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    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default how to calculate

    how much damage someone would take if in dnd 3.5 ed they were picked up and thrown into a wall?

    like by something that had a decent strength score?


    are there any actual rules for this or is it just up to the DMs discreton

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    Volos's Avatar

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    Default Re: how to calculate

    1d6 per 10 feet traveled. The person/monster doing the throwing would need the proper feats. Possible selections include fling enemy, snatch, knockback, and others.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: how to calculate

    Quote Originally Posted by Volos View Post
    1d6 per 10 feet traveled. The person/monster doing the throwing would need the proper feats. Possible selections include fling enemy, snatch, knockback, and others.
    oh so its not necessarily how hard they are thrown but how far they are thrown.

    i assumed it was very similar to just falling.

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    Yora's Avatar

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    Default Re: how to calculate

    That's about right. The idea here is to calculate damage like you would for falling damage. The physics involved are actually quite different, but for a game like D&D, using the same rules for both works reasonably well, and there's no need to make things more complicated.

    Or you could calculate it as if the wall was thrown against the character, so add the throwers strength bonus to damage.
    Last edited by Yora; 2011-01-27 at 03:51 PM.
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: how to calculate

    That's only vertically. Telekinesis does a flat 1d6 regardless of distance, for example. It even adds int to attack rolls, grapple/trip checks, etc. but not to damage. You might also try a flat 1d6, or make something up. It's not going to be much unless the tosser can somehow manage a high velocity.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-01-27 at 03:52 PM.
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: how to calculate

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    That's about right. The idea here is to calculate damage like you would for falling damage. The physics involved are actually quite different, but for a game like D&D, using the same rules for both works reasonably well, and there's no need to make things more complicated.

    Or you could calculate it as if the wall was thrown against the character, so add the throwers strength bonus to damage.
    i am currently taking a physics class and i feel i am trying to overcomplicate things >.<

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    Jair Barik's Avatar

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    Default Re: how to calculate

    Perhaps look at how energy push in the psionics section of the srd handles it.

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    Default Re: how to calculate

    Quote Originally Posted by Origomar View Post
    i am currently taking a physics class and i feel i am trying to overcomplicate things >.<
    PE = mgh, KE=1/2mv^2
    h = PE / mg

    assume KE = PE:
    h = KE / mg = 1/2(mv^2)/mg = v^2/2g

    Effective falling height = v^2/2g

    That's the thing though, strength only gives a force not an energy (force x displacement). Though I suppose you could use the strong guy's carrying capacity times about 2 meters or 6.5 feet to get an energy, then try h = E / mg= (2 m x carrying capacity) / (9.8 m/s^2 x m)
    =0.20 x thrower's carrying capacity / thrown guy's weight
    Or for the number of 10 ft. increments:
    = 0.062 x thrower's carrying capacity / thrown guy's weight

    damage d6's = (thrower's carrying capacity / 16) / thrown guy's weight

    So now you just need to write down the thrower's carrying capacity and divide by 16. I'd impose an upper limit for small objects as real people don't transfer all their energy when throwing small things as they can only swing their arm so fast. In fact if you really want to get technical you'd only get perfect power transfer at some ideal weight and from there there's a graph of velocity vs. weight with zero power at max weight and velocity = 0 and max velocity and weight = 0. Thus very heavy and very light things should receive much less damage.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-01-27 at 04:20 PM.
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    Default Re: how to calculate

    Personally, I wouldn't bother making it to complicated.

    Average weapon damage is about 1d8. Throwing someone into an average wall should probably deal 1d8 + the thrower's Strength modifier and force the victim to make a Balance check or fall prone (maybe a success leaves them flat-footed for a round from the blow). Seems fair to me, and, more importantly, it's consistent and offers a fun bonus (knocking your foe prone) without making it such a good idea that PCs try it all the time.

    Increase or decrease the damage based on the thrower's size category. 2d6 for Large creatures, 1d6 for Small creatures, 4d6 for Huge, 6d6 for Gargantuan, and 8d6 for Colossal.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2011-01-27 at 04:19 PM.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: how to calculate

    You might also notice from all the overcomplicated physics that even someone with a strength of 30 only does 1d6 of damage. You may as well call it 1d6 or in extreme cases 1 nonlethal or 2d6, and call it a day.

    From a balance perspective that does come out a bit weak but a) Don't forget that being thrown somewhere where you don't want to be often has other consequences that are far worse. And b) So what if it's low reward:effort, find another way to attack instead of artificially and implausibly forcing a weak way to be strong.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-01-27 at 04:25 PM.
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    Default Re: how to calculate

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    You might also notice from all the overcomplicated physics that even someone with a strength of 30 only does 1d6 of damage. You may as well call it 1d6, 2d6 or 1 nonlethal in extreme cases, and call it a day.
    Meh...this is where I'd boost it up to the 1d8 + Strength and the knocking prone, because it is harder to throw someone into a wall, and PCs should be rewarded for RP rather than penalized because they should have logically swung a sword. Basically, keep the damage approximately equal to their weapon damage (allowing Power Attack for a throw...things like that), and tack on a small bonus (knocking prone, in this case) as a reward for the extra effort required to grab, lift, and throw a struggling enemy.

    Yes, as the poster above me says, it's not the most plausible way of attacking. But, in the end, we're playing a game, and players want to do things they thing are awesome. If that includes flinging people into walls, well...seems to me it's your job as a DM to make it as awesome as they think it should be, within reason. This probably means a bit less realism in return for more player enjoyment...which should always be the highest priority.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2011-01-27 at 04:27 PM.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: how to calculate

    Special effects like making the guy prone are a good idea though. That fits plausibility, usefulness and coolness at the same time. Or thrown into a pit, thrown into random object of doom (re: Roy v Xykon), etc. I still think games are more fun when you at least attempt to make sense. Besides yanking people's minds out of the story a pile of damage just because you rolled more dice isn't clever and would get dull after the 3rd or 4th time I think.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-01-27 at 04:32 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
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    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

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    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

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    Default Re: how to calculate

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Besides yanking people's minds out of the story a pile of damage just because you rolled more dice isn't clever and would get dull after the 3rd or 4th time I think.
    Oh, of course. Hence why I said 1d8 and nothing crazier, and tied the "rule of cool" part to a special bonus effect that a normal attack wouldn't have. Damage isn't a reward: game-play altering changes are.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: how to calculate

    I'd use giants' rock-throwing ability as a guideline, depending on the strength of the thrower and the size of the throwee, after all being thrown into a rock isn't so different from having a rock thrown at you. 2d6 or 2d8 + STR is good, if you're 2 sizes larger than the thing you're throwing and/or packing a STR of 25 or more.

    Hill Giants are Large, have STR 25, and can throw 40-50lb rocks for 2d6+STR. Thus a creature with 25 STR should be able to throw a halfling into a wall for similar damage.

    Cloud Giants are Huge, have STR 35, and throw Medium objects for 2d8+STR

    Storm Giants are Huge, have STR 39, and don't throw rocks. Apparently they're too cool to indulge in the rest of giant-kind's favorite pastime. Wankers.

    However, if you're a monk or something and you've got a throw move of some kind, I'd say you're probably using opponent's momentum against them and I'd cut the damage to 1d4 or 1d6 with no STR bonus.
    Last edited by tenthousandways; 2011-01-27 at 04:44 PM.

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