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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    Man. I kind of want to go write some more tactical feats. They are fun.

    A sniper feat seems in order.
    Tac-feats are excellent, it's true. I've an idea or two for tac-feats myself.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]

    This is a tactical feat I've used for gunfighters in my games and while it's light hearted, i thought you might like it:

    Fancy Shootin' [Tactical]:
    You have learned, at the cost of a large number of bottles, to shoot in some rather odd ways.
    Prerequisites: BAB +4, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
    Decription: You gain the following abilities, all of which are Fear effects:
    Buzzing Insects [Strike]: As a Standard action, you may fire a shot at your target that doesn't hit but goes so close to their ear as to hurt and disorient them. Make a touch attack against the target; if it hits, the target must make a Fortitude save or be Deafened for 5 rounds and Stunned for one round. Deaf targets are immune to this trick.

    Dance Pardner [Strike]: As a Standard or Full action, you may fire several shots into the ground around the feet of a target within one range category. The target must make a Will save, DC 5 + BAB or move 5ft in a direction of your choice. If you are able to fire multiple shots via a special ability or high level, you gain a +2 bonus to the save DC per additional shot fired.

    Riccochets [Strike]: As a Standard or Full action, you can fire bullets at targets in cover to keep them there. Targets in a 10ft square must make a Will save, DC 5 + BAB or be unable to move or stand up if prone for one round. If you can make multiple attacks via a feat, ability or high BAB, each additional shot increases the DC by +2.

    Feel free to play with it and adjust the DCs and stuff more to your tastes. I have a lot more stuff but Mecha Victoriana [my campaign setting and specialist d20 variant] is tooled to deal semi realistically with Victorian guns so I doubt it would be useful to you.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]

    Eyes of the Sniper [Tactical]
    You gain abilities of stealth and movement that allow you kill your enemies most efficiently.
    Prerequisites: Far Shot, Hide 9 ranks, Spot 9 ranks, Base Attack Bonus +6; Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms) or Weapon Focus with a type of Bow or ranged weapon
    Benefits: You gain new maneuvers
    Keen Eyes: As a standard action, you may study your enemy. You may make a spot check, with a DC equal to your enemy’s Hit Dice. If you make the check, you deal an extra 1d6 per four hit dice you possess on all ranged attacks made against that opponent for the rest of the encounter (minimum 1d6). You also may ignore any cover besides full cover that that target has, and you may ignore any damage reduction they possess.

    Shot on the Run: As a full round action, you may move up to your base land speed and make a full attack action, with all attacks in the round made at a -2 penalty. You may make a Hide check while moving in this way even if you do not have cover, as if you had Hide-in-Plain-Sight ability, at no penalty.

    Camouflage: As a move action, you may camouflage yourself. As long as you do not move more than 5 feet per round, you gain a +5 bonus to all hide checks while camouflaged. If you make a ranged attack against an enemy, they take a -5 penalty to the spot check in order to locate you. If you do move, you lose these benefits, and can regain them as a move action.
    Last edited by unosarta; 2011-02-20 at 11:41 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]

    look nice
    If it can´t burn, don´t waste time on it






  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]

    You want an honest critique of your work? It's overpowered, end of story.

    2d12, x3 crit, 120 foot range? This is not balanced. Not in any way, shape, or form. I don't care if it takes two feats to do this reasonably, there is no good reason not to do so.

    This makes the guy using a sword look like an idiot for even contemplating doing anything other than pick up a firearm.

    And don't even bring up cost. Currency is not a viable balancing mechanic, not now, not ever.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]

    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeWorks View Post
    You want an honest critique of your work? It's overpowered, end of story.
    Ok, let's look at the issue then. If it IS overpowered, I'll fix it.

    2d12, x3 crit, 120 foot range? This is not balanced. Not in any way, shape, or form. I don't care if it takes two feats to do this reasonably, there is no good reason not to do so.
    Let's compare to the nearest extant weapon, the composite longbow. The comp longbow does 1d8+strength, crit x3, range 110 ft. So, the base damage is the only relevant difference (10 ft doesn't matter).

    2d12 has an average of 13 damage. It adds nothing to the dice, and has no method to do so.

    1d8 is average of 4.5, but adds Strength, a variable number. Let's go with +3 for the moment. That's 7.5 average.

    The bow is behind by 5.5. This is a big drop, that's true. The bow has better reload speed and a feat advantage however. At low levels (1-3), this is very relevant. Let us use a level 1 human fighter for the following comparison, yes?

    We have Bob, the composite bow user with Str 16 and Dex 16. He has three feats and is an archer, so he takes Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, and Precise Shot. He now can attack twice at +2 for 1d8+3, x3 each (more if he's in PBS range). His average damage (assuming he hits with both) is 15. This is reasonable and expected.

    If Bob was instead using a Bolt-Action Rifle, he would need Firearm Proficiency. He then has two feats. If he wants to use Rapid Shot, he also needs Rapid Reload, and needs Point Blank Shot. He can't actually get Rapid Shot at level 1. Let's say he takes Point Blank Shot and Rapid Reload. He has one attack a +4 that does 2d12, x3. That's an average of 13.

    This is a viable trade. He trades higher average damage and more attacks for a higher potential damage with less attacks.

    This makes the guy using a sword look like an idiot for even contemplating doing anything other than pick up a firearm.
    I still point at chargers as the "you're entirely wrong on this one, buddy" proof. Someone else can do this math, I don't feel like it. Ranged weapons are still far behind chargers, and this more so.

    And don't even bring up cost. Currency is not a viable balancing mechanic, not now, not ever.
    Didn't plan to.

    I do find that you are lacking a few things. Bows SCALE in damage, thanks to Strength and force multipliers. These guns don't. They have very swingy damage, bows are more average and reliable. This doesn't feel overpowered to me. Perhaps someone with a better grasp of the math than me can come along and use Bob to prove possible imbalance.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]

    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeWorks View Post
    You want an honest critique of your work? It's overpowered, end of story.

    2d12, x3 crit, 120 foot range? This is not balanced. Not in any way, shape, or form. I don't care if it takes two feats to do this reasonably, there is no good reason not to do so.

    This makes the guy using a sword look like an idiot for even contemplating doing anything other than pick up a firearm.

    And don't even bring up cost. Currency is not a viable balancing mechanic, not now, not ever.
    If we're going to compare it to melee, let's go with something that's fairly close to it, so a Greataxe user. Putting price aside, your typical 1st level Greataxe user is probably Half-Orc Barbarian with, let's say, 18 Strength and Power Attack. She has an attack bonus of +5 (+4 while Power Attacking) and does 1d12+6(+8 while Power Attacking). When raging and Power Attacking, she goes up to Str 22, attack bonus +6, 1d12+11.

    Now, let's look at a Human Fighter with a Bolt Action Rifle, EWP(Firearms), Rapid Reload(Bolt Action Rifle) and Point Blank Shot, with a Dex of 16. He has an attack bonus of +4 (+5 w/in 30') and does 2d12(+1 w/in 30').

    Now let's compare damage, shall we? At the top, our Barbarian is doing 12-23 damage a swing, averaging 17.5 damage. Our Fighter, assuming he's within 30', is doing 3-25, averaging 14 damage. Looks pretty well matched to me, not including actual optimization, like giving the Barbarian Whirling Frenzy and Sacred Lion Totem, which'll stomp the Fighter's damage down quite a bit. Plus, the Fighter still suffers from ranged weapon problems, like no Precise Shot for a -4 more often than not and no Rapid Shot for that extra hit while still suffering a flurry penalty. The only thing the Fighter has over the Barbarian in this bare bones example is the Fighter doesn't have to close with his target, which I wouldn't call broken by any definition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]

    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeWorks View Post
    2d12, x3 crit, 120 foot range? This is not balanced. Not in any way, shape, or form. I don't care if it takes two feats to do this reasonably, there is no good reason not to do so.

    This makes the guy using a sword look like an idiot for even contemplating doing anything other than pick up a firearm.
    From personal experience, this is actually incorrect; it has proven repeatedly in my games, which include weapons with identical stats for only one feat, that Power Attack with a two hander will outstrip these weapons with no difficulty.

    I took the stats from d20 modern for an Antimaterial Rifle and they don't actually get used all that often at all, despite being prefectly viable.

    Balenced? Dunno. Overpowered, not so much...

    Edit: Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!
    Last edited by Mulletmanalive; 2011-02-21 at 04:42 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Edit: Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!


    Could I sig the out of context edit for my personal amusement?
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2011-02-21 at 04:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]

    Of course you may. This makes two siggings...

    I find this worryingly fulfilling
    Mine is not so much a Peter Pan Complex as a Peter Pan Doom Fortress and Underground LairTM!
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: [3.5] Firearms [New Weapons]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Fancy Shootin' [Tactical]:
    You have learned, at the cost of a large number of bottles, to shoot in some rather odd ways.
    Prerequisites: BAB +4, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
    Decription: You gain the following abilities, all of which are Fear effects:
    Buzzing Insects [Strike]: As a Standard action, you may fire a shot at your target that doesn't hit but goes so close to their ear as to hurt and disorient them. Make a touch attack against the target; if it hits, the target must make a Fortitude save or be Deafened for 5 rounds and Stunned for one round. Deaf targets are immune to this trick.

    Dance Pardner [Strike]: As a Standard or Full action, you may fire several shots into the ground around the feet of a target within one range category. The target must make a Will save, DC 5 + BAB or move 5ft in a direction of your choice. If you are able to fire multiple shots via a special ability or high level, you gain a +2 bonus to the save DC per additional shot fired.

    Riccochets [Strike]: As a Standard or Full action, you can fire bullets at targets in cover to keep them there. Targets in a 10ft square must make a Will save, DC 5 + BAB or be unable to move or stand up if prone for one round. If you can make multiple attacks via a feat, ability or high BAB, each additional shot increases the DC by +2.
    I like it, but I dislike the Fear effects and the naming.

    I might fiddle about with it though.

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    Eyes of the Sniper [Tactical]
    You gain abilities of stealth and movement that allow you kill your enemies most efficiently.
    Prerequisites: Far Shot, Hide 9 ranks, Spot 9 ranks, Base Attack Bonus +6; Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms) or Weapon Focus with a type of Bow or ranged weapon
    Benefits: You gain new maneuvers
    Keen Eyes: As a standard action, you may study your enemy. You may make a spot check, with a DC equal to your enemy’s Hit Dice. If you make the check, you deal an extra 1d6 per four hit dice you possess on all ranged attacks made against that opponent for the rest of the encounter (minimum 1d6). You also may ignore any cover besides full cover that that target has, and you may ignore any damage reduction they possess.

    Shot on the Run: As a full round action, you may move up to your base land speed and make a full attack action, with all attacks in the round made at a -2 penalty. You may make a Hide check while moving in this way even if you do not have cover, as if you had Hide-in-Plain-Sight ability, at no penalty.

    Camouflage: As a move action, you may camouflage yourself. As long as you do not move more than 5 feet per round, you gain a +5 bonus to all hide checks while camouflaged. If you make a ranged attack against an enemy, they take a -5 penalty to the spot check in order to locate you. If you do move, you lose these benefits, and can regain them as a move action.
    That's preeeeetty good. Shot on the Run is very powerful. I like it too though. I'll add these feats to the first post.

    Also, I need to get back to Z-R work and stop working on my RL game for a little while. I'll get right on that.

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