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  1. - Top - End - #151
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Pre-order or Pre-purchase

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieMaster View Post
    Hi Giant,

    I am/was very interested in this book, but understood it was a pre-order, not a pre-purchase. I pre-ordered it when it was first announced, but just noticed on my credit card bill that I have already been charged for it, as of March 17th, which is 6 to 10 weeks from the actual release date (assuming it does indeed come out in May).

    How come I have already been billed for the book? Was this an error?
    Really? You didn't notice the bold, red text on the page for the book on ookoodook?
    This product is currently a pre-order; it is scheduled to ship in early May 2011. Payment will be taken at the time the order is placed. Your entire order will ship when all items are available.
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  2. - Top - End - #152
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Nope, I somehow managed to completely miss that text :-)

    It's pretty non-standard for payment to be required when ordering something, so I guess I just wasn't expecting to have to watch out for that. C'est la vie, I guess.

    Still looking forward to the book though :-)

  3. - Top - End - #153
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieMaster View Post
    Nope, I somehow managed to completely miss that text :-)

    It's pretty non-standard for payment to be required when ordering something, so I guess I just wasn't expecting to have to watch out for that. C'est la vie, I guess.

    Still looking forward to the book though :-)
    Look at it this way - so much time will elapse between now and when you get it that when it comes it'll seem free!
    Caractacus

  4. - Top - End - #154
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieMaster View Post
    Nope, I somehow managed to completely miss that text :-)

    It's pretty non-standard for payment to be required when ordering something, so I guess I just wasn't expecting to have to watch out for that. C'est la vie, I guess.
    The entire point of the requirement to preorder is so that too many books won't get printed. People being able to cancel their preorders would defeat the purpose of the exercise.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  5. - Top - End - #155
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieMaster View Post
    Nope, I somehow managed to completely miss that text :-)

    It's pretty non-standard for payment to be required when ordering something, so I guess I just wasn't expecting to have to watch out for that. C'est la vie, I guess.

    Still looking forward to the book though :-)
    By charging people's cards now, the Ookoodook servers don't have to store anyone's credit card information for the next month or so, meaning that it's a lot more secure for both customers and them. As I understand it, that's the primary reason for charging cards immediately.
    Rich Burlew



    The Holiday Ornament and new t-shirts (top) are from CafePress, while the new OOTS book and the new OOTS calendar (bottom) are available for pre-order at Ookoodook.

  6. - Top - End - #156
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ref's Avatar

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Ah, hadn't thought of that. Very clever.
    The abilities of the Force: Control, Alter, Delete.
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  7. - Top - End - #157
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    I ordered the book, can't wait 'til it comes.

  8. - Top - End - #158
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Lightbulb Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    I finally got around to ordering today, and Ookookdook has On the Origin of PC's! Great!

    EDIT: It seems I can't buy them with a debit card. That's too bad. I won't be able to buy them if that's the case.
    Last edited by Asthix; 2011-04-04 at 01:08 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #159
    APE Games in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Just a post to let folks know that the registration problem some of you have had on ookoodook.com should be addressed now.

    Note that it's not necessary to register in order to buy something from the store. You can just check out as a guest and we won't store your info.
    Owner of APE Games.

  10. - Top - End - #160
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Awww I wish I noticed this book sooner. Oh well printing may have started and charity is over but I'm ordering one! And I agree with several people who have mentioned it, new material>90% old material books! (nevertheless I still have all the books except war and XPs).
    The rules of the game are only what the current participants agree they should be, remember this. The rulebook for whatever you play are only suggestions.

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  11. - Top - End - #161
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Quote Originally Posted by WeLoveFireballs View Post
    Awww I wish I noticed this book sooner. Oh well printing may have started and charity is over but I'm ordering one! And I agree with several people who have mentioned it, new material>90% old material books! (nevertheless I still have all the books except war and XPs).
    As per the News post, I'm extending the donation drive until we sell the last of the Paladin Blues copies we found in the warehouse. That retroactively includes any books sold between March 31st and then.
    Rich Burlew



    The Holiday Ornament and new t-shirts (top) are from CafePress, while the new OOTS book and the new OOTS calendar (bottom) are available for pre-order at Ookoodook.

  12. - Top - End - #162
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    As per the News post, I'm extending the donation drive until we sell the last of the Paladin Blues copies we found in the warehouse. That retroactively includes any books sold between March 31st and then.
    Thank you! I was looking at Snips two nights ago and decided to hold off since I had missed the deadline, but in light of this I just placed my preorder.

  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    "Found" Paladin Blues?

    Hmm, I have no idea how you (as in, the printing/selling company) can so easily misplace for so long a big hunk of something printed in such small volume. Especially seeing the author's welfare sort of depends on these books being sold, not lost/misplaced. Do they keep stock of items at all?

    I'd like to hear a story about this one someday, preferably in person
    Above Us Only Sky


  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Seventy five copies is not exactly a "big hunk" of the print run for NCftPB. The print run was in the thousands, if not entering five digits. I think you're underestimating how easy it is to misplace one box of something in a massive warehouse.

    I can probably guess the story:

    "The box was misplaced under a set of something else. It was assumed lost/stolen and forgotten about until we found it while looking through X product/doing an inventory. This sort of thing happens quite often, end of story"

    I don't think you'll ever get an answer, because any discussion about it is between him and APE Games.

  15. - Top - End - #165
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Ted The Bug's Avatar

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Quote Originally Posted by Irbis View Post
    "Found" Paladin Blues?

    Hmm, I have no idea how you (as in, the printing/selling company) can so easily misplace for so long a big hunk of something printed in such small volume. Especially seeing the author's welfare sort of depends on these books being sold, not lost/misplaced. Do they keep stock of items at all?

    I'd like to hear a story about this one someday, preferably in person
    Rich makes his living off of OotS? Always thought that he did work for WotC on the side. Well, shows you how much I know.
    And also, $3,200! Proud to be a part of it, even if that part is pretty small.
    !

  16. - Top - End - #166
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Irbis's Avatar

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfTW View Post
    Seventy five copies is not exactly a "big hunk" of the print run for NCftPB. The print run was in the thousands, if not entering five digits.
    Wait, what?

    Five digits? I don't know in which country you live in, but even in US, the largest comic book market in the world, five digit circulation is unheard of outside Batman-level of popularity for comic books, and that in the case of trade paperbacks, which are significantly more marketable than OotS, and cheaper to boot. Sorry, OotS is good, but compared to flagship titles of US/manga comic books, it's a niche.

    Honestly, I would be very surprised if any OotS book broke four digits, and that if prefaced by '1', if that. Two numbers for comparison - in the whole 2010/11, Batman The Long Halloween (priced $19.99) managed to sell 7000 books. Naruto vol 47 (priced $9.99) managed 6.500. I'd like you to show something supporting your claim that OotS outsells two vastly more popular titles by an order of magnitude.

    The only titles even close to five digits are $2.99, thin monthly comic books, and if someone really managed 5 digits selling OotS, then he is an economic genius larger than Greenspan and Smith combined.

    So, yes, 75 pieces is a big hunk of the printing run.

    I think you're underestimating how easy it is to misplace one box of something in a massive warehouse.
    Oh? Small publishers have... 'massive warehouse'?

    Do you know how much such a thing does cost? Especially in business where margins are paper-thin? Have you ever been in actual printer warehouse? I was, and the largest printer of comic books (pushing dozen+ titles per month) in my country has room sized one. Hardly a place where you can misplace something for more than a five minutes.
    Above Us Only Sky


  17. - Top - End - #167
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Top webcomic readerships DWARF the most popular comics by Marvel or DC. We're talking mid to high 6 figures for comics like OOTS, or Questionable content, with XKCD and Penny Arcade possibly into 7 figures or approaching 8.

    I don't know how much of that translates into sales (and that's Rich's private business), but making a living as a book author pretty much demands regular high 4-figure to low 5-figure sales. Other merchandise might be a very large factor as well and is difficult to estimate. Jeph Jacques of Questionable Content, for example, lives off of and has bought a house on only selling T-shirts promoted via his comic/site.

    But 5 figures is not something I would hesitate to believe for a moment if that's what somebody told me.
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  18. - Top - End - #168
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    I work for a warehouse, and you have no idea how easy it is to misplace stuff.
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  19. - Top - End - #169
    Giant in the Playground Administrator
     
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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Quote Originally Posted by Irbis View Post
    (Factually inaccurate rant)
    There are about 28,000 copies of Paladin Blues in circulation since 2006. It is not the bestselling OOTS book we have ever printed; both the black-and-white books beat it by a fairly large margin, as does Dungeon Crawlin' Fools. ~75 copies represents four boxes, each about 10" x 16" x 8", out of over a thousand such boxes for that one title alone. Ookoodook shares a very large warehouse space with several other companies, where there are, sometimes, several pallets of books. Since the First Printing of Paladin Blues dates from before Ookoodook handled my ordering, they probably were mixed in with a shipment they received but not noticed until now.

    I have no idea what the readership or purchase levels for Marvel or DC titles are, but I would point out that OOTS has a readership online of around three-quarters of a million individuals. That less than 5% of those readers buy any given book is not exactly "economic genius."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted The Bug View Post
    Rich makes his living off of OotS? Always thought that he did work for WotC on the side. Well, shows you how much I know.
    I haven't done any work for WOTC since Dungeonscape was printed in early 2007, and that was only the third book I had worked on. It was never a significant income stream, because it was low-paying work-for-hire (that is, a small lump sum upon completion and no royalties). I've been essentially supporting my family on OOTS since Dungeon Crawlin' Fools came out in 2005.
    Rich Burlew



    The Holiday Ornament and new t-shirts (top) are from CafePress, while the new OOTS book and the new OOTS calendar (bottom) are available for pre-order at Ookoodook.

  20. - Top - End - #170
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    FujinAkari's Avatar

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    That? Right there? That's why we <3 you Rich :)

    Well, one of the reasons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Thank you, FujinAkari.
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  21. - Top - End - #171
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Ted The Bug's Avatar

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Supporting a family just on book/merchandise sales, with no site ads at all? That is awesomeness right there. If I hadn't already preordered already, that would've gotten me to do it.
    !

  22. - Top - End - #172
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Quote Originally Posted by Irbis View Post
    Five digits? I don't know in which country you live in, but even in US, the largest comic book market in the world, five digit circulation is unheard of outside Batman-level of popularity for comic books
    Five digits is 10,000 btw. That's "Ten Thousand". Ten thousand would be a laughably small print run for a Marvel or DC comic book.

  23. - Top - End - #173
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Quote Originally Posted by Irbis View Post
    Two numbers for comparison - in the whole 2010/11, Batman The Long Halloween (priced $19.99) managed to sell 7000 books.
    Not that I need to add anything to the Giant's utter refutation of everything you said, but I would point out that Batman: The Long Halloween was released in trade paperback in 1999, twelve years ago. If it's still selling 7000 copies per year twelve years in, then the total number of sales is going to still dwarf those of any OOTS book. Will Paladin Blues still be selling strong in 2018? Probably not.

    So what we have here is simply a failure to understand the significance of the numbers you quoted.
    Congratulations, you can link to TV Tropes. This does not mean you have special insight into the storytelling process, much less the author's mind. Stories don't need to fit into neat boxes, you know.
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    You not reading the comic isn't going to make this comic any less awesome for all the rest of us.

  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Saw the announcement. Got to digging up a copy of "no cure" and Dragon. Shame I didn't get around to ordering it sooner.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    I haven't done any work for WOTC since Dungeonscape was printed in early 2007, and that was only the third book I had worked on. It was never a significant income stream, because it was low-paying work-for-hire (that is, a small lump sum upon completion and no royalties). I've been essentially supporting my family on OOTS since Dungeon Crawlin' Fools came out in 2005.
    Well, I"m glad you've been able to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Irbis View Post
    Honestly, I would be very surprised if any OotS book broke four digits, and that if prefaced by '1', if that. Two numbers for comparison - in the whole 2010/11, Batman The Long Halloween (priced $19.99) managed to sell 7000 books. Naruto vol 47 (priced $9.99) managed 6.500. I'd like you to show something supporting your claim that OotS outsells two vastly more popular titles by an order of magnitude.
    Those are only the DM figures, you know. Bookstore adds alot to each of those comics, as do internet non-comic shop sales like amazon.

    Further, webocimics are treated more like "comic strips' than "comic books" in terms of readership, and as such have a fair chance of surprisingly high book sales.
    Last edited by turkishproverb; 2011-04-07 at 05:00 AM.
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  25. - Top - End - #175
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Morgan Wick's Avatar

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Despite my misgivings and broke-ness from earlier in the thread, I'm just about to order one of those No Cure copies off a gift card I got at Christmas. My one misgiving now is not being able to order anything else to accelerate a War and XPs reprint (or take advantage of my likely one chance to get this new book).

    (Edit: Or I won't order it because my gift card just barely comes up short to cover the cost of shipping, I can't order off a second card, and I can't figure out what I'm supposed to put for some of the fields anyway - my card has a "message" from the people who gave it to me instead of a name.)
    Last edited by Morgan Wick; 2011-04-07 at 06:24 AM.
    Avatar courtesy azuyomi244.

    98% of the internet has a Myspace. If you're one of the 2% who isn't an emo whiner, show solidarity by putting this in your sig.

    Instead, I have a blog and web site: http://morganwick.com Tweeter: http://twitter.com/morganwick Webcomic (not really OOTS-related): http://morganwick.freehostia.com/webcomic

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  26. - Top - End - #176
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    tassaron's Avatar

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Blah. I want to order this and No Cure (which I've been waiting for for a long time) but I won't have disposable income until August at the earliest. Such bad timing.

  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    As per the News post, I'm extending the donation drive until we sell the last of the Paladin Blues copies we found in the warehouse. That retroactively includes any books sold between March 31st and then.
    That's awesome. Okay, so I've now ordered Paladin Blues and I'd already ordered Dragon Tales two weeks ago. Would it be possible somehow to combine those orders to save on intercontinental shipping costs?
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  28. - Top - End - #178
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Wick View Post
    (Edit: Or I won't order it because my gift card just barely comes up short to cover the cost of shipping, I can't order off a second card, and I can't figure out what I'm supposed to put for some of the fields anyway - my card has a "message" from the people who gave it to me instead of a name.)
    You should try contacting apegamer, he can usually fix stuff like the fields problem. His email is info@apegames.com.

    EDITED for ninja-ing:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    That's awesome. Okay, so I've now ordered Paladin Blues and I'd already ordered Dragon Tales two weeks ago. Would it be possible somehow to combine those orders to save on intercontinental shipping costs?
    He can probably help with that, too.
    Last edited by SPoD; 2011-04-07 at 07:00 AM.
    Congratulations, you can link to TV Tropes. This does not mean you have special insight into the storytelling process, much less the author's mind. Stories don't need to fit into neat boxes, you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Spod has it right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grasilich View Post
    You not reading the comic isn't going to make this comic any less awesome for all the rest of us.

  29. - Top - End - #179
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    biggrin Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    I love the idea of finding a forgotten box of books in a warehouse. I've helped clean out a few storage facilities and all of them had something or other that people misplaced or just had no idea was even there. An example, I took inventory at my school's science lab and found dozens of things that are either now illegal or super dangerous, including five pounds of 30 year old potassium metal (which superoxides and will explode in contact with air.)

    Point is it's easy for even a small warehouse to have several lost boxes of books. Personally, I'd love to search these places for that misplaced merchandise... finding something long lost feels like getting it for free in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by silversaraph View Post
    And then the reverse-reverse happens. And then the universe implodes and creates a gigantic black hole. The end.
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    Yes, I really quoted myself and put it in my signature. You can't honestly say you never thought something you said was so awesome you wanted to make it into a quote and put it in your signature, can you?

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    Okay, maybe you can.


    Why did I buy Teleporking.com? I have no idea. Am I rich yet?

  30. - Top - End - #180
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Ashtar's Avatar

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    Default Re: New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

    In the print run of my dad's first book, the publisher managed to lose 600 copies in a warehouse shuffle. We do know that some of them later turned up on Ebay, though. That hurts, since my dad was not compensated for those lost royalties.

    So it does happen.

    Oh and The Giant, thanks for all the information. I really appreciate knowing there's so many fans out there who got the book.
    Last edited by Ashtar; 2011-04-07 at 03:15 PM.

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