[3.5] Lists of Necessary Magic Items

[Seerow]

Hmm, to be honest, I feel like damage reduction and its relatives aren't... necessary enough.

Do people disagree?

I tend to think that exactly what he describes is why stuff like miss chance and mobility are on the list. To completely shut those threats down.


Because here's the problem: You really have to work to get any serious amount of DR in D&D. Generally you're going to see somewhere between DR1 and DR5 on an item, there might be something out there that gives as high as 10 or 15. And none of it stacks. Ever. Explicitly. Even by lower mid levels (6-8) you are looking at bog standard enemies that deal 20-30 damage per hit. DR5 isn't going to make any sort of difference against that. DR15 would look pretty nice right around then, but by the time you could actually get that kind of DR you're looking at more like 50+ damage on a hit.

And these are standard non-modified encounters! If you are coming up against any sort of optimized chargers, or other optimized high damage builds, your best defense is not "Block a few points of damage from them" it's "Make sure they NEVER get an opportunity to hit you".


That said if there are items out there that do things like "For a hit that drops you below 0 hit points, get reduced to 1 hit point instead" or "Immediate action take a movement now" (or any other immediate action denial abilities) I would say they warrant a place on the list.

[DracoDei]

Yeah, DR is mostly only good for standing off hoards of ECL-3 enemies or something like that I should think.

[Jowgen]

I personally feel like damage reducers of any variety do loose the majority of their appeal at mid levels, but I do think that certain utility side-effects might warrant including at least some of them. Going to space to swim in a pool of acid and all that.

[eggynack]

I personally feel like damage reducers of any variety do loose the majority of their appeal at mid levels, but I do think that certain utility side-effects might warrant including at least some of them. Going to space to swim in a pool of acid and all that.

I don't think anyone contests the idea that these things are nifty, or occasionally useful. It just doesn't seem, y'know, necessary. Plenty of characters go their whole lives without DR, particularly because it's a surprisingly rare ability, and they do just fine, likely never shouting out with their dying breath, "If only I had DR." DR just doesn't fit the parameters of this list, filled with solutions to problems typically encountered, or perfect solutions to highly lethal problems occasionally encountered.

[aleucard]

Okay, so my last idea wasn't all that great. What about things that flat-out rearrange the landscape in tactical, strategic, and both flavors? Stuff like Lyre of Building or that one alchemical acid that goes through stone like toilet paper. Sure, a charger or certain initiators may be able to do the second one to some effectiveness, but that's not going to be available all the time, and it's going to be pretty noisy nonetheless. Fabricate may apply if you use it like a spell version of the Lyre (and more versatile to boot), but I can't really think of ways to change the map by way of item that's useful.

[DracoDei]

Do caltrops, marbles, and lamp-oil poured on the floor count? Probably not what you were talking about.

Feather Token (Tree) on the other hand probably qualifies.

[eggynack]

Do caltrops, marbles, and lamp-oil poured on the floor count? Probably not what you were talking about.

Feather Token (Tree) on the other hand probably qualifies.

That's really more of a Shax's Indispensable Haversack thing, I think.

[aleucard]

Do caltrops, marbles, and lamp-oil poured on the floor count? Probably not what you were talking about.

Feather Token (Tree) on the other hand probably qualifies.

For the first group, maybe levels 1-2. Past that, they can be largely ignored with the exception of marbles for a sneak-attacker, and even then it can be situational.

The tree (and for the matter, Swan Boat) tokens would count, though. Kinda hard to get around a solid oak tree or a fairly large boat without physically moving yourself or the obstruction, and that takes actions the other party might not be able to take without drawbacks.

[Ernir]

Hmm, I actually do like the idea of a BFC list.

Mostly, I'm concerned about the item-based solutions to it not being all that good. BFC is usually the realm of class features - or maybe that's just how I've been playing.

I will take a look.

[aleucard]

Here's another idea that, while not exactly necessary all the time, is very bloody useful all the time also. Namely, the 'swiss army knife' items. Things like Shapesand that can be used for multiple disparate purposes, in general utility and combat in some cases. If you're wondering about how Shapesand could be useful mid-fight despite the ability to take control of it with a Wis check, read this post by yours truly (in short, you can use it to make a 2-1/2" by 5' by 10' slab basically in an instant, which is enough to serve as an effective door plug if nothing else, not to mention the various tools that it allows free use of). I'm actually not that sure about how many things could qualify for this, though Adamantine equipment may qualify even if it doesn't need to be enchanted to work most of the time (a lockpick even Og the Destroyer can make sense of and use!)

[ObnoxiousKender]

This is good.

[Temennigru]

In my games, I usually let people get away with accessing any small item they have on their sheets as an AoO-free move action once they have gotten one of these - because that's approximately what it does.

You don't have to. That's EXACTLY what it does.

When the wearer reaches into it for a specific item, that item is always on top

It also carries 120 pounds, which is enough for most equipment.