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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Quote Originally Posted by king.com View Post
    If a guardsman wants to take both I would absolutely let him, would give him an interesting shot. Also Pure Faith is what allows you to purchace faith powers. Its like getting the Psyker trait. You cant buy it, only get it. Considering how little a guardsman would really have worth purchasing without branching out too much, 500xp isnt a crazy price, get a couple in a single tree and your set anyway. Personally i think the Adept gets some great advances too from the Sister of Battle alternate rank 1s.
    Well, what lets you buy Faith Powers is the Faith Power talent, actually, which has Pure Faith as a prerequisite. I'd probably let a guardsman with Pure Faith buy Faith Power as an elite advance anyway though.

    And yeah, I forgot adepts. All those alternate ranks are really nice.
    Last edited by Ranos; 2011-04-17 at 05:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranos View Post
    Well, what lets you buy Faith Powers is the Faith Power talent, actually, which has Pure Faith as a prerequisite. I'd probably let a guardsman with Pure Faith buy Faith Power as an elite advance anyway though.
    Yea thats the point of the background package. Its a nice idea if you happened to have rolled a lot of fate points at start.
    Last edited by king.com; 2011-04-17 at 05:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saldre View Post
    you know whats worse than a regular Daemon-host? A Daemon-host with a Plasma Cannon.
    Quote Originally Posted by RandomLunatic
    "Eh. I do to 'Mechs what Simon does to American Idol contestants."

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Quote Originally Posted by king.com View Post
    Why cant force bolts be dodged? They are attacks aren't they?
    It's an attack yes, but it's not a ranged attack as per the RAW, therefore the Dodge skill can't dodge it; it can only dodge melee and ranged attacks. Ranged attacks are defined as having Ballistic Skill Tests.

    Also, why wouldnt you use the running leap rules in combination with a charge action?
    Because you can't by the RAW because it doesn't permit using these actions in combination unless a creature has a special talent or trait; a running leap is a Full Action, and a Charge is a Full Action; that'd technically be two Full Actions.

    Even if you could though, they're extremely unlikely to gain enough vertical distance to get within striking range of the Psyker since he's 5 meters up, and vertical distance = horizontal distance / 4. Running Leap distance = SB meters, or 8 in this case, so they gain 2 meters of vertical height of the required 5, which is not enough.

    Forget jumping up; if they succeed on the Agility Test, they can only ascend 1.6 meters off the ground, and need an impossibly high number of degrees of success to close the remaining 3.4 meters of distance.

    Assassin BS 65 with Mighty Shot, Dual Shot, TWF(Ballistics), Ambidextrous, Gunslinger. Firing two Autopistols at full auto with Man-Stopper rounds, recoil gloves . Point Blank.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCP View Post
    Surrealistik: I donít know why youíre citing the fluff passages of the book as if they give a definitive answer. You said it yourself: ďto me, this implies [...]Ē
    Yes, it's fluff, but it does give a definitive breakdown of what stuff like Income actually represents.

    There is no hard-and-fast ruling you can adhere to, thereís just a setting you can interpret. Yes, a Psyker with Divine Shot and a lascannon will destroy things, no-oneís denying that. All that Iím pointing out is that itís perfectly possible for the GM to say ďno lascannons for the psykerĒ and stay within the bounds of reasonable IC behaviour. Itís not even a quirk of my own style: itís how the Imperium behaves in a lot of the background and in the tabletop game.
    First off that's a completely subjective interpretation of the universe. Second, again, this is a senior acolyte whom is worth at least a modicum of the Inquisitor's consideration and resources; a Lascannon is such a modicum, and again, it plays to a known strength of his Acolyte. If it makes sense for the mission (i.e. they can expect daemons, sorcerers, and other powerful opponents) and subtlety isn't the order of the day, I don't see any logical reason for not giving the Psyker his Lascannon.

    Sure, you can say that by rank 7 your psyker should be trusted with some kit. Iíd actually agree, but Iíd disagree on scale. A rank 7 psyker in my opinion would be OK asking his Inquisitor for a nice bolt pistol, or maybe a force sword. Stuff appropriate to his vocation. The Imperium is a very rigidly stratified society, and just because someone can do something well doesnít mean they get given the kit to do it, any more than a medieval serf who was an excellent horse-rider got admitted to the joust. To me, giving an Acolyte a lascannon is like giving an MI5 agent or a plain-clothes police officer a field gun: it might be very killy but it just doesn't make sense.
    An acolyte's role is a diverse one; they do virtually everything under the sun, from investigations to clean up. In short, they do everything as directed. Yes, they tend towards the former, but the latter falls under their purview as well, and for such an assignment giving a Lascannon to a senior imperial agent that can make excellent use of it makes sense if discretion is not required. In most cases a simple Meltagun will be sufficient, but when you have especially resilient and/or heavily armoured foes, and the Inquisitor knows this, it's perfectly legitimate to break out the biggest guns; that's what they're for.


    Thereís a sliding scale between ďbuy everything with your salaryĒ and ďthe Inquisitor will give you anything you wantĒ that is entirely the GMís remit to decide. Your first claim in the thread was that psykers are game-breakingly overpowered: I am merely pointing out that at the GMís discretion, this one instance of overpowered behaviour isnít actually a problem Ė and that without the assumed availability of heavy weapons, Divine Shot is perfectly balanced. It seems to me that you are putting things forward with a funny perspective: first you say that psykers are game-breaking, but then you adamantly refuse any suggestion that moderates the excesses you point out, even when it patently breaks no rules. Are you invested in playing the game as a fun group, or in just showing everyone how awesome your psyker is? Because I donít think thatíd be terribly fun for the blunts in the party.
    First off, I'm not 'refusing' suggestions, I'm simply pointing out that their reasoning is flawed, and is based on false assumptions, like Income is your official Inquisitorial pay or 'allowance' for purchasing munitions, or a senior Rank 7 agent doesn't have the right to requisition high level mission appropriate gear.

    The OP is asking for opinions on how Dark Heresy is as a system, so I think thatís all I have to say on this matter. I run my group this way, and they seem to have a lot of fun. Theyíre currently at Rank 4, and so far I have observed little of what youíve said to be true: the Guardsman is actually one of their most competent combatants, and the psyker has not broken the game but rather been very enjoyable to have around due to the way his powers throw GM assumptions for a spin (i.e. using Wall Walk when threatened with a suddenly-appearing precipice). Perhaps as they get more powerful Iíll see more of what you were talking about: whatever happens, though, Iím certain that I wonít be giving them personal lascannons, and Iím fairly sure they arenít expecting them either.
    Of course the Psyker hasn't broken the game yet; he hasn't yet crossed that threshold which I explicitly stated (also a badly built Psyker never will).

    Preternatural Awareness is a half action to manifest. Taking actions requires initiative to have been rolled. The Genestealer has filleted you already. This is what I meant by it being a silly test: the 10x10m room concept strips all context. It even invalidates my original point of saying "go on, Divine Shot him to death" - I really only said it for comedic effect.
    It's a sustain power, as in you obviously have it active ahead of time.

    Of course, if you want to construct a more sensible test, then yes, maybe the psyker walked into the room with Preternatural Awareness sustained. The psyker youíve statted out, if I read him rightly, can cast PA at an average roll of 6 + 22 + 2 = 30, giving 2 levels of overbleed and a total bonus of +18 to his Initiative roll - he needs to add 9 to his casting roll to get another +6, which is moving towards the very slim end of the bell curve. It gives him a chance (as opposed to the previous certainty that the Genestealer would win initiative), but unless his AB is 6 or higher, the Genestealer still has the higher bonus.
    No. It's ([6 (WP) + 6 (invocation because you may as well) + 22 (Psi 4) + 2 (Power Well) + 2 (Discipline Focus)] - 9) / 10= 2.9. So +18-24 Initiative. If you have a WP Bonus of 7, +28 Initiative. Add your Agi modifier + 2 for Paranoia (I forgot to take this in the above build, it's a great talent, especially for a high Awareness Psyker).

    And of course, if we are constructing a more true-to-game test... then the Genestealer too ought to have abilities that it would be using prior to an encounter in play. Like stealth. Of course, you can say that you want Detect Life or some such power sustained as well... and thatís when as GM Iíd have to ask why, because IC you donít know heís there. And then we get into the issue of whether the psyker is walking around with Detect Life sustained because heís paranoid about this particular environment, and before you know it we need to create an entire actual game with a plotline and everything in order to fully specify all the parameters. This entirely loses the point of the original thought experiment, but it does illustrate one thing: your psyker can have a Batman Defence, where he tries to be maximally prepared, but the GM doesnít need to bother with that kind of planning. He can see exactly what youíre doing, and plan accordingly (Schroedingerís GM?).
    You do realize that with Preternatural Awareness (nevermind Sense Presence), the Psyker is likely to spot the Genestealer right? He's the best class in the game bar none at detection. Fast +20 Awareness, cheap Perception advances, and another +20 bonus to Awareness from Preternatural. That Genestealer is as good as spotted. Sense Presence and Preternatural Awareness also have the added advantage of being disposable; once they've served their purpose he can dismiss them in combat so they don't impede his Psi rolls.

    Also, of course the GM can ad-hoc any character to death; that doesn't negate however, the fact of the Psyker's runaway versatility and power as compared to the other PCs.

    Iíd offer to run you through some kind of PBP gauntlet to prove or disprove some of these points, but I suspect you wouldnít really be interested. I think Iím done.
    Not really, especially given that it'd take forever to come to an agreement on what's fair and unfair. Obviously there's a level of overwhelming force that even the Psyker build I proposed can't deal with.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    When you have especially resilient and/or heavily armoured foes, and the Inquisitor knows this, it's perfectly legitimate to break out the biggest guns; that's what they're for.
    And if that's the kind of game you want to play, you can buy it here. The Inquisition's biggest guns are a lot bigger than even the bizzare image of a psyker with a lascannon.

    As I said, I'm not going to continue the argument: I think I've expressed my point and I hope the OP and others can appreciate it. Safe to say, you say my interpretation is subjective, I agree. The thing is, so is everything you're saying about the 'logical' way for the Inquisitor to hand out lascannons. That's logical in the colloquial sense, to you. It's not a rigorously logical argument in the sense of formal logic (as you might be able to formulate if we were talking about a rules issue), and it doesn't float my boat. You say I've based my availability arguments on 'false assumptions' - the truth is, I've just based them on assumptions different from yours, and you can't demonstrate them to be objectively false any more than I can demonstrate them to be objectively true. I'd take a guess, though, that if you polled the various DH players and GMs who've posted in this thread, most of them would find the idea of lascannon-toting psykers a little fishy as well: you might not share my assumptions, but that doesn't mean that they are outliers.

    If you want to play it that way, then that's fine. I'm only objecting to the idea that you can take these highly local examples of your own gaming style and then use them to generalise to the claim that the system is broken because (in part! As I said, no comment on your other psyker-related claims) of the 'fact' that psykers can lascannon everything to death.
    Last edited by LCP; 2011-04-17 at 11:57 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Comments Regarding the Psyker and/Or Dark Heresy Style of Play.

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    I'd further like to point out that the Psyker will more or less -

    1) only be able to kill 1 thing per round with that gun.

    2) Won't be able to fire the gun if something is in melee with him.

    3) The gun is, more or less, easily jam-able.

    4) Is going to become the target of every tom, **** and harry in an encounter, along with his gun.

    5) He can run into monsters quite capable of taking a hit from the gun and surviving just fine. Say an unnatural toughness*3 daemonic monster with 50 or 60 toughness, would be able to soak 36 points of damage (which is above average for the Maximal Plasma Cannon).

    Granted, these monsters are rare and sometimes unique- Still, I doubt that the Psyker will be able to kill one of those just by landing a powerful hit on it (which, frankly, will be the last shot he ever fires).

    All in all, LCP is right- It depends on the type of game you want to play: the system is lenient enough that you can have an Inquisitor say: "I don't want to give the guy who might turn into a daemon-host a Plasma Cannon" Regardless of the fact that his aim is perfect- because you know whats worse than a regular Daemon-host? A Daemon-host with a Plasma Cannon.

    Now- you might say that this is stupid: that with favored of the warp, the odds of a Psyker turning into a daemon host are minimal- well, this is a world where people mobilize armies to hunt down a few rogue psykers in a hive. Exaggerating the threat of chaos is part of the Inquisition's MO.

    Not to mention the Mechanicus- a few warp psychic phenomena cause Machine spirits to rebel: you'd think they would hand out a rare, powerful- and almost holy weapon- to someone who oozes out machine-corrupting essence whenever he wants to casts something?

    Granted, I haven't played a lot of games with any psykers- and I am hosting a game with one right now: a powerful one at that (Rank 5- with a few sorcerer levels stacked on for good measure), seeing as I allowed Point Buy (and completely approved of his background and origin).

    His first Power Roll- he rolls a Nine. Daemon Masked- not a big deal; but still (He only used a single Die!). He might break my game, he might not- I personally don't think he will: he might break -an encounter- sure; but I can easily adjust for the next one (by having the Big Bad Guy send a Blank, for example, to handle the Psyker).

    As for all of the others- "But You can't by Raw", or "Raw doesn't say this" and "Raw doesn't do that" (One example in particular- the dodging of psychic powers); I don't think I have ever seen a system more lenient than Dark Heresy when it comes to giving the control of the mechanics to a Gm- pretty much everything everywhere is more or less left up to the GM's discretion- from the Inquisitor's whims and moods, to the availability of weapons and their price- to the monsters themselves.

    You want to create a trait that lets the Arco-Flagellant Jump and Charge at the same time?

    "Leaping Charge (Trait): The Arco-Flagellant is so strong, its capable of leaping at the end of a charge action."

    There it is- Granted, i am not very technical or wordy when it comes to giving it the appropriate tone; but the idea is there- and the option is there as well- very much like you suggested. Keep in mind that this isn't an excuse to give the GM an "I WIN!" Button- because the Gm's Role isn't to win: its to Entertain.

    Not to mention that the Psyker of yours is casting a whole lot of powers, and sustaining them as well- to maintain his constant bubble of awareness- are you factoring in those points when it comes to his power rolls?


    I personally love the system, lore and general atmosphere of the game. I find it has tremendous possibilities- allowing for a wide range of games; from Call of Cthulhuesque Investigations to kick-in-door style War Scenarios, where your acolytes are pitted against horrifying odds.

    The vastness of the universe is pretty much a green card for you to do what-ever you'd like and create any scenario, setting, even planet- and you can play the game's Grimdarkness straight or have the players question the morality of the Inquisition and the Imperium, all within a single game/campaign.

    So Yeah, I'd definitively recommend it. It has its flaws (like all systems), of course- but nothing that you can't fix in either the spirit of the game, or the spirit of your playing style [Except for Ascension :P But like King.com said earlier in the thread, the game no longer happens at the Individual level- but evolves to a more political, grandeur scheme of things].
    Last edited by Saldre; 2011-04-17 at 07:56 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saldre View Post
    you know whats worse then a regular Daemon-host? A Daemon-host with a Plasma Cannon.

    So Yeah, I'd definitively recommend it. It has its flaws (like all systems), of course- but nothing that you can't fix in either the spirit of the game, or the spirit or your playing style [Except for Ascenscion :P But like someone else said earlier in the thread, the game no longer ahppens at the Individual level- but evolves to a more political, grandeur scheme of things].
    I think that best sums it up, also im stealing that first quote.


    EDIT: Oh also one other thing I like, buy a single book and you have everything you need to run the game, something thats always stopped me from getting into D&D 4e.
    Last edited by king.com; 2011-04-17 at 07:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saldre View Post
    you know whats worse than a regular Daemon-host? A Daemon-host with a Plasma Cannon.
    Quote Originally Posted by RandomLunatic
    "Eh. I do to 'Mechs what Simon does to American Idol contestants."

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Huh, so I just looked in this Ascension side thing and apparently there is a rule for Magos to use intelligence instead of fellowship for peer and good rep prereqs.

    Pretty nice!

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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Quote Originally Posted by WitchSlayer View Post
    Huh, so I just looked in this Ascension side thing and apparently there is a rule for Magos to use intelligence instead of fellowship for peer and good rep prereqs.

    Pretty nice!
    Yea, you may aswell pass this down the line into techpriests.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saldre View Post
    you know whats worse than a regular Daemon-host? A Daemon-host with a Plasma Cannon.
    Quote Originally Posted by RandomLunatic
    "Eh. I do to 'Mechs what Simon does to American Idol contestants."

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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Once my gaming group instigated a house-rule that, for skill rolls outside of combat your relevant stat bonus was doubled (so long as you posessed said skill), things really picked up. It meant that the acolytes could Actually Investigate Things with a good chance of success (in the areas they were supposed to be proficient in), rather than pretty much failing every skill attempt the game put their way (to the point that after a while some players felt it pointless to even try). It really opened up the possibilities for the GM too, enabled him to craft a more 'Storyteller' game.

    As for the arguement of the last 2 pages? Well both viewpoints are of course perfectly plausible, and i'm sure that your mileage will vary on this according to your, and your gaming groups, usual style of play, reffing and take of the rules/fluff. For me though only one of those takes would feel like a Proper Dark Heresy Game and its not the one with the las cannon-ing psyker, and i'm fairly confident the rest of my group would echo that.

    Just my opinion/preference though, nothing more.

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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theo Hammond View Post
    Once my gaming group instigated a house-rule that, for skill rolls outside of combat your relevant stat bonus was doubled (so long as you posessed said skill), things really picked up. It meant that the acolytes could Actually Investigate Things with a good chance of success (in the areas they were supposed to be proficient in), rather than pretty much failing every skill attempt the game put their way (to the point that after a while some players felt it pointless to even try). It really opened up the possibilities for the GM too, enabled him to craft a more 'Storyteller' game.
    But thats the beauty of a session for Rank 1 acolytes. You can be foiled by a chest high wall
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saldre View Post
    you know whats worse than a regular Daemon-host? A Daemon-host with a Plasma Cannon.
    Quote Originally Posted by RandomLunatic
    "Eh. I do to 'Mechs what Simon does to American Idol contestants."

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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    At least Climb, being a basic skill, means that everyone could try and fail together :)

    Before we tweaked it i recall there were six of us trying to get past one single locked door (av difficulty). Three of us had the relevant skills to break-in which, even then, meant a less than 50% chance...and we all failed. So we try to bluff, had a couple of good talkers in the party, but again merely having the skills still mean a less than evens chance (and opposed). Intimidate? Nope. Demolitions? Good God man, don't even joke!

    I think we ended up grenading ourselves in through the wall, because it was actually made of a less tough material than the door...

    But it just felt daft when one of us was (supposedly) an Arbitrator, supposedly used to (or at least presumed capable of) stomping in and arresting baddies. Another was an assasin, supposedly used to (or presumed to be capable of) creeping in and killing baddies(/whomever). Another was a Scum etc etc

    It was amusing to start with but, yes, it got to the point where we'd come up against Another Faintly Challenging Obstacle (what do you mean a Drive test? Argh! We're all gonna die!) and just start despairing.

    I seem to recall the adventure in the main rules having a Plot Book that gave you important clues for how to beat the Big Bad, only you needed several degrees of success at some quite specific skills (at minuses) in order to get said clues - yeah, not gonna happen!

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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Yea people need to remember theres a thing called "situational modifiers" people are meant to be using.

    Picking a door? its not "oh this would be challenging for some shmuk to pick" no...its meant to mean "challenging for someone who knows how to pick locks" If the GM wants the lock to be easy..then hell give you the +20 to the test..which gets you to %50 on average. That of course being a realistic chance for a person unlocking a door.
    Add in proper tools? (+20) and you got a significant chance of success.

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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    At the beginning it did take us a little while to remember that a task of 'average' difficulty actually means you're on +20% (Routine) rather than a straight roll. But even then it felt like if a task truly was Routine for your PC then he/she should be significantly better at it then a 50/50 chance (relevant equipment can add, as you say, but more often than not we found ourself devoid of such equipment - the Tools section of the DH rules wasn't as hefty as we might have liked).

    If i recall right we houseruled it after thinking of classic World of Darkness, in which we had played many a fine investigative game with plebby PCs. In that an 'average' bod would have 2 dots in stat and 2 dots in skills for a total of 4 x d10 for a task in which they presume to be of average skills. Average difficulty started at 6, so they could not only expect to usually succeed but (dice willing) achive 2 successes. Even a moderately challenging task (diff 8) should see 1 success. There is risk of failure, yes, but largely a skilled operative would have some confidence of general accomplishment.

    So in comparing that to the above 50/50 in DH...it didn't quite give us the game we were after / hoping for.

    Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that the system needed this, i wouldn't presume to. It just felt a little too harsh vs the PCs given what we were used to and what we expected. Making the change felt like it better opened up the possibilities of the system for us.

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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    It also helps that, in a lot of cases, the opponents are also shmucks and succeed about as much as you do. Case in point, recently my character tried to hide a commbead on his person so he could call for help later. He didn't have concealment, but it was a basic skill. Rolled 47, 2 degrees of failure.

    But, concealment is an opposed test. The guys searching him were not the best at noticing hidden things, and they failed to find it despite my craptastic roll.

    It also helps that my regular GM prefers to play out speaking encounters, as opposed to just rolling a couple skills and declaring whether or not we fail.
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Aye, for your talkier skills we tend to take a similar route. So long as you've got something relevant on your character sheet skill-wise then generally its fine to play out the scene (in that relevant manner) without having to resort to the dice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saldre View Post
    1) only be able to kill 1 thing per round with that gun.
    Sure, and in cases where you need to kill multiple things, use your Force Barrage. In cases where you need to kill multiple super heavily armoured things, use an Autocannon with Precision Telekinesis.

    2) Won't be able to fire the gun if something is in melee with him.
    So disengage; you can still afford the _Free Action_ (since apparently the act of firing is part of the power) to manifest Divine Shot. Also, with stuff like Float, Wall Walk, and the like, as well as ridiculous Awareness and Sense Presence to never be surprised, what are you doing in melee?

    3) The gun is, more or less, easily jam-able.
    Your weapon can't jam on an attack you don't even roll for.

    4) Is going to become the target of every tom, **** and harry in an encounter, along with his gun.
    If you're packing heavy weapons, you're probably not the only one, so I doubt this. When it comes to crowd control, see Force Barrage.

    5) He can run into monsters quite capable of taking a hit from the gun and surviving just fine. Say an unnatural toughness*3 daemonic monster with 50 or 60 toughness, would be able to soak 36 points of damage (which is above average for the Maximal Plasma Cannon).
    5d10+10 (base) + 5*0.31 (approximate average bonus damage from Righteous Fury per 1d10) = 66.55 average damage - 36 for 30.55 wounds. That's a hell of a lot of damage for a DH level enemy, and almost certainly an instant kill. At the very least it will put virtually any DH opponent into critical damage territory. I am actually hard pressed to find a DH, pre-Ascension enemy that wouldn't one shot or 'critical'.

    All in all, LCP is right- It depends on the type of game you want to play: the system is lenient enough that you can have an Inquisitor say: "I don't want to give the guy who might turn into a daemon-host a Plasma Cannon" Regardless of the fact that his aim is perfect- because you know whats worse than a regular Daemon-host? A Daemon-host with a Plasma Cannon.

    Now- you might say that this is stupid: that with favored of the warp, the odds of a Psyker turning into a daemon host are minimal- well, this is a world where people mobilize armies to hunt down a few rogue psykers in a hive. Exaggerating the threat of chaos is part of the Inquisition's MO.
    It's also stupid because the Lascannon isn't going to make _that_ much more of a difference.

    Not to mention the Mechanicus- a few warp psychic phenomena cause Machine spirits to rebel: you'd think they would hand out a rare, powerful- and almost holy weapon- to someone who oozes out machine-corrupting essence whenever he wants to casts something?
    That's not true at all.

    Granted, I haven't played a lot of games with any psykers- and I am hosting a game with one right now: a powerful one at that (Rank 5- with a few sorcerer levels stacked on for good measure), seeing as I allowed Point Buy (and completely approved of his background and origin).

    His first Power Roll- he rolls a Nine. Daemon Masked- not a big deal; but still (He only used a single Die!). He might break my game, he might not- I personally don't think he will: he might break -an encounter- sure; but I can easily adjust for the next one (by having the Big Bad Guy send a Blank, for example, to handle the Psyker).
    What does this anecdote prove save that your Psyker was unlucky. That said, if he's well built and played, a Psyker with Sorcery probably will do some serious damage the moment he gains access to Favoured of the Warp. Also, it's less that DH Psykers will break the game, so much as they will be heads and shoulders more powerful than everyone else. Legitimately breaking the game is what Psykers do in Ascension.

    As for all of the others- "But You can't by Raw", or "Raw doesn't say this" and "Raw doesn't do that" (One example in particular- the dodging of psychic powers); I don't think I have ever seen a system more lenient than Dark Heresy when it comes to giving the control of the mechanics to a Gm- pretty much everything everywhere is more or less left up to the GM's discretion- from the Inquisitor's whims and moods, to the availability of weapons and their price- to the monsters themselves.
    Sure, you can ad-hoc the Psyker to death; that goes for any character. Again, he's still leaps and bounds more powerful and versatile than other career.

    You want to create a trait that lets the Arco-Flagellant Jump and Charge at the same time?

    "Leaping Charge (Trait): The Arco-Flagellant is so strong, its capable of leaping at the end of a charge action."

    There it is- Granted, i am not very technical or wordy when it comes to giving it the appropriate tone; but the idea is there- and the option is there as well- very much like you suggested.
    He still couldn't reach the Psyker; I guess you'd like to give him a jetpack now.

    Not to mention that the Psyker of yours is casting a whole lot of powers, and sustaining them as well- to maintain his constant bubble of awareness- are you factoring in those points when it comes to his power rolls?
    Preternatural Awareness is disposable; the moment you win initiative, you dismiss it on your turn.

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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theo Hammond View Post
    Aye, for your talkier skills we tend to take a similar route. So long as you've got something relevant on your character sheet skill-wise then generally its fine to play out the scene (in that relevant manner) without having to resort to the dice.
    Sometimes it doesn't even come down to skills, long as the character is acting in a way that fits them. I wouldn't expect a techpriest to have the smoothest tongue around, or much EXP spent on social skills, but even he could manage to convince someone of something if he took the right tack with it.

    Provided he was being true to his character, I wouldn't mind.
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    That's not true at all.
    Tech Scorn, Phenomenon which happens on a 69-71 roll.

    Also, picking Sorcery is rarely an option in a standard DH game.
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    I'm curious, Surrealistik - you have these strong opinions about the style with which you play Dark Heresy. Do you have any stories about your own experiences playing the game? I for one would be interested to hear any anecdotes of how your gaming sessions with such characters have played out, and how your own GM has treated it (unless you GM yourself?).
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Quote Originally Posted by MickJay View Post
    Also, picking Sorcery is rarely an option in a standard DH game.
    Wait what ? There's tons of ways to get sorcery in DH.

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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Most of them require you to be a bit of a higher rank, though, and unless you start high up during character creation, you'd need to have a good IC reason for the character to go down that path.
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Well, obviously you can't have it at rank 1, yeah. As for requiring a particular reason...eh, not really. If you needed to roleplay a reason for every talent you take on-screen, the game wouldn't get very far.

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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranos View Post
    Wait what ? There's tons of ways to get sorcery in DH.
    I think he was more referring to the fact that it's very radical/heretical act and most inquisitors wouldn't allow their acolytes to practice it
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Hiding it is half the fun though
    Much funnier to be a sorcerer right under the nose of a puritan, monodominant inquisitor than a radical who'll let you do whatever anyway.

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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranos View Post
    Well, obviously you can't have it at rank 1, yeah. As for requiring a particular reason...eh, not really. If you needed to roleplay a reason for every talent you take on-screen, the game wouldn't get very far.
    Oh, no, not every talent. But Sorcery is a rather serious thing, and the acolytes of an Inquisitor in particular would have been warned against the lure of Chaos. I wouldn't attach quite such a serious RP requirement to something like Weapon Training, or Rapid Reaction. It just seems to me that Sorcery isn't really something that just anyone could pick up. Malefic Scholar even specifies such a requirement in order to take the alternate rank.
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Recent fluff has the Grey Knights as sorcerers (much to the ire of old-school Daemonhunters players)-

    they're protected from the corruption it brings because "their geneseed carries the gift of the Emperor's own flesh and soul"- thus ensuring sorcery doesn't corrupt them.

    Plus, for the same reason, their souls are "unpalatable" to daemons.
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Well it does kind of make sense. The fluff tends to imply that the Emperor used a lot of sorcery and made some deals with Chaos without being corrupted.
    Of course, it could also be that he WAS, in fact, corrupted by chaos, but damn good at hiding it. And that the grey knights inherited that quality. Hell, that would explain a lot of things.

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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    On the other hand, The Emperor condemned Magnus the Red for practicing forbidden sorcery. It's possible the Emperor was just a really powerful psyker.
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destro_Yersul View Post
    On the other hand, The Emperor condemned Magnus the Red for practicing forbidden sorcery. It's possible the Emperor was just a really powerful psyker.
    "Just a really powerful psyker" is kind of an understatement, since "really powerful psykers" are capable of ridiculous feats of ridiculousness.
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    Default Re: Who's played Dark Heresy?

    They do, however, remain distinct from sorcerers, which was the point.
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