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    Default More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Invert Spell (metamagic)
    Spell Level Increase: +1 to spell level, and another +1 per reversal (1 reversal is +2, 2 reversals makes +3, and so on. Some reversals have additional level increases.)
    Benefit: This inverts the effect of a spell in one or more of the following ways:
    - Energy types switched (Fire <-> Cold, Electricity <-> Acid, Force <-> Sonic)
    - Increase to stats -> Decrease to stats (This only works in one direction, that of Increase->Decrease. You cannot change a stat-decreasing spell to a stat-increasing one.)
    - Damaging <-> Healing (This costs +2 instead of the standard +1 per reversal)
    - Instead of adding a specific inversion, spells with durations other than instantaneous can be inverted to apply a special effect to the target. This affect is that any castings of the same spell, including all applied metamagic other than Invert Spell, are negated where the area overlaps the area of the inverted spell. This area lasts for the normal duration of the inverted spell. This is essentially an anti-specific-spell-field instead of an anti-magic field.
    - Enchantment spells can be inverted such that while they last, the target of the inverted enchantment reacts in a way opposite to the intention of any castings of the same enchantment spell. (So someone who was affected by a Charm Person spell inverted in this way would become hostile to whoever cast a normal Charm Person spell on them. (This costs +2 instead of the standard +1)

    Suggested Houserule: DM adds other inversions. Don't hesitate to bring out your wish-twisting skills here, DMs!

    Prepared spellcasters must decide which reversals they are using on spell preparation

    Spreading Maximize (Metamagic)
    Spell Level Increase: +4 to spell level
    Benefit: This acts as Maximize Spell, with the following addition:
    Any magical effects that take place in an area within 5 ft/{level of Spreading Maximized spell} of the Spreading Maximized spell for 1 round after the casting of said spell are effected as by Empower Spell.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2011-04-27 at 03:27 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Extreme Maximize seems interesting. I don't have any problems with it.

    Reverse Spell seems a bit weird. I'm not an expert on balance or anything, so I'll leave the critiquing of that to someone else. The only suggestion I have is changing the name to Invert Spell. I think it fits better.

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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Reverse Spell is awesome but I think it requires a bit of more detail...
    what about acid damage?
    illusions?
    enchantments?

    I mean the list of things to find oppisites for is endless!
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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nopraptor View Post
    Reverse Spell is awesome but I think it requires a bit of more detail...
    what about acid damage?
    illusions?
    enchantments?

    I mean the list of things to find oppisites for is endless!
    I forgot about acid, that's why I had force damage become a random one of the others, since there was an odd number. Not sure about illusions, but don't forget that you don't get all reversals of every aspect at once.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    With reversal spell's Damage<-> Healing wizards become terrifyingly effective healers.

    Fireball for example, has no real limit on creatures it can heal if they are well clumped together. Also, the Cleric's undead control spells become a joke when the same wizard can Heal-ball a horde of zombies.
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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChumpLump View Post
    With reversal spell's Damage<-> Healing wizards become terrifyingly effective healers.

    Fireball for example, has no real limit on creatures it can heal if they are well clumped together. Also, the Cleric's undead control spells become a joke when the same wizard can Heal-ball a horde of zombies.
    That's why I put an extra +1 level on the Healing-Damage inversion. Do you think it needs more? Also, is my current level-increase on that metamagic in general good, or should I make it a flat +2 per inversion, +3 for healing?
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    "Heal-ball a horde of zombies"
    Lol'd.

    But yeah, Reverse Spell seems a bit too exploitable to me. Turning a spell from personal to long range, for a +2 increase? Giving wizards the ability to AoE heal? Giving wizards a whole slew of debuffs? A bit much, but I'm not sure what could be done.
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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Welknair View Post
    "Heal-ball a horde of zombies"
    Lol'd.

    But yeah, Reverse Spell seems a bit too exploitable to me. Turning a spell from personal to long range, for a +2 increase? Giving wizards the ability to AoE heal? Giving wizards a whole slew of debuffs? A bit much, but I'm not sure what could be done.
    Maybe I should remove the range modifications.

    Also, zombies are healed by Negative energy, not "any random damging effect". The way I was thinking of it, this would mean that , for example, a Fireball with the Heal-Damage inversion would heal things that are hurt by fire, and hurt things that normally heal with fire. A Heal-Damage inverted Inflict spell would hurt undead and heal people. I'm not sure how to clarify this though, beyond a large pile of examples.
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2011-01-19 at 05:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Good points: I'd state that Invert Spell only changes some opposites.
    Hence,if applied to a spell with a range of Self,applying this metamagic at the +1 level would make the spell ONLY usable on other people, NOT on the caster. Each level of this metamagic would improve the range category one step,so making a Personal spell Long range would require a +4 level adjustment to the spell.
    As for altering damage types,Complete Arcane gave us the Energy Substitution feat, which enables casters to select a particular energy type (excluding sonic damage) for all their damaging spells and with no spell level adjustment.
    As for inverting enchantments and illusions,I'd say that such inverted spells would counteract their normal counterparts.
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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    I'm just removing the Range ones, as it's hard to see them as having clear opposites, other than Self.

    Edit: Added an Anti-this-spell inversion for spells with durations other than Instantaneous, and a do-the-opposite inversion for enchantments. THe latter would be very useful for a BBEG to cast on their mooks to stop a group of PCs who are Charming info out of them.
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2011-01-19 at 05:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    It might be easiest to create certain very specific sub-categories of spells that Inverse/Reverse Spell DOES work with, rather than trying to cover all the weirdnesses and abuses of all spells everywhere. Consider it on the following spells:

    Commune - does God get to ask you for advice?
    Grease - does it make a surface have great traction?
    Reverse Gravity - does it intensify gravity?
    Shrink Item
    Teleport
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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Teleport might become Dimensional Anchor, higher level [Teleportation] effects might become limited duration Dimension Locks.

    Shrink Item would, of course, make the item larger, but I am not sure on the details.
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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Toliudar View Post
    It might be easiest to create certain very specific sub-categories of spells that Inverse/Reverse Spell DOES work with, rather than trying to cover all the weirdnesses and abuses of all spells everywhere. Consider it on the following spells:

    Commune - does God get to ask you for advice?
    Grease - does it make a surface have great traction?
    Reverse Gravity - does it intensify gravity?
    Shrink Item
    Teleport
    I am doing that. Other than the anti-enchantment one, they are all very specific effects, which would obviously not apply to spells that do not have the properties being changed. Commune, for example, would not be affected.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    Invert Spell (metamagic)
    +1 to spell level, and another +1 per reversal (1 reversal is +2, 2 reversals makes +3, and so on)
    This inverts the effect of a spell in one or more of the following ways:
    - Energy types switched (Fire <-> Cold, Electricity <-> Sonic, Force <-> Acid)
    So... all my Acid spells can now be Force spells, and my electricity spells can now be sonic? That's quite an upgrade, as Force and Sonic are the two least common resistances... and if Spell Compendium is in play, there's some nice d6/level Acid spells.... and there's a reason energy substitution doesn't include Sonic and Force anymore...
    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    - Increase to stats <-> Decrease to stats
    This option is easily breakable. Bestow Curse is Permanent, doesn't fall to Dispel Magic, and with this, lets a 4th level spell slot once a day for three or four weeks will give the entire party +6 to all stats forever. Oh yes, and it's untyped, so stacks with standard stat boosters. And imagine what you can do with Ray of Enfeeblement on the party fighter. 2nd level spell effect, 1d6+1 per two caster levels (so 1d6+5 at 10th - strictly better than Bull's Strength), and more metamagic can be applied (such as Maximize or Empower) quite readily, as it's a low-level spell.

    An Inverted Lesser Geas gives +8 to all stats if you ignore the 'command' for four days, is untyped, and lasts days/level. 5th level spell slot. Of course, you can't actually cast this one on your party mates (as it doesn't affect critters with 8 or more HD), but it's great for your mooks Followers and Cohort(s).

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    - Damaging <-> Healing (This costs +2 instead of the standard +1 per reversal)
    Makes Arcanists better healers than Clerics without this, at mid-levels. Not particularly gamebreaking, usually.
    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    - Inversions of other aspects should be determined by the DM if not listed here.
    You mean like positive level Enervation? This could be really, really bad....
    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    Prepared spellcasters must decide which reversals they are using on spell preparation

    Extreme Maximize (Metamagic)
    +3 to spell level
    This acts as Maximize Spell, with the following addition:
    Any magical effects that take place in an area within 5 ft/{level of Extreme Maximized spell} of the Extreme Maximized spell for 1 round after the casting of said spell are effected as by Empower Spell.
    So... it's Maximize+ (as the standard Maximize Spell is +3 level)
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    So... all my Acid spells can now be Force spells, and my electricity spells can now be sonic? That's quite an upgrade, as Force and Sonic are the two least common resistances... and if Spell Compendium is in play, there's some nice d6/level Acid spells.... and there's a reason energy substitution doesn't include Sonic and Force anymore...
    This option is easily breakable.
    Changing it so Electric and Acid are paired, and Force with Sonic
    Bestow Curse is Permanent, doesn't fall to Dispel Magic, and with this, lets a 4th level spell slot once a day for three or four weeks will give the entire party +6 to all stats forever. Oh yes, and it's untyped, so stacks with standard stat boosters. And imagine what you can do with Ray of Enfeeblement on the party fighter. 2nd level spell effect, 1d6+1 per two caster levels (so 1d6+5 at 10th - strictly better than Bull's Strength), and more metamagic can be applied (such as Maximize or Empower) quite readily, as it's a low-level spell.

    An Inverted Lesser Geas gives +8 to all stats if you ignore the 'command' for four days, is untyped, and lasts days/level. 5th level spell slot. Of course, you can't actually cast this one on your party mates (as it doesn't affect critters with 8 or more HD), but it's great for your mooks Followers and Cohort(s).
    Maybe I should give an extra level for the buff-debuff

    Makes Arcanists better healers than Clerics without this, at mid-levels. Not particularly gamebreaking, usually.
    You mean like positive level Enervation? This could be really, really bad....
    But you would have to pass a save to keep the level! Yeah, maybe I should remove this, and put it as a suggested houserule. Never forget that the DM doesn't have to do an expected reversal.
    So... it's Maximize+ (as the standard Maximize Spell is +3 level)
    Oh. I thought Maximize was +2 level. Fixing now.
    Yeah, responses in bold. I'm new to homebrew, so thanks for your help everyone!

    EDIT: Changed Extreme Maximize to Spreading Maximize, since the actual maximization is not any more powerful, it just leaks somewhat.
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2011-01-19 at 08:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by master256 View Post
    Maybe I should give an extra level for the buff-debuff
    That doesn't actually help. See, you still get the Bestow Curse problem, it just changes what level it occurs. An Inverted Bestow Curse for +6 to a stat is still replacing a 36,000 gp item, only better - the effect is more in line with one of the Tomes or Manuals - which cap at +5 for 137,500 gp market. And an Inverted Bestow Curse is better, and anyone who can cast it can do so multiple times over the course of a week, for free, to get +6 to *all* stats. And then repeat it for each of their friends.

    A slightly better solution would be to make it buff -> debuff (one way only), rather than buff <-> debuff (either direction), if that makes sense.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    A slightly better solution would be to make it buff -> debuff (one way only), rather than buff <-> debuff (either direction), if that makes sense.
    Good idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Invert strikes me as wrong. A Sorcerer with it would be able to substitute a cleric very, very easily. For example: Fireball turns into an aoe heal... So, while as an idea I like it, the damage to healing to damage has to go; completely disregards many spells.

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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Ya area healing is pretty nuts. Maybe try restricting it to healing => damage for +1, since it's something clerics often do for free anyway. But now they can spontaneously convert spells to "inflict" for +1. Hmm, kinda shafts the negative energy clerics, but most people don't play those anyway. Besides that one I like inversion.

    Spreading Maximize is strictly better than widened empower, a +5 equivalent. I mean 5' per level, at level 10 for example, is nuts, especially when applied to small area spells which have a small area for a reason. I'd double the radius instead, like widen, and put empower in the extra area. Technically this spell is now worth somewhere between 5 and 6, but you can give a discount for being forced to combine them and make it 4 or 5.
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    Default Re: More Metamagic Feats! (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Ya area healing is pretty nuts. Maybe try restricting it to healing => damage for +1, since it's something clerics often do for free anyway. But now they can spontaneously convert spells to "inflict" for +1. Hmm, kinda shafts the negative energy clerics, but most people don't play those anyway. Besides that one I like inversion.

    Spreading Maximize is strictly better than widened empower, a +5 equivalent. I mean 5' per level, at level 10 for example, is nuts, especially when applied to small area spells which have a small area for a reason. I'd double the radius instead, like widen, and put empower in the extra area. Technically this spell is now worth somewhere between 5 and 6, but you can give a discount for being forced to combine them and make it 4 or 5.
    I just want to clarify that the zone of empowering is not an expanded range of the original spell. It is a zone that activates the Empowering metamagic on any spell affecting that area later. Also, its radius is based on spell level, not on caster level, and not including the added levels from metamagic.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."

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