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    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef XVIII. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

    Contestants: You will need to present your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

    Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.

    32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
    If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

    Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

    Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 11:59pm CUT on Friday, February 11th 2010 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, true_shinken. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.

    I am going to have to ask the contestants to PM me about any disagreement with the judges. Under no circumstances is a contestant to defend themselves inside the thread, since it breaks anonymity.

    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
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    NAME OF ENTRY
    {table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

    1st|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
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    [b]NAME OF ENTRY[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[B]Class[/B]|[b]Base Attack<br>Bonus[/b]|[b]Fort Save[/b]|[b]Ref Save[/b]|[b]Will Save[/b]|[B]Skills[/B]|[B]Feats[/B]|[b]Class Features[/b]

    1st|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]


    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
    Spoiler
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    Spells per day/Spells Known
    {table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
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    [b]Spells per day/Spells Known[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]0lvl[/b]|[b]1st[/b]|[b]2nd[/b]|[b]3rd[/b]|[b]4th[/b]|[b]5th[/b]|[b]6th[/b]|[b]7th[/b]|[b]8th[/b]|[b]9th[/b]

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]


    For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
    Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners.

    So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for about 5 judges and as many contestants as feel like playing!

    This week's special ingredient is:
    Fey Features' Unseelie Dark Hunter! Our first online secret ingredient.
    We will have trophies for 1st through 3rd places, as well as a special trophy for honorable mention. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

    Allez optimiser!

    Judges
    Grynning
    dextercorvia
    Talbot

    Contestants
    OMG_Ponies
    Waker
    Private-Prinny
    Amphetryon
    Clepto
    gbprime
    Nerdanel
    Amechra
    gbprime
    Zaq
    Thurbane
    Draz74
    Xiander
    Duncan_Ruadrik
    Deathslayer7
    OMGPonies

    The Builds
    Skullface
    The Creeper
    Perpetua
    Reek
    Tamalin
    Faltino
    Ogar
    Tamlaine
    The Loyal Servant

    Past Competitions

    Iron Chef I: Entropomancer
    Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
    Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
    Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
    Iron Chef V: War Chanter
    Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
    Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
    Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
    Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
    Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
    Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
    Iron Chef XII: War Mind
    Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante
    Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song
    Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master
    Iron Chef XVI: Assassin
    Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante
    Last edited by true_shinken; 2011-03-12 at 10:23 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Competing, but can a link be provided?

    editing while I was posting!
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2011-02-04 at 02:15 PM. Reason: ninja chairman
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Hmm, The special entry requirement for this one should make for some interesting reading in the backstories. Can't wait to see what we end up with.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    question: how many levels of the dark hunter do we have to use? All or some? Also interested in as a contestant. Also, I can't seem to find Wilderness Lore. Can someone direct me to it?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Woo hoo! I was hoping it would be this one! Wis based arcane casting! Unseelie Court shenanigans! This should be a good one.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Competing. Quick note: the Dark Hunter appears to be 3.0, as it references Wilderness Lore instead of Survival.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    I actually have a pretty good idea for this one. Count me in.

    BTW, are we going to use Survival instead of Wilderness Lore for the entry requirements, or are we going back to the 3.0 skill system?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathslayer7 View Post
    question: how many levels of the dark hunter do we have to use? All or some? Also interested in as a contestant. Also, I can't seem to find Wilderness Lore. Can someone direct me to it?
    Past Iron Chefs tend to have high scorers taking most, if not all, levels of a secret ingredient. The typical range is 8-10, though I think some entries have gone as low as having 5 levels before jumping out. Don't think they scored too well, either.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2011-02-04 at 03:18 PM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Excellent, I've got plenty of warning for this one, so I'll be competing.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Yeah, we definitely need some official clarification on the skills for this one. Saying that Survival is a prereq is fine, but there are a lot of outdated skills on its list. Best to nip that confusion in the bud, no?

    Anyway, this one isn't inspiring me right now, but I'll say something if that changes.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Private-Prinny View Post
    I actually have a pretty good idea for this one. Count me in.

    BTW, are we going to use Survival instead of Wilderness Lore for the entry requirements, or are we going back to the 3.0 skill system?
    It's Survival.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Chairman! Please clear that this entry is the Unseelie Dark Hunter, or place it as [Unseelie] Dark Hunter, since there's another Dark Hunter on the Complete Warrior and people might be confused.

    Not competing, but not sure if I'll judge this one or whether I'll rest for a while.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    I think I'll just be watching, because standard D&D fey and I have some fairly major disagreements. If there's a need, though, I might be able to judge.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    and if possible, translate the 3.0 skills for the Unseelie Dark Hunter into 3.5 skills. The major note being: Animal Empathy and Intuit Direction. I would add in Wilderness Lore but we already said that was survival.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Tialait View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    My guess for Animal empathy would be handle animal/wild empathy (choose one). Intuit direction is likely survival.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    I'm pretty sure wilderness lore is survival. Did you mean Gather Info?
    Last edited by Deathslayer7; 2011-02-04 at 05:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Tialait View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathslayer7 View Post
    I'm pretty sure wilderness lore is survival. Did you mean Gather Info?
    No, Intuit Direction got rolled into Survival alongside Wilderness Lore.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    So how will that work? Can I be so bold as to suggest a SI that's already 3.5?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    OK, for the update on (Unseelie) Dark Hunter:
    • They get wild empathy, as a Druid of the same level, instead of Animal Empathy skill
    • They get Survival as a class skill instead of Wilderness Lore and Intuit Direction

    I don't think anything else needs clarification. Quite an easy update.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Well, one idea tossed out already as unworkable. On to the second concept.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    I'll be competing in this one. Good luck everyone.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Waker's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    One quick question, are LA buy offs allowed? I didn't see any mention for or against it in the rules.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    One quick question, are LA buy offs allowed? I didn't see any mention for or against it in the rules.
    That has been up to the individual judge in the past. Some of them frown on it more than others.

    I'd like to try competing this time. I'm having trouble getting the prerequisite skills, though, so we'll see.
    Last edited by dextercorvia; 2011-02-05 at 12:36 AM.
    Dex

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    Regarding my Necrotic Apprentice trick:
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    This is brilliant.
    Regarding my Non-Epic Hidecarved Dragon:
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    Nicely done. Probably too cheesy for many tables, but I'd be inclined to allow it at mine, just for chutzpah.

    Have a cookie.
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    Check out the Versatile Domain Generalist.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Grynning's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    He's back, and he's after justice...
    or maybe just tasty entries...

    Put me down for a judge slot. My hiatus was intended to be brief, but the length of the last contest made it feel like a very long time


    Comedian avatar by The_Stoney_One

    Iron Chef Judge! Check out my awesome badges by Jumilk!
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  25. - Top - End - #25
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Not only an affiliation PrC, but one that doesn't allow the player to possess a conscience (until they're done taking levels in it) by virtue of serving this creature:

    Quote Originally Posted by WotC
    The queen is a capricious creature, quite chaotic and quite evil.
    Add to that, the only thing really noteworthy is wis-based arcane casting and a +mount speed feature.

    Good luck, contestants...
    Last edited by Pechvarry; 2011-02-05 at 12:59 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gbprime's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    One quick question, are LA buy offs allowed? I didn't see any mention for or against it in the rules.
    I'm starting to wonder if avoiding LA is the best tactic. I've been penalized for using LA buyoff and I've been penalized for NOT using LA buyoff. There's at least 1 judge on either side of that fence each round, so you're going to lose a half point from SOMEONE no matter what you do.

    The bottom line is... do whatever makes sense for the build. Coolness and power are worth points too, and taking a half point hit from some judge is worth getting an extra point from several judges.
    .
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    Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist but you have ceased to live. - Samuel Clemens

    Oh, and DFTBA.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    I'm trying my hand at competing again. It's going to be interesting to see how many people had the same build idea.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ArcanistSupreme's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    Quote Originally Posted by gbprime View Post
    I'm starting to wonder if avoiding LA is the best tactic. I've been penalized for using LA buyoff and I've been penalized for NOT using LA buyoff. There's at least 1 judge on either side of that fence each round, so you're going to lose a half point from SOMEONE no matter what you do.

    The bottom line is... do whatever makes sense for the build. Coolness and power are worth points too, and taking a half point hit from some judge is worth getting an extra point from several judges.
    I've seen some people say what they would do without LA buyoff, but also include options for if it is available. They cover all of their bases, and they can't be penalized either way.

    And am I crazy, or is it possible to get every aspect of this class (minus speed bonuses, which aren't that great) from other sources? Maybe some kind of ToB gish build with Bloodclaw master?
    Awesome avatar by starwoof

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

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    Aug 2007

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    I have a question: Are the hounds and the mount considered class features or are they just suggestions for the kind of things typical Unseelie Dark Hunters spend personal resources to get?

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Waker's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

    It looks like they are meant to be suggestions. The class itself doesn't actually give you any improvements with your mount (aside from speed) or cohorts. The class looks like one that is best used with an NPC, but that is part of the challenge.

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