That's ONLY CR 9??? Let's Read: The Monster Manual II

[Safety Sword]

Yeah, its funny how quickly the pacing goes from "Monday and Friday" to "whenever I can update, usually on Monday."

I'm glad to see that someone will be making good use of this, though. I highly recommend the Braxat and the Automatons. They are my favorite reviewed so far (but, then again, we haven't gotten to the dinosaurs, yet).

Speaking of updates, on will be up later today.

Life happens.

[LOTRfan]

Breathdrinker

This creature seems sort of... "meh" to me.

Breathdrinkers are dangerous elementals from the Elemental Plane of Air. They are usually invisible, but when entering combat, they take the misty form of those they fight. Perhaps this is an attempt to unnerve prey? Still, why not just stay invisible when attacking? Isn't that more efficient?

As their name implies, Breathdrinkers kill enemies by sucking the air out of their lungs. Somehow, it actually gains sustenance from this. Its eyes, usually a dull red, become crimson right after a kill.

To be expected, Breathdrinkers usually live on the Elemental Plane of Air, but they are occasionally summoned as assassins by wizards. What is with Elemental Air and assassin monsters? The 2e books are filled with them. Anyway, occasionally stay behind to cause extra damage and revel in the bloody chaos they leave in their wake.

So why am I not so interested in this? It's a cool monster concept, to be sure... but this is basically a fusion of two other air elementals found in core 3.5: Belkers, and Invisible Stalkers.

Challenge Rating? Its currently listed as a 7. That makes sense, as the Invisible Stalker has 8 HD and a CR of 7 as well. Let's do the math, though. I gave the elemental traits a +4 modifier, because of the immunities and resistances. In the end, about a CR 7.

Spoiler

Show

60 divided by 5 (8 HD): 12
Armor Class: 16 (+1)
Special Attacks: Fear gaze, steal breath (+2)
Special Qualities: Air mastery, Damage Reduction 10/Magic, elemental traits, invisibility (+7)
Bonus Feats: None (+0)
22 divided by 3: 6.66
End Result: CR 7

Bronze Serpent

More constructs! That have electric bites!

Bronze Serpents were first created by the lost peoples of tropical lands. These guardian golems were made in the image of the serpentine gods of the temples they now protect. The construct itself is actually composed of many bronze rings bound together and given a magically electrified bite.

Over time, the hidden lore behind the construction of these magnificent machines became common knowledge. This is really good news if your parties have XP and gold to spare, and are at least 16th level. On the DM's side, I can see this as an interesting enemy in Yuan-Ti-themed adventures or regions based on the Mayan civilization.

Challenge Rating? Currently, they are listed as a 10. I think they might be a little over CRed, but if you include the new construct traits in 3.5e (like the fact that these guys should have an extra 40 hp), that should counterbalance it. Doing the math, it seems that CR 10 was actually just right for the 3.0 Bronze Serpent. Updated to 3.5, its CR 12.

Construction: Alright, you need to have a wizard/sorcerer/arcane caster of at least 16th level. The cost of making one is nearly three times that of the much more durable Iron Golem, though. If you want something flavorful and don't mind spending huge wads of cash, the Bronze Serpent is cool. Otherwise, just go for the Iron Golem (heck, even the epic Mithral Golem is only a little more expensive than this beast, so you might as well go with that, instead )

Good news! The official conversion actually fixes it! The cost is now less than a forth of what is mentioned in the book, at 46,500 gp! Suddenly, it looks like a much more viable choice, eh?

Spoiler

Show

128 divided by 6 (16 HD): 21.33 (about 21)
Armor Class: 26 (+3)
Special Attacks: Constrict, Improved Grab, Shocking Bite (+3)
Special Qualities: Construct Traits, Damage Reduction 10/Magic, electric healing, resistance to electricity 10, Spell Resistance 21 (+9)
Bonus Feats: None (+0)
36 divided by 3: 12
End Result: CR 12

[TroubleBrewing]

Ugh. Another CR 5+ monster with damage reduction/Magic. That whole advantage literally disappears as soon as you have about 1300 GP in one place.

Serpent: "I'm CR 12!"

Schmuck With a +1 Sword: "You have more health than me, but your damage reduction is USELESS!"

Ugh. /rant.

[Claudius Maximus]

Ugh. Another CR 5+ monster with damage reduction/Magic. That whole advantage literally disappears as soon as you have about 1300 GP in one place.

Serpent: "I'm CR 12!"

Schmuck With a +1 Sword: "You have more health than me, but your damage reduction is USELESS!"

Ugh. /rant.

A +1 weapon is 2300 gp.

/completelymissingthepoint

[IthilanorStPete]

A +1 weapon is 2300 gp.

/completelymissingthepoint

PLUS the base cost of the weapon.

/whereisthatpointthinganyway

[TroubleBrewing]

PLUS the base cost of the weapon.

The base cost is the ~300.

goesbacktoragingaboutDR/magic/

[LOTRfan]

I have no excuse for that. Even in 3.0 terms, its pretty bad. It has Damage Reduction 10/+1 there, too.

The official conversion doesn't even mention the Damage Reduction, at all.

[IthilanorStPete]

The base cost is the ~300.

goesbacktoragingaboutDR/magic/

Hey, the 5 gp or whatever for a sword could be important! Times are hard, you know! *waves a protest sign attached to the end of a spiked chain*

[Claudius Maximus]

I seriously considered a tilde, but then said "screw it, who's going to bring up the base weapon cost?"

What do you know.

[LOTRfan]

Looking back, all creatures so far that have DR either have Damage Reduction/Magic or /Magic and Bludgeoning....

[TroubleBrewing]

See, my blood doesn't boil at Magic/Bludgeoning. DR is supposed to be difficult to overcome, and being able to get through DR/Magic is a given at any level above about 6. DR/Magic and Bludgeoning is more likely to be a challenge, though. The party beatstick has only got about a 1 in 3 chance to have a bludgeoning weapon.

Giving high-CR creatures DR/magic is pointless. It might as well not be included in the stat block. Magic weapons and high-level parties are a given in 3.5.

[Provengreil]

See, my blood doesn't boil at Magic/Bludgeoning. DR is supposed to be difficult to overcome, and being able to get through DR/Magic is a given at any level above about 6. DR/Magic and Bludgeoning is more likely to be a challenge, though. The party beatstick has only got about a 1 in 3 chance to have a bludgeoning weapon.

Giving high-CR creatures DR/magic is pointless. It might as well not be included in the stat block. Magic weapons and high-level parties are a given in 3.5.

I'd say less that 1/3 chance of magic and bludgeoning. the most popular weapons, as far as i know, are spiked chains, greataxes, greatswords, and light weapons with good crit ranges like rapiers and kukris. none of these are bludgeoning.

a good beatstick has a bit of a golf bag going, but by the time he hits it, figures out the dr, figures out what he needs to cut it, and gets the appropriate weapon, the party wizard has probably dealt with the monster.

[No brains]

Scared of damage types? Go halberd! You start off with two types, and with a feat, you can two weapon fight with the third!

[ffone]

See, my blood doesn't boil at Magic/Bludgeoning. DR is supposed to be difficult to overcome, and being able to get through DR/Magic is a given at any level above about 6. DR/Magic and Bludgeoning is more likely to be a challenge, though. The party beatstick has only got about a 1 in 3 chance to have a bludgeoning weapon.

Giving high-CR creatures DR/magic is pointless. It might as well not be included in the stat block. Magic weapons and high-level parties are a given in 3.5.

But wouldn't it be weird if stronger versions of some monsters had no DR instead of DR magic?

Sure, PCs will most likely overcome it, but so what, as long as the CR assumes that.

Also, it's a check and egg complaint: if it weren't for DR /magic, even some mid level Pcs might not bother with magic weapon. I had a rather high level TWF rogue whose weapons were still only +1, b/c with MIC she had other more important things to spend it on.

Also-

-Summoned monsters may not overcome it.
-Throwing weapon specialists.
-PCs who have to resort to backup weapons (ranged weapon, they get disarmed, etc.) may use mundane versions.

[Sarco_Phage]

More importantly, NPCs without magic weapons can't hurt it, meaning they have to call on the oh-so-mighty PCs. Theyah heah to kiw yaw monstah, after all.

[MosAnted]

Ha! I was just rereading the MM2 and wondering about some of the bizarre CR's. Good work! Can't wait to see you tackle the dragonflesh golem and the juggernaut

Also, a small suggestion for monster with CR<CL (ie abeil queen and bone naga), I'd say give them a minimum CR = CL, so the Abeil Queen would turn out to be CR 16 and the Bone Naga CR 14. It's rough but it's a simple guideline IMO, now you just have to check if their other abilities/qualities are enough to increase the CR even more.

[LOTRfan]

Catoblepas

The Catoblepas is a nasty creature original found in Ethiopian legends, described as a monster with a bison-like body, a pig-like head, and a set of elephantine legs. Although the illustration doesn't show it (), the actual physical description in the book does. They greatly inflate its size, though, to the point that it is dragon-sized instead of bull-sized.

According to the MM II, Catoblepas are aberrations, possibly the result of a terribly performed magical ritual of some sort. The Catoblepas has a nasty tail that whips around with astonishing speed. They have many killer attacks, including death rays, and a stunning tail whip. Yes, you heard that right. It has laser eyes and a taser for a tail.

Interestingly enough, this creature is actually an obligate herbivore. It lives almost exclusively on ferns, reeds, and other swamp-plants. They only consume meat once a month, usually during the full moon. Interestingly enough, catoblepas offspring also have stats. The designs actually expect us to slaughter infant creatures? Whatever, I guess if dragon babies can be killed, so can catoblepas babies.

Challenge Rating? Currently, it is listed as CR 6. This seems a little iffy, as the creature has a save-or-die and players don't get death ward until level 7. Surely it wouldn't be a big deal if they were bumped up a level, right? Doing the math, the adult is in the late CR 5s, early CR 6s. Lopsided design, I guess. If you follow my feat suggestions, though, it should be better as a mid-late Cr 6, early CR 7 creature.

Spoiler

Show

Adult Catoblepas
57 divided by 5 (6 HD): 11
Armor Class: 19 (+1)
Special Attacks: Death ray, stun (+4)
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., scent (+1)
Bonus Feats: It has an Intelligence of 2. It seems that you need to have an intelligence of at least 3 to have feats in 3.0. For 3.5, I suggest Weapon Focus (Tail), Improved Toughness, and Improved Scent.
17 divided by 3: 5.666
End Result: CR 6

Young Catoblepas
28 divided by 4.5 (3 HD): 6.222 (about 6)
Armor Class: 19 (+1)
Special Attacks: None (+0)
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., scent (+1)
Bonus Feats: For 3.5, I suggest Improved Toughness, and Improved Scent as regular feats.
8 divided by 3: 2.666
End Result: CR 3

[No brains]

Thank god for catoblepas! For a while I was worried the weirdest thing on this thread was me! *phew*

You can murder its babies and it has a true save or die attack before you get the spell defense. Unless you are really, really into Ethiopian mythology* the only way i can see to use this creature is to dish non-rock justice upon a player who likes to kill baby creatures.


*(Also included: Dwarves with penises so long they must be slung over their shoulder [citation needed, badly]. Andromeda not supported as that was the other Ethiopia from Greek myth. Yeah.)

[Flickerdart]

Or you could just use several of them after players get Death Ward. Two adults and a few kids should be a fine CR10 or so.

[Volthawk]

Or you could just use several of them after players get Death Ward. Two adults and a few kids should be a fine CR10 or so.

Using the encounter calculator (and saying adults are CR 6), it seems 4-7 kids fit CR 10 (depends on how hard or easy you want it)

[Milo v3]

If 2.666 equals 3, shouldn't 5.666 equal 6. Just wondering.

[LOTRfan]

If 2.666 equals 3, shouldn't 5.666 equal 6. Just wondering.

Thats an editing error.

[MammonAzrael]

Oh, these things are fun. Of course, I've only fought one in 2nd edition, which pretty touch-and-go.

It seems to me like mythological monsters are the most difficult to model for D&D a lot of the time, as many of them have abilities that flat out kill targets...which doesn't make for good game design. I'm really enjoy this thread, looking forward to more!

[Forum Explorer]

This is pretty good. Also posting so I can find the thread again.

[No brains]

"Agreed!" *bangs gavel*

[lumosdefortuno]

Dude, Asperi make the best freedom Paladin mounts EVER! So Awesome!

[No brains]

I'm so excited for the new update today! My talc-fragile hopes are way up on high!

[LOTRfan]

It should be done within the next two hours. Last week was a holiday, so sorry about that.

[flabort]

did you enjoy the candy-filled zombie apocalypse over where you are?
And thanks on updating us on your progress.

[LOTRfan]

Celestials

Woo! Personally, I always love a new Celestial creature. There are always so many fiends, and not enough good guys. I guess thematically it makes sense, given that PCs are more likely to start slaying evil creatures than good-aligned ones. Still, its nice to have the occasional ally, right?

I'm slightly confused about why these two creatures (both are new types of Guardinals) don't just have a Guardinal entry, but okay. It also seems that in 3.0, Guadinal was not a subtype. That could explain the fact that they are sorted as untyped Celestials. They don't have the powers given by the Guardinal subtype either, so that'll have to be figured into the new CR as well.

The Cervidals (goat-like Guardinals) are the most common of their race. For those who do not know, Guardinals are always Neutral Good (here incorrectly labeled as usually Neutral Good) celestials native to Elysium. Most have animal-like traits, hinted at in their names (Urisnal, Leonal, Avoral, etc.). Anyway, Cervidals are weak compared to most of their kin, and live at the top layer of Elysium. They are guardians of the layer (called Amoria), and as a result are rarely seen elsewhere.

While thin, Cervidals are surprisingly muscular. They are also covered in short, thick brown hair and have two horns. Horn can also be found growing from their hands, which allows them to use the horns as a nasty slamming weapon. Its horns have intense magical properties, capable of performing small miracles. The touch of its horn can dispel illusions, cure poison, and remove disease, and dismiss malevolent outsiders. All of these affects work as if cast by a 20th level divine spellcaster, and are usable at-will.

Lupinals are humanoid, glorious wolf-like creatures. Unlike Cervidals, who are defenders, Lupinals are trackers. They hunt down and slaughter fiends who try to hide in either the Upper Planes or even the transitive planes. They are more likely to help others against evil intruders than others of their kind (the rest of the Guardinals prefer to guard the souls of great good doers in Elysium's paradise rather than fight outside of Elysium).

Lupinals are pack based, and they operate in perfect harmony. If it were not for its unnatural calming aura, the Lupinal could easily be confused as a werewolf in human form. When angered, though, this calming aura transforms to strike fear in the hearts of enemies. They also have very fast reflexes, able to deflect projectile weapons launched at it three times a round, provided one of its hands are free.

Challenge Rating? Cervidals are listed as CR 3 and Lupinals are CR 5. I sort of expect the creatures' CR to go up by 1, because of their new 3.5 abilities. Upon doing the math, the Cervidal is CR 5, which is kind of high for a 4 HD creature. To be fair, though, most Celestials have more powers than the average (just look at the Angels, for example). Lupinals went up by two for CR as well.

Spoiler

Show

Cervidal
26 divided by 4.5 (4 HD): 6.5 (about 6)
Armor Class: 19 (+1)
Special Attacks: Charge, spell-like abilities (+2)
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., resistance to cold 10 and sonic 10, speak with animals, lay on hands, immunity to electricity and petrification, horn powers (+7)
Bonus Feats: None (+0)
15 divided by 3: 5
End Result: CR 5

Lupinal
44 divided by 5 (8 HD): 8.8 (about 9)
Armor Class: 20 (+2)
Special Attacks: Fear Aura, Improved Grab, Trip, spell-like abilities (+4)
Special Qualities: resistance to cold 10 and sonic 10, speak with animals, lay on hands, immunity to electricity and petrification, darkvision 60 ft., dodge missiles, scent, Damage Reduction 5/Evil (+7)
Bonus Feats: None (+0)
22 divided by 3: 7.3333 (about 7)
End Result: CR 7