LGBTAitp - Part Twelve

[Coidzor]

More than likely. However, on the upside, I wouldn't have to deal with any more bull crap from humanity, and I would be far, far less confused in general. And I wouldn't feel so bad about myself/my life. And I wouldn't necessarily feel so obligated towards other people. And I would have the time to do what I really love.

Meh.

Hmm. Sounds like you could do with some more disregard for others if you feel obligated to those who you don't owe anything. Maybe take up arrogance as one of your minor vices... Or to bolster your self-confidence and self-talk so you actually believe yourself to be better than others. Unless you can actually hit that sweet spot of enough to gird yourself against the world without actually hitting the level of having it as a vice at all. Which is the ideal and all, though due to being the ideal it's difficult to hit, especially with the weight our prior and past selves lend towards the direction we're coming from as opposed to going towards. Think the Golden Mean, especially as brought up by Aristotle as a tool by which to modify one's self.

Really though, confidence and self-assuredness are the best weapons one can have against confusion. You are who you are and you'll learn it yourself best by believing in yourself (or at least believing in the belief of others in you) and throwing yourself into the test of humanity by living your life and interacting with the people and situations you find yourself in contact with.

5 minutes of conversation that cuts away the angst and demands a response can reveal more of one's character than months of quiet contemplation and meditation upon one's self.

By virtue of our heritage and what we are as humans, we all are capable of growth and overcoming the challenges life pits against us to shape ourselves. The scale of the challenges and the paths we have open to us vary, of course, according to a multitude of factors, which helps cut down on redundancy of experience.

To put it in another light, when did the LGBT movement grow the most? In the heat of conflict. And without active conflict it fades into the background again.

TKoTD: Just stick around and don't be afraid of making mistakes. Practice makes perfect, after all, and we have had numerous individuals who joined the site with English as their second language but who now, thanks at least in part to the practice they've gotten here, are indistinguishable from the rest of the board populace.

Yeah, except these people are people to whom I have a social commitment to, and whom I consider my friends. If I simply did not hang out with them anymore, then I would also loose a significant chunk of the people I did.

If there is obligation that feels onerous, that suggests that there is some issue that exists in the nature of the relationship.

[TKoTD]

Codizor, that's an uplifting approach to life. But I don't think that psychological states achievedwhen we're enganged in social activities can be translated to our lonely self-contemplating lifes. Sometimes being sorrounded by people is just a placebo, or in the best case scenario, a sedative that pulls you from your condition as an individual.

I sound a little bit pessimistic, but taht's mostly because i think that what really matters of ourselves is teh cognitive system. And by that, I mean the whole apparatus that we develop to understand and make some sense out of our experience. And I don't think that it needs to be a challenge, or that there's is even a small possibility to determine wich way is better; it just need to be discovered and then act according to it.

[unosarta]

Another problem becomes that I am scared of active confrontation with people that I love and have a lot of respect for. For instance, my friend AM (who is also the main source of these problems >_>) tells people about my sexuality without my permission constantly. Like, we were in class, and some chick was like "Hey, [uno], have you ever had a girlfriend?" and I was about to shrug it off and tell her no, which I have no problem doing, and instead AM shouted (across the entire room, and to people I would not be comfortable being out to) "No, he likes penis!"

But I let it slide. I don't want to have confrontation with her. And then she does it again. And again. And again. And again.

But I really dislike active confrontation, so I try to let it slide. She gets really emotional and unhappy one moment, chirpy the next, she constantly talks about her boyfriend/s, her body language is really terrible at expressing what she is feeling, if you try to talk to her when she is in a mood she will yell at you and blame you for it, and then go up to you the next minute and say that you are her best friend ever, she is really temperamental, she loves making people uncomfortable via sexuality/sexual contact (she shoves her boobs in my face every other day, she strokes my other friends when it makes them uncomfortable [admittedly, I do that too sometimes, because it can be really funny, but it they are obviously really uncomfortable, I stop; she doesn't]), she has like no boundaries. The list goes on.

But she is also friends with a large number of my friends. She is also someone who I really think of as one of my best friends. But she. Is. A. Freaking. Jerk. Always.

That is why I would not have a problem dealing with humanity. That right there.

[Edit]: Also, cutting off the friendship wouldn't work either, since I see her really often, and she would more likely than not have really, really intense dislike for me afterwards.

[RaggedAngel]

Unosarta, that sounds... really terrible. I understand why it must be difficult to talk to her, but she has to have some sense of shame or human decency. You need to find some way to speak with her, in private or public, to tell her what you've told us. Randomly outing people is not okay, and can really screw up friendships.

Alternatively, you can speak to a few mutual friends and have them help you. It would be more difficult for her to escape or ignore you, and then other people would be alerted to the problem.

[unosarta]

Unosarta, that sounds... really terrible. I understand why it must be difficult to talk to her, but she has to have some sense of shame or human decency. You need to find some way to speak with her, in private or public, to tell her what you've told us. Randomly outing people is not okay, and can really screw up friendships.

It is even more stupidly weird because her older brother is gay and he totally would not be okay with someone doing that to him.

Alternatively, you can speak to a few mutual friends and have them help you. It would be more difficult for her to escape or ignore you, and then other people would be alerted to the problem.

This might work (maybe), but I get the feeling she would feel threatened by it, and that she would just end up doing it anyway.

[TKoTD]

Unosarta, taht really goes far beyond my understanding of human relationships. I've never been in a situation similar to it, and I really don't know your personallity traits like to give some advice. Eitherway, I recon that it could be an awful situation to be into and it must be stopped [at any cost I would say, but if she's a real friend, then that's probably something that must be kept]. Other than that, I'm out of words about it.

[Coidzor]

Well, I guess first thing to do is to figure out why everyone else puts up with her being an ass to them without comment. If it's just peer pressure you might be able to get enough of a coalition together to turn it around and have said peer pressure remind her of how much of an ass she's being and that she is treating others wrongly.

If you all stop supporting her actions or letting her get away with it, then she'll either modify her behavior or leave all of you. And sexual harassment is wrong no matter what and needs to be combated.

[unosarta]

Well, I guess first thing to do is to figure out why everyone else puts up with her being an ass to them without comment. If it's just peer pressure you might be able to get enough of a coalition together to turn it around and have said peer pressure remind her of how much of an ass she's being and that she is treating others wrongly.

I don't know, really. I never see her out anyone else, but I also don't really see her with any other non-heteronormative people, besides our mutual friend K, who is bi. But, really, I have seen girls act in very sexual ways towards each other without any comment at my school, so there isn't really a stigma against that.

If you all stop supporting her actions or letting her get away with it, then she'll either modify her behavior or leave all of you. And sexual harassment is wrong no matter what and needs to be combated.

Again, I don't think she does it to everyone per se, mostly just me. Which makes me feel delightfully special.

[Edit]: Okay, I messaged K about this, and she has known AM for a long time, so she should be able to tell me more, and whether AM does it to her as well.

[Coidzor]

Again, I don't think she does it to everyone per se, mostly just me. Which makes me feel delightfully special.

Ah. Then gathering support is even more important because you need to figure out whether your other friends are blind to it because it's not effecting them and they think you're ok with it because you don't stand up to her or if they just don't care and should be excised for their callousness and disregard for you.

Because that's sexual harassment and discrimination then.

[unosarta]

Ah. Then gathering support is even more important because you need to figure out whether your other friends are blind to it because it's not effecting them and they think you're ok with it because you don't stand up to her or if they just don't care and should be excised for their callousness and disregard for you.

I don't know that many people who actively interact with her every day. It is a close group of 5 or 6 people, and I suspect a few would side with her, simply for reasons of being friends with her longer. And half of them are older than me and are people I do not have classes with.

Because that's sexual harassment and discrimination then.

Yeah, my friend For'Ninniach on this forum has told her this when she does it to her, and usually either she does it anyway, or she pouts and gets depressed and a word that starts with "B" and rhymes with itchy. >_>

[TKoTD]

Because that's sexual harassment and discrimination then.

Put this way ti sounds like the next step is legal action

[Coidzor]

I don't know that many people who actively interact with her every day. It is a close group of 5 or 6 people, and I suspect a few would side with her, simply for reasons of being friends with her longer. And half of them are older than me and are people I do not have classes with.



Yeah, my friend For'Ninniach on this forum has told her this when she does it to her, and usually either she does it anyway, or she pouts and gets depressed and a word that starts with "B" and rhymes with itchy. >_>

Then she needs a firm hand and consistent application. And if that doesn't work, there's nothing short of professional help that can be done with her and loses need to be cut.

Because, hey, if they're morally bankrupt to the point where they don't see what she does as worth correction, then they're not worth anyone's time.

[unosarta]

I talked to my friend K, and she said that it has happened to her, and that she really needed to crack down that let AM know that that wasn't cool. She also said that she would be happy letting AM know what is going on, so that is good.

Hey, mentioning things that are vaguely bothering you can really get stuff done, if it is done in the LGBTAitP thread.

[TKoTD]

I talked to my friend K, and she said that it has happened to her, and that she really needed to crack down that let AM know that that wasn't cool. She also said that she would be happy letting AM know what is going on, so that is good.

Hey, mentioning things that are vaguely bothering you can really get stuff done, if it is done in the LGBTAitP thread.

Sometimes the only thing that kepts us from persuing our plobem's solutions is thinking actively about them.

[unosarta]

Sometimes the only thing that kepts us from persuing our plobem's solutions is thinking actively about them.

A very good point, and something I actively struggle with.

[Rawhide]

^: Heh. I wish I was a heterosaxual. Being part saxophone would be awesome. In fact, you've just put a craving for sax into my brain. To youtube!

I had a girlfriend that played the saxophone, does that count as heterosaxual?

Come to think of it Coidzor, I see you post in here a lot but I've never seen you identify if you're straight/a supporter/an ally or one of the letters of the alphabet soup (and which). Granted, I only pay attention when I need to, so I could have easily missed it.

[Danne]

Another problem becomes that I am scared of active confrontation...

I don't want to have confrontation...

But I really dislike active confrontation...

Well there's your problem!

Seriously, stop thinking of speaking with her has having a confrontation. It's not a confrontation, it's a calm conversation between two people who (supposedly) really care about each other. For example, during a calm moment:

"Hey, AM, can I talk to you about something? I feel really hurt when you out me to people without my permission. It makes me really uncomfortable because there are some people who I might not want to know. My sexuality isn't some random person's business -- it's something that should stay between us, because we're friends, and I'm not friends with everyone, so I don't want everyone to know."

Play up the "it hurts me card" and not the "you do something I don't like" bit to fend off her taking offense.

The other option is to cut it off at the head. She does something you don't like, you tell her to stop. She gets all huffy, but eventually she gets over it. She does something you don't like, you tell her to stop. She gets all huffy, but eventually she gets over it. Repeat a few times, and if it doesn't get through to her she's a loser and you should ditch her. I know you said that's not an option, but seriously.

[turkishproverb]

You know how she felt after coming out?

She felt Lorn again.

And until then I was truly forLorn.

Without an Asta, I am simply loveLorn.*

Let's stop now.

*Actually the origin of the name.

You Lixe them?

*grabs head*

Nooo...

*collapses*

[AugustNights]

Hope everyone has a good 14th of February.

[Rainbow Servant]

Well, it's already winding down on this side of the world... and I still haven't dropped off the anonymous chocolates I got for my new (cute) neighbour. (Part of me is tempted to just eat them myself, part of me is too nervous/shy to drop them off, part of me wants to do it.)

But I hope you all have/have had a great Valentine's.

<3

[Serpentine]

So Molly Meldrum is gay.
I did not know this.
But I'm pretty sure I should've...

[Anuan]

...Yeah, it's not exactly a secret Just watch Spicks and Specks?

[Serpentine]

Yup.
Apparently Dolly Parton's boobs are very nearly enough to turn a man...

[KenderWizard]

Well, it's already winding down on this side of the world... and I still haven't dropped off the anonymous chocolates I got for my new (cute) neighbour. (Part of me is tempted to just eat them myself, part of me is too nervous/shy to drop them off, part of me wants to do it.)

But I hope you all have/have had a great Valentine's.

<3

Go for it! You don't regret what you do, you regret what you don't do! 'Tis the holiday for romantic gestures, now IS your moment!

Happy Valentine's everyone! Any romantic stories yet?

[Coidzor]

Apparently Dolly Parton's boobs are very nearly enough to turn a man...

Which way?

And how does a man end up with Molly as a nickname back in the mid-late 60s/early70s and keep it even into his own 60s?

That's much more interesting and mysterious than his sexuality or whether one should have known he was gay.

[Skeppio]

Happy Valentine's everyone! Any romantic stories yet?

My loved one (I'm not good with terms ) drew me an OotS style comic of us for Valentine's. Does that count?

I gotta get around to drawing one back. :D

[Lioness]

Exciting (sort of. Not really) revelation!

Lioness has a crush on one of the nightfillers at work

She's got short hair, and she's short, and she's really pretty.
I get flustered when she walks past, especially if I'm on the PA...

And I've got absolutely NO idea how to approach her/talk to her/not make an idiot of myself.

Help!

EDIT:...whoops. That probably should've gone in RW&A. But it's sort of LGBT, in that I have no idea whether she's straight or not...

[Mina Kobold]

^: Heh. I wish I was a heterosaxual. Being part saxophone would be awesome. In fact, you've just put a craving for sax into my brain. To youtube!

That's a very good point, we need to look into the benefits of human/saxophone hybrids.

Hmm... Sounds like you're stuck around adolescents and young adults who have yet to settle into themselves as an adult and grasp onto the few things that society tells them are part of adult identity.

Mayyybe. >.>

I must admit, I'm rather confused as to how you could get onto a train of thought that would lead one to think individuals should want to have sex with guys because they want to be one. Kind of disrespectful to trans individuals who are attracted to their birth sex, once one begins to apply that logic to a whole worldview.

What does sex have to do with anything? I think girls (and girly boys for that matter) are pretty but I would never have sex with them. That'd be icky. >.<

I did not mean to come off as saying that it's weird to preffer to be the opposite gender of what you find attractive, I apologise if I did.

My sleepy mind was just confused that despite the confusing ones' constant use of gay as an insult (Which is stupid in it's own right) and talk about liking girls they still go out of their ways to look like they should be in a Twilight* movie...

Oh. O_O

I guess basing my reasoning on a view on appearance based off of El Goonish Shive may not have been the smartest move I've made. ^_^'

*No offense mant to any to Twilight fans reading this.

[unosarta]

So, has anyone here read Poison Study by Maria v. Snyder?

I feel really stupid for not earlier realizing that Ambrose is transgender.

[Coidzor]

^: Nope. Sorry. That name rings an awfully large bell though...

That's a very good point, we need to look into the benefits of human/saxophone hybrids.

And how!

Which reminds me. Rawhide, in answer to your question, I think so, yes. Though the reason I forgot to reply earlier was because I got confused as to whether the 4 main types of saxophones (bass, tenor, alto, soprano) counted as 4 sexes of saxophone or 2 like with humies.

Spoiler

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In answer to your second question... I'd say about a 1 on the Kinsey scale, and I'd say I was more of a former ally than an active one due to having slowly grown distant from all of my friends who don't erase their own bisexuality. :/

My sleepy mind was just confused that despite the confusing ones' constant use of gay as an insult (Which is stupid in it's own right) and talk about liking girls they still go out of their ways to look like they should be in a Twilight* movie...

Ah, that. Wouldn't exactly call that embracing manliness.

I guess basing my reasoning on a view on appearance based off of El Goonish Shive may not have been the smartest move I've made. ^_^'

Hmm, now I'm confused and intrigued. Would you please explain this?