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    Lightbulb [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised Tome of Battle Discipline Part II

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    Last edited by Endarire; 2011-03-28 at 05:13 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    Just an FYI, but this is now what Stone Dragon is in my little world.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    Your explanations for Wearying Stance and Exhausting Strike are confusing. It seems like you're trying to explain some kind of synergy or stacking restriction, but I can't quite parse it.

    The first sentence of Stone Dragon's Wisdom should read "After activating this boost, you gain four benefits."
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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    Danke! Updated with clarifications.
    Quote Originally Posted by GPuzzle View Post
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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    Quote Originally Posted by Endarire View Post
    Exhausting Strike
    Stone Dragon (Strike)
    Level: Crusader5, Swordsage5, Warblade5
    Prerequisite: One Stone Dragon maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: 1 creature or object

    As part of this maneuver, you make a single melee attack. If you hit, you deal an extra 5d6 damage, and the target is automatically exhausted.

    If you hit a target with Exhausting Strike while in Wearying Stance, it is instead exhausted.
    The first exhausted should say fatigued because other wise it doen't make any sense.
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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    Quote Originally Posted by demidracolich View Post
    The first exhausted should say fatigued because other wise it doen't make any sense.
    See Level 3 Maneuvers, Wearying Strike.

    This maneuver, Exhausting Strike, is meant to cause the Exhausted condition, so no that's not right, but upon further examination of the fatigue rules you are correct that the sentence outlining the effects in combination with Wearying Stance doesn't make much sense. This is because nothing happens to an Exhausted creature that becomes Exhausted again.

    My suggestion for the wording of Wearying Strike and Wearying Stance, and it's one that's supported by the Intimidating Strike feat:

    "This maneuver cannot be used to increase a creature's condition beyond Fatigued."

    It's a slight nerf to them both, but a rather justifiable one if you ask me. I always thought that double Exhausting somebody forced a save against falling unconscious, but I don't know where I got that notion because it's not in the SRD anywhere.
    Last edited by Ziegander; 2011-03-21 at 01:55 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    The changes are still neat, though I think Colossus Strike is still a mite confusing. If you hit an obstacle, do you only deal damage based on how far the target traveled to that point or on how far it could have traveled? If prematurely stopped by an obstacle, if the damage is great enough to break it, do you continue to go the full extent of the distance or do you still stop?

    Also, the damage is exceedingly variable. Provided you succeed on the knockback, the extra damage goes anywhere from 9d6 (the 6d6 + 1d6 for landing + 2d6 from distance traveled) to 19d6 (6d6 initial + 1d6 landing +12d6 from distance), plus any other damage from the weapon and other miscellaneous factors. Like, it's cool, it just requires lots of dice rolls to determine what goes where and how it goes down.

    Also, Wearying Stance conflicts with itself. It says already fatigued creatures hit while in this stance are exhausted and then says they aren't. So, which is it?

    Still, kudos on the continued revision to make this a useful discipline for any initiator to pick up and use alongside the others.
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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    I'll revise this soon- like tomorrow- and am curious what you think of Resonating Stance (level 8).
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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    I assume you mean Reverberating Stance. It is dramatically better than spell turning. I don't know whether that's good or bad. I mean, on the one hand, it pretty much gives the one-finger salute to a lot of offensive magic and heavily nerfs archers and throwers. On the other hand, it's one of very few stances that you'll ever get and assuming the stance carries the opportunity cost of not taking any other stance. Plus, it's likely to eat most of your swift actions, which limits the opportunity to use boosts.

    However, it utterly pwns Reaching Branch stance and makes Strength of Stone look like a niche, backup stance. So the 8th-level stances are not well-balanced against one another. That's probably an opportunity for improvement.
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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    Excellent. simply excellent. Indeed, you kept the best part of the capstone of the discipline by giving it no maneuver prerequisites, like the original Mountain Tombstone Strike.
    Oh, nevermind. I misread.
    Last edited by Gideon Falcon; 2011-03-23 at 01:11 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    Did you put this up 'cause the old one died?
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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    The old thread was outdated.

    Maneuver prereqs are only there for people who enforce them. I think they're a bad idea.

    Reaching Branch Stance and Strength of Stone feel like they should be gained earlier, anyway. Perhaps make them level 6 stances comparable to a Crusader's.

    How does Reverberating Stance compare to other L8 stances?
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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    I think Reverbrating Stance and Strength of Stone are pretty comparable, though the mention of Grave Strike in Strength of Stone is a bit odd, considering that ignores a creature type ability, as opposed to granting an effect.

    Reaching Branch is definitely the weakest of the bunch. While neat, people who want reach have already got it one way or another by now, most likely on a permanent basis. I'd drop it down to a 6th or 7th level stance, as it's better than Dancing Blade Form, so it fits into that niche.
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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    Strength of Stone feels a bit weak compared to Reverberating Stance. Why must I wait 'til level 15 to become crit immune?

    Reaching Branch Stance and Strength of Stone should be level 6. Will change.

    The Tome of Battle level 8 stances are mostly ick. Immortal Fortitude (Devoted Spirit) and Stance of Alacrity (Diamond Mind) are the best official ones. The lower level stances, like Martial Spirit, Thicket of Blades, Punishing Stance, and Leaping Dragon Stance, generally do more and are more readily available.

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    Should repeatedly hitting someone while Wearying Stance cause exhaustion?
    Last edited by Endarire; 2011-03-28 at 04:17 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    Yes, I think it should.

    If I fatiguing you twice, it should be exhaustion.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    Hmm, not at level 5.

    1. Waves of fatigue does have advantages over wearying stance because of the range and likelihood of affecting multiple enemies, but WS is very likely to exhaust a boss or solo opponent in one round; exhaustion is a significant debuff.
    2. WS is also dual-threat (damage + debuff), while WoF is not.
    3. Moreover, a 9th level warblade can spam the WS debuff every round in every combat while still using other potent strikes. A 9th level-level wizzie cannot spam WoF while simultaneously throwing other mainline spells.
    4. Also, the 30-foot range on WoF is a significant limitation on the spell, since the typical wizzie debuffer is squishy and desires to avoid melee. The fact that WS is Range: Thwack is no concern at all for the typical martial adept, who prefers to be adjacent to his foes.
    5. Further, WS scales better with level than WoF, since it grows more effective as the adept gains more attacks per round and a higher attack bonus.


    If WS were to stack with itself, I'd place it at 6th level.
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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    lots of sound analysis
    Jiriku makes all the points I would have made, thus +1.

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    Default Re: [3.P] Stone Dragon - Endarire's Revised ToB Discipline Part II!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziegander View Post
    It's a slight nerf to them both, but a rather justifiable one if you ask me. I always thought that double Exhausting somebody forced a save against falling unconscious, but I don't know where I got that notion because it's not in the SRD anywhere.
    You could always make this a mechanic specific to the maneuvers in question.


    I think that stacking fatigue to get exhaustion is not a bad idea, but I don't know one way or another about the level.
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