El Goonish Shive

[Lord Raziere]

Exactly why Ted is a better character. He is understandable. Carrot isn't.

[Hidden Sanity]

Carrot does have a personality, it's just a rather simple one with very few flaws, which makes him unique in being Terry's only non-flawed character in the discworld books.

[Lord Raziere]

Well.

I think we know who's related to whom now….

[Mina Kobold]

How would they be related?

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Are Susan's ears actually elf ears and she was in fact fathered by Pandora? Or is she a clone that was adopted? Or is she and her double, Diane, actually amnesiac immortal twins? @_@

Wait, I got it!

Her mother ate Chaos' pie and was cursed to have children who look like Raven for super awkwardness! :3

[Lord Raziere]

Do we know what Susan's father looks like?

well we know what his ears and hair looks like, but we never saw his face.

[Mando Knight]

Do we know what Susan's father looks like?

well we know what his ears and hair looks like, but we never saw his face.

Think about it: have we ever seen Raven and Susan's father together?

[EternalMelon]

Think about it: have we ever seen Raven and Susan's father together?

Yes, In this Comic

[Mina Kobold]

Think about it: have we ever seen Raven and Susan's father together?

Nope, but we haven't seen Susan and Raven together either... O_O

Which means Raven must be able to be in two places at once! Otherwise Susan and Mr. Pompoms couldn't have met!

We do see Pompoms' silhouette in this comic, though. Raven's noses are quite a different shape, so he couldn't possibly be Pompoms. Everybody knows you can't transform noses without transforming your sex, it's a universal rule! :3

[golentan]

Nope, but we haven't seen Susan and Raven together either... O_O

Which means Raven must be able to be in two places at once! Otherwise Susan and Mr. Pompoms couldn't have met!

We do see Pompoms' silhouette in this comic, though. Raven's noses are quite a different shape, so he couldn't possibly be Pompoms. Everybody knows you can't transform noses without transforming your sex, it's a universal rule! :3

But Raven is an illusionist!

[Mina Kobold]

My hypothesis is flawed, then.

The entire Pompoms family must be illusions who gained sentience and tangibility! O_O

On another note, seems something is up with the boar. How suspenseful!

*Gets popcorn*

These will distract it!

*Gives popcorn to Raven*

:3

[Weimann]

Boar fight! Boar fight! Boar fight!

Having played WoW, I get some major déja vu here.

[golentan]

It took me a minute to realize the light patterns and the clak were the boar yawning after just waking up.

Also, nothing that big has any right to being that stealthy. Adamant Caste Colossi excepted.

[Calemyr]

On the discworld element of the discussion, Carrot is a hard one to judge. This is because, unlike anyone else in the series, there hasn't been the slightest glimpse into his head.

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Even characters who never get to be the perspective character usually get something. The narrator takes an omniscient stance usually, with interludes regarding a person's mental state, recent "off-screen" activities, active thoughts, motivations, or at least emotions. We get none of that with Carrot, at least not from an omniscient source. It's always from the perspective of someone else, and tainted with their biases and ignorance. The omniscient narrator, however, conveys no beyond the readily observable. In other words, while Carrot seems to be treated the same way as everyone else (and thus comes off as implausibly perfect), the actual character is a closed book in a locked cabinet in a library on a Sunday. What you're reading are the cliffnotes written by someone who read the cliffnotes written by someone who read a couple of pages from the author's notebooks.

What we do know about his flaws tend to fall into the "cute flaws" category: possible mild dyslexia, a tendency towards simplistic answers, an apparent dogmatic adherence to anything Vimes says, and a tendency to assume the rest of the universe thinks the same way he does. There are some less "cute" flaws that are apparent if you think about it, though.

The first part of it is tied to the last of the "cute" flaws - Carrot displays a shocking lack of empathy given his reputation. He looks at facts with objective discretion, but never seems to get beyond his own perspective when it comes to people. He continually makes apparently innocent comments that either should or do hurt others, either emotionally or financially, and clings to personal prejudice when faced with something he hasn't become accustomed to (notably dwarfish feminism and the undead).

The other part of it is actually an inversion of something Angua once observed in the book Jingo. She says that part of his "magic" is that he treats everyone like they're special and important, and takes pains to learn about them accordingly, which in turn makes them feel special and important and thus regard him highly. This is true, but the catch is found in something Carrot says in Men At Arms: Personal isn't the same thing as important. Everyone is important to him, but that by no means suggests any personal connection on his part. Although he gets along with everyone, he displays no real signs of affection for anyone beyond a very select few, and even then rarely - as Angua laments every now and then.

It's been hinted many times in the Watch books that something big regarding Carrot is on the horizon, usually through stray thoughts from Vimes and Angua. Half-voiced suspicions that he is in collusion with Vetinari. Suggestions that he is intentionally perpetuating his empathy-impaired persona as a means to an end. Idle musings as to whether or not Vimes will end up having to oppose him in the end. It seem quite obvious that Pratchett has something he's been laying the groundwork for, I just really hope he gets to put it to use before he retires.

Tedd, on the other hand, most often puts it right out there. Usually, just as thought bubbles at first, but ultimately voiced to someone in the long run. He is pretty clearly equal parts geek (obsessive) and nerd (scientific), and his fears and faults are presented and dealt with when and as the plot deems necessary. We frequently get to see the inside of his head, where the view is rather unsettling for some. We may not know everything about him, but we know who he is. All told, it's rather hard to find much common ground between Tedd and Carrot beyond the fact that they're both fictional male characters that play a major role as part of the inner circle around their story's focal character.

As for Susan, well, I can't tell if Shive is setting up for something or just making fun of his own artistic limitations with the whole "Susan looks like X" gag. It could easily be either. I mean, a lot of aspects in the story have origins not related to the story itself. Why is a Guineas a guinea pig? "A cute girl asked me to include a guinea pig character. How could I refuse?" Who is Susan? "The echo of who I originally planned Grace to be." And so on.

(Shive's one of the few storytellers I've heard of who actually explains his thought process on such things - which is one of the major reasons I find his comic interesting enough to keep it on my rather short "check regularly" list.)

[Sen isSaqqara]

Could anyone recommend a webcomic similar to EGS? I find myself somewhat bored with waiting for updates, and wish for something to archive-trawl through. I just recently finished reading the Wotch, and found that it reminded me of EGS. If someone could recommend something similar to those two, i would greatly appreciate it.

[Weimann]

The Wotch was the one I was going to recommend. I hear it's pretty similar, though I don't read it myself. Maybe I should.

The only thing I can really think of is Twokinds. It's about transformation, and furries, and a bit risqué as well. Decidedly more manga-esque than EGS however. I read it, but then I got into my anti-manga period and dropped it altogether, and I've not bothered to pick it up again.

Which reminds me, I should *gulp* pick up on Homestuck at some point.

In other news, I don't normally read the Sketchbook, but it seems it was EGS's 10 year anniversary the other day! Cheer! Cheer! Frolic!

[Sen isSaqqara]

Thanks. Anyone else got anything?

[Madmal]

Some webcomics i've found relating them to EGS and The wotch:
-Murry and Lewy, but it just got started recently, so no real archive bing.
-Sins: Venials; Archive binge may be confusing enough to give you a challenge.
-Weregeek
-City of Reality
-Misfile

'Tough it would help what "similarities" are you interested in.

[Sen isSaqqara]

Well if it helps, I just finished of Twokinds and really liked it. (Thanks for recommending that by the way, Weimann.)

[Mina Kobold]

Slightly Damned might be an option if you liked Twokinds, it is quite good and has some similar elements as well. Plus, it's adorable! X3

Gunnerkrigg Court doesn't have much transformation in it and is more Science Myth than Science Fantasy, but it is very very good as well. Has a theme of Ancient magic and New technology coexisting. An amazing read.

The Wotch: Cheer will probably be a good read as well. It deals with the football team-turned-cheerleaders and some alternate wackiness that the main Wotch cast isn't directly involved in. Has been on a yearlong hiatus, though.

Sandra and Woo is an amazing comic with wacky adventures and a bit more of a status quo. Not too magical, but it and the site's other comic Gaia are good and has a similar blend of seriousness and humour to El Goonish Shive.

Those are what I can think of for now, sorry that they aren't all too similar to El Goonish Shive. Goon is a rare trait. I hope they will help. ^_^'

EDIT: Oh, right. The anniversary! Cheers for the Goonest and Shivest comic on the interwebs!

[Gez]

I'd never thought I'd object to seeing Gunnerkrigg Court get recommendations, because it's a very excellent and also triple awesome webcomic, but it nonetheless leaves a bad taste in my mouth to see it recommend as "a somewhat wotch-like comic".

[Mina Kobold]

I was recommending comics that might be enjoyed by someone who liked El Goonish Shive and Twokinds...

It is in a very similar genre and character age, though. Even has a protagonist with hair in a shade of red (although, Annie is canonically strawberry blonde). Does that help?

[Sen isSaqqara]

Thanks, everyone. Now I've got a whole list to work my way through.

Oh yeah, I already read Cheer (before I read the Wotch, strangely enough.) Too bad it hasn't been updated in something like a year...

Edit: started reading Slightly Damned. It just joined in the now 3-way fight in my head for the position of Cutest Thing Evar. Up till now it's just been Azumanga Daioh and that one lolcat, but this is giving them a run for their money.

[Hidden Sanity]

T
Edit: started reading Slightly Damned. It just joined in the now 3-way fight in my head for the position of Cutest Thing Evar. Up till now it's just been Azumanga Daioh and that one lolcat, but this is giving them a run for their money.

There's one that beats them all.
"Chi's sweet home" is a series of anime shorts about a kitten named Chi and it's life as it get's lost, adopted, litter trained and so forth. Primarily done from the perspective of the kitten. I personally found it cuteness overload when I tried watching more than three or so of these couple-minute clips in one sitting; it was literally sickeningly cute. I still haven't finished them for exactly that reason.

[Spamotron]

Well that was unpleasant but it had to be done.

Raven's interest in the military isn't just talk. Dropping an animal that size in full fury instantly could have only been accomplished by a direct brain hit. That's a tough shot against a stationary target getting it on a charging boar with almost no time to aim borders on superhuman.

Which makes sense Elves always were known for uncanny marksmanship.

[Lizard Lord]

Which makes sense Elves always were known for uncanny marksmanship.

lol



In case you are wondering why I laughed.

[Mina Kobold]

Raven is a supernaturally old being with magical power, an interest in fighting and training with at least one type of lethal weaponry, so it does make sense that he has skills with a gun.

Bows, on the other hand, would have required a lot of resources or luck to come across when they were still the best ranged weaponry out there, neither of which are to be expected from a limping History teacher in Moperville.

[Spamotron]

lol



In case you are wondering why I laughed.

That is what I was referencing. Yes

[tiercel]

Welp, in related news, the Moperville Safeway is going to have a fantastic sale on pork roasts this week.

(Slightly less fantastic if that enchantment fades too quickly. Somewhat embarrassing for the store if the enchantment fades after the sale ends but before the roasts are all used.)

[horngeek]

Prediction: Grace will say 'everyone's worth at least trying to save', and Damien will be mentioned.

[John Cribati]

Prediction: Grace will say 'everyone's worth at least trying to save', and Damien will be mentioned.

Which will backfire, because Grace actually tried to save Damien.