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    Barbarian MD's Avatar

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    Default Converting [Tome] Abilities into [Epic] Feats (WIP, PEACH)

    Alright, so I love some of the Frank and K [Tome] class features, but there are very few DMs that allow the material into their campaigns. So here's what I want to do: I want to adapt these abilities into feats, and balance them against other material on this board in the hope that they'll see the light of play. I'm looking for extra pairs of eyes to tell me if they're balanced or not. Note that I'm not trying to balance these against Core, nor am I trying to balance them against WotC epic feats. I'm trying to balance them so that high level melee can use them in games with Tier 1 and 2 characters. Example 1. Example 2. Example 3. Example 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank and K
    Parry Magic (Su): At 8th level, a Samurai may use his Ancestral Weapon to parry magic targeted at him. When the Samurai is targeted by a spell or supernatural ability, he may take an Attack of Opportunity against the targeted effect. If he can make an attack roll against an AC equal to the spell or effect's DC with this Attack of Opportunity, the effect does not affect him.
    Exceptional Weapon Deflection [Fighter] [Epic]
    Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus, ability to deflect arrows with a weapon
    Benefits: While holding a weapon with which you have the Weapon Focus feat, once per round when you would normally be hit with any ranged attack (including spells that require ranged touch attacks) you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.

    Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action.

    Special: A fighter may take this feat as one of her fighter bonus feats.


    Infinite Weapon Deflection [Fighter] [Epic]
    Prerequisites: Dex 25, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus, ability to deflect arrows with a weapon
    Benefits: You may perform any number of deflections each round, as the Deflect Arrows feat.

    Special: A fighter may take this feat as one of her fighter bonus feats.


    Parry Magic [Fighter] [Epic]
    Prerequisites: Exceptional Weapon Deflection OR Exceptional Deflection
    Benefits: When you are targeted by a spell or supernatural ability, you may take an Attack of Opportunity against the targeted effect. Make an attack roll against an AC equal to the spell or effect's DC+15. If successful, the effect does not affect you. If no save is listed for the spell, the spell cannot be parried in this way.

    Special: This feat does not interact with Infinite Deflection. Only one spell or supernatural ability may be deflected in this way during a round.

    A fighter may take this feat as one of her fighter bonus feats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank and K
    Blade of Devastation (Su): At 10th level, the Samurai may attack enemies within his reach through objects and walls, his Ancestral Weapon automatically destroying any unattended object or wall in the way with a Hardness less than 20. As a result, enemies do not gain cover bonuses against an attacking Samurai. This effect can also pierce force effects.

    As a standard action, he can also destroy unattended objects of any Hardness with a successful Ancestral weapon attack, or dispel up to a 10' by 10' section of a [force] effect.

    Cut Magic (Su): At 12th level, a Samurai may attack ongoing spell effects by attacking the square they are in for Area of Effect effects or the object or person for targeted effects (which does damage as normal to the object or person). This attack is handled like the Samurai's Parry Magic ability, but it only dispels a 10' by 10' section of an Area of Effect spell or spell-like ability.
    Cut Magic [Fighter]
    Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Strength 21, BAB 15
    Benefits: You may attack a single ongoing spell effect by taking a standard action to attack a square it is in. This attack is handled like the Parry Magic ability, but it only dispels a 10' by 10' section of an Area of Effect spell or spell-like ability.

    The character may also dispel a 10' x 10' section of a [Force] effect by making attacks against an AC of 10 + caster level and dealing at least 50 damage to it.

    Special: A fighter may take this feat as one of her fighter bonus feats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank and K
    Array of Stunts (Ex): A 13th level Fighter may take one extra Immediate Action between his turns without sacrificing a Swift action during his next turn.
    Array of Stunts [Fighter] [Epic]
    Prerequisites: 20 levels in classes that grant Full BAB*
    Benefits: You may take one extra Immediate Action without sacrificing a Swift action during your next turn.
    Special: A fighter may take this feat as one of her fighter bonus feats.
    *Levels of Swordsage or Monk, while not granting Full BAB, also count.
    Last edited by Barbarian MD; 2011-03-06 at 04:15 PM.
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    Default Re: Converting [Tome] Abilities into [Epic] Feats (WIP, PEACH)

    My thoughts:
    Exceptional Weapon Deflection: Should have exceptional deflection as a pre-req. I would also limit this to ray spells myself. There's a lot of exploitability here as you can essentially be immune to all spells if you have a good enough dex check.

    Parry Magic: The AC of the spell is too low. It should be exceptionally difficult to parry a spell without a save (they are designed and balanced towards not having saves), or (as I'd rule) Impossible to parry. In the scheme of things, this should do what weapon deflection does but to area spells and non-ray effects.

    Cut magic: This probably should do something like allow you to take just one attack, and use it as a dispel effect for one magic effect. Depends a lot on the changes to parry magic.

    Array of stunts: Removing the pick one of immediate or swift per round opens up a lot of exploits, as many immediate abilities have the lack of a swift as their balancing factor (and vice versa). Not sure how to prevent that though.

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    Default Re: Converting [Tome] Abilities into [Epic] Feats (WIP, PEACH)

    Array of Stunts helps casters more than melee and is as easily accessed by casters. I think many casters would prefer to take this at 24th, after Epic Spellcasting.

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    Default Re: Converting [Tome] Abilities into [Epic] Feats (WIP, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerusthegreat View Post
    My thoughts:
    Exceptional Weapon Deflection: Should have exceptional deflection as a pre-req. I would also limit this to ray spells myself. There's a lot of exploitability here as you can essentially be immune to all spells if you have a good enough dex check.
    Note that this is not Infinite Deflection, and I've built this so that Infinite Deflection is not available in this tree. This works exactly like Exceptional Deflection--a single, targeted spell per round. The only difference is that you can do it with a weapon.

    I don't want to make Exceptional Deflection a prerequiste, because that adds an extra set of feats to this feat tree, and useless ones at that.

    With those clarifications in mind, does this change your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerusthegreat
    Parry Magic: The AC of the spell is too low. It should be exceptionally difficult to parry a spell without a save (they are designed and balanced towards not having saves), or (as I'd rule) Impossible to parry. In the scheme of things, this should do what weapon deflection does but to area spells and non-ray effects.
    Noted. I was pulling numbers out of the air, because the [Tome] feat had a lower DC, and didn't have a mechanic for no-save spells. If make it so that no-save spells can't be parried, what would you think of the feat?
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    Default Re: Converting [Tome] Abilities into [Epic] Feats (WIP, PEACH)

    Clean up Exceptional Weapon Deflection to mention the 1/round limit. Maybe be plain that it cannot be improved by feats that would otherwise improve deflect arrows (like Infinite Deflection). What are sources of the deflect ability besides deflect arrows?

    As per parry, if you made it so that non-saves couldn't be parried and we figured out a good AC for spells, it would be good in my opinion.

    I do agree about the point that array of stunts would be taken by casters.

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    Barbarian MD's Avatar

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    Default Re: Converting [Tome] Abilities into [Epic] Feats (WIP, PEACH)

    What would be the best way to limit Array of Stunts to a martial character, or at least prevent it from being used with spells.

    EDITS made: Reworded Exceptional Deflection to the core wording, added Infinite Deflection support, added regular Exceptional Deflection as a way to get Parry Magic, specified that Parry Magic didn't get Infinite Deflection support.
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    Default Re: Converting [Tome] Abilities into [Epic] Feats (WIP, PEACH)

    Just explain to the DMs that dnd needed a revamp.... And if they say no, leave unless your willing to play subpar. Amazing how many DMs here dont get it...


    On the subject of converting them, its seems okay but I dont know why they need to be Epic. 15th level is fine.

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    tigerusthegreat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Converting [Tome] Abilities into [Epic] Feats (WIP, PEACH)

    Best way to limit array of stunts would be to use BAB as a requirement, since BAB doesn't increase past lvl 20. Doesn't do anything for gestalt characters though.

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    Barbarian MD's Avatar

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    Default Re: Converting [Tome] Abilities into [Epic] Feats (WIP, PEACH)

    Cut Magic has been made available as a non-epic feat, available at level 15.

    Array of Stunts made available earlier, with a requirement of 20 BAB (exceptions made for monk and Swordsage--anyone else need extra love?)

    Can't imagine most DMs allowing Exceptional Deflection or Parry Magic pre-epic, as they'll want to follow the monk precedent.

    Thoughts? I'd love it if people would just pop in to say "balanced" or "not balanced" so that I can tell if I'm on the righ track.
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    Default Re: Converting [Tome] Abilities into [Epic] Feats (WIP, PEACH)

    Sounds okay. I agree.

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    Default Re: Converting [Tome] Abilities into [Epic] Feats (WIP, PEACH)

    Anyone else? Not even an "I'd allow that in my game" or a "holy crap that's so unbalanced!"
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