Habits that kill fun in a session.

[Claudius Maximus]

how dd I forget that one? it happened to me in reverse though. we were 4/5ths of the way through a campaign and the Players announce it's getting too boring. Normally this is a sign of bad DMing, but no one brought it up with me so I never had a chance to correct anything, and everyone seemed to be having fun at the time so i didn't see it coming at all.

This is my greatest fear, especially since the players are so tight-lipped with criticism.

[Eric Tolle]

Wow just wow.

That's not so bad. Now, the GM in this story...:

On May 7 1998, 12:00 am, [email protected] wrote:

> Story #2:
> Playing Space Opera, I had a referee whose opposition was *always*, without
> fail, able to trivially kick the PCs' butt. He also railroaded with a
> heavier hand than anyone I've ever even heard rumors of. We latched on to
> the pattern early in the game and started to experiment to see just how far
> this referee power trip went. One of the experiments was to just attack a
> random passer-by with everything we had (and, trust me, we had *incredible*
> levels of power!--this would have been a Monty Hall campaign except for the
> fact that everything else had even more power). Sure enough, this completely
> random passer-by just happened to be an incredibly powerful psionic who
> trivially wiped the streets clean with us. Then this same NPC--the one we
> opened up relationships with by trying to kill, mind--decided that we were
> trustworthy folk who would be perfect for a military mission he had in mind.
> Here's where things got very surreal:
> 1) We refused to participate so he teleported us to the battlefield.
> 2) We just stood around and ignored everything going on around us so we got
> teleported inside a (tracked) tank.
> 3) We refused to drive the tank or fire its gun at anything so it drove
> itself and shot at the opposition (who were, of course, able to just swat
> aside the rounds).
> 4) We climbed out of the tank and jumped in front of it under its treads so
> it levitated over us with its hitherto unseen anti-gravity device.
> 5) My character tried to use a force knife to cut his own throat, but the
> force knife blade contracted to nothing whenever it got close to being able
> to injure my character.
>
> At this point we all just got up and left the game, never to return.

[dsmiles]

Here's one that kills it for me:

A DM who won't make a rules decision when players have been arguing about how a rule works for more than a few minutes. I came to play, not waste my time.

On that note:

Players who argue about rules for more than a few minutes.

[bloodtide]

Players that insist on Rolling--This comes up a lot when as DM I'll just handwave things to keep the game moving.


DM-You walk by some bright red flowers that smell very pleasant.
Player-''Oh, what are they?!'' looks for d20
DM-With your 10 ranks in knowledge nature and 10 ranks in elven lore and the fact that your a half elven druid...you just know that the flowers are Resp Flowers, a type of specialty elven flower...
PlayerIgnores DM-I roll a 27 on my Plant Lore, what are the flowers?

Everything Knowledge Roll-where the player wants to know everything.

Player--I rolled a 30, what are the humanoids?
DM--They are a race you heard of call the Jask. A cat-like race that lives in small groups. They are good at hunting and have great jumpping abilities.
Player AND???
DM What?
Player Tell me more, I want to know everything about them.

[DarkEternal]

Players that insist on Rolling--This comes up a lot when as DM I'll just handwave things to keep the game moving.


DM-You walk by some bright red flowers that smell very pleasant.
Player-''Oh, what are they?!'' looks for d20
DM-With your 10 ranks in knowledge nature and 10 ranks in elven lore and the fact that your a half elven druid...you just know that the flowers are Resp Flowers, a type of specialty elven flower...
PlayerIgnores DM-I roll a 27 on my Plant Lore, what are the flowers?

Everything Knowledge Roll-where the player wants to know everything.

Player--I rolled a 30, what are the humanoids?
DM--They are a race you heard of call the Jask. A cat-like race that lives in small groups. They are good at hunting and have great jumpping abilities.
Player AND???
DM What?
Player Tell me more, I want to know everything about them.

I was always the DM, never the player, but I admit, I would probably be the player that wants to know everything. Not due to some roll, but just out of fluff and general interest in whatever tale and history the DM can spin around these beings, even if I could find it myself in a Monster Manual. And yes, I do know how tiring and annoying this can be for a DM.

[Provengreil]

Everything Knowledge Roll-where the player wants to know everything.

Player--I rolled a 30, what are the humanoids?
DM--They are a race you heard of call the Jask. A cat-like race that lives in small groups. They are good at hunting and have great jumpping abilities.
Player AND???
DM What?
Player Tell me more, I want to know everything about them.

to be fair, a 30 ought to get you more than a name and hunting habits, that's the common knowledge area.

[big teej]

how dd I forget that one? it happened to me in reverse though. we were 4/5ths of the way through a campaign and the Players announce it's getting too boring. Normally this is a sign of bad DMing, but no one brought it up with me so I never had a chance to correct anything, and everyone seemed to be having fun at the time so i didn't see it coming at all.

I would die if my players did this to me. because thus far, I've not recieved a single criticism thus far, and people apparently are having fun.\

That's not so bad. Now, the GM in this story...:

On May 7 1998, 12:00 am, [email protected] wrote:

> Story #2:
> Playing Space Opera, I had a referee whose opposition was *always*, without
> fail, able to trivially kick the PCs' butt. He also railroaded with a
> heavier hand than anyone I've ever even heard rumors of. We latched on to
> the pattern early in the game and started to experiment to see just how far
> this referee power trip went. One of the experiments was to just attack a
> random passer-by with everything we had (and, trust me, we had *incredible*
> levels of power!--this would have been a Monty Hall campaign except for the
> fact that everything else had even more power). Sure enough, this completely
> random passer-by just happened to be an incredibly powerful psionic who
> trivially wiped the streets clean with us. Then this same NPC--the one we
> opened up relationships with by trying to kill, mind--decided that we were
> trustworthy folk who would be perfect for a military mission he had in mind.
> Here's where things got very surreal:
> 1) We refused to participate so he teleported us to the battlefield.
> 2) We just stood around and ignored everything going on around us so we got
> teleported inside a (tracked) tank.
> 3) We refused to drive the tank or fire its gun at anything so it drove
> itself and shot at the opposition (who were, of course, able to just swat
> aside the rounds).
> 4) We climbed out of the tank and jumped in front of it under its treads so
> it levitated over us with its hitherto unseen anti-gravity device.
> 5) My character tried to use a force knife to cut his own throat, but the
> force knife blade contracted to nothing whenever it got close to being able
> to injure my character.
>
> At this point we all just got up and left the game, never to return.

I would have staged a coup.....

[Sipex]

I'll put a vote for "Player who won't give you criticism when they have some."

Seriously guys, I know it might SEEM like I have telepathy at times but that's only because you're fighting a race of psionic users.

[Glass Mouse]

how dd I forget that one? it happened to me in reverse though. we were 4/5ths of the way through a campaign and the Players announce it's getting too boring. Normally this is a sign of bad DMing, but no one brought it up with me so I never had a chance to correct anything, and everyone seemed to be having fun at the time so i didn't see it coming at all.

That's an overwhelming fear of mine and the main reason I periodically ask for feedback.
Of course, my group consists of my (way too sweet) boyfriend, a "you put more work into this than I do, so I can't critisize you" guy, and a guy whose preferred playing style is completely different from mine, so who knows.......

To contribute something meaningful:

I just found a new pet peeve: Players who don't want me looking at their character sheet.
Yeah, dude... I'm the GM. That's not gonna fly.

Related: Players who simply must win, cannot act against their better judgment and thus cannot be trusted not to metagame.
Honestly, though, I'm not sure if this is just a clash of playing styles. Is this inherently bad, or is it common practise among powergamers/optimizers?

[some guy]

That's an overwhelming fear of mine and the main reason I periodically ask for feedback.
Of course, my group consists of my (way too sweet) boyfriend, a "you put more work into this than I do, so I can't critisize you" guy, and a guy whose preferred playing style is completely different from mine, so who knows.......

Yeah, asking for feedback is basically a Good Thing for a GM to do. Of course, even then players might be sparse with criticizing.

As for my own peeves:
I usually DM, but I play in one campaign. Unfortunately most players in this group are not really organized with their scheduling. Seriously, we always play on wednesdays, the DM reminds everyone two days before and still people keep forgetting it. Which usually results in waiting 1,5 hour before playing/ not playing at all/ me setting up a one-shot.

People who don't know how a spell works after using every session and still insisting on looking it up after you've said how it works.
player: So I cast Ray of Enfeeblement.
me: Alright, so that's a touch attack that does 1d6+4 strength damage.
player: I'm going to look that up!
It would be so bad, but it keeps happing.

[NowhereMan583]

the DM rolls a d20. I, curious, ask "watcha rolling?"
DM: a reflex save to see if the guy dodges your arrow.
me.
last time I checked, that's what AC is for.... and the distinction between normal, touch, and flatfooted....

I have a player who does this. Every time anything hits her character, she asks if she gets a reflex save to dodge it. I've tried explaining that this is exactly what the dexterity bonus to her AC represents, but the next session she'll ask the same question...

On that note:
Players who not only refuse to learn the rules, but then are upset that the other players know the rules better.
The same player above doesn't own any of the rulebooks, and basically refuses to look at the SRD -- when it comes time to level up, she'll just ask me to tell her what to add to her sheet, claiming that she "doesn't know where to find it", even though I've pointed out multiple times where the "Rogue" table can be found, and explained the use of the "Search" function. Then, when another player suggested she try feinting in order to hit more often, she asked angrily why nobody had explained this rule to her before. Because it's your job to figure out how to play your character. (She's also played a rogue in three consecutive campaigns and always has to ask how sneak attack works. Not just "when can I do it?", but "what does it do?")

[Claudius Maximus]

Related: Players who simply must win, cannot act against their better judgment and thus cannot be trusted not to metagame.
Honestly, though, I'm not sure if this is just a clash of playing styles. Is this inherently bad, or is it common practise among powergamers/optimizers?

That sounds like a playstyle difference, with people who primarily consider it a game where they're supposed to try their best to succeed. Basically, people who want to "win" the game.

I've only met a few of these people, but I have not observed any particular correlation between them and optimizers, though I would honestly not be surprised if there were one on a wider basis. On the other hand, I consider myself an optimizer and someone who especially enjoys the tactical/wargaming aspect of the game, but I can certainly act primarily in-character.

On some kind of mutant third hand though, I do usually play prudent/knowledgeable characters, who rarely act against their own interest, and now that I think about it it might be because I can't really escape my extensive metagame knowledge. Huh...

[Nerocite]

How about someone that doesn't have a character, even though we've been playing for a month?

[Sarco_Phage]

How about someone that doesn't have a character, even though we've been playing for a month?

I'm... not sure how this is possible.

[bloodtide]

to be fair, a 30 ought to get you more than a name and hunting habits, that's the common knowledge area.

The problem here is that the group is knee deep in the Swamp of Doom, just five minutes from the big encounter of the night. And one player, instead of wanting to play D&D, wants the DM to sit back and read a book to them for the next half hour.


The player that wants to know everything, but won't ask directly--this is a variant of the know everything player. All they really want to know is the monsters diet, but they will let the DM go on forever, telling them all about the monster.

The What Is It's Weakness Player--This is the player that is convinced that each and every monster has a special weakness. Something like a special spot where if the hit the monster then they will automatically kill it.

[Nerocite]

I'm... not sure how this is possible.

He just made it up as he played.

[dsmiles]

He just made it up as he played.

So...he did have a character. He was playing Red Mage!

[Sarco_Phage]

He just made it up as he played.

I admire his balls. I mean, if I had him as a player, I'd probably have punched him in the **** by now, but from here I can only shake my head in wonder.

[Mulletmanalive]

The fifty year old player who brags about gaming while the rest of us were in diapers but makes the dumbest actions possible.

Ohh gaaawd...

The rest are annoying but this one drives me crazy...

• The guy who plays a wizard and constantly talks through every damn thing, weighing the pros and cons of every possible spell combo and then launches into this Time Stop based killplan that takes so long that the GM and the rest of us managed two pints at the pub down the steet, then finally realises we're gone and phones us to lecture us on not allowing him to have his fun...

Yes, I'm one of those guys whose turn is usually short [and i don't play wizards for fear of becoming like this moron] and then ends up clawing my eyes out waiting for my turn to come around again...

[Nerocite]

Ohh gaaawd...

Yes, I'm one of those guys whose turn is usually short [and i don't play wizards for fear of becoming like this moron] and then ends up clawing my eyes out waiting for my turn to come around again...

This. So much. My turns are "run up to monsters and hit them", while the other guys have to re-examine their character sheet every turn.

[gourdcaptain]

Getting the Stormwind fallacy invoked on me. I got made fun of for being a min/maxer when I tried to join a game yesterday which I thought was PF, was then told was 3.5e after building an approved character, and daring to ask to rebuild to the new system. No, I'm not sure what I was supposed to do with all my features and feats that don't exist in 3.5e. Oh, and then my class/race combo (Half-Giant Psychic Warrior) was said to not fit the campaign setting and I was told to repick, despite asking approval a week earlier. At this point I more or less walked out. (And by a friend's account who went past a bit later, they figured I was a terrible roleplayer because I played a psionic character and asked if I was overoptimized for the campaign.)

[gourdcaptain]

This. So much. My turns are "run up to monsters and hit them", while the other guys have to re-examine their character sheet every turn.

Hell, I'll play a COMPLICATED character (ToB, spellcaster) and still take less time than the Archer Ranger to figure out what to do. Or in 4e games where people have been playing the same character for 24+ sessions, and still end up looking up their powers regularly from the books.

[dsmiles]

(And by a friend's account who went past a bit later, they figured I was a terrible roleplayer because I played a psionic character and asked if I was overoptimized for the campaign.)

People who think psionics are overpowered just because they don't understand them, killing fun since 3e.

[Provengreil]

The What Is It's Weakness Player--This is the player that is convinced that each and every monster has a special weakness. Something like a special spot where if the hit the monster then they will automatically kill it.

I blame nintendo: all those flashing "shoot me" buttons have made things way too easy in some games.

[Claudius Maximus]

Not to mention all the RPGs with elemental rock-paper-scissors paradigms. And Pokémon.

It also doesn't help that some monsters do have weaknesses. I think they should be around, but rare. It's awesome when you drown a Crawling Head, but if you get to attack a weakness of every monster everyone just takes it for granted.

[AsteriskAmp]

The What Is It's Weakness Player--This is the player that is convinced that each and every monster has a special weakness. Something like a special spot where if the hit the monster then they will automatically kill it.

Just serve it up on a plate to them -only for it to be horribly wrong-.
Tempt them not to make the check, making it glaringly obvious, get them to try to make called shots at a penalty or something and be horribly or hilariously wrong.

For example, when fighting a Criohydra a player (whose brain I doubt exists) decided that there had to be a central head that when cut would insta-kill it, so I described it as having a head that looked rather well kept, and seemed a bit bigger. He went for it in a sort of like last chance run, he got horrible damage, and reached the head and victoriously cut it. Then the hydra remained alive and promptly murdered him. The well kept head was one grown recently because of another adventuring party.

[Vknight]

Never able to plan do any sort of detective work. Some memebers at the end of sessions complain to many battles. The next session is mainly roleplay there complaint is to little battles.

But the worst thing

The Worst Thing

Is giving them all the items they need to solve a puzzel or do anything in the story and it needs to be spelt out.

Pirates want some rum. Party wants to kill pirates subetly and gets to a nation 7days away via boat. They have a injestiable posion that takes 7-8days for effect.
There plan was to raid the ship. The knight they were talking to said this
"You still have that poison don't you?" *Players look blankly at me*

"Yeah but whats that going to do it makes them stronger faster and takes 7-8days to kill them."

"And you need to get to Soveliss which is 7days away correct?" *They stare*

Every time the poison was brought up someone would point out it takes to long to kill them and makes them tougher. They completly forgot that they were heading some place that was a distance away from them that would kill the pirates as they docked.
They kept on thinking of taking the ship. A fully stocked and armed pirate ship. With a captain who they can regonize from his wanted poster and bounty. Said Bounty equalling the man they were helping because he would kill them otherwise.

[Sipex]

Weaknesses are also inherit of the 2e system, where monsters had the oddest one hit kill buttons. Like a haunted helmet which could be defeated with some sort of specific liquor.

[Sarco_Phage]

Weaknesses are also inherit of the 2e system, where monsters had the oddest one hit kill buttons. Like a haunted helmet which could be defeated with some sort of specific liquor.

Tied in to the old fairy stories and myths, where magic was something special and unique, and beasts of legend had very specific conditions to kill them.

[Claudius Maximus]

Some of those are pretty cool though. I like ideas like beating a raging ghost by leading him to his grave, proving to him that he's dead. A lot of spirit type monsters from mythology have similar conditions.