How to design a dungeon?

[Tyndmyr]

The thought occurred to me, based on a quick read of this, that dungeon design tends to get overlooked a lot. Im sure almost all of us have done it...some of us a great deal, and certainly everyone has played in one...but what makes a good dungeon?

[NichG]

I'm a fan of shortcuts, non-essential hidden areas that may not be discovered in any given run, and some degree of logical consistency so the players can either through logic or clues found in the dungeon or both make some guesses about what might lie along any particular path.

Abstract tree diagrams like in the linked post are useful for this. If I'm feeling particularly like running a decent sized dungeon, I'll use Graphviz (http://www.graphviz.org) to create a set of rooms with links indicating obvious, hidden, or party-driven transitions between them (party-driven would be something like, the wall is thin enough to break a hole between these rooms, or a fly spell can cross a chasm here or whatever).

Generally I don't try to run complex dungeons for high level parties though. The spatial structure idiom breaks down in the face of teleportation and easy digging. On the other hand, a series of demiplanes or even just normal distant sites linked by clues (so a passage between 'rooms' is really a clue found in location A, suggesting that location B is a place to visit) could be thought of in the dungeon sense.

I'd like to make dungeons more 'alive', having things like guard rotations, things coming from adjacent rooms when there's a commotion, etc, but thats usually more planning than I have time for.

[dsmiles]

Depends on the dungeon, for me.

If we're going into a cave system, I like to see believable ecosystems.

If we're exploring a man-made dungeon, I like to see creatures that either don't need ecosystems (undead/outsiders) or see creatures that require minimal ecosystems (fungi, oozes, etc.).

If it's a trap dungeon, I want to see traps that are actually challenging and potentially deadly.

But most of all, I want a chance that we're not coming back alive.

[Ozreth]

But most of all, I want a chance that we're not coming back alive.

there it is.

[sonofzeal]

1) Highly varied combat. If one room has thugs, the next might have the same enemies but behind barrackades with ranged weapons, or a single big brute, or a spellcaster-type. Each fight should add something new to the equation, unless you're explicitly going for a gauntlet battle-of-attrition, in which case the "new" is that their resources are lower in each fight.

2) Puzzles. Note I didn't say "traps", although they may be involved. A caved-in passage that can be reopenned, or a trap that can be bypassed creatively, or even just an explicit puzzle, like a riddle or somesuch. Ideally, solving the puzzle should be non-essential but make life easier and/or increase loot rewards.

3) Themes. I don't care if an Ogre's in a dungeon that doesn't have the ecology to support one, but I like to have a general idea what sort of threats are in the area so I can prepare accordingly. Shadowy room with lots of cover? Expect ambush and spot checks aplenty! Rusted gear littering the floor? Expect rust monsters! Pitch dark? Expect a Grue! Sometimes there's nothing the player can do to prepare anyway, but giving warnings for the caution is a good thing.

4) Loot. A lot of DMs put really generic loot out there, and it's generally carted around for hours/days and then sold at half value to the nearest vendor. I had one DM who made us copy down endless lists of gems we'd acquired, and it made bookkeeping an absolute mess. I highly recommend just handing out straight value, and occasional really special items tailored to the party. If the Fighter gets a Weapon Crystal, the Wizard and Cleric get PEarls of Power, and the Rogue gets an item to boost stealth considerably, then each is going to feel happy even if that's all they get. Don't be afraid to invent items either, and use this as a balancing tool. If the Monk suffers (for obvious reasons), toss him a "Vestment of the Subtle Fist" that lets him add Flurry on any attack. If the Rogue misses all his SA attempts, toss him "Gloves of the Dark Way" that give him +4 to attack rolls on SA attempts. As long as each person gets something valuable to them, and it's obvious who's intended to get what, and there's some spending money in there too, the players will have an absolute blast.

[Pigkappa]

I like to think about the events rather than dungeons, so I usually take maps from unrelated adventures I found and add/remove monsters and loot according to the party's level and the plot.

[Tyndmyr]

But most of all, I want a chance that we're not coming back alive.

Well, if that's missing, it's not really a dungeon. Just a hole to scoop treasure out of. Sadly, I've seen such adventures.

As for loot, I've always just allowed the players to use gems as currency. At higher values, it only makes sense. Transactions involving hundreds of thousands of gold are extremely awkward otherwise. This also means we don't need to keep track of the precise form of that currency. They can just write down the gp value, and what not.

I have developed a fondness for random loot, or loot designed around whatever it is you're fighting. It feels remarkably odd to just happen across the perfect items for your characters on a repeating basis.

The idea of refitting existing maps is a solid one. Any reccomended maps?

[dsmiles]

Yeah. I just (I say "just" but it was almost two months ago) backed a project on Kickstarter. Gaming Paper Adventures. The amount that I pledged netted me a 100 page map. Plus an adventure to go with it. That map can be rearranged and re-fluffed easily.

Other than that, I like taking levels from Undermountain occasionally.

EDIT: Here's a link.

[Tyndmyr]

That's a pretty awesome looking map.

[ShadeSpark]

I tend to design my dungeons in a maze-like manner. Halls that end in dead ends or stair cases and trap doors that don't go anywhere. This can get annoying to the players sometimes, but it forces them to pay attention and be aware of their surroundings since they don't know if a dead end contains a hidden door or perhaps a well concealed ambush. Traps and puzzles are definately a must. For treasure I usually just give out gold, gems, art objects and randomly created magic items.

[Daftendirekt]

I have developed a fondness for random loot, or loot designed around whatever it is you're fighting. It feels remarkably odd to just happen across the perfect items for your characters on a repeating basis.

The one time I've fought a dragon so far (only been playing for 2 years), the DM actually pulled out the DMG and started throwing art objects out there and everything. Nice wardrobes, tapestries, etc. Our characters actually started getting into it over who got what; sure we're adventuring now, but we'll go home eventually, and now we've got some snazzy furniture to fill our homes with!

So, yeah, random loot can be more fun than something specifically tailored to your character. Never know the uses you'll find for it.

[dsmiles]

That's a pretty awesome looking map.

I gave $22, so I got the map (hard copy), adventure (.pdf), and another (.pdf) adventure later. It is a pretty awesome map. Also, MODULAR!

[BRC]

Heh, I'm having this problem right now. I'm trying to design a kobold mine/settlement, and I can't the right combination between planned and wandering. Making a random map is HARD.

[dsmiles]

Heh, I'm having this problem right now. I'm trying to design a kobold mine/settlement, and I can't the right combination between planned and wandering. Making a random map is HARD.

Tried these?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/mapper/launcher.htm
http://donjon.bin.sh/d20/dungeon/