Building From the Ground Up

[Curious]

So. I like the idea of building a campaign setting, and I have tons of ideas for different kingdoms, duchies, nations, races and more, but I am inexperienced. What I always get stuck up on when thinking about the basis of a world is how it works. Why do these people live here? How do the ocean currents affect trade in this city, how would proximity to this mountain range affect migrations of people and ideas, what would the climate be like? I have some small knowledge of geography and what forms the basic necessities of civilization, but it takes a lot of work to imagine an entire world- or even part of a world -all by yourself.
So I got to thinking; what if I got a group together and created a campaign setting from the ground up. Start with the geography, figure out continents, climate, and so on. Then, we assign different 'flavors' to areas of the world. For instance, one part of a continent might have the main flavor be 'Polynesian-style island hoppers' or 'Renaissance Europe' or 'Zulu' or any other of hundreds of different types of cultural grouping. After that, we would decide on the cosmology of the setting, whether it be the classic 'Inner and Outer planes' model, or a great cosmic tree, or whatever.
From there, we could advance through different races, technologies, and any of the other myriad subjects that need to be dealt with. So, would anyone be interested in this? Any number of people would be welcomed to contribute ideas and help construct this edifice, and I hope you enjoy the process of creation as much as the result.

Cheers!



The Infinite Ocean

After several weeks of intensive debates, suggestions, and general messing about, we have finally managed to hash out something resembling a campaign setting. It is still in the beginning stages, issues being worked out and all that, so fluff and everything here is quite mutable and subject to editing at any moment. So with that said, here's what we've got.


The World:

The Infinite Ocean is a plane of endless wind-tossed waves which sink forever into the deep of the waters, where the gods dwell. Land does exist, however, diffused across the surface as scattered islands that float haphazardly with the winds and the waves. Vast currents of deep water often sweep these drifting specks along with them, trapping them in enormous cycles, if they are lucky. Tiny, alone, and bereft of comfort, the sapient species live as they have for all eternity; by the sword.

Relevant posts;
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=124
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=132
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=133
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=134
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=139


The Gods:

The Sea is not a kind mistress, a neither are the gods. Maddening, incomprehensible, and utterly beyond comprehension, the gods care nothing for man or the other races as anything but sacrifices. While the greatest dwell in the deep places of the ocean where none but their servants can reach, the gods dwelling among or near the isles who play their games with the small people are perhaps worse still. Caring naught for the desires of mortals but their own twisted, uncompromising and often incomprehensible desires.

Relevant posts;
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=30
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=31
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=60
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=67
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=72
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=74
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=139
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=142
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=143


Time and the Celestial Bodies:

So far, we seem to have a lot of moons, that are part of a god.

Relevant posts;
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=130
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=132
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=133
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=135


The Races:

There are numerous races that dot the islands of the Ocean, but these are the primary ones that are contained within the boundaries of the current.

The Urukh: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=100

The Gremlins: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=69

The T'car: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=69

The Stoneborn: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=51

The Clatchin: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=58

The Kree: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=59

The Cuttleghasts: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=156

The Sotong: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=92

The Humans: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#humans

The Yurians: http://monsterfinder.dndrunde.de/det...773%26skip%3D0

[Temassasin]

I'd like to help and i recomend that everybody who does reads ricks a new world
so for the Geography i always wanted to create a pangea or world of islands

[Omeganaut]

Sure. Would you like us to put forth our ideas so that you can combine them with your own ideas, or would you like to give your ideas and have us evaluate and add to them? because its a little unclear. (sorry, I tend to critique everything). But I'd love to help because I'm not ready to put together an entire world either.

[Curious]

Great! Two already!
Well, I have a number of ideas, but in general I wish to put together this setting from the creative efforts of everyone involved. I do hope that my ideas are used, but if no one likes them, then I am perfectly willing to toss them out and work on something new.

So, the first suggestion is an island world. This would definitely be very different than other settings, with severely limited resources and a comparatively lower population. There could be a lot of potential for exploration, discovering the secret dangers of distant archipelagos inhabited by exotic natives. I like it quite a bit.

Any other ideas, or suggestions?

[DragonOfUndeath]

I like the Island idea, it allows for a diversity and exploration not usually seen on a Pangea or 2-3 Supercontinent worlds

[Dragon Elite]

You could take an idea from the Dead-Tossed Waves, where the Mudo (zombies) wash up on shore during large storms. It could add an apocalypse setting, without the apocalypse being inside the area where the players are.

[Omeganaut]

Have an enclave of wizards on a perfectly round island with a perfectly round mesa in the middle. And that mesa actually is a dormant volcano, but the wizards are afraid it will explode so they have to put so much effort into containing the volcano that they are unable to really affect the rest of the world.

[Icedaemon]

I agree on the 'go with islands' people. Islands are fun. Lots of naval combat will also change the sort of PCs you can look forward to - swashbucklers become more common than fighters, for instance. A chain of small islands and maybe a large one at one part thereof. If you haven't already, look at the peak lines in this form of terrain generation.

Personally, I suggest a cold temperate setting area. Those who make viking-like cultures rarely remember that vikings were traders at least as often as they were raiders. A warlike culture that acts as the main source of island-to-island commerce while on occasion acting very aggressively would be interesting. Foodstuffs are scarce, because some islands are little more than patches of bare tundra (but might be crucial in that they have great mineral wealth).

When making many different races, consider this: If all these race evolved together, from similar or separate roots, how did the weaker/more peaceful ones avoid getting wiped out by the stronger people? With islands, this is easier but still bears thinking about.

[DragonOfUndeath]

The world we are working on should be small compared to normal worlds, maybe the size of the Atlantic rather than Earth sized. It's big enough for some big islands and diversity but small enough to save us from stating up 300 different nations with slightly different views/abilities

Idea: Psionic Island.
The grass growing on the Island reacts with even slight Psionic pulses, amplifying them. Anything that eats the grass would become powerful Psions and whatever ate them would also get it.
You would end up with a very Psionic-based society, hinging their culture off it and would be perplexed by their Non-Psionic neighbors on other islands/

[akma]

It is a campaign world, not a campaign area. We can have all climates and all sorts of land structures.
There could be lots of small islands in the north and a supercontinent in the south, for exemple.
Unless you want the geography to fit a certain feel, no need for it being uniform, which brings me to my next point:
I think that geography, climate, etc should be decided after we decide what would be the feel of the world, and what would be the main themes.

[Curious]

A discussion on themes is probably a good idea. What kind of feel do we want this world to have? Fantastic, gritty, dystopian, pulp, what comes to mind? I personally would love a really mythological feel to the world, with spirits and men living side by side. Ideas?

[Icedaemon]

It is a campaign world, not a campaign area. We can have all climates and all sorts of land structures.
There could be lots of small islands in the north and a supercontinent in the south, for exemple.
Unless you want the geography to fit a certain feel, no need for it being uniform, which brings me to my next point:
I think that geography, climate, etc should be decided after we decide what would be the feel of the world, and what would be the main themes.

Building an entire detailed campaign world is a huge amount of work. A single island chain or small continent to start with would be sufficient four times out if five.

[Curious]

Building an entire detailed campaign world is a huge amount of work. A single island chain or small continent to start with would be sufficient four times out if five.

This is reasonable. We should assume for now that any areas we create are all within an area about the size of the Indian ocean. So far we have a suggestion for a world of island chains and archipelagos, and some ideas for unique islands. We'll keep that in mind, but I would like to discuss the main theme of the world before we get any further into it. Should it be a setting based around the idea of exploration, or perhaps conflicts between traders and raiding forces battling for scarce resources? Any suggestions would be useful for brainstorming and thought.

[DragonOfUndeath]

I vote Grim and gritty with scarce resources
Though some would have more than others

[Temassasin]

I'm thinking A depraved and brutal world with lots of resources and wild magics

[Valley]

Just a question - would an island world, having a huge ocean, generate huge storms? Travel, outside of the nearest chain of islands, may be very dangerous. An IC excuse to leave large parts of the map unexplored - and open for ideas later on - adventure, gold, getting sucked down into the depths of the sea by a storm...

[oblivion6]

i might be able to help.

[Curious]

So far we've got a grim, dark world of scattered islands, with terrible storms that isolate the people. Since we seem to be going with that base for now, what kind of cosmology should we use? I was thinking we could have there be no actual land; once you go deep enough into the water, you disappear into some dark world within the world. I also tend to enjoy a rather animistic approach to deities, but I'd like to hear other opinions.

[DragonOfUndeath]

Why have Deities at all? Or go WH40K and have the Gods be Evil Bastards whose wrath is kept away by a single Good God

[Temassasin]

i think there should be gods but they should be something out of Lovecraft

[Curious]

Evil gods of the deep? That would be an interesting situation. Perhaps 'gods' are physical in form on this world, shaped as serpents or giant turtles, or whatnot. Or even as Lovecraftian horrors, as Tem suggests. So worship of gods might be prohibited or even reviled, and clerics probably hung on sight.

[oblivion6]

i like that idea

[Valley]

Evil gods of the deep? That would be an interesting situation. Perhaps 'gods' are physical in form on this world, shaped as serpents or giant turtles, or whatnot. Or even as Lovecraftian horrors, as Tem suggests. So worship of gods might be prohibited or even reviled, and clerics probably hung on sight.

The best part of the Lovecraftian idea is that many of this Gods had goals and ideas and civilizations, in some cases not giving a fig for humankind. There can be wheels within wheels within wheels, in which wars are fought and won and humans don't even know what is happening.

[DragonOfUndeath]

The best part of the Lovecraftian idea is that many of this Gods had goals and ideas and civilizations, in some cases not giving a fig for humankind. There can be wheels within wheels within wheels, in which wars are fought and won and humans don't even know what is happening.

Orange and Blue morality? The gods are looked upon as Evil (with some Good, but rare and still viewed with suspicion) when they don't follow the same conventions as Mortals.
It would let them play a part in the world, as mysterious things that can either be Quest-Givers or BBEGs but don't play a big role.
Constant Divine War would also explain the storms, they mark battles deep in the sea or are attacks themselves in the endless game of Cthulu Chess

[Curious]

That sounds great! Whirlpools and storms aren't just natural phenomenon; they are the symptoms of the world being torn apart by mighty elder beings. We are going to have to make up some awesome sea creatures for this setting at some point.

Okay, so cosmology. Besides the ancient ones dwelling beneath the waves, what sort of 'divine' or mystical creatures should exist? What should the world look like? I've already suggested the 'bottomless ocean' idea for an idea, and other ideas would help to get the creative juices stirring. Anybody hve some ideas?

[DragonOfUndeath]

Squids, tentacle-monsters, Mermen, Lesser-Cthulu Armies?

Many of the things would be war-focused due to the massive amounts of it going on under the storms so armour and weapons would be around in droves

[Valley]

Okay, so cosmology. Besides the ancient ones dwelling beneath the waves, what sort of 'divine' or mystical creatures should exist? What should the world look like? I've already suggested the 'bottomless ocean' idea for an idea, and other ideas would help to get the creative juices stirring. Anybody hve some ideas?

Ever read Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser? Their world is a bubble in a ocean - at least that is the theory their wisemen have created. And the landmass is on the inside of the bubble.

So the sun, stars and moon are just objects moving in the vast ocean moving at different speeds across from the landmass. And yes, there is a sea floor in some areas, because the landmass also extends, some of the way, under the sea.

And if you dive far enough and long enough you will pop out in another bubble, in another world.

Some the people and gods from these other worlds, like Loki to name one, sometimes travel over!

This is just an example....your world can be anything. Not even a planet! Maybe on the back of a huge turtle...or in a huge turtle's coffee cup...or something.

[erictheredd]

one question with islands is how big you want to make them

some of the most populated countries in the world are on islands, and most of their population is one one or two gigantic islands. Size will indicate how closely you are tied to the ocean. Terrain is another factor. A relatively flat island can have people live paying little attention to the ocean. (unless its too flat) on a mountainous island most people will live VERY close to the ocean. (I lived on two islands, one 60 miles long and fairly flat, one 18 miles long and all mountain. I saw the ocean one or two times on the first. I saw the ocean daily on the other.

More questions:
are the currents, both air and water, predictable? this will mean some sides of an island are nicer than others.

How did civilization come to be? did some failed "eldritch" being who died a long time ago leave behind his creations. perhaps he is still alive, and ignoring the people, or regards them more as a weapon than children?

[Curious]

I would think the wind and water currents would be fairly unpredictable, what with all the warring elder gods and terrible magic racing through the atmosphere. I like the bubble idea as well, but I've never read any of the Fafhrd and Gray Mouser books.

[Temassasin]

I've always wanted to change the god teir names so i'll do it here,

Overdiety=Elder God:the first generation of gods who are the most Lovecraftian and looking at one can lead to insanity, they're nearly extinct and survivors are mostly sleeping. some still emerge from the chaos of the magical world

Intermediate=Proteathens: the first (non self destroying)creations of the Elder Gods and are almost as powerful because they were created when magic was still part of are reality, some pretend to be Elder Gods, will still scar most minds, like the Elder Gods some still emerge from the magical world

Minor=The Chaons: the Children of the Proteathens(the Elder Gods can't have children except those they [accidently] create by warping reality around them)

Quasi Deity=The Abominations: they like the Proteathens are accidental creations of the Elder Gods but since it was after Magic seperated itself from reality they're not nearly as powerfull,all mad and evil unlike the other gods who just have different ways of thinking

Demigods=The Warped: Humanoids who are either warped by being to near a Elder God for to long (whitch could be as much as a lifetime or as little as a few seconds) they are all mad like the Abominations but not all evil look sort of human

i'll write about the splitting of magic/reality later