Habits that kill fun in a session.

[Sipex]

The Character Repeat Guy...the BAD kind: This dude wants to keep trying the same unsuccessful character concept over and over and over....it never works, for either mechanical or social reasons, and it really just gets sad after a while.

My group has a tendency to repeat characters, or at least keep retired characters close to our hearts. We used to have a guy (since booted. I've mentioned him in previous posts) who loved to repeat his character as well...except he was a) an Artemis Entreri clone and b) his bad 'novel' character that was basically what he wished he was IRL.

He played this guy at least three times in d&d, never once getting along with the party. He also played him once in Mage: The Awakening. Again, a flop.

Why did he get along poorly? Because every game, he had the same backstory and driving plot element..his wife had been kidnapped and "ZOMG I want her back!1". He always totally ignored the DM's plot and tried to force the game in the direction of getting her back. If the DM incorporated it into the overall stroyline (as 3 out of 4 did), it didn't happen fast enough for dude's liking. And since he never got to fulfill his quest, he would try to play it again in one of the next couple of games.

He harped on it constantly in character. I kid you not, his favorite line was a variation of "I don't give a *various creative swear* about your war/quest/storyline element, I just want my wife back!". If he wasn't harping on that, he was getting drunk and babbling about it 'Magic Missile at the Darkness' style; "DM! Roll the dice to see if I'm getting DRUNK!" or "Okay, current RP doesn't relate to my wife so I'm bored..I go find a BAR!" That was literally it.

I was able to mostly ignore this for years, somehow. Though I have to admit, I sometimes got secret chuckles out of it.

While a few pages old I will point out that it sounds like your friend wants to play Harrison Ford in any of his more recent movies (except indiana jones)

[WeLoveFireballs]

I would like to introduce everyone to my former group:

Bob: Rules lawyer, optomization master, never bothered to look up "whip" and so made 2 attacks of oprotunity with his fire lash every time someone came up to him. Always uses a computer for character info. Never Rps. Never came up with any creative ideas.

Bob: Joined our group as a new player. We gave him plenty of advice and explained the rules as best we could. Never Rps. Needs advice every combat round to know that he should use scorching ray on the fire vulnerable target that everyone was using fire on. Never learned how to make a character.

Bob: Decent player, quiet, never rps.

DO YOU FEEL MY PAIN?

[Glass Mouse]

I do, Fireball, I do. Allow me to share in that pain (though in my case it's not so much the individuals - all save one were pretty nice - but more the constellation).

No. 1: Decent player, focusing on hack'n'slash. Played paperthin stereotypes, loved to roll dice, just needed the GM to point and say "go there". Joke machine.

No. 2: Nice dude who, after playing for four years still needed someone to tell him what his attack bonus was. Made a rogue with an elaborate background and personality that he never managed to roleplay.

No. 3: Picture-perfect player. Couldn't make it 2 out of 4 times.

No. 4: Picture-perfect player (focusing on rp). Couldn't make it 3 out of 4 times.

No. 5: Weird but nice dude who was only there for snacks and company. Was more often than not forced by his mom to go.

No. 6: Extremely bossy player who kept playing Lawful Anal paladins, True Anal druids or steampunk dwarves. Optimizer.

No. 7: Me. Decent player (I hope), focusing on rp.

That was an... interesting group.

[WeLoveFireballs]

oh yes and number 2 had been like that for 2 YEARS. And always quoted the same lines over and over and over and over... Really obscure and inappropriate ones too.

[Razgriez]

I shall present one of my least favorite situations, in "Real Men of Genius" style.....

Mr Chaotic Evil "Neutral" PC:

Spoiler

Show

Giant in the Playground Forums Presents: Real RPers of Genius..
Real RPers of Geeeeeenius

Today we salute you, Mr. Chaotic "Neutral" Player Character.
Mr. Chaotic Neutral Player Characteeeer!

In a party filled with good doers and Lawful Neutral players, you're the albatross who forcefully hangs your self around their necks. You constantly turn the most innocent of situations into a stroll through the 9th level of the Abyss
Watch out for the Devils!

Who cares that the PHB specifies that you attempt to avoid having to deal with any form of law and authority, because while the party discusses their next quest with the King, you're busy thinking of ways to kill the King and rule your own nation.
But regicide causes chaos!!!

You're crowning moment of cheese? That's simple, why it's the moment after you've caused an entire town of innocent people to burn, that the Paladin attacks you with a Smite evil attack, at which point, you unload half your chaotic spell caster's abilities to make an Ex-Paladin, ruining that player's game, while claiming that the Smite didn't work because your alignment is still Neutral.
My actions just have an evil side!

So here's to you, O master of hiding you're real alignment, and grab your self an ice cold Cure,Light... because you earned it, with the blood and tears of those you've ruined...
Mr. Chaotic Evil "Neutral" Guuuuuy

You know the type, their the one's who do everything they can to annoy Good aligned (particularly LG aligned). When they finally commit an action that causes another player to snap (see "Sir Osric" and "Luster" from Gamers 2) they break out their shield of "Not really evil, just Neutrally inclined to do evil acts", while calling you Lawful Stupid, before returning to doing everything they can to get you to break your class required code of honor.

[Sipex]

Every one of these presentations should be done to the format of a beer commercial.

[Combat Reflexes]

Every one of these presentations should be done to the format of a beer commercial.

Where have they hidden the Like button? Where? WHERE?

[BlackestOfMages]

I shall present one of my least favorite situations, in "Real Men of Genius" style.....

Mr Chaotic Evil "Neutral" PC:

Spoiler

Show

Giant in the Playground Forums Presents: Real RPers of Genius..
Real RPers of Geeeeeenius

Today we salute you, Mr. Chaotic "Neutral" Player Character.
Mr. Chaotic Neutral Player Characteeeer!

In a party filled with good doers and Lawful Neutral players, you're the albatross who forcefully hangs your self around their necks. You constantly turn the most innocent of situations into a stroll through the 9th level of the Abyss
Watch out for the Devils!

Who cares that the PHB specifies that you attempt to avoid having to deal with any form of law and authority, because while the party discusses their next quest with the King, you're busy thinking of ways to kill the King and rule your own nation.
But regicide causes chaos!!!

You're crowning moment of cheese? That's simple, why it's the moment after you've caused an entire town of innocent people to burn, that the Paladin attacks you with a Smite evil attack, at which point, you unload half your chaotic spell caster's abilities to make an Ex-Paladin, ruining that player's game, while claiming that the Smite didn't work because your alignment is still Neutral.
My actions just have an evil side!

So here's to you, O master of hiding you're real alignment, and grab your self an ice cold Cure,Light... because you earned it, with the blood and tears of those you've ruined...
Mr. Chaotic Evil "Neutral" Guuuuuy

You know the type, their the one's who do everything they can to annoy Good aligned (particularly LG aligned). When they finally commit an action that causes another player to snap (see "Sir Osric" and "Luster" from Gamers 2) they break out their shield of "Not really evil, just Neutrally inclined to do evil acts", while calling you Lawful Stupid, before returning to doing everything they can to get you to break your class required code of honor.

This, is what we call chaotic stupid

also, in that situation it when the DM:

Spoiler

Show

turns to the idiot, says sorry the smite evil worked because, oh look, your alignment CAN change depending on your actions, and guess what that last one did. sorry, you just died from the hit, as it has a jackass critical bonus, and mr pala still has his palading powers because he killed someone evil

[Hiro Protagonest]

I shall present one of my least favorite situations, in "Real Men of Genius" style.....

Mr Chaotic Evil "Neutral" PC:

Spoiler

Show

Giant in the Playground Forums Presents: Real RPers of Genius..
Real RPers of Geeeeeenius

Today we salute you, Mr. Chaotic "Neutral" Player Character.
Mr. Chaotic Neutral Player Characteeeer!

In a party filled with good doers and Lawful Neutral players, you're the albatross who forcefully hangs your self around their necks. You constantly turn the most innocent of situations into a stroll through the 9th level of the Abyss
Watch out for the Devils!

Who cares that the PHB specifies that you attempt to avoid having to deal with any form of law and authority, because while the party discusses their next quest with the King, you're busy thinking of ways to kill the King and rule your own nation.
But regicide causes chaos!!!

You're crowning moment of cheese? That's simple, why it's the moment after you've caused an entire town of innocent people to burn, that the Paladin attacks you with a Smite evil attack, at which point, you unload half your chaotic spell caster's abilities to make an Ex-Paladin, ruining that player's game, while claiming that the Smite didn't work because your alignment is still Neutral.
My actions just have an evil side!

So here's to you, O master of hiding you're real alignment, and grab your self an ice cold Cure,Light... because you earned it, with the blood and tears of those you've ruined...
Mr. Chaotic Evil "Neutral" Guuuuuy

You know the type, their the one's who do everything they can to annoy Good aligned (particularly LG aligned). When they finally commit an action that causes another player to snap (see "Sir Osric" and "Luster" from Gamers 2) they break out their shield of "Not really evil, just Neutrally inclined to do evil acts", while calling you Lawful Stupid, before returning to doing everything they can to get you to break your class required code of honor.

In the "gamers 2" (it's great, look it up on YouTube, some of the parts might look like they're in Spanish, but it's actually English with Spanish subtitles) the DM ruled that the guy was chaotic evil.

[Provengreil]

Every one of these presentations should be done to the format of a beer commercial.

Provengreil presents: Real Killers of Fun. (Real killers of fuuun)

Today we salute you, Mr. Character Repeat Guy! (Mr. Character Repeat Guy!)

Some say variety is the spice of life, but you fly in their face and eat plain. (taste the blandness!)

Nothing matches up to your overplayed, predictable character, quite like the one you played last time. (i've got deja vuuuu!)

Sometimes enough is never enough, and in your case, enough hasn't been enough for years on end.(i just can't let go!)

So go down a dwarven red-eye, oh monolith of monotony, because while you may never change, at least we can depend on it. (Mr. Character Repeat Guy!)

[Ashram]

@Razgriez: Fixed for you. :P

Mr. Chaotic "Neutral" Guy

Spoiler

Show

Giant in the Playground Forums Presents: Real Roleplayers of Genius...
Real Roleplayers of Geeeeeenius!

Today we salute you, Mr. Chaotic "Neutral" PC.
Mr. Chaotic Neutral Player Characteeeeer!

In a party filled with do-gooders and law-abiders, you're the albatross who forcefully hangs yourself around their necks. You constantly turn the most innocent of situations into a stroll through the ninth level of the Abyss.
Watch out for the demons!

Who cares that the PHB says that you try to avoid the law, authority figures and generally causing trouble for trouble's sake, because while the party discusses their next quest with the king, you're busy thinking of ways to kill the king just for laughs.
Stop metagaming and detecting my alignmeeeeeeeent!

Your crowning moment was the moment after you'd caused an entire town of innocent people to burn, when your paladin "buddy" tried to smite you and for good reason. You unloaded your chaotic spellcaster's abilities to make him fall, ruining that player's fun while claiming that the smite didn't work because your alignment is still Neutral.
My actions just have an evil side!

So here's to you, O master of hiding your real alignment, and grab yourself an ice-cold Cure Light; you've earned it. Because without you, Chaotic Neutral might actually be a fun alignment to play.
Mr. Chaotic Evil "Neutral" Guuuuuy!

[Tyndmyr]

It's pretty clear you don't want to involve this mythos in your setting, so if he insists on this, you just tell him straight up : "You can have your character BELIEVE whatever they want. However, the reality of this setting is that your continent, and your mythos, don't exist. They simply do not fit in the game I want to run."

If I were DMing such a character, his character could claim this as absolute fact. He might even be able to bluff people into buying his wild tales.

That doesn't mean it actually exists.

[Vladislav]

Or, you can just say, "In my setting, any God a player character believes in, exists and answers all their prayers."

Then, take a dramatic pause, and add, "Sometimes the answer is "no".

[Lonely Tylenol]

People who text or otherwise diddle about on their phones during a game, opting not to pay attention to a single iota of information about the game in the meantime; even worse, diddling about on their phone during combat, when the game not only freezes while we wait for them to realize it's your turn, but also so we can explain what happened since their last turn because they didn't once look up at the game board to see what was happening.

I played in a group with three of these people in it. None of them RP'd, ever, and none of them paid any attention to what was going on during combat, so each time one of their turns happened, we had to explain every move that had happened since their last turn, including things that happened in the intermittent explanations, because none of them paid attention when we were recapping for the other person who wasn't paying attention, who was on the initiative two spaces before them. The fights from that game are ingrained into my memory now, not because every round was a feat of epic proportions, but because for every move and attack action declared, there were three re-tellings of it to clear it up for the inattentive ones.

If nobody rolls that up into a beer commercial parody, I'll think of something in the... Er, in the afternoon. It's 6:30 AM and I just realized I haven't gone to sleep yet.

[Provengreil]

i'm entirely sure that one's been mentioned already, but as for the beer commercial i'll take a stab at it.


Provengreil presents: Real Killers of Fun. (Real killers of fuuun)

Today we salute you, Mr. Can't put Down the Phone Guy! (Mr. Can't put Down the Phone Guy!)

When you sit down at the table, you've got a full charge and a lot of friends that aren't here you need to talk to.(can you hear me now?)

Roleplaying? who has time for that? just move your character on your turn, after you get the rundown on everything that just happened. (why am I on fire?)

It's not like your friends care. after all, you're spending time with them, right?(are you even listening?)

So go down a dwarven red-eye, oh Cell phone Capone, because while you make time for everyone, we make twice as much for you. (Mr. Can't put Down the Phone Guy!)

[Gamer Girl]

The Nerf Mentality(Note:We are not talking about Nerf in the traditional role-playing definition, we are talking about the ''making things out of soft foam so that no one could ever get hurt.''

This is the player, or worse DM, that goes for the Nerf Mentality. That is a game as about as dangerous as a Disney show or a rated Y cartoon. This is where no one would ever have a character die, and everything always works out in the end.

This can get so bad that when a character is down to like three hit points and a monster is ready to attack, the monster will suddenly either go away or just knock the character out.

On the player side they will say that they can only have fun and develop a character in a Nerf Game, as they want to know their character can never die.

[AsteriskAmp]

The Nerf Mentality(Note:We are not talking about Nerf in the traditional role-playing definition, we are talking about the ''making things out of soft foam so that no one could ever get hurt.''

This is the player, or worse DM, that goes for the Nerf Mentality. That is a game as about as dangerous as a Disney show or a rated Y cartoon. This is where no one would ever have a character die, and everything always works out in the end.

This can get so bad that when a character is down to like three hit points and a monster is ready to attack, the monster will suddenly either go away or just knock the character out.

On the player side they will say that they can only have fun and develop a character in a Nerf Game, as they want to know their character can never die.

This is dependant on play style. Some would rather have their character die, others do not, there are arguments for both sides either way, and in a systemless enviroment (the vacuum), there is no case to be made. DnD is definitely on the kill the PCs but later revive them or in the worst case reincarnate them, Paranoia has spares, Call of Cthulu is ... different... and to each system a different mentality, this is also a player and DM mentality, it's not necessarily bad, just different.

[big teej]

Did you kick him out, or kill him?

answer

Spoiler

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it was a her, and telling that story could potentially derail the thread.

it's almost right up there with that infamous 'cops were called' story.


but to answer your question, she lives. if you can call it living.

...

that doesn't sound much better does it?


let me try again.
she doesn't have much of a social life.

on topic:

mister "I want to put things into my background that nobody at the table (including me) is comfortable with coming up in game, and I expect it to come up in game"

potential "things"
sexual activities
physical/traumatic events
slavery
etc.

[Knaight]

This is dependant on play style. Some would rather have their character die, others do not, there are arguments for both sides either way, and in a systemless enviroment (the vacuum), there is no case to be made.

Even in systems where characters can't die easily, it is assumed that bad stuff can still happen. There are ways to fail other than to die, and things to lose other than your life, and the Nerf Mentality removes the lot of them.

[AsteriskAmp]

Even in systems where characters can't die easily, it is assumed that bad stuff can still happen. There are ways to fail other than to die, and things to lose other than your life, and the Nerf Mentality removes the lot of them.

But it is dependant on playstyle, some may want a super-powered epic, were the PCs challenge are the BBEGs, and though challenging, death is hard. Nerf mentality is annoying when DM and players don't sync in regards to the, I'm hesitant to call it, lethality level, but otherwise, it's not an actual habit, it's the unsynching that is the problem.

I for example would rather not kill, give unrecoverable negative levels or damage ability scores, but I wouldn't mind stripping them and challenging them. The problem is when the DM wants the fluffy unicorn campaign and the player wants the ultra-lethal papercut=death campaign.

[Choco]

mister "I want to put things into my background that nobody at the table (including me) is comfortable with coming up in game, and I expect it to come up in game"

potential "things"
sexual activities
physical/traumatic events
slavery
etc.

Heh, yeah, that is quite hilarious. And it reminds me of:

The DM Who Can't Keep a Secret-You put things into your background that the rest of the party and/or everyone else in the game world does not know, fully expecting them to be outed eventually. However, you are lucky if this DM doesn't out you the first session. To make matters worse, he does it in such a poor way that the revelation of your character's deepest and darkest secret, possibly his driving force, is not dramatic in the slightest.

Examples:
I was playing a changeling who was disguised as a human. About 3 sessions and one random AMF later...
Another player was playing a female character disguised as a man. In the first session the DM made sure the party had a good look...
Another player's character was running away from some evil organization he betrayed in the past. 2nd session an agent shows up and monologues the whole backstory to the party.

All things that would have been awesome to reveal during a dramatic moment after at least a few months (or even years!) of RL gaming, ruined by a DM with a bad sense for the dramatic. Elan would not be pleased...

Another one:

The "Write It and Forget It" DM-The DM who asks for a detailed backstory from all the players, and then never uses any of them in game. Our characters may as well have spawned into existence the day they started adventuring. Not that I mind that if it is that type of game, but WHY make us waste our time...

[The Glyphstone]

The Nerf Mentality(Note:We are not talking about Nerf in the traditional role-playing definition, we are talking about the ''making things out of soft foam so that no one could ever get hurt.''

This is the player, or worse DM, that goes for the Nerf Mentality. That is a game as about as dangerous as a Disney show or a rated Y cartoon. This is where no one would ever have a character die, and everything always works out in the end.

This can get so bad that when a character is down to like three hit points and a monster is ready to attack, the monster will suddenly either go away or just knock the character out.

On the player side they will say that they can only have fun and develop a character in a Nerf Game, as they want to know their character can never die.

Or for contrast,

The Meatgrinder Mentality

This is the player, or worse, DM, who is locked in the mindset of 'older=better'. They only consider games that follow the Basic or AD&D mindset of random, unavoidable death to be fun, and complain constantly about any game after Edition X, where X is the edition they first learned.

This can get so bad that it transforms into blatant railroading, or Rocks Fall You Die; the DM doesn't care that your barbarian has 200 HP, he didn't spot the pit trap and breaks his neck falling down the 20ft. pit. No player should bother increasing their saving throws, because the DC of save-or-die spells and poison arrows is "no, not even on a 20".

On the player side, they will say they can only have fun and develop a character in a Meatgrinder game, and frequently mock or deride players who like having things like resurrection magic. Terms like "realistic" and "gritty" are thrown about frequently.

[big teej]

Heh, yeah, that is quite hilarious. And it reminds me of:

The DM Who Can't Keep a Secret-You put things into your background that the rest of the party and/or everyone else in the game world does not know, fully expecting them to be outed eventually. However, you are lucky if this DM doesn't out you the first session. To make matters worse, he does it in such a poor way that the revelation of your character's deepest and darkest secret, possibly his driving force, is not dramatic in the slightest.

Examples:
I was playing a changeling who was disguised as a human. About 3 sessions and one random AMF later...
Another player was playing a female character disguised as a man. In the first session the DM made sure the party had a good look...
Another player's character was running away from some evil organization he betrayed in the past. 2nd session an agent shows up and monologues the whole backstory to the party.

All things that would have been awesome to reveal during a dramatic moment after at least a few months (or even years!) of RL gaming, ruined by a DM with a bad sense for the dramatic. Elan would not be pleased...

Another one:

The "Write It and Forget It" DM-The DM who asks for a detailed backstory from all the players, and then never uses any of them in game. Our characters may as well have spawned into existence the day they started adventuring. Not that I mind that if it is that type of game, but WHY make us waste our time...

to be fair, some backgrounds are harder to use than others.

much less introduce in a dramatically appropriate manner.

much less have the party pick up on its importance.

though how I'm not sure if it's my fault that the party didn't sit up and take notice that one of their members is royalty on the run......

I mean, I threw it right in their faces. (it's even going to drive the next major plot arc.)

[Lhurgyof]

One I'm guilty of.

The Brutal DM: Yep, the DM that throws intelligent, high-CR monsters at you, and causes it to be a high-lethality game. Especially bad if you weren't warned. This is also very, VERY hard when paired with the below:

Mr. Stingy: You know this guy. No treasure, no loot, and very little XP. Likes to throw Traps and monsters of average CR at you, even though you're undergeared.

I warned my players that my game was going to be a horror, high-lethality game though. :P

[Silus]

Mr. Stinks at Improv DM: Has no concept of improv storytelling and can't piece together a storyline on the fly to save his life. (not factoring in planned storytelling though)

Example: Had one guy like this. First session was great. Within the first five minutes, two of the PC's were married (with a very Honeymooner's mentality), then we save a bar owner (who we then swindled for 70% of his profits, causing a heart attack and letting us own the bar), followed shortly by stumbling upon a garrison of orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears and ogres (they were renovating it for their masters who were coming for an inspection). Destroyed the garrison by convincing half the warriors/workers to unionize.

Then the second session rolls around. I forget what happened in the order it happened in, but Asmodeus himself showed up (yeah, the King of Hell), then there was a T-Rex or something...I dunno. It was a mess, and I'm thinking the other players were going "WTF is he doing?"

[Figgin of Chaos]

it's almost right up there with that infamous 'cops were called' story.

I keep hearing about that story on these forums, but I've never managed to find and read it myself. Is it still recorded somewhere?

[Ghost6442]

Mr. Stinks at Improv DM: Has no concept of improv storytelling and can't piece together a storyline on the fly to save his life. (not factoring in planned storytelling though)

Then there is the flip side, the DM who can't prepare before the game, and everything is on the fly, and only has a basic understanding of the rules...

this only seems to work well with 4ed...

[Knaight]

Then there is the flip side, the DM who can't prepare before the game, and everything is on the fly, and only has a basic understanding of the rules...

this only seems to work well with 4ed...

If you know the rules, and they are simple enough you can improvise everything.

[Firechanter]

Yeah, both Disney-Nerf and Meatgrinder are playing styles I dislike. I guess the gist of it is for me that player actions should have consequences, both positive and negative. In Nerf games the PCs win no matter what, and in Meatgrinder games they die no matter what. Either would kinda make me wonder what am I actually doing there.

[Ghost6442]

If you know the rules, and they are simple enough you can improvise everything.

Including your own doom... ah good times...