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    Default [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Spellthief




    Class Skills
    The Spellthief's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Search (Int), Speak Language (none), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha)
    Skills Points at Each Level: 6 + int

    Hit Dice: d6

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st| +0 | +0 | +2 | +2 |Spellstrike +1d6, Steal Spell, Trapfinding

    2nd| +1 | +0 | +3 | +3 |Detect Magic, Spellgrace, Steal Spell Effect

    3rd| +2 | +1 | +3 | +3 |Spell Poisons, Spellstrike +2d6, Steal Energy Resistance 10

    4th| +3 | +1 | +4 | +4 |Absorb Spell, Evasion

    5th| +3 | +1 | +4 | +4 |Mettle, Spellstrike +3d6

    6th| +4 | +2 | +5 | +5 |Discover Spells

    7th| +5 | +2 | +5 | +5 |Arcane Sight, Spellstrike +4d6

    8th| +6/+1 | +2 | +6 | +6 |Bypass Magical Defenses (AC)

    9th| +6/+1 | +3 | +6 | +6 |Spellstrike +5d6

    10th| +7/+2 | +3 | +7 | +7 |Steal Energy Resistance 20

    11th| +8/+3 | +3 | +7 | +7 |Spellstrike +6d6, Steal Spell Resistance

    12th| +9/+4 | +4 | +8 | +8 |Bypass Magical Defenses (miss chances)

    13th| +9/+4 | +4 | +8 | +8 |Spellstrike +7d6

    14th| +10/+5 | +4 | +9 | +9 |True Seeing

    15th| +11/+6/+1 | +5 | +9 | +9 |Spellstrike +8d6

    16th| +12/+7/+2 | +5 | +10 | +10 |Bypass Magical Defenses (other)

    17th| +12/+7/+2 | +5 | +10 | +10 |Spellstrike +9d6, Steal Energy Resistance 30

    18th| +13/+8/+3 | +6 | +11 | +11 |Spellthief's Sight

    19th| +14/+9/+4 | +6 | +11 | +11 |Spellstrike +10d6

    20th| +15/+10/+5 | +6 | +12 | +12 |Absorb Spell (immediate casting), Grand Larceny Arcana[/table]

    Spellthief Spells per Day:
    Spoiler
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    {table=head]1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
    1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
    3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
    3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-
    4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
    4|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-
    4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-
    4|4|4|3|2|-|-|-|-
    4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-
    4|4|4|3|3|2|-|-|-
    4|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-
    4|4|4|4|3|3|2|-|-
    4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|-
    4|4|4|4|4|3|3|2|-
    4|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1
    4|4|4|4|4|4|3|3|2
    4|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|3
    4|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|4[/table]


    Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A Spellthief is proficient with all simple weapons, plus three martial weapons of his choice. A Spellthief is proficient with light armor but not with shields. Because the somatic components for spellthief spells are simple, a spellthief can cast spellthief spells (and stolen spells) while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, a spellthief wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure.

    Spellcasting: A spellthief has the ability to cast a limited number of spells per day, which are drawn from the spellthief spell list (see below). A spellthief knows all spellthief spells of a level he is able to cast. However, a spellthief cannot cast spells in the usual way; he must first deliver a Spellstrike, and may then cast an appropriate spell as a free action. The spellthief may only cast a single spell per round in this way.

    To cast a spell, a spellthief must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Int 11 for 1st level spells, Int 12 for 2nd level spells, and so on). The DC for a saving throw against a spellthief's spell is 10 + spell level + spellthief's Int modifier.

    If a spellthief wishes to apply metamagic effects to his spells, he must devote spell slots to the specific metamagicked spells at the start of the day, like a prepared spellcaster, unless he uses stolen spells (see below) to power the casting, in which case he is treated like any spontaneous caster, including increased casting time for the spell.

    Unlike most spellcasters, spellthieves do not receive bonus spells per day for having a high spellcasting ability score.

    Spellstrike (Su): If a spellthief can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from his attack, he can wreath his weapon in ephemeral arcane energy to deal extra damage.

    The spellthiefís attack deals extra damage any time his target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the spellthief flanks his target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and it increases by 1d6 every two spellthief levels thereafter. Should the spellthief score a critical hit with a spellstrike, this extra damage is not multiplied. A ranged attack only counts as a spellstrike if the spellthief is within 60 feet of his target.

    Whenever he would deliver a spellstrike, a spellthief may sacrifice any number of damage dice (up to 9 spellstrike damage dice) to cast a spellthief spell of the same level as a free action. (For example, a 5th level spellthief may sacrifice 1d6 spellstrike damage to cast shocking grasp as a free action. His spellstrike still deals +2d6 damage, and he deals damage with shocking grasp normally. The same spellthief could also sacrifice 3d6 spellstrike damage to cast lightning bolt, in which case his attack would do normal damage, and then he would determine the effects of lightning bolt normally.)

    A spell cast via spellstrike uses the same type of attack roll as the spellstrike, if necessary. For example, a spellthief could use spellstrike with a longsword to cast scorching ray, and the rays from scorching ray would require a melee touch attack to hit, regardless of actual distance. Likewise, a spellthief could use spellstrike with a thrown dagger to cast shocking grasp, and shocking grasp would require a ranged touch attack to hit. Spells that do not require attack rolls normally do not require one if delivered via a spellstrike.

    Additionally, the spellthief may sacrifice a spell slot of the appropriate level as a free action to make any physical attack a spellstrike, even if he would not normally be able to perform a spellstrike on his target because he did not meet the criteria. A spellstrike delivered in this fashion cannot also be used to cast a spellthief spell. A spellstrike of this kind only deals damage dice equal to the level of the spell sacrificed, which may be less than the normal damage dealt by his spellstrikes.

    Spellstrike is considered sneak attack for all purposes, including (but not limited to) feat and prestige class qualification. Unlike sneak attack, spellstrikes are not truly precision damage, and as such may be used on creatures normally immune to sneak attacks.

    A spell cast via a spellstrike cannot also be a spellstrike.

    Steal Spell (Su): A spellthief can siphon spell energy away from his target and use it for himself. A spellthief who hits an opponent with a successful spellstrike can choose to forgo dealing 1d6 points of spellstrike damage and instead steal a spell, or the potential to cast a specific known spell, from his target. If the target is willing, a spellthief can steal a spell with a touch as a standard action.

    The target of a Steal Spell attack loses one 0th-level or 1st-level spell from memory if she prepares spells ahead of time, or one 0th-level or 1st-level spell slot if she is a spontaneous caster. A spontaneous caster also loses the ability to cast the stolen spell for 1 minute. If the target has no prepared spells or no spell slots remaining, Steal Spell has no effect. A spellthief can choose which spell to steal, otherwise the DM determines the stolen spell randomly. If a spellthief tries to steal a spell that isn't available, the stolen spell or spell slot is determined randomly from among those the target has available.

    For example, a 1st level spellthief who uses this ability against a 1st level sorcerer could choose to steal magic missile. Assuming the sorcerer knew that spell, a successful Steal Spell attaack would eliminate one 1st level spell slot and temporarily prevent her from casting magic missile. If the same spellthief stole magic missile from a wizard who had it prepared, the wizard would lose one prepared magic missile spell, but wouldn't lose any other magic missile spells she might have prepared.

    After stealing a spell, a spellthief can cast the spell himself on a subsequent turn, without first needing to deliver a spellstrike. Treat the spell as if it were cast by the original owner of the spell for determining caster level, save DC, and so forth. A spellthief can cast this spell even if he doesn't have the minimum ability score normally required to cast a spell of that level. The spellthief must supply the same components (including verbal, somatic, material, XP, and any focus) required for the stolen spell.

    Alternately, a spellthief can use the stolen spell power to cast any spellthief spell that he knows of the same level or lower (effectively, this gives the spellthief one free casting of a known spell). The spellthief can cast a spellthief spell in this fashion without first delivering a spellstrike.

    A spellthief must cast a stolen spell (or use its energy to cast one of his own spells) within one hour of stealing it, otherwise the energy fades away.

    As a spellthief gains levels, he can choose to steal higher level spells. At 3rd level and every two levels thereafter, the maximum spell level stolen increases by one, to a maximum of 9th level spells at 17th level.

    At any one time, a spellthief can possess a maximum number of stolen spells equal to his class level (treat 0th level spells as 1/2 spell level for this purpose).

    A spellthief can't apply metamagic feats or other effects to the stolen spell unless the specific spell stolen was prepared with such an effect, or if he uses the spell power to cast one of his own spells.

    A spellthief can also steal spell-like abilities with his spellstrikes. The stolen spell-like ability can originate from the target's class, race, template, or any other source, and can have an effective spell level equal to the normal spell level the spellthief can steal. A spellthief can choose a specific spell-like ability to steal, otherwise the DM chooses the ability at random. If the ability has a limited number of uses per day, the target must have at least one such use left, or the spellthief can't steal the ability.

    A spellthief can use a stolen spell-like ability once. For all purposes, treat the spell-like ability as if it were a stolen spell, following the rules listed above, except that it must be used within 1 minute or dissipate harmlessly. Until the spellthief uses the spell-like ability (or until it expires), the target cannot use the stolen ability.

    Trapfinding (Ex): A spellthief can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20.

    Finding a nonmagical trap has a DC of at least 20, or higher if it is well hidden. Finding a magic trap has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

    Spellthieves can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.

    A spellthief who beats a trapís DC by 10 or more with a Disable Device check can study a trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it (with his party) without disarming it.

    Detect Magic (Sp): A spellthief of 2nd level or higher may use detect magic a number of times per day equal to his Intelligence bonus. His caster level for this ability is equal to his spellthief level.

    Spellgrace (Su): A spellthief of 2nd level or higher gains a competence bonus on his saves against magical effects (spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities) equal to his Intelligence modifier. This bonus cannot exceed his spellthief level.

    Steal Spell Effect (Su): A spellthief of 2nd level or higher can siphon an active spell effect from another creature. A spellthief who hits an opponent with a spellstrike can choose to forgo dealing 1d6 points of spellstrike damage and instead gain the effect of a single spell affecting the target. If the target is willing, a spellthief can steal a spell effect with a touch as a standard action.

    The spellthief can choose which spell effect to steal, otherwise the DM determines the stolen spell effect randomly. If the spellthief tries to steal a spell effect that isn't present, the stolen spell effect is determined randomly from among those currently in effect on the target. A spellthief can't steal a spell effect if its caster level exceeds his class level + his Intelligence modifier.

    Upon stealing a spell effect, a spellthief gains the stolen effect (and the original creature loses that effect) for 1 minute per class level or until the spell's duration expires, whichever comes first. If the spell's effect hasn't expired by this time, the spell effect returns to the creature that originally benefited from it.

    A spellthief can steal the effect of a spell only if he would be a valid target for the spell if he cast it himself. As such, he could steal the effect of mirror image, a personal range spell, but not animal growth, a spell that only affects animals (unless the spellthief has the Animal type, of course). Even if the Spellthief tries to steal an effect that he could not benefit from, the effect is still suppressed on the original target of the spell for the normal duration of this ability.

    Spell Poisons (Su): A spellthief of 3rd level or higher may imbue a poison (or positoxin(Libris Mortis) or ravage(BoED); anything that functions as a poison) with arcana, changing its effects appropriately. A spell poison only affects a creature that could be affected by the base poison. Altering a poison in this way is a swift action. Only spellthieves can use spell poisons properly; to anyone else, they are nothing more than the base poison.

    A spell poison uses the same method of application as the original poison, and has a DC equal to the base poison plus the level of the spell slot sacrificed for the poison.

    A dose of poison imbued with arcana expires after one hour, even if stored properly.

    Additionally, the spellthief gains the ability to use poison without the risk of poisoning himself.

    Spell poisons:
    Spoiler
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    Spellcaster's Bane: Requires a spell slot of 2nd level or higher. Initial damage: poisoned foe must succeed on a caster level check equal to 10 + the spellthief's level to cast any spell for 1 minute. Failure indicates that the action is lost, but not the prepared spell or spell slot. Secondary damage: inability to cast spells for 1 minute.

    Mindfire: Requires a spell slot of 5th level or higher. Initial damage: poisoned foe takes 1d12 damage per spell level of a spell it casts for 1 minute. Secondary damage: poisoned foe takes 1 Con damage per spell level of a spell cast for 1 hour.

    Spellthief's Mirror: Requires a spell slot of 7th level or higher. Initial damage: poisoned foe is subjected to the effect of a targeted greater dispel magic whenever it casts a spell for 1 minute, caster level equal to the spellthief's level. Secondary damage: target is subjected to the effect of mordenkainen's disjunction whenever it casts a spell for 1 minute. Items are not affected, unlike the actual spell.

    Arcane Backlash: Requires a 9th level spell slot. Initial damage: poisoned foe is subjected to the effect of a disintegrate spell, as if cast by the spellthief, whenever it casts a spell for 1 minute. Secondary damage: poisoned foe is reduced to -1 hp if it casts a spell within 1 minute.


    Steal Energy Resistance (Su): A spellthief of 3rd level or higher can siphon away some or all of a target's resistance to an energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic). A spellthief who hits an opponent with a successful spellstrike can choose to forgo dealing 1d6 points of spellstrike damage and instead temporarily gain resistance 10 to an energy type to which his target is resistant (or immune). Simultaneously, the target creature's resistance to that energy type is reduced by 10 (to a minimum of 0). If the target is willing, the spellthief can steal energy resistance with a touch as a standard action.

    If his target has more than one type of resistance to energy, a spellthief can choose which kind to steal, otherwise the DM determines the stolen resistance randomly from among those possessed by the target. If a spellthief chooses to steal a type of resistance that the target doesn't possess, the stolen type of resistance is determined randomly from among those possessed by the target.

    The resistance a spellthief gains from using this ability lasts for 1 minute. If the resistance is derived from a temporary effect such as a spell, the stolen resistance disappears when the effect expires.

    A spellthief can use this ability multiple times, but its effects do not stack unless they apply to different types of energy.

    At 10th level, a spellthief can steal 20 points of energy resistance, and at 17th level he can steal 30 points.

    A creature that has immunity to an energy type does not lose its immunity to that type of energy unless the spellthief steals at least 20 points of resistance from it, in which case it is treated as if it had energy resistance 30 to that type. Stealing 30 points of resistance instead leaves the normally immune target with resistance 20 to that type.

    Absorb Spell (Su): Whenever a spellthief of 4th level or higher makes a successful save against a spell that targets him, he can attempt to absorb the spell energy for later use. This ability affects only spells that have the spellthief as a target, not area spells. A spellthief can't absorb a spell of a higher level than he could steal with his Steal Spell ability.

    To absorb a spell, a spellthief must succeed on a level check (1d20 + spellthief level) against a DC of 10 + the spell's caster level. Failure indicates that the spell has its normal effect (which may be nothing, given the spellthief's successful save). Success means that the spellthief gains the energy of the spell as if he had stolen it from his target using his Steal Spell ability.

    At 20th level, a spellthief can use the energy of an absorbed spell (whether that be to cast the same spell or one of his own) as an immediate action.

    Evasion (Ex): A spellthief of 4th level or higher can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save (such as a fireball spell), he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a spellthief is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless spellthief (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Mettle (Ex): A spellthief of 5th level or higher can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower or fortitude. If he makes a successful Will or Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping spellthief does not gain the benefit of mettle.

    Discover Spells (Ex): A spellthief of 6th level or higher who steals a spell from a spellcaster with his Steal Spell ability automatically learns the names of all other spells prepared or known by the spellcaster that are of the same spell level as the stolen spell, allowing the spellthief to better choose which spells to steal on subsequent attacks.

    Arcane Sight (Sp): A spellthief of 7th level or higher can use arcane sight as a swift action a number of times per day equal to his Intelligence modifier. His caster level is equal to his spellthief class level.

    Bypass Magical Defenses (Su): Beginning at 8th level, whenever a spellthief would deliver a spellstrike, he can ignore some measure of magical protection on his target.

    At 8th level, this ability allows the spellthief to ignore the effect of any spell that confers a bonus to AC on his target.

    At 12th level, this ability allows the spellthief to bypass any miss chances caused by a spell. This allows the spellthief to automatically discern which creature of a set of mirror images is real, and to strike a creature under the effects of blink without fail, and so forth.

    At 16th level, this ability allows the spellthief to bypass other forms of magical protection, including (but not limited to) spells that grant damage reduction (such as protection from arrows) or immunity to his attacks (such as ironguard or the total cover from wings of cover), or that grant a beneficial type to the creature (such as veil of undeath granting the creature immunity to the spellthief's poisons, if applicable). The spellthief also does not trigger contingency effects until after his spellstrike resolves.

    Steal Spell Resistance (Su): A spellthief of 11th level or higher can use a spellstrike to temporarily steal some or all of a creature's spell resistance. A spellthief who hits an opponent with a spellstrike can choose to forgo 3d6 points of spellstrike damage and instead reduce the target's spell resistance by an amount equal to the spellthief's level. The spellthief also gains spell resistance equal to 10 + the amount stolen, up to a maximum of the value equal to the original spell resistance of the target. If the target is willing, a spellthief can steal spell resistance with a touch as a standard action.

    The stolen spell resistance benefits the spellthief for a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence modifier, and then returns to the target creature. If the spell resistance is derived from a temporary effect, the stolen spell resistance disappearsw hen the effect would normally end. A spellthief can't use this ability on the same creature until the stolen spell resistance returns.

    True Seeing (Sp): A spellthief of 14th level or higher can use true seeing as a swift action a number of times per day equal to his Intelligence modifier. His caster level is equal to his spellthief class level.

    Spellthief's Sight (Su): A spellthief of 18th level or higher can no longer use his detect magic, arcane sight, or true seeing abilities normally. Instead, he gains all of these effects as continuous supernatural effects. The spellthief may suppress or resume any of these effects as a free action.

    Grand Larceny Arcana (Su): Whenever a spellthief of 20th level steals a spell, spell-like ability, or spell effect, he steals two spells or spell effects at the same time.

    Additionally, whenever the spellthief confirms a critical hit with a spellstrike used to steal a spell, he may steal every spell prepared or spell slot of a chosen level, even if these spells would exceed his normal maximum. This effect cannot occur more than once per round, and the spellthief may never use this effect on the target's highest level spells.
    Last edited by Jarian; 2012-06-25 at 05:14 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Spellthief spell list

    1st: Burning Hands, Hail of Stones*, Ice Dagger*, Lesser Orb of X*, Magic Missile, Persistent Blade*, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shocking Grasp, Spirit Worm*

    2nd: Acid Arrow, Belker Claws*, Blast of Force*, Bonefiddle*, Combust*, Gust of Wind, Ice Knife*, Life Bolt*, Ray of Ice*, Scorching Ray, Touch of Idiocy

    3rd: Bands of Steel*, Chain Missile*, Fireball, Hold Person, Icelance*, Lightning Bolt, Manyjaws*, Mind Poison*, Ray of Exhaustion, Sound Lance*, Spell Vulnerability*, Vampiric Touch

    4th: Assay Spell Resistance*, Blast of Flame*, Confusion, Crushing Despair, Energy Spheres*, Enervation, Explosive Cascade*, Fear, Fire Shield, Force Missiles*, Ice Storm, Orb of X*, Shout, Sword of Deception*

    5th: Arc of Lightning*, Ball Lightning*, Cacophonic Burst*, Cloudkill, Cone of Cold, Cyclonic Blast*, Dismissal, Feeblemind, Graymantle*, Hold Monster, Reciprocal Gyre*, Shard Storm*, Waves of Fatigue

    6th: Acid Fog, Acid Storm*, Chain Lightning, Disintegrate, Fire Spiders*, Flesh to Stone, Fleshshiver*, Freezing Sphere, Overwhelm(PHB2), Ray of Entropy*, Thunder Field(PHB2)

    7th: Avasculate*, Delayed Blast Fireball, Finger of Death, Glass Strike*, Ice Claw*, Insanity, Mass Hold Person, Mordenkainen's Sword, Plane Shift (foe only), Radiant Assault*, Sword of Darkness*, Waves of Exhaustion

    8th: Avascular Mass*, Field of Icy Razors*, Flensing*, Greater Shout, Horrid Wilting, Incendiary Cloud, Lightning Ring*, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Polar Ray, Sunburst, Wrathful Castigation*

    9th: Black Blade of Disaster*, Mass Hold Monster, Maw of Chaos*, Meteor Swarm, Obedient Avalanche*, Power Word Kill, Reality Maelstrom*, Sphere of Ultimate Destruction*, Wail of the Banshee



    Spells marked with an asterisk can be found in the Spell Compendium.
    Last edited by Jarian; 2011-03-04 at 08:25 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Summary of changes:
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    Most spellthief abilities have faster progressions or come sooner in the class progression.

    Spellthief Sneak Attack has been replaced with Spellstrike, which allows the Spellthief a unique method of casting spells, or reliable bonus damage if he chooses not to cast spells.

    Spellgrace comes earlier and provides a better effect, not unlike a Paladin's Divine Grace.

    The Spellthief's abilities that grant vision modes have been moved to earlier in the class progression, and True Seeing has been added at the end of the progression.

    The Spellthief now has actual class features that allow him to hit spellcasters, rather than swinging ineffectually against a slew of defensive spells.

    The Spellthief can now steal SLA's for his entire career, so he can be effective against monsters as well as creatures with class levels. The increased restriction on stolen SLA's has been removed.

    Spell poisons allow the spellthief to function as an assassin-type against spellcasters, at the cost of some of his own spellcasting.

    The spellthief can now actually steal spell resistance, rather than providing a minor inconvenience to foes with spell resistance.

    The spellthief finally has a real capstone, rather than a simple augment to an ability he gained half a lifetime ago.


    What the spellthief is intended to be:
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    In short, the spellthief is meant to be a magical skillmonkey that maintains a strong combat presence. The spellthief can also fill the role of a secondary caster, not unlike a bard, but lacks the innate casting ability to fill the role of the primary arcanist himself.

    The new spellthief also has a greatly increased ability to deal with spellcasters, something the original class promised but failed to deliver. Between spell poisons and the ability to bypass many magical defenses, the spellthief should finally be something for a caster to worry about, rather than a rogue with a gimped sneak attack progression and the ability to provide a minor inconvenience if he manages to steal a spell by some miracle.

    At the end of the day, the spellthief will still fail against a properly paranoid wizard, but the ability to kill tier 1 characters played as such was never the intent of this rewrite. The spellthief is intended to be able to play in a party of tier 2-or-so characters and not overshadow or be overshadowed by anyone else.
    Last edited by Jarian; 2011-03-04 at 08:46 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    This is glorious. Wonderful and glorious. *weeps*

    Seriously, top notch work.

    In fact, it kind of makes me want to try re-making the spellthief... would you mind if I used some of your ideas here (giving you proper credit, of course)?
    I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
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    okay RoC, that is enough! the gitp boards can only take so much awsome, you might actually hurt somebody with this one!
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    This is glorious. Wonderful and glorious. *weeps*

    Seriously, top notch work.
    Thanks.

    In fact, it kind of makes me want to try re-making the spellthief... would you mind if I used some of your ideas here (giving you proper credit, of course)?
    Go for it.
    Last edited by Jarian; 2011-03-04 at 11:09 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    ......... It's everything I imagined and more! Seriously top notch work, I'll have more comments as I think through the implications of certain abilities.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    YAYS! A redux/revision of my favorite non melee class!
    So, interesting casting mechanic, could be problematic with getting flanks on enemys sometimes, paticuerly when anything with a wisdom higher than 15 is mostly immune to your spells.

    Must find DM willing to allow this.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    This class is very powerful, and almost strictly better than the rogue, other than the fact that it gets a couple less skill points, and no Improved Evasion. If you want there to be a reason to play rogues in the same campaign as spellthieves, I would take out Trapfinding and Evasion, and make spellstrike only usable on creatures with spellcasting ability. Right now it's just super sneak attack, before even taking Steal Spell into account.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron Corm View Post
    This class is very powerful, and almost strictly better than the rogue, other than the fact that it gets a couple less skill points, and no Improved Evasion. If you want there to be a reason to play rogues in the same campaign as spellthieves, I would take out Trapfinding and Evasion, and make spellstrike only usable on creatures with spellcasting ability. Right now it's just super sneak attack, before even taking Steal Spell into account.
    This class is tier 2, not tier 5. It's meant to be played alongside rogues like this one, rather than the one in the PHB.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Looks good at a glance. No time to look it over in detail.

    Why Tier 2 as a goal? Most people aim for 3, so I'm curious about your reasoning. (In any case, I'm not sure it gets there without Rainbow Servant nonsense. It looks more like an especially powerful Tier 3, especially as the spell list is mostly blasting and a small bit of save-or-die. Remember, 1-2 aren't power levels, they're markers that you can actually break the game.)
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by gkathellar View Post
    Why Tier 2 as a goal? Most people aim for 3, so I'm curious about your reasoning. (In any case, I'm not sure it gets there without Rainbow Servant nonsense. It looks more like an especially powerful Tier 3, especially as the spell list is mostly blasting and a small bit of save-or-die. Remember, 1-2 aren't power levels, they're markers that you can actually break the game.)
    The games I most enjoy playing in are high powered without being ridiculous. I've always read tier 2 on the tier system as fitting this to a T - capable of casting any spell, ever, if given access to it. Without that, still has incredible damage potential and the ability to UMD anything ever. Seems spot on with the "10 nukes vs 10,000" comparison between tier 1 and 2. Opinions may vary.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    The 9-level casting progression threw me until I realized they were all nukes. It's an interesting idea, combining a situational weapon attack with a bunch of offensive nukes to make blaster gish. Do you see the role of the offensive spells as filling in when the spellthief can't set up a sneak attack?

    You might cut Plane Shift (foe only) in favor of Banishment or something. Foe or enemy means whatever the caster needs it to mean, so you could still Plane Shift party members by momentarily declaring them to be "Foes."

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Hrm. I've looked over most of the class, and while it seems to be okay, I don't think that's what I picture a spellthief to be. A duskblade, maybe. In fact, that's going to be what I assume you were aiming for. *mentally replaces all "spellthief" with "duskblade*

    Do you have to include the target of the spellstrike in the spell's effects? If you drop 3d6 damage to cast a fireball, do you need to center it on them, or at least catch them with the blast?

    I'm not sold on the Spellpoisons, but at least the DC is slightly more decent. They're probably still too expensive for one-shot effects like that if you want a decent DC (even by sac'ing a 9th level slot).
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by stainboy View Post
    The 9-level casting progression threw me until I realized they were all nukes. It's an interesting idea, combining a situational weapon attack with a bunch of offensive nukes to make blaster gish. Do you see the role of the offensive spells as filling in when the spellthief can't set up a sneak attack?
    Considering the casting mechanic requires spellstrikes, no, I don't.

    You might cut Plane Shift (foe only) in favor of Banishment or something. Foe or enemy means whatever the caster needs it to mean, so you could still Plane Shift party members by momentarily declaring them to be "Foes."
    I'm not going to cut a neat Save-Or-Lose on the off chance a DM somewhere allows players to call their buddies foes whenever it's convenient for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Siosilvar View Post
    Hrm. I've looked over most of the class, and while it seems to be okay, I don't think that's what I picture a spellthief to be.
    Considering it gets everything the normal spellthief gets, I don't see how this is any less of a spellthief than the original, but whatever works for you.

    Do you have to include the target of the spellstrike in the spell's effects? If you drop 3d6 damage to cast a fireball, do you need to center it on them, or at least catch them with the blast?
    Nope. You simply cast the spell as normal.

    I'm not sold on the Spellpoisons, but at least the DC is slightly more decent. They're probably still too expensive for one-shot effects like that if you want a decent DC (even by sac'ing a 9th level slot).
    If you have suggestions for improving them, I'm all ears.
    Last edited by Jarian; 2011-03-10 at 02:54 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    for the 20th level steal all prepared spells, it is only on a nat 20, or could i say steal all of my enemies prepared spells on a 15 using a kurki with improved crit

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Master Thrower View Post
    for the 20th level steal all prepared spells, it is only on a nat 20, or could i say steal all of my enemies prepared spells on a 15 using a kurki with improved crit
    If you threaten and confirm a critical, regardless of the threat range, the effect triggers.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzardevil View Post
    YAYS! A redux/revision of my favorite non melee class!
    So, interesting casting mechanic, could be problematic with getting flanks on enemys sometimes, paticuerly when anything with a wisdom higher than 15 is mostly immune to your spells.

    Must find DM willing to allow this.
    How does having Wisdom 15+ grant immunity to any spell, or to flanking?

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    First of all, let me applaud with both hands, nice piece of work.
    You almost cured the spellthief's MAD (taking out CHA)

    A few reserves however :

    However, a spellthief cannot cast spells in the usual way; he must first deliver a Spellstrike, and may then cast an appropriate spell as a free action.
    So say, I steal a "knock" from a wizard, and the remaining damage kills the wizard :
    • Am I supposed to stab myself to cast the spell ?
    • Stab the door ?
    • Wait for an ennemy to come up so i can open the door ?

    In the same line of thoughts :

    Let's say i'm a 20th level spellthief :
    • Can i stab myself to canibalize my 3 remaining 3rd level spells, so i can cast meteor swarm the next time i spellstrike something ?


    You might need to reword the spellcasting block to avoid those issues.

    Besides, casting spells only as a mean to increase "damage throughput" seems a bit over the top, won't the spellthief need spells like invisibility, fly, or teleport ?

    • Maybe a reduced spell numbers, but larger spell list ?
    • Maybe choose known spells like sorcerers (still with limitations) ?
    • Maybe allow casting of spells without spellstrike but with another limitation (like a concentration check) ?
    Last edited by Delegreg; 2011-04-26 at 12:09 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Stolen spells never required spellstrikes to cast. This was hinted at throughout the Steal Spells ability, but has now had its wording clarified to avoid further confusion. No stabbing of oneself is necessary to open that door.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    I don't mean to be rude, but what about my other two questions (about the "cannibal" spellthief and the wider repertoire) ?

    I figure if I go your spellthief way, I could use the "Extra spell" feat to pick up Invisibility.

    But then I wouldn't be able to cast it without either using spellstrike (stabbing something) or using stolen energy (still means i got to stab something).

    I don't mind the idea of a "closed list" spellthief, but written as it is, it strikes me as a weird mechanism.

    Maybe consider the following :

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    "However, a spellthief cannot cast spells in the usual way; he must first deliver a Spellstrike, and may then cast an appropriate spell as a free action. The spellthief may only cast a single spell per round in this way.In times of need, a spellthief might cast a spell without using spellstrike, but his lack of academic casting knowledge increases the spell's casting time :
    • becomes a full-round action if originally a standard action or less
    • becomes 2 rounds if originally a full-round action
    • increase by 25% for longer casting times

    For the duration of the casting, the spellthief must be completely focused on his task and makes the appropriate Concentration checks (if disturbed) with a -2 incompetence bonus.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    I would add levels to the spells per day table.. Its kinda annoying to have to count. Also, Im very much looking forward to playing my new spellthief.

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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Delegreg View Post
    I don't mean to be rude, but what about my other two questions (about the "cannibal" spellthief and the wider repertoire) ?

    I figure if I go your spellthief way, I could use the "Extra spell" feat to pick up Invisibility.

    But then I wouldn't be able to cast it without either using spellstrike (stabbing something) or using stolen energy (still means i got to stab something).

    I don't mind the idea of a "closed list" spellthief, but written as it is, it strikes me as a weird mechanism.

    Maybe consider the following :
    I agree with this, I'd also probably add some utility spells like invisibility or pass wall, or an extended learning feature like most of the other fixed list casters.

    Edit: I'd also like to suggest adding an acf or two to replace poison. It doesn't work well in some campaigns (i.e. not readily available) and the way it works isn't the best thing in the world (lot's of saves, lots of money for a relitivly low dc, and a long wait between effects [PF poisons on the other hand are much nicer about this]). Something improving stealth and eventually getting hide in plain sight, some weapon styles, or perhaps a slight improvement on casting might work well.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    You may want to include language that keeps you from spellstriking with spell-struck spells; if I stab someone and sac for shocking grasp, I shouldn't get bonus spellstrike damage (which then gets me another spell, actually). Theoretically, as long as I keep choosing touch spells, I can OMG!nuke anything I can land a single strike on.


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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    I'm just going to come out and say that I don't like the neccessity of stabbing for spells. Also I have to agree with Lord_Gareth and add that by your rules, you can stab 1 guy and then nova the room with rays. And there is no utility on that list what so ever (which makes sense in the context of spells only from stabbing, but considering my beef with that concept the point stands). I can't imagine any magically inclined rogue type would not see the benefits of non-blasto magic, your guy strikes me as a very strange take on warmage, as opposed to a magically augmented thief.
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    Default Re: [3.5 Base Class] The Revised Spellthief [PEACH]

    Recently ran a short game with a player playing one of these, however they did request that the spell-casting system be reworked... I fear it may have been op, but we replaced that aspect with Bard spell casting progression with spells known drawn from the wizard/sorcerer list.

    The player enjoyed the class and while it was too low of level to really measure the balance, it didn't disrupt the game at all.
    I thought you may want feedback, and I mention the change to spell-casting only as a note about the feedback itself. I love the chassis though, and will probably continue to use it and recommend it to my players, the next time I have some.

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