Habits that kill fun in a session.

[*.*.*.*]

Mr. Monster: This is the guy who just can't be satisfied by humanoids (as character races, you pervs). He's always wheedling the DM to let him play some exotic monster race, often a racial progression class for a Solar or something at level 5.

I personally fall under this one. I just find playing humanoids boring

[Hiro Protagonest]

I personally fall under this one. I just find playing humanoids boring

Boring? You calling goliaths and gnolls boring? And yes, goliaths and gnolls are humanoids.

[*.*.*.*]

Boring? You calling goliaths and gnolls boring? And yes, goliaths and gnolls are humanoids.

Goliaths? Yes. Gnolls? Better than the others, but they still aren't THAT interesting. Gnolls and Sahuagin(sp?) are fine, but I despise playing PHB races.

[Lhurgyof]

Probaly already done, but I got a few from a player of ours:

The Cheater: Rolls conveniently out of sight and bumps dice all the time. I mean, it's understandable once in a while but several times every session?

Lack of Hygiene: B.O., sweaty, stinks, and doesn't really seem to care.

Mr. Physical Contact: Headlocks, punches, and innapropriate touching, oh my! Wouldn't be that bad if it weren't paired with the lack of hygiene...

The Attitude: Gets pissy with a lot of things and likes to argue a lot (and doesn't argue all that well, it's like trying to convice a brick wall of something). Usually leads to physical contact if he gets pissy enough.

[Tael]

Goliaths? Yes. Gnolls? Better than the others, but they still aren't THAT interesting. Gnolls and Sahuagin(sp?) are fine, but I despise playing PHB races.

How can you possibly roleplay something which you can't relate to? And how do you justify being with the party? Because every 'monster' PC I've played with has just been a human in the body of an X, and then you might as well mechanically be X but call yourself human.

[The Glyphstone]

I personally fall under this one. I just find playing humanoids boring

Probably not...Mr. Monster is the guy who wants to play a Medusa Sorcerer in one game, then a Half-Minotaur Mind Flayer Rogue, then an Umbral Blot monster progression class, then an Awakened Dandelion, then an Anthropomorphic Queen Bee, then a Fiendish Lantern Archon, then a Paragon Celestial Sentry Ooze Black Pudding...

Unless that does describe you. Then never mind.

[jguy]

The Stratego DM

I had a long post on these forums on what the difference between taking a 5-foot step and moving 5 feet. A mindless zombie should not know how to move in such a way to defend themselves, nor a vermin, yet I have DM's who play them just like such. It is highly annoying.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I had a long post on these forums on what the difference between taking a 5-foot step and moving 5 feet. A mindless zombie should not know how to move in such a way to defend themselves, nor a vermin, yet I have DM's who play them just like such. It is highly annoying.

A zombie shouldn't be able to make 5 ft. steps, but vermin have animal instincts.

[Provengreil]

A zombie shouldn't be able to make 5 ft. steps, but vermin have animal instincts.

it's not that a zombie couldn't 5th step so much as wouldn't, unless you moved away from it; once it's close to you it'll stop trying to get close and just start with the biting. as for vermin, i'm not sure. I think their tactics would be limited to attack or run and hide, meaning no 5ft steps, but again little reason to take them.

[jguy]

No, my whole issue was what was considered a 5-foot step, a tactical movement designed to prevent openings in your defenses, and moving 5 feet. By RAW, any movement of 5 feet is considered a 5 foot step but vermin, constructs, and undead have no concept of tactical movement and, in my opinion, should warrant AoO went moving 5 feet. But the issue was debated into the ground and it came down to "DM's rules"

[Seerow]

One that annoys me: people who constantly want to chance character class mid-campaign for new munchkinry opportunities. Come on! He's already the most optimized character to the point where he could kill everyone else in the party, just stick with a class!!!

Eh this one describes me. When a campaign runs over the course of a year or two, I'll find myself getting bored with a character and want to switch it up, though I'll usually wait til my character meets his untimely end with just a little encouragement to the GM saying I really won't be upset if my character dies.

Really, the biggest problem is starting out a character, and it just not playing at all how you expected, or the campaign has progressed differently than you hoped. Or especially when there's another player in the party playing a character that fills pretty much the exact same role.

[Terazul]

One that annoys me: people who constantly want to chance character class mid-campaign for new munchkinry opportunities. Come on! He's already the most optimized character to the point where he could kill everyone else in the party, just stick with a class!!!

I can't tell if this is being upset with someone using a lot of different classes in one character, or someone who wants to change a character entirely often enough throughout the campaign. I mean the latter, yeah, that's annoying, but the former...

[Firechanter]

By RAW, any movement of 5 feet is considered a 5 foot step

It isn't. A 5'-step is not a Move Action, but a "miscellaneous action", because you can also do it when you take a full round action on the same turn. Moving 5' per move action provokes normally. But normally nobody does that because it makes no sense. That said...

but vermin, constructs, and undead have no concept of tactical movement and, in my opinion, should warrant AoO went moving 5 feet.

...I think you have a point there. I'll pay attention not to let mindless creatures take tactical 5'-steps when I DM. Also, not mindless but very dumb monsters might do such mistakes on occasion. And lastly, when the enemy is routing, they are probably too panicked to think of the Withdraw action but just turn and run.

[Lhurgyof]

It isn't. A 5'-step is not a Move Action, but a "miscellaneous action", because you can also do it when you take a full round action on the same turn. Moving 5' per move action provokes normally. But normally nobody does that because it makes no sense. That said...



...I think you have a point there. I'll pay attention not to let mindless creatures take tactical 5'-steps when I DM. Also, not mindless but very dumb monsters might do such mistakes on occasion. And lastly, when the enemy is routing, they are probably too panicked to think of the Withdraw action but just turn and run.

True, but is it still challenging for the PC's? Does it accurately reflect their CR? I understand there are some ridiculous things (like zombies coordinating attacks and ambushes), but some basic tactics may be necessary to keep the challenge there. But then again, it's all about the fun.

[Combat Reflexes]

I had a long post on these forums on what the difference between taking a 5-foot step and moving 5 feet. A mindless zombie should not know how to move in such a way to defend themselves, nor a vermin, yet I have DM's who play them just like such. It is highly annoying.

This is dependent on what exactly a 5-ft step means. It could mean 'strafing' (FPS style), but it could also mean an opening you created during your full attack - you harass your target with strikes so he can't AoO you when you change position (your big blade is in the way).

Mindless creatures should not know how to strafe, but making 5-ft steps during the full attack should be feasible - but only if the vermin has a good reason to change position during the battle (i.e. it has some kind of whirlwind attack, a character with a longspear 10 ft. away is doing way more damage than its current target etc. etc.).

One more thing: should animals know how to flank? Flanking means coordinating attacks, and I can imagine wolves and other group animals doing that, but two bears? Two badgers? Two sharks?

True, but is it still challenging for the PC's? Does it accurately reflect their CR? I understand there are some ridiculous things (like zombies coordinating attacks and ambushes), but some basic tactics may be necessary to keep the challenge there. But then again, it's all about the fun.

The answer is simple: more zombies equals more CR. If you add the number of zombies that you expect to be slain by AoO's, you can DM your mindless minions as truly (un? non?)-tactical and still keep the same challenge rating.
It's also a win for the players, because rolling more dice is always fun.

[/offtopic]

[Wraith]

The Head Hunter

A certain type of player - usually the 'munchkin', but often ones who aren't very good and only go for the most obvious of the powerful builds - justifies his every action with a phrase that generally translates as: "My character could kill your character, if I wanted to."

This is their sole method of comparison in any area; the perceived ability to be a superior warrior than everyone else. And they let you know it at every opportunity, usually in depth, at great length and (most annoyingly) repeatedly through the session.

Player 1: "I rolled a 12, does that hit?"
DM: "No, sorry - it's a narrow miss."
Head Hunter: "Whoa, you missed on a 12? That's rubbish, I (and it usually is 'I' rather than 'my character') could have killed it twice over by now!"

Also:

Head Hunter: "I could kill you in, like, 1 round! All I'd have to do is use Feat A, move, use Feat B, roll a 5 or more on a d20, hit you on another 5 or more, then damage is X plus Y times Z with my DEX, STR and CON bonuses added on top... you couldn't take that!"
Player B: "That's nice. But I just asked you to open the door while I cover it with my bow."
Head Hunter: "Yeah, but I could, so you shouldn't tell me what to do!"
Player B: "Fine." *rolls a dice, scores a slightly better-than-average number* "I parry your attack. No damage. At all."
Head Hunter: "......"

The guy I know who plays like this, seems unable to help himself. He even does it while we're playing other games where is a deliberate disadvantage for him to do so. Magic the Gathering for example:

Head Hunter: "I could win this so easily! All I have to do is cast Spell A, tap Creature B, return Card C to my hand and then play Spell D and I'd do it!"
Player A: "I counter that spell."
Player B: "I destroy that creature.
Player C: "I exile that card."
Player A: "I counter that spell. Again."
Head Hunter: "....."

He usually gets his comeuppance at least once per game; I suppose the most annoying part is listening to him rant on about it before it happens!

[*.*.*.*]

How can you possibly roleplay something which you can't relate to? And how do you justify being with the party? Because every 'monster' PC I've played with has just been a human in the body of an X, and then you might as well mechanically be X but call yourself human.

I can roleplay a horribly evil necromancer whose entire goal in life is to rule the world. Can I relate at all to this character? Of course not. Justification is easy when you have a good backstory and/or you know what the DM wants out of the campaign.

Unless that does describe you. Then never mind.

I'm not that bad

[Vladislav]

Head Hunter: "I could kill you in, like, 1 round! All I'd have to do is use Feat A, move, use Feat B, roll a 5 or more on a d20, hit you on another 5 or more, then damage is X plus Y times Z with my DEX, STR and CON bonuses added on top... you couldn't take that!"

I tend to do that sometimes, but I'm getting this under control. I am currently playing a character that could kill any other party member in a duel in 1 round on a roll of *2* or better, and I haven't mentioned it to the other players even once! Uhm, well, I guess I mentioned it now. But it doesn't count.

How can you possibly roleplay something which you can't relate to? And how do you justify being with the party? Because every 'monster' PC I've played with has just been a human in the body of an X, and then you might as well mechanically be X but call yourself human.

This is sooo true. On this board, at least, I have seen:

Aasimar? Human with high Wisdom and Charisma.
Half-Ogre? Large and strong human.
Pixie? Small invisible flying human with spells who is unfotunately 4 levels behind the party, unless it's gestalt, in which case only one side of the gestalt suffers, woo-hoo!
One of 'dem homebrew monster classes? Human with claws that deal d4+Str bonus damage and possibly has some other goodies, depending on how much you were able to slip past the DM.
etc. etc.

[Hawriel]

One that annoys me: people who constantly want to chance character class mid-campaign for new munchkinry opportunities. Come on! He's already the most optimized character to the point where he could kill everyone else in the party, just stick with a class!!!

If its the classA4/ClassB1/ClassC2/PRCA2/PRCB3 kind of character with no real thought other than munchkin, then yes thats really aggravating.

Or if it's the kind of player that cant make up his mind and changes the character so much that it dissrupts the game, thats BS too.

This reminds of of the guy who wants to play a new character every second or third week.

Ive had one character change classes because of a character direction change. He was a fighter, then became a sorc, then a eldrich knight. (pathfinder). I didnt do it to powergame, it just suited the characters personality after I started playing him. He had an 18 str, and cha. He also was thrown into a plot that dealt with alot of magic and discovery of new magic. So it was a natural progretion.

[Talakeal]

Or if it's the kind of player that cant make up his mind and changes the character so much that it dissrupts the game, thats BS too.

This reminds of of the guy who wants to play a new character every second or third week.

I had that guy in my game. So annoying.

[dsmiles]

I can roleplay a horribly evil necromancer whose entire goal in life is to rule the world. Can I relate at all to this character? Of course not.

Wait. What? I have to stretch to play the "good guy."

[Choco]

He usually gets his comeuppance at least once per game; I suppose the most annoying part is listening to him rant on about it before it happens!

In my experience, this guy TOTALLY loses his **** when this happens too. He spends all that time bragging about his uber character, you call him on it, he attacks you, you win, and he storms out of the room screaming...

[Gamer Girl]

How can you possibly roleplay something which you can't relate to? And how do you justify being with the party? Because every 'monster' PC I've played with has just been a human in the body of an X, and then you might as well mechanically be X but call yourself human.

The All Too Human Player--First this player likes to be all sorts of strange or unusual races. This alone is not so bad, as most settings have at least a different race or two, and it's nice to have one in the group. The problem comes in when the player makes the strange or unusual race 'just like a human'. This really shows through for some races. This player makes no effort to role play their race at all, and is basically just a default human character.

The Just for the Goodies Race Player--Much like the above one, this player just grabs a race for some mechanical benefit and then does not role-play it at all. Worse is a lot of the time they have some great role-play possibilities, but just ignore them.

The Ignore the Fluff Player--This player ignores any and all racial fluff, and even mechanical stuff if forced upon them. If elves in the campaign like nature, she won't care. And she won't even make the effort to come up with a fair role-playing point, they will just ignore the fluff.

[Nerocite]

Mr. Numbers: The player who only focuses on the data aspect of the game.
"I have 34 AC"
"That monster is at 132 health"
"I can do 27 damage in one attack"

[Greenish]

Boring? You calling goliaths and gnolls boring? And yes, goliaths and gnolls are humanoids.

Well, most playable races (in D&D) are humanoid in physique, since the game assumes they are, and it makes it easier. Goliaths are actually Monstrous Humanoids, if you meant their type.

And lastly, when the enemy is routing, they are probably too panicked to think of the Withdraw action but just turn and run.

You have to be really out of it and lacking the sense of self-preservation to turn your back to the hostile guy in front of you with a sword ready. Okay, if they're actually Panicked they'll do it by the rules, but just a rout probably wouldn't do it to anything that's both sentient and a challenge to player characters.

Aasimar? Human with high Wisdom and Charisma.
Half-Ogre? Large and strong human.

To be fair, aasimar are mostly human, and probably more affected by their environment and upbringing than by the trace of celestial blood, and half-ogre is still half-human.

I mean, it's not like we have any point of comparison in real life for how "human" or "alien" non-human sentient races who have co-existed with humans for ages would be. Maybe it's the humans who're suspiciously like the other races?

[MlleRouge]

[B]

The Just for the Goodies Race Player--Much like the above one, this player just grabs a race for some mechanical benefit and then does not role-play it at all. Worse is a lot of the time they have some great role-play possibilities, but just ignore them.

This is the reason I removed subraces from my campaign setting. I'm working on an alternative system for them to eventually replace it, but yeah.

[BlackestOfMages]

the 'oh i won't minmax my classes' guy

so, new guy in the group, on his first day, asked if he could bring over a charachter from their previous place with around the same level 91 lower). DM says yeah. he then produce a charachter sheet that is a 1/4 Solar 1/4 war troll elven weredragon lich bard, at level 8. He then insisted he had the solar's epic DR, and if that was beaten the wartrolls regen, and he could turn into a dragon if needed (which was alive, as it's not were-dragolich, and retained the two previous abilaties), as those are racial features so reducing them's unfair...

still, at least he accepted us asking him to roll a new charachter instead for next session. I just fear the next attempted munchkin...

[Wraith]

I tend to do that sometimes, but I'm getting this under control. I am currently playing a character that could kill any other party member in a duel in 1 round on a roll of *2* or better, and I haven't mentioned it to the other players even once! Uhm, well, I guess I mentioned it now. But it doesn't count.

See, that's absolutely fine because you've spotted it and have done something about it. You're a recovering Head Hunter, which is the important thing

We're probably all guilty of it, at one point or another, and a little bit of banter is harmless fun that usually leads to amusing in-jokes.
Heck, in one of my groups, we started with a similar mentality and then it quickly grew to include EVERYTHING - up to and including bragging how often we blow ourselves up with a grenade, how many times we critically fail a roll and how often we accidentally summon a hostile daemon that tried to slaughter the party!

The annoying part is when the single "I can kill you" point becomes the dominant subject of conversation, every session, for 6 sessions. And then starts over in the new campaign....

In my experience, this guy TOTALLY loses his **** when this happens too. He spends all that time bragging about his uber character, you call him on it, he attacks you, you win, and he storms out of the room screaming...

Never that drastic in my experience (usually just involves sulking and a few pathetic requests to play some other game for a bit.... ) but I can see all too easily how that'd happen.

[Silus]

Mr. Worldbuilder
Ok, so your character has been built to excel at social interactions, manipulation, and general worldbuilding. Wonderful, nice to see that you've thought it out as much as you did.

But we're not doing a worldbuilding game, we're doing something else.

This is the kind of person that thinks you're playing Civilization as opposed to whatever tabletop game you are playing (D&D, Pathfinder, WoD, ect. ect.).

Guy in my group, about every 4/5 characters he makes are built with worldbuilding in mind, even when the campaign does not call for it.

[Talakeal]

I got a good one. Mr. Always tries to outdo himself.

Week 1 he is playing a human.
Week 2 he says a human isn't cool enough and wants to play a half elf.
Week 3 he says a half elf isn't cool enough and wants to play a full elf.
Week 4 he says an elf isn't good enough and wants to play a half angel elf.
Week 5 he says a half angel isn't good enough and wants to play a full angel.
Week 6 he says an angel isn't cool enough and wants to play an archangel.
Week 7 he says an archangel isn't good enough he wants to play a half phoenix*
Week 8 he says' a half phoenix isn't cool enough he wants to be a full phoenix.

At the start of week nine the other players and I were all sick of this and making fun of him behind his back. We came up with a plan to show him just how silly he was being. We look through the monster manual and find the biggest thing in there.

Week nine starts and one of the other players, according to plan, says "I decided my character isn't cool enough, this week I want to play a Titan!"

To which the first player responds "We can play TITANS! Sweet give me a new character sheet, the Phoenix was getting lame anyway!"



*: So at first I told him Phoenix was too powerful, we compromised on a Phoenix possessing a human who would only assume it's true form as a "last resort". First encounter some bandits get the drop on him, give the usual you are surrounded give us your money act, and so to show them up first round his action is "PHOENIX FORM!", as it is for every fight until I give in and just let him play a phoenix.