Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

[gbprime]

Yeah, it doesn't come with any hounds or mounts. That's what makes it a tricky challenge... you have to involve beasts of some variety, unseelie devotion, AND classic ranger-type skills... all while trying to be unique and powerful.

Cool.

Mark me down as a contestant again, please.

[Nerdanel]

It looks like they are meant to be suggestions. The class itself doesn't actually give you any improvements with your mount (aside from speed) or cohorts. The class looks like one that is best used with an NPC, but that is part of the challenge.

So... How can I go acquiring the right sort of mounts and hounds? I can hardly just go shopping for them (except for griffons).

It would be lame to be the only Dark Hunter in the Unseelie Court with mundane dogs...

[Waker]

Well, I could tell you how to go about doing that, but doing so would not only defeat the point of the challenge, but could be considered against the rules for talking about builds.

[true_shinken]

I have a question: Are the hounds and the mount considered class features or are they just suggestions for the kind of things typical Unseelie Dark Hunters spend personal resources to get?

Yes, they are suggestions. Get your pets from somewhere else.

[Nerdanel]

It looks like I'm going to have to bow out. Without access to the good critter stuff (even by Leadership) all I have left is a build that gets weaker by taking Dark Hunter and doesn't even get all that close to the flavor of a real Dark Hunter.

And I was thinking that here we have an Iron Chef contest that's friendly to people without all those splat books...

[dextercorvia]

So... How can I go acquiring the right sort of mounts and hounds? I can hardly just go shopping for them (except for griffons).

It would be lame to be the only Dark Hunter in the Unseelie Court with mundane dogs...

Some prior contestants have asked questions about their build in different threads on the forum though. Usually I don't realize that's what they are asking about until after the reveal. Just sayin'.

Don't give up so soon.

[Cieyrin]

And I was thinking that here we have an Iron Chef contest that's friendly to people without all those splat books...

Having lots of splatbooks just gives you more ingredients to make your dish that much more tasty, it doesn't win you the competition by itself. There've been builds that have worked well on a minimal amount of sources and scored high, so all having fewer ingredients means is finding a new use for something that others may not have thought of.

Hope that helps a little bit.

[Nerdanel]

Having lots of splatbooks just gives you more ingredients to make your dish that much more tasty, it doesn't win you the competition by itself. There've been builds that have worked well on a minimal amount of sources and scored high, so all having fewer ingredients means is finding a new use for something that others may not have thought of.

Hope that helps a little bit.

I got the second place in the War Mind contest without any books. However, in this contest I can't get the proper critters to be a proper Unseelie Dark Hunter and apparently some other people can. The lack of critters (or having to use far inferior critters) is fatal to my character concept and none of the cool tricks I thought of would apply. Maybe I could find another concept but I'm feeling really down right now.

[Deathslayer7]

I got the second place in the War Mind contest without any books. However, in this contest I can't get the proper critters to be a proper Unseelie Dark Hunter and apparently some other people can. The lack of critters (or having to use far inferior critters) is fatal to my character concept and none of the cool tricks I thought of would apply. Maybe I could find another concept but I'm feeling really down right now.

If it makes you feel better. All I'm using is the SRD and one other book. I dont have all the splat books that are out there. Have most of the complete X, races of X and Libris Mortis and Heros of Horror/Battle and Spell Compendium, and the Environmental Books such as Frostburn. I also have Campaign Setting specific books.

But all I'm using is one book. It can be done, quite easily. To be honest, I don't really have time to read through such books. So don't feel down.

[Draz74]

I'll compete this time.

In fact, I already submitted my build.

[Akal Saris]

It looks like I'm going to have to bow out. Without access to the good critter stuff (even by Leadership) all I have left is a build that gets weaker by taking Dark Hunter and doesn't even get all that close to the flavor of a real Dark Hunter.

And I was thinking that here we have an Iron Chef contest that's friendly to people without all those splat books...

I can think of several core-only ways to get a pack of dogs and a decent mount, especially since half of the mounts on the list have a GP cost in the MM. I'm not even sure what non-core materials would really be important in this case.

[Xiander]

I might actually work up the courage to join this time around. Wish me luck.

[Duncan_Ruadrik]

yeah, even Im thinking about it... hmm... mid terms are over... I might have time.

[Zaq]

I lied. I suddenly got inspired. I'm in.

[Deathslayer7]

3 questions:

When you look at the table we should use the format, what do you mean by skills? Is that how many skill points we get or where we put our skills?

When multi-classing, do you add the +2 for beginning level more than once per save or no?

What fluff should go with the class? And should we put in our own thoughts as to why we did something?

[Urpriest]

3 questions:

When you look at the table we should use the format, what do you mean by skills? Is that how many skill points we get or where we put our skills?

When multi-classing, do you add the +2 for beginning level more than once per save or no?

What fluff should go with the class? And should we put in our own thoughts as to why we did something?

Not to be a jerk, but look at past competitions. Looking at other winning builds will give you a good idea about the range of formats that are accepted.

The +2 is added for every class that gives it. You even get it with the partial saves variant from Unearthed Arcana, weirdly enough.

[Deathslayer7]

Not to be a jerk, but look at past competitions. Looking at other winning builds will give you a good idea about the range of formats that are accepted.

The +2 is added for every class that gives it. You even get it with the partial saves variant from Unearthed Arcana, weirdly enough.

I didn't think of that. But if you dont want to be a jerk, then why mention your a jerk.

[Urpriest]

I didn't think of that. But if you dont want to be a jerk, then why mention your a jerk.

It's a little like a Freudian slip

[Xiander]

I didn't think of that. But if you dont want to be a jerk, then why mention your a jerk.

I suppose it's like the phrase with all due respect...

[OMG PONIES]

Not to be a jerk, but look at past competitions. Looking at other winning builds will give you a good idea about the range of formats that are accepted.

The +2 is added for every class that gives it. You even get it with the partial saves variant from Unearthed Arcana, weirdly enough.

If we're talking about fractional saves from UA, you don't get the +2 more than once.

[BobVosh]

I didn't think of that. But if you dont want to be a jerk, then why mention your a jerk.

Not to be a jerk but it's "why mention you're a jerk "

:P

I'm going to follow this one carefully since I can't really think of a build that uses this class for anything effective.

[Amechra]

I will participate in this one, I think.

No poorly thought out TO tricks this time, though!

[Zaq]

Build submitted. This was a hell of a lot easier than the last one, though that's probably because I didn't use eleven different classes like I did last time. Interestingly, the build ended up going in a totally different direction from what I had intended when I started. Sometimes all it takes is noticing one little possibility, then taking it and running with it like you're an action star in front of an exploding building.

[Urpriest]

If we're talking about fractional saves from UA, you don't get the +2 more than once.

I don't think that's correct. I can look at it again, but I think that avoiding the +2 per class thing is a further variant.

[dextercorvia]

I will participate in this one, I think.

No poorly thought out TO tricks this time, though!

Just well thought out ones, eh?

[Amechra]

Submitted my build, without a bit of TO in sight.

And there's time for a couple more!

[Thurbane]

Hey, I'm thinking of possibly submitting an entry...two things I wanted to clarify.

• I see no mention of Armored Casting in the PrC...I assume that, despite being WIS based, the normal ASF applies?
  
• The second level spell Endurance - is this the 3.5 equivalent of Endure Elements, or Bear's Endurance?

[Waker]

I don't happen to have my old PHB 3rd edition around, but I'm fairly certain the spell is supposed to be Bear's Endurance. Looking at the other spells at the same level would seem to indicate it.

[dextercorvia]

Endurance
Transmutation
Level: Clr 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes
The spell grants the subject an enhancement bonus (1d4+1 points) to constitution.

I would guess Bear's Endurance, but I don't know if that is explicit anywhere.

[Thurbane]

*facepalm*

Just checked the 3.5 Core Book Errata, and Endurance is indeed now Bear's Endurance. It's where I should have looked in the first place.

That only leaves my ASF question, which I assume is a "yes".