That's ONLY CR 9??? Let's Read: The Monster Manual II

[No brains]

With only 28 hp, that monster is going deep down if the party gets one turn at level 7. At level 7, a monk could trash that thing! Especially since low HD and Cha give its abilities abysmal DCs.

It also doesn't add up that this thing has a fear aura, but requires melee to kill.

[RaggedAngel]

With only 28 hp, that monster is going deep down if the party gets one turn at level 7. At level 7, a monk could trash that thing! Especially since low HD and Cha give its abilities abysmal DCs.

It also doesn't add up that this thing has a fear aura, but requires melee to kill.

Why does it require melee to kill? I see nothing about it resisting spells in any special manner, and the best way to avoid the nasty touch poison and shriek attack is to simply blast the thing the first chance you get. And, because it's so squishy, it shouldn't take much blasting. Seriously, most sorcerers and wizards have more hit points than this thing at level 7. It's a bit lame.

[Boci]

Why does it require melee to kill? I see nothing about it resisting spells in any special manner, and the best way to avoid the nasty touch poison and shriek attack is to simply blast the thing the first chance you get. And, because it's so squishy, it shouldn't take much blasting. Seriously, most sorcerers and wizards have more hit points than this thing at level 7. It's a bit lame.

I think they mean the creature requires to be in melee to kill enemies.

[Canarr]

It's like the movie Signs: once they started showing the aliens, it began to suck. Big time.

Reading the comic with that thing popping up was cool; especially, when the lizardman ripped off its finger and his hands started to melt off (althoug how he manages to be the biggest and toughest character in the group, and still blow all Fortitude saves, I've no idea). But reading the stats kinda ruined the horror; yeah, throw that at any lvl 7 party, they'll thrash it in half a round.

[Divide by Zero]

(althoug how he manages to be the biggest and toughest character in the group, and still blow all Fortitude saves, I've no idea)

That was the part that blew my suspension of disbelief. There's no way he should have failed all of those.

[Fable Wright]

That was the part that blew my suspension of disbelief. There's no way he should have failed all of those.

He didn't. Three saves results in death- he only lost an arm. He still needs to fail one more fortitude save to die. Also, he held that finger for several rounds before his hand began to melt- something to be expected.

[NineThePuma]

Clockwork Horrors are the beetle constructs that try to take over the world, right?

[TroubleBrewing]

IIRC, he actually licked it, too.


Ewwwwwww.

[Milo v3]

Clockwork Horrors are the beetle constructs that try to take over the world, right?

Yep. They also have lazers and chainsaws.

[Malimar]

But reading the stats kinda ruined the horror; yeah, throw that at any lvl 7 party, they'll thrash it in half a round.

Hasn't Thunt always been pretty cagey about what level his characters are? The main-group goblins are level 2 or 3 at this point, if I've been keeping anything like accurate track of how often they've leveled up. Dies Horribly has to be lower (I'd guess 1 or 2 at most), and Grem has to have at least a few class levels, if he's among the best warriors in his tribe. But, while K'seliss is a minimum of ECL3 (2RHD+1LA), there's no way of knowing what his actual level is. I'd venture not much higher than that minimum; he hasn't been doing anything preposterously super-human (as one should expect from ECL5+) that I can recall, aside from shrugging off limb loss like it, uh, ain't no thang, which may just be a lizardfolk thing.

Which is to say: sure, the finger horror is no problem for a full level 7 party, but this isn't remotely a full level 7 party.



...All of that said, I'm looking forward to more of this thread's actual topic. I'm especially curious about the myconids, my favourite of the MMII monsters, though they're still a long way off.

[Fable Wright]

Clockwork Horrors are the beetle constructs that try to take over the world, right?

...I don't think they even need to try...

[LOTRfan]

Dies Horribly has to be lower (I'd guess 1 or 2 at most), and Grem has to have at least a few class levels, if he's among the best warriors in his tribe. But, while K'seliss is a minimum of ECL3 (2RHD+1LA), there's no way of knowing what his actual level is.

None of these guys have PC levels. All are appalled that Saves has six levels of fighter, remember? If I had to guess, Grem and Dies Horribly are both 1st level Goblin warriors, like the ones strait out of the Monster Manual. Perhaps with different feats and ability scores.

As for K'seliss, that's a little more hard to say. He was experimented on before/shrtly after his birth, remember? He was fused with Ogre blood, so he is noticeably bigger than the standard Lizardfolk (he is large rather than medium). Now, if we go by the Monster Manual advancement rules (which, admittedly is not likely what Thunt did), he has at least 4 HD, and thus at least an ECL 5 character. Of course, its more likely he is a homebrewed subrace of lizardfolk with ogre-like racial abilities too, rather than an advanced lizardfolk.

...I don't think they even need to try...

With at-will distjunction at CR 9? Its amazing they haven't started ruling the world, already. But that's okay, 'cause in 4e their demons, and can't get to the Material Plane anyway.

[arkol]

Why not an half-orge lizardfolk?

[No brains]

Or a blackscale Lizardfolk! That's in the next MM, though.

[MosAnted]

With at-will distjunction at CR 9? Its amazing they haven't started ruling the world, already. But that's okay, 'cause in 4e their demons, and can't get to the Material Plane anyway.

Don't forget at will disintegrate AND implosion

Demons in 4e? I don't know whether to laugh or cry

[Munchkin-Masher]

Oh how i despise chain golems, one of those things killed of the the most fun characters i've ever played.

[Forbiddenwar]

Oh how i despise chain golems, one of those things killed of the the most fun characters i've ever played.

I Love chain golems. Our DM keeps throwing them at us, and they die so quick due to their low hit dice.

[LOTRfan]

And now I am pleased to present to you the namesake of this thread, the....

Clockwork Horror

Ah, the clockwork horrors, plaguing adventurers since 2e. These evil machines have a lot of fluffy aspects to them, some mentioned in the Monster Manual II, the rest in Spelljammer (the campy sci-fi fantasy setting we all know and love). I'll take care of the fluff mentioned here, first, before moving on to the rest.

Clockwork horrors are highly intelligent arachnoid constructs that have one purpose: strip entire planets of their natural materials to create more of their wretched kind. Each construct has an iron "skeleton," which is then supplemented by plating made from various precious metals. Each metal denotes the rank of the clockwork horror. All clockwork horrors are small, 2-feet in diameter freaks of nature that ignore biological creatures unless they wear metal (unfortunately for most adventurers, most of their armor and weapons are metal. Those overpowered druids are safe, though. ). They each also have a deadly natural weapon taking the form of a bloody saw that juts from their "mouths." All horrors have a gem that powers them, and serves as their sensor organs. This means that the shatter spell damages and blinds them. Clockwork horrors can communicate with other horrors within a 10 mile radius.

Electrum Horrors are the weakest, serving as shock troops and scouts. They scout out areas in advance, study the local populations, and ultimately create the base of operations for a future clockwork horror invasion. They troll-like in intelligence. Electrum horrors can fire pressure darts at enemies.

Gold Horrors are the commanders of the clockwork horror armies. Each one leads a "module," or battle group, of Electrum Horrors. They are just below average human-intellect. When using their saws against magic items, the saws count as +2 weapons. They can also fire lightning bolts every 2 rounds.

If Gold Horrors are the commanders, Platinum Horrors are the generals. They actual plan on where to deploy troops, devise strategies, and determines the importance of the targets the Electrum Horrors study. Against magic weapons, their saw counts as a +3 weapon, and they too can fire lightning bolys every 2 rounds.

The Adamantine Horror is the one-of-a-kind, cruel leader of the horror armies. He is the only living creature in the multiverse who knows the true secrets behind the Clockwork Horrors. Some say that it has developed the perverse need to reproduce like biological creatures, and that is why it constantly creates new clockwork horrors. His saw counts as a +5 weapon when being used against magical items, and he has implosion, disintegration, and disjunction as at-will spell-like abilities!

Challenge Rating? HAHAHA! HAHA! HA! I can guarantee you that all these creatures (except possibly the electrum horror) are overpowered for their CR. I feel I should also mention that despite having the proper number of feats for their HD, all their feats are labeled as bonus feats. For the purpose of this calculation, I am ignoring this unless they have more bonus feats than they would have regular feats. Electrum Horror should be CR 5 (instead of 4), Gold CR 7 (this definitely wasn't 5, anyway), Platinum CR 8 (used to be 7), and Adamantine CR 12 (instead of 9). Personally, I still think Adamantine might be a little on the low side with this calculation (Balors, CR 20, can cast implosion 1/day). If I were you, I'd switch the abilities from at-will to 3/day. It might help even out a seriously messed up monster (even if only a little). Keep in mind that the Adamantine Horror is meant to be a Big Bad, of sorts.

Spoiler

Show

Electrum Horror
32 hp divided by 4.5 (4 HD): 7.11 (about 7)
Armor Class: 19 (+1)
Special Attacks: ---- (+0)
Special Qualities: Construct traits, immunity to electricity, linked mind, spell vulnerability, Spell Resistance 17 (+6)
Bonus Feats: None (+0)
14 divided by 3: 4.666 (about 5)
End Result: On the weak side of CR 5.

Gold Horror
54 hp divided by 5 (8 HD): 10.8 (about 11)
Armor Class: 22 (+2)
Special Attacks: Lightning Bolt (+1)
Special Qualities: Construct traits, immunity to electricity, linked mind, spell vulnerability, Spell Resistance 18 (+6)
Bonus Feats: None (+0)
20 divided by 3: 6.66 (about 7)
End Result: Weak side of CR 7

Platinum Horror
76 divided by 5.5 (12 HD): 13.818 (about 14)
Armor Class: 25 (+3)
Special Attacks: Lightning Bolt (+1)
Construct traits, immunity to electricity, linked mind, spell vulnerability, Spell Resistance 20 (+6)
Bonus Feats: Platinum Horror is actually missing a feat. Conversion packet suggests Combat Reflexes (+0)
24 divided by 3: 8
End Result: CR 8 creature.

Adamantine Horror
98 divided by 6 (16 HD): 16.3333 (about 16)
Armor Class: 28 (+3)
Special Attacks: Spell-like Abilities (+12)
Special Qualities: Construct traits, immunity to electricity, linked mind, spell vulnerability, Spell Resistance 22 (+6)
Bonus Feats: Adamantine Horror is actually missing a feat. Conversion packet suggests Combat Reflexes (+0)
37 divided by 3: 12.333
End Result: CR 12 critter.

[Savannah]

Those overpowered druids are safe, though.

Monks are safe, too

[NineThePuma]

So, I should use them as baddies for an E6 campaign. Got it.


Out of curiosity, what were their listed CRs?

[LOTRfan]

They were:

Electrum 4
Gold 5
Platinum 7
Adamantine (check the title).

I'll add those in, now. I also added a picture.

[NineThePuma]

Is it bad I wanna do a full on conversion of them into 3.5 critters that actually have enough forms to make a campaign around?

[LOTRfan]

Ecology of the Clockwork Horror introduces two new variants, the Copper and Silver Horrors. If you want, I can e-mail you that stats. And no, it is not bad. Tell me how it works out.

[Gnoman]

HAHAHA! HAHA! HA! I can guarantee you that all these creatures (except possibly the electrum horror) are underpowered for their CR.

Think you mean the opposite there.

[LOTRfan]

Think you mean the opposite there.

>.> <.<

Challenge Rating? HAHAHA! HAHA! HA! I can guarantee you that all these creatures (except possibly the electrum horror) are overpowered for their CR.

I have no idea what you are talking about... ()

[NineThePuma]

Ecology of the Clockwork Horror introduces two new variants, the Copper and Silver Horrors. If you want, I can e-mail you that stats. And no, it is not bad. Tell me how it works out.

Please do.

Do note, however, that I was going to brew those up myself.

There should probably be an Iron Horror in there somewhere too. x3

[MrRigger]

Personally, I think CR 12 is still a little low for the Adamantine Horror. Even if you ignore the fact that it can utterly destroy the party's weapons, armor, and other fun magical items (which would be difficult to replace at level 12, much less if the party was lower level and you were using it as a BBEG), it can still dish out 32d6 damage every round as a ranged touch attack. Even if they roll low for damage, not many level 12 characters are going to survive more than a few rounds of that.

MrRigger

[LOTRfan]

Personally, I think CR 12 is still a little low for the Adamantine Horror. Even if you ignore the fact that it can utterly destroy the party's weapons, armor, and other fun magical items (which would be difficult to replace at level 12, much less if the party was lower level and you were using it as a BBEG), it can still dish out 32d6 damage every round as a ranged touch attack. Even if they roll low for damage, not many level 12 characters are going to survive more than a few rounds of that.

MrRigger

I agree. I think that this creature suffers the lopsided design syndrome mentioned by a poster way back on the first page of this thread. There is not much I can do in that case, even with my suggestion of lowering the spell-like abilities to 3/day.

[Fable Wright]

I agree. I think that this creature suffers the lopsided design syndrome mentioned by a poster way back on the first page of this thread. There is not much I can do in that case, even with my suggestion of lowering the spell-like abilities to 3/day.

Truenamer syndrome? I think that might be the best way to describe this monster... (The high-level kind; the one that chain-gates solars, not the one that fails at everything.)

[Zaq]

Yeah, even CR 12 seems a little low for something with multiple 9th-level spells as SLAs, 3/day or no 3/day. I guess it's technically better than at-will, but . . . that thing just isn't CRable.