[BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn OOC Thread 15: Eye of the Tiger... Hollow

[Innis Cabal]

Honestly...the reason the game worked well before had nothing to do with a character regestry or anything of the sort. Nor did it have anything to do with 10 Espada and 13 Captains. The first game ran just fine without any of it. And I do mean any of it. The first game ran smoothly without a wiki. Without a character registration...no book work. It's extra work that's certainly nice to have but even -with- all the stuff that seems to be thought of as "Vital" didn't help me a single IOTA when I came back. And I mean a single ounce, it was actually easier to skim the recent OOC and talk to players. Just like we did in the old days when we weren't hemorrhaging players.

This lacks context. It lacks the actual events. Summing everything up in a single line doesn't illustrate the story so far. It gives you a lead in to the actual events itself. It actually seems -more- people are joining up or rejoining without the wiki, without updates to the character reg, without any of the added stuff that was at the start.

If anything, I'd say one of the many reasons (atop those that I've already expressed) wasn't the 10 Espada and the 13 Captains (Which we started with at the original game and it worked well) but it was the added work everyone was asked to do.

[Frozen_Feet]

This lacks context. It lacks the actual events. Summing everything up in a single line doesn't illustrate the story so far. It gives you a lead in to the actual events itself. It actually seems -more- people are joining up or rejoining without the wiki, without updates to the character reg, without any of the added stuff that was at the start.

... and it's so bad because, as people have noted, I've been doing it alone. I've asked multiple times for help, none has been given. And since obviously no-one appreciates or needs the work that has been done, I guess I'll just delete the whole thing.

If anything, I'd say one of the many reasons (atop those that I've already expressed) wasn't the 10 Espada and the 13 Captains (Which we started with at the original game and it worked well) but it was the added work everyone was asked to do.

In the beginning, there wasn't much additional work at all. You should note I was talking very specifically about the original premise of this reboot, which has been shot all to hell since then. The game might still be up, but it has followed the original concept very poorly, and having so many high level people when we weren't supposed to use them directly contributed to that.

I also disagree with the original game working "well" in any sense of the word, for various reasons, many of which you in particular have told me.

[Prime32]

Aid another: Fist-shaking
Craft (wiki) 1d20+4=6

it was actually easier to skim the recent OOC and talk to players. Just like we did in the old days when we weren't hemorrhaging players.
[...]
It actually seems -more- people are joining up or rejoining without the wiki, without updates to the character reg, without any of the added stuff that was at the start.

Two of the people who joined recently referenced the wiki for character ideas... at least one wouldn't have joined at all if there was no easy reference.

The main reason I didn't do more updating myself is because I was only involved in the Mortal World... and didn't entirely understand some of the other plots going on. The second reason was no one wanting to help. I have been adding new threads to the index there, even while inactive.

[Innis Cabal]

... and it's so bad because, as people have noted, I've been doing it alone. I've asked multiple times for help, none has been given. And since obviously no-one appreciates or needs the work that has been done, I guess I'll just delete the whole thing.

This has been my main argument against the whole wiki idea to start with. It made you not want to play because of the work load and frankly that's unfair to -YOU- and no one else. Though deleting it really wouldn't serve much point since it's there and it's not a terrible reference material source. It just...shouldn't be the primary one since it's clear it doesn't work as intended.

In the beginning, there wasn't much additional work at all. You should note I was talking very specifically about the original premise of this reboot, which has been shot all to hell since then. The game might still be up, but it has followed the original concept very poorly, and having so many high level people when we weren't supposed to use them directly contributed to that.

You don't keep flat tires on your car and wonder why you're not moving forward. You change them so your car works as intended. I am of the opinion that the original idea didn't work and it seems supported as...the very people who proposed it didn't even stick to it.

I also disagree with the original game working "well" in any sense of the word, for various reasons, many of which you in particular have told me.

I perhaps mis-spoke. It worked well at the start and up to the Hans storyline though the fissures were appearing before that point. But that's also when the wiki started coming into full swing My point is, when we didn't worry about the wiki and the work load was less on players things actually did run smoother as far as I saw. All the other problems of course nonwithstanding. We don't need to pull up that pile of worms.

TL;DR- When something doesn't work you don't keep doing it expecting the results to change. That is in fact, the definition of insanity.

[Nicklance]

I must admit that while the wiki didn't say a lot about the episodes and stories so far but still offers quite some information, the character database on the other hand is very useful as a gauge on the capabilities and abilities of characters at their respective tiers.

I would not mind filling in my character's data into the wiki, but I'm slow to learn how to do wiki entries and am facing a lot of issues in life that make me too lazy to handle more new stuffs for now.

With regards to the story, I feel that all I needed, was just to read the entire thread which I will post in, just for a feel of the events currently in play. And perhaps the problem of the freeform, and not with you guys, was that I could feel the disjointed posts trying to come together, its good, and very impressive, since I have never seen pbps last more than a year. You guys seem to have accumulated enough stuff to last two.

When Kuroimaken and Prime32 tried to recruit me, I expressed my concern for the Forgotten Realms-like density of material that I might be forced to grind through, or the sheer Expanded Universe-kind of stuff that I have to know before I could dive into the game. Both of them have kindly told me that this would not be the case. I'm thankful for that, but in return I try whenever I can to read all the past threads. I've yet to start, since I'm shuttling around at my cousin's funeral. But once everything settles in, I would have a proper desktop to work in.

But yeah, overall I'm having a heck of a lot of fun. I apologize if I am having fun at the expense of the hard work behind the scenes. If there is anything I could do to help, please let me know. Once I have everything handled, I will help out too.

[Frozen_Feet]

This has been my main argument against the whole wiki idea to start with. It made you not want to play because of the work load and frankly that's unfair to -YOU- and no one else. Though deleting it really wouldn't serve much point since it's there and it's not a terrible reference material source. It just...shouldn't be the primary one since it's clear it doesn't work as intended.

If you think the wiki was the reason I lost my motivation, you'd be wrong. It's why I'm angry now, but ultimately it's just a contributing factor. No, my main grief has been with trying to keep people interested in this game despite interpersonal conflicts, and keep myself interested in the game when those players I most relied on cease to be around. You should know what I'm talking about, and you know full well it has jack and squat to do with the wiki or any "additional work".

[Innis Cabal]

If you think the wiki was the reason I lost my motivation, you'd be wrong. It's why I'm angry now, but ultimately it's just a contributing factor. No, my main grief has been with trying to keep people interested in this game despite interpersonal conflicts, and keep myself interested in the game when those players I most relied on cease to be around. You should know what I'm talking about, and you know full well it has jack and squat to do with the wiki or any "additional work".

I'm putting my foot in my mouth today, forgive me as I slowly let the caffeine crawl through my blood system.

I didn't mean to imply it was the sole reason, or the main one either. I don't claim to know what you're going through on a day to day or even game level

And yes, I do know what you're talking about, but regardless of the fact I'm back, it's been like what? Five months? Bloody get over it man, you didn't even take me to dinner and a movie or anything

I must admit that while the wiki didn't say a lot about the episodes and stories so far but still offers quite some information, the character database on the other hand is very useful as a gauge on the capabilities and abilities of characters at their respective tiers.

I would not mind filling in my character's data into the wiki, but I'm slow to learn how to do wiki entries and am facing a lot of issues in life that make me too lazy to handle more new stuffs for now.

With regards to the story, I feel that all I needed, was just to read the entire thread which I will post in, just for a feel of the events currently in play. And perhaps the problem of the freeform, and not with you guys, was that I could feel the disjointed posts trying to come together, its good, and very impressive, since I have never seen pbps last more than a year. You guys seem to have accumulated enough stuff to last two.

When Kuroimaken and Prime32 tried to recruit me, I expressed my concern for the Forgotten Realms-like density of material that I might be forced to grind through, or the sheer Expanded Universe-kind of stuff that I have to know before I could dive into the game. Both of them have kindly told me that this would not be the case. I'm thankful for that, but in return I try whenever I can to read all the past threads. I've yet to start, since I'm shuttling around at my cousin's funeral. But once everything settles in, I would have a proper desktop to work in.

But yeah, overall I'm having a heck of a lot of fun. I apologize if I am having fun at the expense of the hard work behind the scenes. If there is anything I could do to help, please let me know. Once I have everything handled, I will help out too.

We're glad to have you

[Frozen_Feet]

@Innis: I did get over it, haven't exactly bugged you about it lately, eh? However, since in-game only a week or so has passed, much of what was relevant five months ago will become relevant again now that you are here.

Or, in other words: Takeshi could still reasonably end up imbibing Sayuri's gift sake, which will complicate his life tremendously, at least what comes to alcohol. Also, his stunt has practically guaranteed that Sayuri will hunt him down personally to see him dead.

[Innis Cabal]

@Innis: I did get over it, haven't exactly bugged you about it lately, eh? However, since in-game only a week or so has passed, much of what was relevant five months ago will become relevant again now that you are here.

Nope, but you brought it up -now- so you didn't just forget it. I understand I'm wanted but hey, it's a curse I take willingly.

Or, in other words: Takeshi could still reasonably end up imbibing Sayuri's gift sake, which will complicate his life tremendously, at least what comes to alcohol. Also, his stunt has practically guaranteed that Sayuri will hunt him down personally to see him dead.

The former doesn't seem like it's going to happen. The latter was considered before I posted it. All the girls want Takeshi.

[Frozen_Feet]

Yuuta still likely has the sake somewhere. What are the chances of Takeshi not trying to take a sip?

[Nicklance]

If Sayuri and Aya finds Takeshi at the same time. Its going to be...tense.

[KnightDisciple]

The wiki is handy, but the fact remains it's another site entirely that I don't typically have open in my browser. With Characters, I think the Registry is just as good or better, because it's right here, and we don't need an extra account to modify it. Linking is a bit easier, too.

Having some form of registry is good; it lets us look through for a character who's not often introduced, or who we haven't met before. And having people set down their characters' abilities is a good thing as well; it at least somewhat helps prevent fights of "yes I can" "no you can't", or someone trying to say they can suddenly conjure a million swords, even though they've never displayed the power.

"The Story So Far" seems like it might be more trouble than it's worth. I know that most nights, I can manage the motivation to post, but not to go upkeep a wiki on another page. I do work a normal job, after all.

As for "low level adventures" versus "high powered characters", I think it's a false dichotomy. We should be able to do both. All we need to do is not dump the high powered characters right in the lap of the lower-powered ones (like, I dunno, dumping an Espada in the middle of the city, and having him just run around).

With the schoolkids, things stalled a bit because Callos leaving left us with a "plot gap". Strawberryman stepped up, offering to run a similar plot. But things are kind of distracted by Sereg right now. I think we should try to get that kidnap plot going again soon. I know the stuff with Kaito is wrapped up for the immediate term. We should be able to wrap up the fracas downtown soon, and work from there for "aftermath". At that point, we get that little plot rolling, and transition from there to the Samsara.

I propose this because I'd like to give Kaito more In-Character experience fighting with his powers before he gets tangled up with the Samsara (who, going by Cassandra as an example, are pretty potent).

Meanwhile, Soul Society and Las Noches will be shifting, consolidating, and rebuilding, I imagine.

[riccaru]

The wiki is handy, but the fact remains it's another site entirely that I don't typically have open in my browser. With Characters, I think the Registry is just as good or better, because it's right here, and we don't need an extra account to modify it. Linking is a bit easier, too.

Having some form of registry is good; it lets us look through for a character who's not often introduced, or who we haven't met before. And having people set down their characters' abilities is a good thing as well; it at least somewhat helps prevent fights of "yes I can" "no you can't", or someone trying to say they can suddenly conjure a million swords, even though they've never displayed the power.

"The Story So Far" seems like it might be more trouble than it's worth. I know that most nights, I can manage the motivation to post, but not to go upkeep a wiki on another page. I do work a normal job, after all.

As for "low level adventures" versus "high powered characters", I think it's a false dichotomy. We should be able to do both. All we need to do is not dump the high powered characters right in the lap of the lower-powered ones (like, I dunno, dumping an Espada in the middle of the city, and having him just run around).

With the schoolkids, things stalled a bit because Callos leaving left us with a "plot gap". Strawberryman stepped up, offering to run a similar plot. But things are kind of distracted by Sereg right now. I think we should try to get that kidnap plot going again soon. I know the stuff with Kaito is wrapped up for the immediate term. We should be able to wrap up the fracas downtown soon, and work from there for "aftermath". At that point, we get that little plot rolling, and transition from there to the Samsara.

I propose this because I'd like to give Kaito more In-Character experience fighting with his powers before he gets tangled up with the Samsara (who, going by Cassandra as an example, are pretty potent).

Meanwhile, Soul Society and Las Noches will be shifting, consolidating, and rebuilding, I imagine.

The post rate went up tremendously during the time Sereg was in the mortal world. Also, Draken said we could do what we wanted and wished we'd have more initiative. We already have Dynamic steel and the gang running around, along with Hibiki and the other teachers. Sereg didn't even touch any of the children, so that wasn't actually an issue. He's gone now anyway, so what's done is done.

On that note, is a garganta point A to point B, or could Sereg use the garganta Geister opened to go to the former location of his palacio?

[Draken]

We tend to go with it being point A to point B, most of the time.

Garganta is, however, a tunnel through a massive empty plane. So Sereg could go through the small extra effort of opening his own secondary tunnel through the void to reach whatever point of Las Noches he feels like. Von Geister's will open at the foot of the citadel.

[Innis Cabal]

If Sayuri and Aya finds Takeshi at the same time. Its going to be...tense.

This...this is an understatement so fatal I think I might go hide under my bed.


Also: I don't know if Yuuta even came with Takeshi. I suppose I should ask Hadrian...

[Frozen_Feet]

As for "low level adventures" versus "high powered characters", I think it's a false dichotomy. We should be able to do both. All we need to do is not dump the high powered characters right in the lap of the lower-powered ones (like, I dunno, dumping an Espada in the middle of the city, and having him just run around).

It's not a false dichtomy simply for the reason that the balance between those characters is skewed to the point where we can't expect them to interact reasonably. Which was the very thing we wanted to avoid. Whether the situation will correct itself in one manner or another, or whether it needs correcting anymore are another things entirely, but at this point we should plain admit it that this game has failed in many of the things it originally hoped to achieve, for better or for worse.

EDIT: Because I need to sleep before going to karate, I'll leave reading Mortal World for tomorrow. I'll see about what to do with Yui, Mihail and Co then.

@Wahrheit: Nasumi and Magatsu going for that field picnic is still on, if you want to.

@tgva8889: We can settle what exactly happened between Hannibal and Taiki in a flashback, if you want to. Sorry for bailing at such an inopportune moment. I suggest we do it in PMs, instead of the main thread, though.

[Zarah]

Wheeeeelp, with so many new and old faces showing up to give the game a jump-start, I'm pretty sure some of you saw this one coming. Nevertheless, I am considering putting my hat back into the ring with some new plot ideas. Some big ones. Ones big enough that they're going to require a bit of approval before I go ahead with them. I hate spilling the beans on my ideas like this, but I don't have much of a choice in this case.


First is something a little tamer. What's the opinion on rogue Zanpakutou spirits as characters? I'm not talking about anything Muramasa-scaled, but just Zanpakutou spirits that have been separated from their masters somehow and now wander the world looking for a place to fit in.

Second is something that's far more grand... and will also probably take some convincing. But I have to ask what the state of Hell is first. Has anything been done with it? Do you guys want anything done with it? I've been toying with the idea of a faction of "endgame villains" based out of Hell that would appear much further down the line. I've got more information on them that I plan to post, but I'd like to get an answer about Hell first.


Also, hi.

[Innis Cabal]

First is something a little tamer. What's the opinion on rogue Zanpakutou spirits as characters? I'm not talking about anything Muramasa-scaled, but just Zanpakutou spirits that have been separated from their masters somehow and now wander the world looking for a place to fit in.

We've discussed this but I figure I'll come out and say I support this idea, and even have a character in mind if you'll accept it

[Kuroimaken]

Wow, I throw my belated b-day party and suddenly Frozen's back.

[KnightDisciple]

First is something a little tamer. What's the opinion on rogue Zanpakutou spirits as characters? I'm not talking about anything Muramasa-scaled, but just Zanpakutou spirits that have been separated from their masters somehow and now wander the world looking for a place to fit in.

I generally lean towards unattached Zanpakutou spirits being something that's not really possible. If it is, it takes something so drastic, you've only got one or two, if that. They might be mostly-independent of thought, but they're still ultimately sectioned-off pieces of the souls of Shinigami, intrinsically bound to said Shinigami. As cool as the spirit designs in the anime arc were, I prefer a world where you can't even easily manifest a spirit in the real world outside of very focused training. Otherwise, why couldn't they be manifested for a battle (outside of a Bankai or something where that's the specific power)?

While it kinda-sorta fits the overall setting, I'm not sure I'm super-keen on the idea.

Second is something that's far more grand... and will also probably take some convincing. But I have to ask what the state of Hell is first. Has anything been done with it? Do you guys want anything done with it? I've been toying with the idea of a faction of "endgame villains" based out of Hell that would appear much further down the line. I've got more information on them that I plan to post, but I'd like to get an answer about Hell first.

...Do we really need to bring autonomous forces of Hell into this? And do we actually want some sort of distinct "endgame"? We saw how well that worked in the last game.
Beyond that, I figure adding another whole dimension's worth of characters is really spreading the pool thing. We're currently strung thin in a lot of areas already. Do we need to spread it out further?

EDIT: Another reason I'd say "no" to Hell being a faction: If they're a faction, why not introduce an "equal but opposite" faction? I mean, HM and SS balance each other, and the MW pretty much balances itself, and/or is kind of the "middle ground" for HM and SS. Hell adds another "cardinal direction" as it were, begging the question of what might lay in the opposite direction.

[Shades of Gray]

Spoiler

Show

I generally lean towards unattached Zanpakutou spirits being something that's not really possible. If it is, it takes something so drastic, you've only got one or two, if that. They might be mostly-independent of thought, but they're still ultimately sectioned-off pieces of the souls of Shinigami, intrinsically bound to said Shinigami. As cool as the spirit designs in the anime arc were, I prefer a world where you can't even easily manifest a spirit in the real world outside of very focused training. Otherwise, why couldn't they be manifested for a battle (outside of a Bankai or something where that's the specific power)?

While it kinda-sorta fits the overall setting, I'm not sure I'm super-keen on the idea.

...Do we really need to bring autonomous forces of Hell into this? And do we actually want some sort of distinct "endgame"? We saw how well that worked in the last game.
Beyond that, I figure adding another whole dimension's worth of characters is really spreading the pool thing. We're currently strung thin in a lot of areas already. Do we need to spread it out further?

EDIT: Another reason I'd say "no" to Hell being a faction: If they're a faction, why not introduce an "equal but opposite" faction? I mean, HM and SS balance each other, and the MW pretty much balances itself, and/or is kind of the "middle ground" for HM and SS. Hell adds another "cardinal direction" as it were, begging the question of what might lay in the opposite direction.

+1 on all counts, really. I'm not too keen on either of those ideas, and is moving away from the direction we're trying to go with this mini-revival. We want fewer forces involved, and fewer structured faction.

[strawberryman]

While I'm not down on the concept of new factions, I think for now there's plenty on the table for everyone except Hueco Mundo.

[Kuroimaken]

I generally lean towards unattached Zanpakutou spirits being something that's not really possible. If it is, it takes something so drastic, you've only got one or two, if that. They might be mostly-independent of thought, but they're still ultimately sectioned-off pieces of the souls of Shinigami, intrinsically bound to said Shinigami. As cool as the spirit designs in the anime arc were, I prefer a world where you can't even easily manifest a spirit in the real world outside of very focused training. Otherwise, why couldn't they be manifested for a battle (outside of a Bankai or something where that's the specific power)?

While it kinda-sorta fits the overall setting, I'm not sure I'm super-keen on the idea.


...Do we really need to bring autonomous forces of Hell into this? And do we actually want some sort of distinct "endgame"? We saw how well that worked in the last game.
Beyond that, I figure adding another whole dimension's worth of characters is really spreading the pool thing. We're currently strung thin in a lot of areas already. Do we need to spread it out further?

EDIT: Another reason I'd say "no" to Hell being a faction: If they're a faction, why not introduce an "equal but opposite" faction? I mean, HM and SS balance each other, and the MW pretty much balances itself, and/or is kind of the "middle ground" for HM and SS. Hell adds another "cardinal direction" as it were, begging the question of what might lay in the opposite direction.

The answer should be obvious. I otherwise agree with your points, though.

Perhaps there isn't need specifically for rogue Zanpakutou spirits. Several legends of Japanese lore come to mind such as the bakeneko, the nekomata, and the kitsune - animals who "ascended" to the position of spirits on account of their long lives and/or wisdom. We could use more unusual characters, but the whole rogue Zanpakutou thing is kinda... iffy.

Heck, in the anime arc the only reason Muramasa was even able to manifest in the physical world was because that was kinda his Bankai schtick.

[Innis Cabal]

Well, as it stands I guess I can open this up. For the record this is -not- the case of how things are now.

I honestly -liked- the idea of rogue Zanpakuto spirits in the anime, and knowing that Tite was on board with it...honestly made me like it a whole lot more. Perhaps Zarah's character concept works similar to how things moved in the anime. I suppose I also like and support the idea because originally Takeshi was going to be the zanpakuto spirit of Chen so it isn't a new or undesired idea on my part.

[tgva8889]

@tgva8889: We can settle what exactly happened between Hannibal and Taiki in a flashback, if you want to. Sorry for bailing at such an inopportune moment. I suggest we do it in PMs, instead of the main thread, though.

Don't care, but if you'd like to have Taiki rehash the scene when he wakes up for the requisite parties, I'm totally all for that. I am glad that you have returned.

Also, sorry about the Wiki. But honestly, it's not a big deal. I don't use the Wiki for anything but looking up Kido (because that has a list of the available Kido) and looking up Division descriptions. Everything else I just ask or check Registry.

Zarah, welcome back. I myself am not automatically opposed to them. It depends on how well they are done, and why they need to be done that way instead of some other way.

[InyutheBeatIs]

Hello everybody!! Welcome back!

@Zarah: Personally, I have no problem with zanpakuto spirits.

[The Librarian]

Yay! Zarah's Back!

I looked at your proposals man. I would be totally on board with the 1st idea, however I'm a bit hesitant of the 2nd idea. That said, I would like to at least hear a bit more about your idea for the 2nd plan.

[Kasanip]

First is something a little tamer. What's the opinion on rogue Zanpakutou spirits as characters? I'm not talking about anything Muramasa-scaled, but just Zanpakutou spirits that have been separated from their masters somehow and now wander the world looking for a place to fit in.

I would play one very quickly.

Second is something that's far more grand... and will also probably take some convincing. But I have to ask what the state of Hell is first. Has anything been done with it? Do you guys want anything done with it? I've been toying with the idea of a faction of "endgame villains" based out of Hell that would appear much further down the line. I've got more information on them that I plan to post, but I'd like to get an answer about Hell first.

Like last time, I very much disagree to use such an idea.

[Draken]

Rogue zanpakutou spirits are ok in my book, as long as they don't go around multiplying.

Ahem.

I once described a hell that was villainous in nature... Matter of fact, it was a cesspit of cruelty for the sake of cruelty and depravity as its own goal. A rather magnificent essay, if I might say. And it deeply disturbed kasanip.

Oh, the innocence, so loveable.

I will agree that hell should stay simply "the place where evil mortal souls go", and maybe the place where onis come from. If I feel like bringing those two back.

[Innis Cabal]

I honestly felt that the Hell from last game was fairly tame, boring and derivative. That may just be me though.