Goblins V: It's Hard-Kore!

[LOTRfan]

Would somebody be kind enough to explain the short story Thunt posted? I think I'm missing a pun....

Its Plants vs. Zombies, one of the more memorable games by PopCap Games. Its quite enjoyable (if a little weird...).

[Draconi Redfir]

*Even more wordz*

Except Kin herself said there is only one maze. I think a more logical thing to think is there is no such thing as a group that can never win. Since there is an infinite amount of possible opponents, eventually there will be one that will either help said team pass out of charity, or just be even worse then them. Then infinity repeats, and an even worse team appear, and so on. There is no worst of the worst since there is an infinite number of realities.

Also: It's possible that while an infinite number of FMK's entered the sword, it simply keeps the ones not currently in use in "storage" until such a time comes up as they may enter for the very first time.

[JonestheSpy]

That last part is the most important one along with the brassmoon escape. If minmax and company hadnt shown up, every goblin there would have died, and likely he would have tracked down the home camp of the gobbos as well. So instead of the warband getting wiped out, in the end the entire tribe would have been slaughtered.

Not necessarily. The one thing the goblins have going for them is Kore's fame. If the fortune teller had predicted Kore was showing up instead of a bunch of 1st levels adventurers, they probably would have packed up and run for it.

If they weren't warned it'd be a bit trickier, but some still might have survived, especially if Thaco poked his head out of his hut and said "Frack! It's Kore! Everyone run!!" Now they wouldn't have known Kore could speak to the dead and find their home village, but they'd most likely move faster and reach the village first, and if they were smart move the vilage completely on the off chance Kore could follow them.

[Draconi Redfir]

*Even more wordz*

Except Kin herself said there is only one maze. I think a more logical thing to think is there is no such thing as a group that can never win. Since there is an infinite amount of possible opponents, eventually there will be one that will either help said team pass out of charity, or just be even worse then them. Then infinity repeats, and an even worse team appear, and so on. There is no worst of the worst since there is an infinite number of realities.

Also: It's possible that while an infinite number of FMK's entered the sword, it simply keeps the ones not currently in use in "storage" until such a time comes up as they may enter for the very first time.

[TheStranger]

*Wordz, wordz, wordz.*

Well, from the perspective of any given group in the Maze, there is only one Maze, so that's how Kin's source of information would have perceived it. And from the perspective of an observer within the Maze, time does move in a normal, linear fashion and causality remains more or less normal. I don't think we have enough information to discount the possibility of a Maze that exists in multiple independent iterations. I don't think we have any real evidence for it, either - I just like the idea.

I agree that no group will have a 0% chance of success if they're pitted against another group. In the challenge we've seen, however, the obstacle was environmental and each group had to succeed or fail on their own, and an outcome where both groups failed or both groups succeeded was possible. Yes, they could interact in a limited way, but it's unclear whether one group could give meaningful aid to another. The fact that the door is opened by confusion makes it unlikely that any group would be completely unable to succeed (except maybe FMK reality 1011110001, robot FMK), but we don't know anything about the nature of the other challenges in the Maze.

It's certainly possible, maybe even probable, that the Maze is designed so that no challenge is unbeatable for any group, but we've only seen one challenge. It doesn't really matter, though. If there is only one Maze, feeding groups through in a sequential manner, the Maze would tend to collect those groups least likely to succeed. Given enough iterations, I would expect "no-winner" outcomes to be increasingly common. As the number of iterations approached infinity, the probability of a "no-winner" outcome should approach 100% (which provides perhaps the only plausible explanation for 2 million failed attempts).

[Draconi Redfir]

I think you are forgetting free will, just because time is resetting and you don’t remember your previous experiences doesn’t mean you are going to do the same thing over and over. Sure you might if this were groundhog day, but you KNOW for a fact that this is happening, so you might try all sorts of different ways of trying it without even realising.

Though again i refuse to believe there will ever be a 100% failure rate for the entire maze, eventually someone, somewhere, will either make friends/give advice to another alternate reality, possibly via shuffling of who can communicate with who, or possibly even through sheer dumb luck. Perhaps the only reason Gothkin didn’t figure it out this time was because Gothmax was busy fighting with our Max, and she couldn’t focus. Had they been paired with say zombiemax, chances are likely they would have been able to pass no problem.


Though now that i think about it, don't think the zombie team has any chance, unless they are intelligent to a degree and can still get confused.

[Sarco_Phage]

Also, sure we like MinMax and Forgath when we get to know them, but wouldn't it be better for a certain tribe of goblins had they never existed at all?

Certainly, but a big part of their character arc is them learning that the monstrous races aren't so bad at all. They aren't just XP fodder, they're actual people too with lives and whatnot.

Forgath is likely going to make the conversion first, MinMax is starting to show signs as well, especially his whole dynamic with Kin.

[chionophile]

New comic is up. We're back to Dies and Co.

[Weimann]

I was going to get annoyed that he swapped from MFK but this page was actually funny.

[Agi Hammerthief]

tehehe, mildly amusing

[Giggling Ghast]

I notice these dungeons are all long on puzzles and short on encounters.

[Agi Hammerthief]

I notice these dungeons are all long on puzzles and short on encounters.

monsters are so expensive on the upkeep, especially in dungeons that hardly anyone gets into.

[Traab]

I notice these dungeons are all long on puzzles and short on encounters.

Come on, last time we were with dies horribly, they had to fight swarms of mechanical creatures that made lizard boy question his sexuality! It doesnt get better than that! And as far as minmax and crew goes, its been one single room so far. Give it time.

[Weimann]

Well, given the way Thunt makes them, I see no reason for that to be a bad thing.

[Agi Hammerthief]

Well, given the way Thunt makes them, I see no reason for that to be a bad thing.

it only turns bad if a whole party used INT as a dump stat

[Strawberries]

Eheh. The new update reminds me of every dicussion about colors I ever had with every male in my life. Why is that that boys only know the primary colors?

I'm totally generalizing for the sake of fun. Please don't be offended if you are male and know more colors than red, blue, green and yellow.

[Claudius Maximus]

Green is not a primary color.

Anyway I think it's been pretty much definitively proven that ladies are better with colors, so you're probably right.

[Ialdabaoth]

Green is not a primary color.

Anyway I think it's been pretty much definitively proven that ladies are better with colors, so you're probably right.

Actually, neurologically it is. The way our eyes process color, the primary "colors" are arranged into three sets of opposites: Red/Green, Yellow/Blue, and Black/White.

[memnarch]

Green is not a primary color.

Anyway I think it's been pretty much definitively proven that ladies are better with colors, so you're probably right.

Only if you're thinking of the artist's colour wheel. Green is one of the primary additive colours, the other two being red and blue. For subtractive colours, Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow are the primary colours.

[Marnath]

Eheh. The new update reminds me of every dicussion about colors I ever had with every male in my life. Why is that that boys only know the primary colors?

I'm totally generalizing for the sake of fun. Please don't be offended if you are male and know more colors than red, blue, green and yellow.

Part of it is the fact that colorblindness is substantially higher in males, like 18-20% vs I think 0.5% in females. It's not necessarily noticeable, since you can get shade blindess, like me, which makes it hard or impossible to distinguish certain shades. Like sea blue vs sky blue. Note that this form of color blind still sees red and green. So that solves it for many guys. I assume the others are being obstinate or something? I wouldn't know...

[WalkingTarget]

Eheh. The new update reminds me of every dicussion about colors I ever had with every male in my life. Why is that that boys only know the primary colors?

I'm totally generalizing for the sake of fun. Please don't be offended if you are male and know more colors than red, blue, green and yellow.

Keeping the friendly nature of your post in mind: because the fine gradations aren't often "useful" information. Noting the differences is largely a cultural phenomenon and outside of fashion, graphic design/art, or decoration it's not something one really needs to know and, for the most part, guys (at least where I'm from) aren't pushed towards those interests. There are exceptions, of course, but it's not the norm.

For example: my wardrobe consists of mostly solid-color shirts and bluejeans. There are different shades of the shirt colors, but I've never been required to describe the shirt colors to people. I don't discuss fashion, it doesn't interest me. Likewise, I don't decorate my living space in a way that would require it - I buy my own stuff and see for myself if things are similar - I don't have to describe it.

I had the big box of Crayolas when I was a kid, but I've never been in a situation where I had to know that something was "burn sienna" rather than just "brown".

That's the thing with the hierarchical nature of color-words. Most of these relatively young terms fall under the purview of the basic ones. That goes both ways, though. Take a look at Russian, which has 2 basic color words that fall under our word "blue" (sinii and goluboi), Hungarian, which has 2 basic ones for "red" (piros and vörös), Japanese which until relatively recently didn't have a separate word for "green" (midori being a shade of ao, historically), and ancient Greek used "chloros" for the color of leaves, honey, fresh twigs, and nightingales as well as other seemingly odd usages ("the wine-dark sea") that caused some linguists from the 1800s to question whether or not humanity had developed a full color sense by the time of Homer.

And now, back to the discussion of the comic.

[Claudius Maximus]

Very interesting WalkingTarget. I myself had always wondered about "wine-dark sea."

Eh, it's just metrical filler anyway. *Beaten to death by classicists*

[Gez]

Eheh. The new update reminds me of every dicussion about colors I ever had with every male in my life. Why is that that boys only know the primary colors?

I'm totally generalizing for the sake of fun. Please don't be offended if you are male and know more colors than red, blue, green and yellow.

http://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/03/color-survey-results/

[Claudius Maximus]

Also there are exactly three primary colors and I will breakdance battle anyone who says otherwise. My third grade art teacher would never lie to me.

[Tavar]

Eh, mine lied plenty to me. Or gave misinformation because the truth is 'to complex', at least for the age group.

Edit: plus, there's technically 6, 3 for pigments and 3 for light.

[Yuki Akuma]

Eheh. The new update reminds me of every dicussion about colors I ever had with every male in my life. Why is that that boys only know the primary colors?

I'm totally generalizing for the sake of fun. Please don't be offended if you are male and know more colors than red, blue, green and yellow.

Male humans' eyes pick up colours worse than female humans' eyes. Specifically, women can see red easier.

This is one of those times where you realsie "oh wait, men and women aren't exactly the same".

[Traab]

Male humans' eyes pick up colours worse than female humans' eyes. Specifically, women can see red easier.

This is one of those times where you realsie "oh wait, men and women aren't exactly the same".

I was SO tempted to quote Kindergarten Cop here but I didnt want to get in trouble from the mods.

[WalkingTarget]

Very interesting WalkingTarget. I myself had always wondered about "wine-dark sea."

I thought so too. If I'm remembering right, the current thinking is that ancient Greek terminology was more concerned with shades rather than "color" as we think about it now (the sky was often described with the same word that described bronze - meaning that it was bright and clear, not that they were the same color; Death's horse is that same "chloros" as leaves, indicating paleness, not greenness; the sea is as "dark" as wine, not the same hue).

[Claudius Maximus]

Eh, mine lied plenty to me. Or gave misinformation because the truth is 'to complex', at least for the age group.

Edit: plus, there's technically 6, 3 for pigments and 3 for light.

[Draconi Redfir]

Red, Yellow, and Blue are prime.

Green, Orange, and Purple are mixtures of two of the three primes.

Black and White are Colours.


Story over lets talk goblins.