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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Best spells for sneak attack

    Its that time again, when I want to make a sniper wand user rogue.

    Other than scorching ray what are the best spells for SA? Scorching ray is obvious as it is 3 rays for SA in one spell.

    Thanks kindly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    the orb spells out of the spell compendium are pretty good. no save, no sr.

    btw: scorching ray is a volley attack, that means you get sneak attack only once, it's similar to manyshot.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Quote Originally Posted by dobu View Post
    the orb spells out of the spell compendium are pretty good. no save, no sr.

    btw: scorching ray is a volley attack, that means you get sneak attack only once, it's similar to manyshot.
    Really? Where does it specify that? Many shot explicitly mentions it, but I don't know where else it is implied.

    I will be muy sad if so.
    Last edited by BobVosh; 2011-02-05 at 06:47 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    faceroll's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    There was a sage article on it, and it might be in a book about sneak attacks and/or magic, like CArc.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Really? Where does it specify that? Many shot explicitly mentions it, but I don't know where else it is implied.

    I will be muy sad if so.
    Clarified in rules compendium. Any spell which lets you make multiple attacks as a standard action gets sneak attack on only one of them.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    Clarified in rules compendium. Any spell which lets you make multiple attacks as a standard action gets sneak attack on only one of them.
    What if it is a full round action cast?

    *ponders sorcerer with metamagics*
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Nope, only once for spells, regardless of the casting time (rules compendium 136).
    Last edited by Runestar; 2011-02-05 at 07:41 AM.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    If your goal is to have a lot of touch sneak attaxks per round, you might want Wraighstrike from Spell Compendium combined whis as many melee physical attacks as you can get. You can also persist it later, though some DMs may ban it just because it's kinda too powerful.

    If you prefer ranged touch sneak attacks, consider bying wand of acid splash (0-level spell, so it's cheap, but you still get full sneak attack without spell resistance) or taking Aidic Splatter reserve feat from complete mage.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    I kind of want to do a spell sniper (I think that is the name of the PrC) with dual wand wielder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    also at complete arcane pg. 86

    Spoiler
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    Multiple Hits

    Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same
    round. When the caster gets a bonus on damage with such spells
    (including sneak attack damage), the extra damage applies only
    to the fi rst attack, whether that attack hits or not.
    For example, a 7th-level sorcerer/3rd-level rogue with Point
    Blank Shot makes a scorching ray attack at less than 30 feet (two
    rays, each requiring a ranged touch attack roll and dealing
    4d6 points of fi re damage). If the fi rst ray hits, it deals 6d6+1
    points of fi re damage (4d6 normal + 2d6 sneak attack + 1 for
    Point Blank Shot), while each subsequent ray deals only 4d6
    points of fi re damage whether the fi rst ray hits or not.
    Last edited by lokoone; 2011-02-05 at 07:56 AM.

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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    I guess you mean spellwarp sniper. If your baseclass is Sorcerer, you might consider Wings of flurry (races of the dragon, or dragon magic). I would also recommend taking (at least) 2 levels of Unseen Seer (Complete Mage) and get Hunter's eye (player's handbook II) as your free Divination spells. This gives you 1d6 sneak attack per three casterlevel.

    Reserve feats (acidic splatter or force needle (?)) are also good carriers for sneak attacks. Unlimited, no sr, no save.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    If you can fit Craft Wand into your build as a prerequisite, Double Wand Wielder from Complete Arcane will let you fire off two wands. It's not a volley attack, so you can get SA on both.

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    nedz's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    +1 to Acid Splash, the range is close, but thats fine for sneak.
    Alternatively you could just take a level of warlock - doesn't get you through SR though.
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.


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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    I'm going to echo the orb spells from SC. Magic Missile's also very nice if you're less worried about SR but want a guaranteed hit (although you only get SA damage on one missile).

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    Dimers's Avatar

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Sorry, no SA on magic missile -- it doesn't require a to-hit roll, so it can't crit or sneak attack.

    I'm curious about chill touch, myself. It's a good way to get lots of touch attacks, but by my reading of the rules, you can only get one SA per casting, even if you use the attacks spaced out over several rounds! Anyone able to show me the error of my ways?
    Last edited by Dimers; 2011-02-05 at 11:55 AM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    Sorry, no SA on magic missile -- it doesn't require a to-hit roll, so it can't crit or sneak attack.
    Oh yeah, forgot about that. Ah well, in that case, the orbs. The orbs are your friends.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Blacklight is like Greater Invisibilty against anything that doesn't have Devil's Sight.

    Cloud of Knives allows you to make an attack as a free action each round.
    Last edited by dextercorvia; 2011-02-05 at 01:19 PM.
    Dex

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    Regarding my Necrotic Apprentice trick:
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    This is brilliant.
    Regarding my Non-Epic Hidecarved Dragon:
    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Nicely done. Probably too cheesy for many tables, but I'd be inclined to allow it at mine, just for chutzpah.

    Have a cookie.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimers View Post
    Sorry, no SA on magic missile -- it doesn't require a to-hit roll, so it can't crit or sneak attack.

    I'm curious about chill touch, myself. It's a good way to get lots of touch attacks, but by my reading of the rules, you can only get one SA per casting, even if you use the attacks spaced out over several rounds! Anyone able to show me the error of my ways?
    It only refers to spells that hit multiple times in the same round. Chill touch only works once a round (as the touch is a standard action)

    My suggestions

    If you DM allows it, Go Generic spell caster. You will be able to aquire sneak attack and spell casting all in one go. You only get one weapon, so I suggest a sling for your Prof.. as you can have ammo everywhere and a sling can be made out of anything. Otherwise take knife.

    You can then pick up the three strikes allowing you to sneak attack things you couldn't before. Grave strike is for undead, Golem strike is for Golems. and Plant strike..

    Refer to Dungoncraft for tools, like the wand bracer or wand slots for weapons.

    Remember that even though you have attack spells, you can also use them for utility, such as casting acid splash on locks.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Triskavanski View Post
    Refer to Dungoncraft for tools, like the wand bracer or wand slots for weapons.
    Dungeonscape

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    What is generic spell caster in? UA variant?

    Does hunter eye add to current SA like most abilities, or does it replace if better? (AFB)
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Troll in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Cloud of Knives is definitely awesome for this. Also, doesn't one of the reserve feats let you blast like this?

    And an interesting build for this sort of thing might be Beguiler X/Unarmed Swordsage 2/Shadowcraft Mage 5, with some other stuff thrown in. Assassin's Stance provides sneak attack, Shadowcraft Mage lets you use lots of blast spells, and the whole thing has a great shadowy theme going with it.

    JaronK

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Acidic Splatter (CM)

    Ranged Touch Attack, Xd6 damage, where X is the level of your highest [Acid] spell available to cast.
    Dex

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    Regarding my Necrotic Apprentice trick:
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    This is brilliant.
    Regarding my Non-Epic Hidecarved Dragon:
    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Nicely done. Probably too cheesy for many tables, but I'd be inclined to allow it at mine, just for chutzpah.

    Have a cookie.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Check out the Versatile Domain Generalist.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    What is generic spell caster in? UA variant?

    Does hunter eye add to current SA like most abilities, or does it replace if better? (AFB)
    Its a UA base class, one of my three favorite classes due to the ability to make your own class, which is great for making an overly complicated character who does something beyond the norm that is far too difficult to make with normal classes. (especially when limited like I tend to be in levels)

    Basically you get all knowledge skills, and craft skills. Then you take 4 other skills, and one simple weapon prof.

    you chose the mental stat to use, and whether you are divine or arcane.
    Then you can select any spell from any list of the four main classes. (baring though the domains of clerics.)
    you are a spontaneous caster and have limited known spells.
    You gain one feat and another at 5 and every 5 levels (Like a wizard) These feats can be class abilities if you meet the prereqs for them.

    You might be restricted in Multiclassing though between generics and brand name classes as I tend to do to myself.

    Its not really overpowered, if anything its underpowered due to the fact that after you get done with spells, you are basically crap. Utterly terrible when you have the one fighter player who is like "I hate spell casters because of how they always waste their spells and then complain when they can't get sleep while us mundane characters are still raring to go."

    (As I did. Course I had to use a butt load of spells to break everyone out of prison.. and after that I was useless. Got my revenge though, as I kept hitting him with rocks that missed in melee.)

  24. - Top - End - #24
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Add Reach Spell and you can use any touch spell at up to 30', which coincidentally is the normal sneak attack distance limit. This allows you to use Vampiric Touch at range, which is nifty because you get temporary HP equal to the total damage you inflict ─ including sneak attack.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Best spells for sneak attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    Add Reach Spell and you can use any touch spell at up to 30', which coincidentally is the normal sneak attack distance limit. This allows you to use Vampiric Touch at range, which is nifty because you get temporary HP equal to the total damage you inflict ─ including sneak attack.
    Haha, outstanding. I suddenly regret banning Necromancy with my Wizard/ Unseen Seer/Rogue character ;)

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