New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 39
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gomipile's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010

    Default Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Is there any way to make a wisdom-based arcane caster?
    Quote Originally Posted by Harnel View Post
    where is the atropal? and does it have a listed LA?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Not that I know of. I thought the best bet would be to try using the Generic Classes from the SRD, but even there you're rebuffed since it requires arcane casters to cast from int or cha, while divine casters cast from wis.

    You can get psionics to cast from wis rather trivially, (psy war, ardent) and you can get divine casters to cast off of int (archivist), but I don't think the arcane spells from wis route is possible.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by gomipile View Post
    Is there any way to make a wisdom-based arcane caster?
    Yes, homebrew

    If it's just the spells you're after, there are divine casters that get arcane spells, like Divine Bard and Shugenja... Clerics get some through domains, and you can get several arcane-ish effects through psionics, using the Ardent for a Wis basis.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Dusk Eclipse's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Runite
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    There is a 3rd party feat "lost tradition" that let's you change your casting stat to any other stat. It is found in Bastards & Bloodlines IIRC.

    Also the Dark hunter (web check the current IC ) is a wis based arcane spellcaster.
    Just call me Dusk
    Avatar by Ceika

    Dming: Eyes of the Lich Queen IC OOC


  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gomipile's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Yes, homebrew

    If it's just the spells you're after, there are divine casters that get arcane spells, like Divine Bard and Shugenja... Clerics get some through domains, and you can get several arcane-ish effects through psionics, using the Ardent for a Wis basis.
    No, I wanted it for a Theurge-type build to pair with Cleric. Wizard+Archivist loses out on some Cleric class features I wanted.

    Also, its for a 25 point buy, so the build needs to be SAD for casting stats.
    Last edited by gomipile; 2011-03-02 at 05:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harnel View Post
    where is the atropal? and does it have a listed LA?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    As stated, without 3rd-party or homebrew you are stuck. WotC's design philosophy has been "Wis = Divine." (Though not necessarily Divine = Wis.)
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    ~ Gay all day, queer all year ~

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by gomipile View Post
    No, I wanted it for a Theurge-type build to pair with Cleric. Wizard+Archivist loses out on some Cleric class features I wanted.

    Also, its for a 25 point buy, so the build needs to be SAD for casting stats.
    You've pretty much nailed the reason there are no WIS based arcane casters - they don't want theurge types to be overpowered.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Why not go with int based divine caster instead?
    Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    The Divine Bard from UA is a wisdom based arcane caster
    Fools are made to suffer, not to be suffered

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    As well as the Unseelie Dark Hunter linked above, there is a third party feat that will key your casting off any ability. It's called Lost Tradition, is 1st level only, and will key your casting for one class off any stat (even the physical ones). So if third party material is allowed, you could take this feat to key your Wizard, Sorcerer or any other casting off WIS. The feat appears in the book Bastards & Bloodlines.

    If you're looking to make a theurge based primarily off one stat, there are other options. A Favored Soul/Sorcerer is primarily CHA based - the only thing that runs off WIS is your FS DCs. If you stick to buffs and other spells with no DC on the FS side, you're golden.

    You could also try a Wizard/Archivist, based mainly off INT. The only thing running off WIS would be your Archivist bonus spells...
    Quote Originally Posted by cZak View Post
    The Divine Bard from UA is a wisdom based arcane caster
    Their maximum spells level is based off WIS, but DC and bonus spells is still based off CHA.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    FMArthur's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    You can do it very easily with the Geomancer prestige class, but since you're looking for something dual-progression you'll need something with fast progression to make up for 11 lost levels on your divine side...

    I don't think it's actually possible for dual 9s this way barring Assume Supernatural Ability entry into Beholder Mage.
    Last edited by FMArthur; 2011-03-02 at 08:38 PM.
    • Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
    • Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Actually, thinking about it, a Favored Soul/Sorcerer might be a good mystic theurge. With Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten spell (or similar), you could jump into Mystic Theurge at 4th level: FS 2/Sorc 1/MT X. You'd need to find a way to get Knowledge (religion) as a class skill, but that's fairly easy.

    So, FS 2/Sorc 1/MT 10/Legacy Champion 6/FS 1 would get you 18th level FS casting and 16th level Sorc casting. Not too bad.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Ravens_cry's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by cZak View Post
    The Divine Bard from UA is a wisdom based arcane caster
    Nope, the Divine Bard casts divine spells.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    Nope, the Divine Bard casts divine spells.
    Correct. In fact in many ways the divine bard is worse than the normal sort because they need a high enough WIS score to be able to cast any given level of spell, but rely on CHA for everything else.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Ravens_cry's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by holywhippet View Post
    Correct. In fact in many ways the divine bard is worse than the normal sort because they need a high enough WIS score to be able to cast any given level of spell, but rely on CHA for everything else.
    16 Wisdom isn't terribly hard to get by 14th level, but it does require resources that could be put elsewhere. Personally, I always felt that the duel casting stat felt like an unnecessary gimp for most classes that have it, especially for classes that also require physical stats to work well.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2011-03-02 at 10:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    16 Wisdom isn't terribly hard to get by 14th level, but it does require resources that could be put elsewhere. Personally, I always felt that the duel casting stat felt like an unnecessary gimp for most classes that have it, especially for classes that also require physical stats to work well.
    I think casters are powerful enough that making them all need two casting stats like that (DAD?) wouldn't be a major issue. The only thing you need to be sure is that one stat covers both bonus spells and save DCs (call this one the "pump stat") and the other covers highest-level spells known. (The "bar stat.")
    Last edited by Psyren; 2011-03-02 at 11:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    The last time I played a bard - I had a WIS score of 8. This was point buy so I didn't spend a single point on it because every other stat was far more important than WIS. I could have attained 16 WIS if I wanted to, but I would have considered it to be wasteful - like a wizard maxxing out STR.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by gomipile View Post
    No, I wanted it for a Theurge-type build to pair with Cleric. Wizard+Archivist loses out on some Cleric class features I wanted.

    Also, its for a 25 point buy, so the build needs to be SAD for casting stats.
    This and will saves is exactly why it's stronger than an int or cha based arcane caster. Ya you should homebrew it, but make sure it has some drawback to compensate. Maybe... spells per day = sorcerer spells known plus bonus spells. Each only cast-able 1/day unless you pick duplicates. So you cast like a wizard but without being able to swap spells in the morning and so on. Worst of both worlds. And yet tolerable on a theurge type.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-03-02 at 11:58 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Durham
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Or take the feat, and let your Dm eventually notice your spell DC's are awfully high considering your Int score.

    That or take flaws if allowed.

    But yeah they didn't want Arcane and Divine people to become Theurges that cause death upon there foes at level 10.
    Check Out
    Check out my youtube channel just click here and enjoy?

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Miscast_Mage View Post
    You're a frickin' ninja below me, too!? You got mad skills, Vknight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbane View Post
    Rogue vs. Dog. (The new Cat vs. Commoner, only not amusing!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    You are making the assumption of rational planning. After 37 years of dungeon crawling, I still have zero evidence that the average dungeon was designed by the sane.
    "Sleep is optional, just ask Vknight" Someone I Forget but thanks... I don't

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by FMArthur View Post
    You can do it very easily with the Geomancer prestige class, but since you're looking for something dual-progression you'll need something with fast progression to make up for 11 lost levels on your divine side...

    I don't think it's actually possible for dual 9s this way barring Assume Supernatural Ability entry into Beholder Mage.
    Loredrake Kobold into Ur-Priest.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    California, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    I remember asking for something similar a long while back. What I wound up with was The Demented One creating the Thaumaturge.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by gomipile View Post
    No, I wanted it for a Theurge-type build to pair with Cleric. Wizard+Archivist loses out on some Cleric class features I wanted.

    Also, its for a 25 point buy, so the build needs to be SAD for casting stats.
    INT: 15
    WIS: 15
    CON: 14
    DEX: 11
    STR: 8
    CHA: 8

    Are perfectly acceptable stats for a mystic theurge.

    As are INT: 16, WIS: 15, DEX: 15, CON: 12, CHA: 8, STR: 6, race: Grey Elf.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Thurbane's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    If he wants Turning from Cleric, he probably wants higher than 8 CHA...

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    This and will saves is exactly why it's stronger than an int or cha based arcane caster. Ya you should homebrew it, but make sure it has some drawback to compensate. Maybe... spells per day = sorcerer spells known plus bonus spells. Each only cast-able 1/day unless you pick duplicates. So you cast like a wizard but without being able to swap spells in the morning and so on. Worst of both worlds. And yet tolerable on a theurge type.
    I respectfully disagree. You are one or two spell levels down. Wis might help more things than Cha but less than Int. Will saves do not really matter, as you are at least triple classed in high Will save classes, you will make those saves anyway. In my opinion a Wis-based wizard, say, would be weaker than an Int-based, even in a theurge build. I would allow it without compensation.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    FMArthur's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I think casters are powerful enough that making them all need two casting stats like that (DAD?) wouldn't be a major issue. The only thing you need to be sure is that one stat covers both bonus spells and save DCs (call this one the "pump stat") and the other covers highest-level spells known. (The "bar stat.")
    I'd rather eliminate the "bar stat" altogether since all it does is arbitrarily disclude low-stat characters (like NPCs) from being what they really need to be. I like the idea of splitting save DCs and bonus spells - quantity vs quality. Extra spells lets you be more versatile and have better staying power, while save DCs influence how powerful the spells you cast are... ostensibly (if only so much of that wasn't part of caster level and not save DCs).
    • Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
    • Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Prime32's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ireland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    You could always dip into (cloistered) cleric for Turn Undead.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Chicago Suburbs
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Mystic Theurge (if that is your intended target) is a horrible, insidious trap. To quote Eldariel (in his guide to being batman), "Play a Wiz 3/Cleric 3/MT 1 in the same party as a Cleric 7 and a Wizard 7. Then cry." Straight wizard or straight cleric is better, and both of those are SAD classes.
    Iron Chef Award!

    Spoiler
    Show

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    FMArthur's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    Early entry makes it a very good deal actually. A 1 level dip in Divine class X followed by MT 10 to gain 11 levels in another full-casting class is pretty awesome if you ask me. If you're looking for something that is strictly, 100% stronger in every way (spoiled by Incantatrices?), then don't do it. This decision is about options and playstyle; and both vanilla and MT have their advantage. I think the actual balance point for theurges IMO would be entry after 2 levels in each class, a mark missed by both the intended design and practical entry unfortunately.
    Last edited by FMArthur; 2011-03-03 at 11:26 PM.
    • Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
    • Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.

  30. - Top - End - #30

    Default Re: Wis based arcane caster? [3.5]

    There is one legal such example. Now be a good min/maxer and search BG for some of my work. Hint all you have to d

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •