candle Jack View Post
    So how much XP would you get for escaping a trap like that?
    It's equivalent to a Compacting Room trap, so XP for a CR 6 encounter.

  3. - Top - End - #1113
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dexam View Post
    It's equivalent to a Compacting Room trap, so XP for a CR 6 encounter.
    I dunno, the details of that trap include only a 12d6 crush attack (this seems to be a bit more lethal than that), and I'd argue the hidden switch bypass here is worth a CR boost because of the way it works ("Oh hey, I found the switch! Crap now the switch is gone!")

    I'd say those details boost it from CR6 up to a CR8 or 9 at least.
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  4. - Top - End - #1114
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    I get the feeling that Herbert is the kind of GM who doesn't give XP for traps.

  5. - Top - End - #1115
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadManSleeping View Post
    I get the feeling that Herbert is the kind of GM who doesn't give XP for traps.
    He gives it for good role playing, why not for traps?

  6. - Top - End - #1116
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    *shudder*

    Slow agonizing deathtraps always give me the jibblies. Just imagining the fear and inevitability and then the pain and death just freaks me out. I would have been happier with a cutaway to the main party and some screams from the background with a "Looks like they didn't make it" thing. I guess the point of this strip, besides cementing the goth party's fate, is to show how brutal the dungeon can be. Even so, I'm put ill at ease. I got to go medicate myself with some ponies to counteract the grimdark.
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  7. - Top - End - #1117
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Actually, I kind of like the fact that he showed how deadly this dungeon is. After all, there has to be a reason that its taken them 2 million tries to beat it so far. It cant be just that they were dumber, or slower, or lower level, its that every mistake is deadly in this dungeon. Oh, and just to clarify, that linked cr6 trap, is it a guaranteed kill if it connects? Or is it possible mister meat shield has the hp pool to survive a direct hit?

  8. - Top - End - #1118
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    I dunno, the details of that trap include only a 12d6 crush attack (this seems to be a bit more lethal than that), and I'd argue the hidden switch bypass here is worth a CR boost because of the way it works ("Oh hey, I found the switch! Crap now the switch is gone!")

    I'd say those details boost it from CR6 up to a CR8 or 9 at least.
    I'd say this trap is underpowered compared to existing CR 8 and CR 9 traps. Around level 9, when you would expect to be encountering those sorts of traps, the options for overcoming become easier (Dimension Door, Disintegrate, Acid Orb a hole in the door, BDF uses Adamantine weapon, etc).

    Change the damage from 12d6 crush to 14d6 piercing/slashing (~50% chance of Massive Damage), and the trigger bypass is an Int or Wis check (or Confusion-type spell for instant success) instead of Search check... let's call it CR 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Oh, and just to clarify, that linked cr6 trap, is it a guaranteed kill if it connects? Or is it possible mister meat shield has the hp pool to survive a direct hit?
    Guaranteed kill (save or die) type traps usually have a high CR. This one is direct damage with no miss, so the HP pool meat shield could concievably survive.

  9. - Top - End - #1119
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    So was evil Kin dumber/slower than real Kin? It took her much longer to figure out how the trap worked (while Minmax and Forgath didn't do much different aside from argue) and by the time she did, it was pretty much far too late.

    I guess she just argued with Forgath during the entire "period of discovery" for the other team, then?

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  10. - Top - End - #1120
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Neoriceisgood View Post
    So was evil Kin dumber/slower than real Kin?
    Not so much dumber/slower, but yeah, it could easily be. After all, we know that the various groups present characters with very different abilities
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  11. - Top - End - #1121
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Neoriceisgood View Post
    So was evil Kin dumber/slower than real Kin? It took her much longer to figure out how the trap worked (while Minmax and Forgath didn't do much different aside from argue) and by the time she did, it was pretty much far too late.

    I guess she just argued with Forgath during the entire "period of discovery" for the other team, then?
    She was distracted by other party members. This page shows similiarities and differences between both groups quite well.
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  12. - Top - End - #1122
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Am I the only one annoyed by how easily they grasped the confusion aspect of the door? "The door opened. It must be because of confusion!" It seems... too farfetch'd.

  13. - Top - End - #1123
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    She was distracted by other party members. This page shows similiarities and differences between both groups quite well.
    Ah yeah! At the end of that page good Kin was confused, while bad Kin was angry; that makes sense, that's the point where the two groups went in a fundamentally different direction, because their door never opened.

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  14. - Top - End - #1124
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    It's more than that. The regular Kin literally finished Gothkin's statements in that comic, the only difference being that Gothkin gets interrupted midway. And Gothkin's revelations later on are almost word for word the same as regular Kin's, barring context.

  15. - Top - End - #1125
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryring View Post
    Am I the only one annoyed by how easily they grasped the confusion aspect of the door? "The door opened. It must be because of confusion!" It seems... too farfetch'd.
    Kin grasped it. Kin is exceptionally intelligent.
    Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2011-03-16 at 11:27 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #1126
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryring View Post
    Am I the only one annoyed by how easily they grasped the confusion aspect of the door? "The door opened. It must be because of confusion!" It seems... too farfetch'd.
    I honestly don't see it trapping alot of people. The average person would just be happy that the door opened instead of try and figure out why it did.
    Last edited by Jahkaivah; 2011-03-16 at 12:26 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #1127
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jahkaivah View Post
    I honestly don't see it trapping alot of people. The average person would just be happy that the door opened instead of try and figure out why it did.
    It requires a certain amount of confusion for it to open sufficiently that people can get through the doorway.

  18. - Top - End - #1128
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jahkaivah View Post
    I honestly don't see it trapping alot of people. The average person would just be happy that the door opened instead of try and figure out why it did.
    Yeah, I agree. I mean, does anyone imagine a player in a game (not that Kin is a player-controlled character) ever linking a trap's mechanisms to their own inner emotional/mental state?

  19. - Top - End - #1129
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Isn't it at all possible that the maze created that room specifically to mess with the Kins who are probably mostly super-intelligent(aside from DumbKin with WizMax)?
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  20. - Top - End - #1130
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryring View Post
    Am I the only one annoyed by how easily they grasped the confusion aspect of the door? "The door opened. It must be because of confusion!" It seems... too farfetch'd.
    It seems perfectly logical to me. It's not "the door opened, it must be because of confusion", but rather "Huh, why'd it open?" *door immediately opens more* "... interesting timing there..." *door closes* "... oh."

    The fact that the door opens further immediately when Kin starts wondering why it opened at all is an enormous clue that any really smart person will likely pick up on very quickly. If there were a significant time delay it would be a very different matter, but the immediate response makes the connection easy to notice and figure out.
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  21. - Top - End - #1131
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marnath View Post
    Isn't it at all possible that the maze created that room specifically to mess with the Kins who are probably mostly super-intelligent(aside from DumbKin with WizMax)?
    Maybe not so much super intelligent as over-analytical, but yeah this seems specifically designed to punish Kin.
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  22. - Top - End - #1132
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    It's not entirely unfeasible that the Maze of Many creates obstacles that are specifically designed against the entreé's weaknesses. It wouldn't surprise me if we saw a trap that targeted Forgath's or MinMax's weaknesses.
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  23. - Top - End - #1133
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    It's not entirely unfeasible that the Maze of Many creates obstacles that are specifically designed against the entreé's weaknesses. It wouldn't surprise me if we saw a trap that targeted Forgath's or MinMax's weaknesses.
    Complex math! NO!

    Nah, it'd probably be something like a small child in danger, wherein saving him would take too much time and they'd have no chance of completing the dungeon first (or at least no chance of getting out of the room in time.)

  24. - Top - End - #1134
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    It's not entirely unfeasible that the Maze of Many creates obstacles that are specifically designed against the entreé's weaknesses. It wouldn't surprise me if we saw a trap that targeted Forgath's or MinMax's weaknesses.
    So there's going to be a trap where everyone has to recite a rhyme while winking?
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  25. - Top - End - #1135
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    It more turns a strength into a weakness.


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  26. - Top - End - #1136
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    It's not entirely unfeasible that the Maze of Many creates obstacles that are specifically designed against the entreé's weaknesses. It wouldn't surprise me if we saw a trap that targeted Forgath's or MinMax's weaknesses.
    I do not think that word means what you think it means.

  27. - Top - End - #1137

    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    But we understand what he means nonetheless. and isn't that the most imported part of a language, to bring across ideas.

  28. - Top - End - #1138
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    If the door opened up completely at the first hint of confusion, id agree that it was a stupid trap. The fact that it only opens up part way, then when you question why it did it opens the rest of the way, is what makes it truly fiendish. That makes it almost impossible to NOT figure it out, which ruins the confusion aspect.

    On the other hand, most people, when stuck in a death trap, wouldnt bother to take time to look a gift horse in the mouth. "THE DOORS HALF OPEN! RUN!" Sort of like how goth max acted. He didnt waste time THINKING about it, he just went for it. But when its a bunch of role players who have time to think in between actions, it becomes a really deadly trap.

  29. - Top - End - #1139
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    So if that is the case (which i find unlikely) Then this trap played on Kin's super intelligence, by making it so the more she knew about the trap, the less likely it was for them to get through.

    So what, Minmax needs to get into a fight, or do something involving strength, only to find the harder he fights, the more likely the chance of them dieing is?
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    Default Re: Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Happy View Post
    But we understand what he means nonetheless. and isn't that the most imported part of a language, to bring across ideas.
    Yes, but proper vocabulary is often extremely important. For instance, I'm sure you meant "important" rather than "imported". In the subject post, it matters even more, because "entreé's" could actually be a joke, or it could a mistake and he really meant "entrants", since both could feasibly apply to the situation.

    tl;dr - Word choice matters. Deal with it.
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