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Thread: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
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2011-03-02, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
Not that I know of. I thought the best bet would be to try using the Generic Classes from the SRD, but even there you're rebuffed since it requires arcane casters to cast from int or cha, while divine casters cast from wis.
You can get psionics to cast from wis rather trivially, (psy war, ardent) and you can get divine casters to cast off of int (archivist), but I don't think the arcane spells from wis route is possible.
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
There is a 3rd party feat "lost tradition" that let's you change your casting stat to any other stat. It is found in Bastards & Bloodlines IIRC.
Also the Dark hunter (web check the current IC ) is a wis based arcane spellcaster.
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
As stated, without 3rd-party or homebrew you are stuck. WotC's design philosophy has been "Wis = Divine." (Though not necessarily Divine = Wis.)
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
Why not go with int based divine caster instead?
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2011-03-02, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
The Divine Bard from UA is a wisdom based arcane caster
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
As well as the Unseelie Dark Hunter linked above, there is a third party feat that will key your casting off any ability. It's called Lost Tradition, is 1st level only, and will key your casting for one class off any stat (even the physical ones). So if third party material is allowed, you could take this feat to key your Wizard, Sorcerer or any other casting off WIS. The feat appears in the book Bastards & Bloodlines.
If you're looking to make a theurge based primarily off one stat, there are other options. A Favored Soul/Sorcerer is primarily CHA based - the only thing that runs off WIS is your FS DCs. If you stick to buffs and other spells with no DC on the FS side, you're golden.
You could also try a Wizard/Archivist, based mainly off INT. The only thing running off WIS would be your Archivist bonus spells...
Their maximum spells level is based off WIS, but DC and bonus spells is still based off CHA.Last edited by Thurbane; 2011-03-02 at 08:38 PM.
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2011-03-02, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
You can do it very easily with the Geomancer prestige class, but since you're looking for something dual-progression you'll need something with fast progression to make up for 11 lost levels on your divine side...
I don't think it's actually possible for dual 9s this way barring Assume Supernatural Ability entry into Beholder Mage.Last edited by FMArthur; 2011-03-02 at 08:38 PM.
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
Actually, thinking about it, a Favored Soul/Sorcerer might be a good mystic theurge. With Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten spell (or similar), you could jump into Mystic Theurge at 4th level: FS 2/Sorc 1/MT X. You'd need to find a way to get Knowledge (religion) as a class skill, but that's fairly easy.
So, FS 2/Sorc 1/MT 10/Legacy Champion 6/FS 1 would get you 18th level FS casting and 16th level Sorc casting. Not too bad.My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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2011-03-02, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
Nope, the Divine Bard casts divine spells.
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
16 Wisdom isn't terribly hard to get by 14th level, but it does require resources that could be put elsewhere. Personally, I always felt that the duel casting stat felt like an unnecessary gimp for most classes that have it, especially for classes that also require physical stats to work well.
Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2011-03-02 at 10:53 PM.
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
I think casters are powerful enough that making them all need two casting stats like that (DAD?) wouldn't be a major issue. The only thing you need to be sure is that one stat covers both bonus spells and save DCs (call this one the "pump stat") and the other covers highest-level spells known. (The "bar stat.")
Last edited by Psyren; 2011-03-02 at 11:54 PM.
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
The last time I played a bard - I had a WIS score of 8. This was point buy so I didn't spend a single point on it because every other stat was far more important than WIS. I could have attained 16 WIS if I wanted to, but I would have considered it to be wasteful - like a wizard maxxing out STR.
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
This and will saves is exactly why it's stronger than an int or cha based arcane caster. Ya you should homebrew it, but make sure it has some drawback to compensate. Maybe... spells per day = sorcerer spells known plus bonus spells. Each only cast-able 1/day unless you pick duplicates. So you cast like a wizard but without being able to swap spells in the morning and so on. Worst of both worlds. And yet tolerable on a theurge type.
Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-03-02 at 11:58 PM.
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
Or take the feat, and let your Dm eventually notice your spell DC's are awfully high considering your Int score.
That or take flaws if allowed.
But yeah they didn't want Arcane and Divine people to become Theurges that cause death upon there foes at level 10.
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
I remember asking for something similar a long while back. What I wound up with was The Demented One creating the Thaumaturge.
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
If he wants Turning from Cleric, he probably wants higher than 8 CHA...
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
I respectfully disagree. You are one or two spell levels down. Wis might help more things than Cha but less than Int. Will saves do not really matter, as you are at least triple classed in high Will save classes, you will make those saves anyway. In my opinion a Wis-based wizard, say, would be weaker than an Int-based, even in a theurge build. I would allow it without compensation.
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
I'd rather eliminate the "bar stat" altogether since all it does is arbitrarily disclude low-stat characters (like NPCs) from being what they really need to be. I like the idea of splitting save DCs and bonus spells - quantity vs quality. Extra spells lets you be more versatile and have better staying power, while save DCs influence how powerful the spells you cast are... ostensibly (if only so much of that wasn't part of caster level and not save DCs).
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
You could always dip into (cloistered) cleric for Turn Undead.
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
Mystic Theurge (if that is your intended target) is a horrible, insidious trap. To quote Eldariel (in his guide to being batman), "Play a Wiz 3/Cleric 3/MT 1 in the same party as a Cleric 7 and a Wizard 7. Then cry." Straight wizard or straight cleric is better, and both of those are SAD classes.
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2011-03-03, 11:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
Early entry makes it a very good deal actually. A 1 level dip in Divine class X followed by MT 10 to gain 11 levels in another full-casting class is pretty awesome if you ask me. If you're looking for something that is strictly, 100% stronger in every way (spoiled by Incantatrices?), then don't do it. This decision is about options and playstyle; and both vanilla and MT have their advantage. I think the actual balance point for theurges IMO would be entry after 2 levels in each class, a mark missed by both the intended design and practical entry unfortunately.
Last edited by FMArthur; 2011-03-03 at 11:26 PM.
- Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
- Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.
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Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]
There is one legal such example. Now be a good min/maxer and search BG for some of my work. Hint all you have to d