Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default [3.5] Fighter Variant: the Spartan

    I wanted to include a more thematically appropriate & specialized Fighter variant for one of my games. I didn't want to make it any more powerful per se, but I did want to give it some added perks and have some good synergy with its abilities. Say, Tier 4, maybe approaching Tier 3.

    This is like the Fighting Style variants for Monks, narrowing the choices the Fighter can take (lost Armor & Shield Proficiencies, effectively cut their Weapon Selection significantly) in exchange for added benefits. However, I've extended this for virtually the whole progression, and do not mandate that every choice must be taken.

    The only rule is that if you do not meet the prerequisite when you reach the appropriate level of Fighter, you cannot gain that benefit later, even if you eventually meet the requirements.

    I thought I'd run it by people here, maybe get some opinions on problems & tweaks.

    Fighter Variant: The Spartan (Previous versions in the Spoiler, for my own reference)
    Insert some flavor text here.
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 1st
    Replaces: You lose proficiency with Heavy Armor, Bucklers, Tower Shields, and your Bonus Feat at 1st Level.
    Benefit: You gain Improved Shield Bash, Shield Specialization (light shields), and Shield Specialization (heavy shields) as Bonus Feats.
    At first level, you gain the Spartan subtype if you have no levels in a Class that doesn't grant the Spartan subtype, and you lose the Spartan subtype if you take levels in a Class that doesn't grant the Spartan subtype.
    Spartan may be selected for a favored enemy, the bane weapon property, or any other ability that can only target a specific type or subtype of creature.

    Improved Shield Fighter
    Requirements:
    Agile Shield Fighter, Spartan subtype.
    Level: Fighter 5.
    Benefit: With a Standard Action (but not as part of a Charge), you may attack with both an armed strike and a shield bash. The -2 penalty still applies.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.
    Spartan Maneuvers [Ex]: Starting at 11th level, if you hit an opponent with both an armed strike & a shield bash during your turn, you may immediately make a single free Disarm, Trip, or Sunder attack with one weapon. This does not generate any Attacks of Opportunity.
    At 17th level, you may instead make a single free Disarm, Trip, or Sunder attack with each weapon.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.

    Improved Phalanx Fighting
    Requirements:
    Phalanx Fighting, Spartan subtype.
    Level: Fighter 7.
    Benefit: You may gain the benefits of the Phalanx Fighting Feat while wielding any Weapon-and-Shield combination associated with the Spartan (Short Sword, Short Spear, Light Shield, Heavy Shield, and Javelin), instead of just Light Weapons with Heavy Shields.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.
    Spartan Wall [Ex]: Starting at level 13, when you are part of a shield wall, you and adjacent allies gain Evasion. At level 19, this instead grants Improved Evasion.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.

    Spartan Weaponry
    Requirements:
    Weapon Specialization, Spartan subtype.
    Level: Fighter 11.
    Benefit: Any Weapon-Specific Feat you possess that applies to a Weapon associated with the Spartan (Short Sword, Shortspear, Light Shield, Heavy Shield, and Javelin) is considered to have been selected for all Weapons associated with the Spartan, as long as it could qualify for the Feat. For example, Weapon Specialization would apply to all Weapons, but Melee Weapon Mastery (piercing) would not apply to your Shield Bash or Javelins.
    Starting at level 17, you may apply the feats even if it couldn't normally qualify for the Feat. For example, Melee Weapon Mastery (piercing) can be applied to your Shield Bash or Javelins.

    Improved Lunging Strike
    Requirements:
    Lunging Strike, Spartan subtype.
    Level: Fighter 13.
    Benefit: When using a Full-Round action to make a Lunging Strike with a Shortspear, you may make a second attack at a -5 penalty, and keep this additional Reach until the beginning of your next turn. You still threaten adjacent squares.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.
    Spartan Grip [Ex]: Starting at level 19, you now treat the Shortspear as a Reach Weapon that still threatens adjacent foes. It can still be used with Lunging Strike.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.

    Shield of the Gods
    Requirements:
    Armor of God, Spartan subtype.
    Level: Fighter 17.
    Benefit: When using Armor of God, you and adjacent allies gain a bonus to Reflex saves equal to one-half the bonus granted to your AC.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, when carrying a Heavy Load, or when not using a Shield.

    Heart of Sparta
    Requirements:
    Spartan subtype.
    Level: Fighter 19.
    Benefit: Drawing on the strength of your brethren, you gain several abilities. You may not use these benefits if you or any adjacent Spartan allies wear Heavy Armor, carry a Heavy Load, or are wielding weapons not associated with the Spartan (Short Sword, Shortspear, Light Shield, Heavy Shield, and Javelin).
    Spartan Tactics: An opponent that makes a melee attack against you during their turn grants any adjacent allies with the Spartan subtype an attack of opportunity at the end of your opponent's turn.
    Spartan Warcry: Once per encounter as a full-round action, you may make a special Intimidate check against all opponents within 30 ft. You get a +1 morale bonus for each adjacent ally that also has the Spartan subtype.
    Opponents that fail their checks are shaken for the duration of the encounter. You cannot use this ability to worsen an opponent's fear condition beyond frightened.
    Spartan Strike: Once per encounter as an immediate action, you may make any one attack a Spartan Strike. If it hits, this attack deals double damage for each adjacent ally with the Spartan subtype. For instance, if you have an ally on either side of you with the Spartan subtype, a Spartan Strike would deal x3 damage.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Recent Changes:

    Fighter Variant: The Spartan (Previous versions in the Spoiler, for my own reference)
    Insert some flavor text here.
    Class: Fighter
    Level: 1st
    Replaces: You lose proficiency with Heavy Armor, Bucklers, Tower Shields, and your Bonus Feat at 1st Level.
    Benefit: You gain Improved Shield Bash, Shield Specialization (light shields), and Shield Specialization (heavy shields) as Bonus Feats.
    At first level, you gain the Spartan subtype. Spartan may be selected for a favored enemy, the bane weapon property, or any other ability that can only target a specific type or subtype of creature.

    Heart of Sparta
    Requirements:
    Agile Shield Fighter, Armor of God, Lunging Strike, Phalanx Fighting, Weapon Specialization, Spartan subtype.

    Previous Changes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Level 1: Lose Heavy Armor Proficiency, Tower Shield Proficiency, Fighter Bonus Feat at 1st level
    Benefit: Gain Improved Shield Bash, Shield Specialization (light and heavy shields), Shield Ward
    Spoiler
    Show
    Original Ability
    Level 1: Lose Heavy Armor Proficiency, Tower Shield Proficiency, Fighter Bonus Feat at 1st level
    Benefit: Gain Improved Shield Bash, Shield Specialization (light and heavy shields)


    Level 5 Prerequisite: Agile Shield Fighter
    Level 5 Benefit: With a Standard Action (but not as part of a Charge), you may attack with both an armed strike and a shield bash. You may apply your full Strength bonus to damage rolls with the shield bash.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.
    Level 11 Benefit: If you hit an opponent with both an armed strike & a shield bash during your turn, you may immediately make a single free Disarm, Trip, or Sunder attack with one weapon this round. This does not generate any Attacks of Opportunity.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.
    Level 17 Benefit: If you hit an opponent with both an armed strike & a shield bash during your turn, you may make a single free Disarm, Trip, or Sunder attack with each weapon this round. These do not generate any Attacks of Opportunity.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Original Ability
    Level 5 Prerequisite: Agile Shield Fighter
    Level 5 Benefit: With a Standard Action (but not as part of a Charge), you may attack with both an armed strike and a shield bash, with an additional -2 penalty (this stacks with the -2 penalty applied by the Agile Shield Fighter Feat).
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.
    Level 11 Benefit: If you hit an opponent with both an armed strike & a shield bash in the same round, you may make a free Disarm, Trip, or Sunder attack with each weapon. These checks are made with a +2 bonus, and do not generate any Attacks of Opportunity.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.


    Level 7 Prerequisite: Phalanx Fighting
    Level 7 Benefit: You may gain the benefits of the Phalanx Fighting Feat while wielding any Weapon-and-Shield combination associated with the Spartan (Short Sword, Short Spear, Light Shield, Heavy Shield, and Javelin), instead of just Light Weapons with Heavy Shields.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.
    Level 13 Benefit: When you are part of a shield wall, you and adjacent allies gain Evasion.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.
    Level 19 Benefit: When you are part of a shield wall, you and adjacent allies gain Improved Evasion.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Original Ability
    Level 7 Prerequisite: Phalanx Fighting
    Level 7 Benefit: You may gain the benefits of the Phalanx Fighting Feat while wielding any Weapon-and-Shield combination associated with the Spartan (Short Sword, Short Spear, Light Shield, Heavy Shield, and Javelin), instead of just Light Weapons with Heavy Shields.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.
    Level 13 Benefit: When you are part of a shield wall, you and adjacent allies gain Evasion.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.


    Level 11 Prerequisite: Weapon Specialization
    Level 11 Benefit: Any Weapon-Specific Feat you possess that applies to a Weapon associated with the Spartan (Short Sword, Shortspear, Light Shield, Heavy Shield, and Javelin) is considered to have been selected for ALL Weapons associated with the Spartan, as long as it could qualify for the Feat. For example, Weapon Specialization would apply to all Weapons, but Melee Weapon Mastery (piercing) would not apply to your Shield Bash or Javelins.
    Level 17 Benefit: Any Weapon-Specific Feat you possess that applies to a Weapon associated with the Spartan (Short Sword, Shortspear, Light Shield, Heavy Shield, and Javelin) is considered to have been selected for all Weapons associated with the Spartan, even if it couldn't normally qualify for the Feat. For example, Melee Weapon Mastery (piercing) can be applied to your Shield Bash or Javelins.

    Level 13 Prerequisite: Lunging Strike
    Level 13 Benefit: When using a Full-Round action to make a Lunging Strike with a Shortspear, you may make a second attack at a -5 penalty, and keep this additional Reach until the beginning of your next turn. You still threaten adjacent squares.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.
    Level 19 Benefit: You now treat the Shortspear as a Reach Weapon that still threatens adjacent foes. It can still be used with Lunging Strike.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, or when carrying a Heavy Load.

    Level 17 Prerequisite: Armor of God
    Level 17 Benefit: When using Armor of God, you and adjacent allies gain a bonus to Reflex saves equal to one-half the bonus granted to your AC.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, when carrying a Heavy Load, or when not using a Shield.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Original Ability
    Level 17 Prerequisite: Armor of God
    Level 17 Benefit: When using Armor of God, you and adjacent allies gain a bonus to Reflex saves equal to one-half the bonus granted to your AC.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, when carrying a Heavy Load, or when not using a Shield.
    Level 19 Benefit: When using Armor of God, you and adjacent allies gain Evasion. If all of you already have Evasion from another source, you and adjacent allies gain Improved Evasion.
    You lose this benefit in Heavy Armor, when carrying a Heavy Load, or when not using a Shield.


    Level 19 Prerequisite: Agile Shield Fighter, Armor of God, Lunging Strike, Phalanx Fighting, Weapon Specialization
    Level 19 Benefit: You gain the Spartan Ability.
    Spartan [Ex]: Spartan grants several benefits. You are not considered to have the Spartan ability if you are wearing Heavy Armor, carrying a Heavy Load, or wielding a Weapon that is not associated with the Spartan (Short Sword, Shortspear, Light Shield, Heavy Shield, and Javelin).
    Spartan Tactics: An opponent that makes a melee attack against you during their turn grants any adjacent allies with the Spartan ability an attack of opportunity at the end of their turn.
    Spartan Warcry: Once per encounter as a full-round action, you may make a special Intimidate check against all opponents within 30 ft. You get a +1 morale bonus for each adjacent ally that also has the Spartan ability.
    Opponents that fail their checks are shaken for the duration of the encounter. You cannot use this ability to worsen an opponent's fear condition beyond frightened.
    Spartan Strike: As an immediate action, you may make any one attack a Spartan Strike. This attack deals double damage for each adjacent ally with the Spartan ability. For instance, if you have an ally on either side of you with the Spartan ability, a Spartan Strike would deal x3 damage.
    Last edited by Adamantrue; 2011-08-23 at 06:12 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2008

    Default Re: [3.5] Fighter Variant: the Spartan

    I'd say this keeps fighter firmly tier 5. He gains a few mediocre to okay abilities in exchange for having to follow the feat path of the least optimal fighting style in the game, and losing plate proficiency to boot. You do give two great abilities though...

    Agile Shield Fighter level 11 benefit is outstanding for a battlefield control build.

    The Lunging Strike level 19 benefit (reach, and double reach with Lunging, and even MOAR reach if Enlarged) is pretty solid in the right build (although it does not combo with the BCF of the Agile Shield Fighter trick).

    If starting at level one though, that's a long wait for those bonuses.

    Some abilities you might consider adding in to make this a bit closer to tier 3:

    - Full strength to damage with Shield Bash attacks.
    - 2-for-1 power attack trade with Shield Bash (or with Spartan weapons in general), even while TWF with them.
    - Supreme Cleave (the ability to move 5' between cleaves) at higher level (requiring you to take Great Cleave normally of course)

    Abilities you could change to make this closer to Tier 3...

    - No penalty for the 5th level Agile Shield Fighter bonus attacks (they get the normal -2 penalty for TWF, but don't take the additional -2 for move and attacking). Melee should get nice things. It's basically sorta pounce if they are Swoard and Board fighting.
    - Have Shield Ward also granted at level one, so the Spartan gets his Shield AC modifier to more stuff.
    - Have the Armor of God thing also grant Mettle (even though it lowers base Will)
    My first homebrew base class: [3.5] The Planeswalker
    And my Second: [4E] The Death Knight (WIP)


    Quote Originally Posted by streakster View Post

    EDIT: Seriously. These encounters are like matching cats v. mice. Me vs. a plate full of puff pastry. Chuck Norris v. anything at all, ever.

    EDIT2: O-Chul v Shark. Snuggles v. that pansy Good Cat. Pun-Pun, full stop.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    El_Pablo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Fighter Variant: the Spartan

    Have you reviewed the Pathfinder APG variant phalanx soldier and shielded fighter? Link. The variant abilities in Pathfinder always replace the additional abilities that Pathfinder added to the classes, so adding this to a regular 3.5 game would definitely boost its power level. If you wanted to balance such a thing out... I suggest removing the spartan from accessing feats which have a fighter level requirement (i.e. spartan specialization makes a character ineligible for other types of fighter specialization) and/or bonus feat progression to every three levels from 1st (so 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th....) and incorporating the abilities in "dead" levels. I think my favorite additions are the ability to wield any spear or polearm in one hand, and the ability to spend an immediate action to brace for a charge.

    As far as already mentioned options,
    -The fifth level benefit is poorly designed. Any shield fighter is taking his standard attacks as a primary with a bashing spiked heavy shield for 2d6 + full Str damage. Using this dual strike rule adds the character's one-handed primary weapon which does less dice damage, and makes the shield do 1/2 str damage.
    - I don't like 2-4-1 power attack while two weapon fighting. Again, a fighter with a heavy shield already gets power attack to damage. Perhaps, you should make an ability that allows shield bashes to get full strength to damage during TWF?
    - Phalanx fighting rules seem really cool.
    - I don't know about the free disarm check with a shield bash. I like trip, and I really like the idea of a bull rush which could be incorporated with the shield slam feat from CW but for regular shield bashes (Pathfinder actually already has this). If you combined something like that with the above listed ability to wield a reach weapon in one hand, you could start an attack with a shield bash bullrush, and, then, finish all your attacks with your reach weapon. Taking a 51 step back after that would deny your opponent both a charge and a full attack action. Just a thought.

    All I can think of for now. Good luck.
    Last edited by El_Pablo; 2011-02-26 at 06:24 AM.
    Thank you to THE_STONEY_ONE for the custom avatar.

    New favorite post:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
    Fluff for the Fluff God. Write ups for the Written Throne!


    PbP characters:

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fighter Variant: the Spartan

    I was under the impression that you get full Power Attack damage with a Shortspear and Heavy Shield (the "encouraged" weapon choices), since they are both 1-handed. This isn't the case? I'd have to include this if it isn't.

    Having full Strength to damage seems more important than I ever made it. I never thought it was much of a big deal (whats it come out to...+4 at best, usually). If needed, I could easily incorporate it into the 5th level ability if it would improve people's perception.

    I actually didn't want to include the additional -2 penalty with the Dual Strike-like ability, but I figured it would offset the 11th level disarm/sunder/trip ability. Maybe I took the wrong approach.

    What if instead, I removed the added -2 penalty, but you also didn't get the +2 bonus to checks?

    For that matter, I'm considering changing that ability so that at 11th, a hit with both weapons lets you make 1 trip/disarm/sunder, and at level 17, you can make an attempt with each weapon. Just to make it a smoother curve.

    You know, maybe I could do the same thing to include Mettle? Instead of using Armor of God, I could use Phalanx Fighting, and grant the bonus at 19th.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    El_Pablo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Fighter Variant: the Spartan

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantrue View Post
    I was under the impression that you get full Power Attack damage with a Shortspear and Heavy Shield (the "encouraged" weapon choices), since they are both 1-handed. This isn't the case? I'd have to include this if it isn't.
    You are correct, the rules do already work that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantrue View Post
    Having full Strength to damage seems more important than I ever made it. I never thought it was much of a big deal (whats it come out to...+4 at best, usually). If needed, I could easily incorporate it into the 5th level ability if it would improve people's perception.
    Again you are correct. However, people will be likely using this build not to use a single shield bash, but with the full two weapon fighting tree. So, the extra damage over three attacks can add 12 damage a round. This is the equivalent of rolling max damage on an extra shield bash attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantrue View Post
    I actually didn't want to include the additional -2 penalty with the Dual Strike-like ability, but I figured it would offset the 11th level disarm/sunder/trip ability. Maybe I took the wrong approach.

    What if instead, I removed the added -2 penalty, but you also didn't get the +2 bonus to checks?
    Doesn't really make a difference I think. Really, my point is you should focus on making the more damaging attack (the shield bash) more devastating. This ability is the equivalent of telling a greatsword fighter that during a standard action they can also make a kick, but if they do they take a -4 to their greatsword attack and it is no longer 1.5 str damage. How many greatsword fighters would suddenly start kicking, and who is going to take a -4 and then power attack? The numbers aren't exactly the same, but you are not significantly benefiting from the ability. You could just do a simple move and say that during a standard action, you can treat the shield bash as if it were a two handed weapon attack for the purposes of strength to damage and power attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantrue View Post
    For that matter, I'm considering changing that ability so that at 11th, a hit with both weapons lets you make 1 trip/disarm/sunder, and at level 17, you can make an attempt with each weapon. Just to make it a smoother curve.
    Cool, but ridiculous. With feats like improved trip, and that tactical feat that gives you sundering cleave, your spartan is taking five minutes to resolve one round of two weapon fighting with a possible trip/sunder every attack with a possible free attack afterward. i.e. - 1st attack hits, roll opposed trip, succeed, roll imp. trip free attack, that hits, so sunder attempt (2 rolls), now roll 1st shield bash, hits, roll sunder (2 rolls), successful sunder, roll sundering cleave, hits, roll new sunder (shield, 2 rolls), roll 2nd spear attack, hit, free sunder (2 rolls), sunder success so roll free attack... now, if those rolls don't succeed you are rolling even more. Don't forget, if your spartan fails his trip attempt, the opponent can still trip back! This means you can be dropped prone after your 1st attack if you fail your check! I am just suggesting that some more thought needs to go into the whole project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamantrue View Post
    You know, maybe I could do the same thing to include Mettle? Instead of using Armor of God, I could use Phalanx Fighting, and grant the bonus at 19th.
    I think mettle might be a good addition, but i don't think the class should have both evasion and mettle. I would think evasion makes more sense for a shielded spartan.
    Thank you to THE_STONEY_ONE for the custom avatar.

    New favorite post:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
    Fluff for the Fluff God. Write ups for the Written Throne!


    PbP characters:

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fighter Variant: the Spartan

    Again you are correct. However, people will be likely using this build not to use a single shield bash, but with the full two weapon fighting tree. So, the extra damage over three attacks can add 12 damage a round. This is the equivalent of rolling max damage on an extra shield bash attack.
    I wasn't trying to support the TWF Tree, just granting the single Agile Shield Fighter feat (is there a way they interact I need to be aware of?). But if I allowed/created "Improved Agile Shield Fighter" and "Greater Agile Shield Fighter" feats, I'm not sure the extra damage would matter that much. If they are landing hits with both their -5 and -10 attacks (especially with Power Attack as an option), I think their opponent is doing something wrong.
    Doesn't really make a difference I think. Really, my point is you should focus on making the more damaging attack (the shield bash) more devastating. This ability is the equivalent of telling a greatsword fighter that during a standard action they can also make a kick, but if they do they take a -4 to their greatsword attack and it is no longer 1.5 str damage. How many greatsword fighters would suddenly start kicking, and who is going to take a -4 and then power attack? The numbers aren't exactly the same, but you are not significantly benefiting from the ability. You could just do a simple move and say that during a standard action, you can treat the shield bash as if it were a two handed weapon attack for the purposes of strength to damage and power attack.
    That isn't exactly a fair analogy, but I can sorta see where you are coming from. I really don't want to give too many perks, though.

    OK, the added -2 penalty is out, as is the +2 bonus on checks. And you get full Str to Shield Bash. But any more than that I think is giving too much away for free.
    Cool, but ridiculous. With feats like improved trip, and that tactical feat that gives you sundering cleave, your spartan is taking five minutes to resolve one round of two weapon fighting with a possible trip/sunder every attack with a possible free attack afterward. i.e. - 1st attack hits, roll opposed trip, succeed, roll imp. trip free attack, that hits, so sunder attempt (2 rolls), now roll 1st shield bash, hits, roll sunder (2 rolls), successful sunder, roll sundering cleave, hits, roll new sunder (shield, 2 rolls), roll 2nd spear attack, hit, free sunder (2 rolls), sunder success so roll free attack... now, if those rolls don't succeed you are rolling even more. Don't forget, if your spartan fails his trip attempt, the opponent can still trip back! This means you can be dropped prone after your 1st attack if you fail your check! I am just suggesting that some more thought needs to go into the whole project.
    OK, just to follow. Improved Trip conceivably doubles the number attacks made in a round. Sundering Cleave conceivably doubles again the number of attacks in a round. At 11th level, I allow 1 extra attack if both weapons hit, and at level 17 I allow an additional 1 extra attack (for a total of 2) if both weapons hit.

    I don't think the extra 1 or 2 attacks I'm allowing under conditional (though admittedly reliable) circumstances is the problem. Though from your description, there may be a wording problem with what I wrote, making it sound like I'm allowing more than 1 or 2 extra attacks.
    I think mettle might be a good addition, but i don't think the class should have both evasion and mettle. I would think evasion makes more sense for a shielded spartan.
    In retrospect...I think I agree.

    [edit] I've made some changes in the first post, including adding a new 19th level ability. Did this fix the problems?
    Last edited by Adamantrue; 2011-02-27 at 04:35 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    El_Pablo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Fighter Variant: the Spartan

    I think the new changes that you implemented fix all the issues I initially saw with design.

    Concerning TWF, agile shiled fighter just makes TWF have the same negatives for both a one-hand and light-hand as a one-hand and a shield. So, yes, people with shield bast go as far up TWF as they can. It's like getting to TWF with a greatsword in your offhand with the lowest penalty.
    Thank you to THE_STONEY_ONE for the custom avatar.

    New favorite post:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Innis Cabal View Post
    Fluff for the Fluff God. Write ups for the Written Throne!


    PbP characters:

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fighter Variant: the Spartan

    I did some playtesting at 1st, 3rd, and 6th levels last night & this morning, against a Fighter, Monk, and Barbarian.

    I think I'm going to take Shield Ward back out of the 1st level bonuses. It severely hampered a few too many valid combat options the opposition had at early levels. With the option of taking a Flaw available to pick it up, or to just slow the progression by just 1 level, I think its alright.

    On the other hand, the full Strength to damage may well be needed. The Barbarian/Fighter matches were surprisingly even, with the combination of Shield bonus to AC, Rage, Agile Shield Fighting penalties, and Power Attack on both sides kinda canceling each other out.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fighter Variant: the Spartan

    Additional tweaks & updates, due to playtests. I took the full Str to Shield Bash back out of the equation, due to the effect it has at higher levels with multiple attacks combined with free Trips or Sunders (never really explored the Disarms).

    It isn't a big loss at lower levels, though it does need a bit of adjustment with the way you build (basically, go Captain America for a few levels, which does seem right for a Spartan).

    I'm liking the way this is turning out, but I'm having trouble with the "Spartan subtype" when it comes to the Heart of Sparta abilities. Allies that take a single level gain the Shield Feats (not bad for certain builds, such as Knights or Shield Bashing Barbarians) without any real loss or trade-off (admittedly without any significant gain either).

    However, that single splashed level triggers the Heart of Sparta bonuses. I'm not sure if that should be a good thing or not, nor do I know how to handle it differently if it is a problem.

    People have any thoughts on the matter?

    [edit for easy reference]
    At first level, you gain the Spartan subtype. Spartan may be selected for a favored enemy, the bane weapon property, or any other ability that can only target a specific type or subtype of creature.

    [snip]

    Heart of Sparta
    Requirements:
    Agile Shield Fighter, Armor of God, Lunging Strike, Phalanx Fighting, Weapon Specialization, Spartan subtype.
    Level: Fighter 19.
    Benefit: Drawing on the strength of your brethren, you gain several abilities. You may not use these benefits if you or any adjacent Spartan allies wear Heavy Armor, carry a Heavy Load, or are wielding weapons not associated with the Spartan (Short Sword, Shortspear, Light Shield, Heavy Shield, and Javelin).
    Spartan Tactics: An opponent that makes a melee attack against you during their turn grants any adjacent allies with the Spartan subtype an attack of opportunity at the end of your opponent's turn.
    Spartan Warcry: Once per encounter as a full-round action, you may make a special Intimidate check against all opponents within 30 ft. You get a +1 morale bonus for each adjacent ally that also has the Spartan subtype.
    Opponents that fail their checks are shaken for the duration of the encounter. You cannot use this ability to worsen an opponent's fear condition beyond frightened.
    Spartan Strike: Once per encounter as an immediate action, you may make any one attack a Spartan Strike. If it hits, this attack deals double damage for each adjacent ally with the Spartan subtype. For instance, if you have an ally on either side of you with the Spartan subtype, a Spartan Strike would deal x3 damage.
    Last edited by Adamantrue; 2011-03-04 at 09:29 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    Default Re: [3.5] Fighter Variant: the Spartan

    Bit of a bump here...

    There were 2 final tweaks I felt was needed. The first was to make having the Spartan subtype more restrictive, to avoid what I felt was a cheat. The second was to relax the prerequisites of Heart of Sparta, to allow more flexibility and differentiation between Spartan characters without sacrificing the capstone ability.

    After the final set of tweaks, I'm pleased with the results, and how it fared in playtests. The Spartan performs pretty well in 1-on-1.

    In even the smallest groups, though, Spartans can be awesome. I was pleasantly surprised by how well they perform with non-Spartan allies, but groups of Spartans can be real powerhouses. Lots of fun.

    There were admittedly a few other minor goodies I added into the mix.

    The first was that I used an optional rule to reduce the cost of Magic Items. Specifically, I allowed the Armor & Shield to only be usable by beings with the Spartan Subtype, which reduces the cost to 70%. I figured that since Spartan can be used for Bane Weapons & the like, there isn't any real reason it can't also be used as a perk beyond the Class Abilities.

    The second was including a Ring of Mettle (referred to as Precious Mettle), which was based on a Ring of Evasion, and has the same price.

    I'll eventually get around to posting the final 20th level example. I thought I'd try getting a final set of opinions on this.
    Last edited by Adamantrue; 2011-03-25 at 03:09 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •