Habits that kill fun in a session.

[Occasional Sage]

Might I suggest moving Critical Failure Tables/Systems into the domain of Unknown Knowledge?

[Choco]

Mr. Can't Handle Failure-This guy doesn't handle any kind of failure on his part well. If one of his plans does not go perfectly, or better, then obviously the DM is purposely sabotaging him. If he fails a skill check, he argues for half an hour or more about various random circumstance bonuses that should stack until his roll was just enough to succeed. God help you if he rolls a 1....

[Notreallyhere77]

Mr. Can't Handle Failure-This guy doesn't handle any kind of failure on his part well. If one of his plans does not go perfectly, or better, then obviously the DM is purposely sabotaging him. If he fails a skill check, he argues for half an hour or more about various random circumstance bonuses that should stack until his roll was just enough to succeed. God help you if he rolls a 1....

I have a guy like that, but he only tries to enhance his die roll if it's 4 off or less.

[big teej]

Mr. Can't Handle Failure-This guy doesn't handle any kind of failure on his part well. If one of his plans does not go perfectly, or better, then obviously the DM is purposely sabotaging him. If he fails a skill check, he argues for half an hour or more about various random circumstance bonuses that should stack until his roll was just enough to succeed. God help you if he rolls a 1....

I had this guy.

the adventure took place in the sewer. he said "I jump down into the sewer"
me: you jump?
player: yes
me: roll balance.
player: nerdrage zombwtfbbqfury!
me: -not willing to get into it this early in the session- "whatever. you jump down."


actions have consequences people.

[RandomNPC]

The What do you mean you didn't buy the expansions? DM
I recently picked up Exodus. Basic book, straight from the website, and I explained, if someone wanted to buy another book and show it to me, I'd be fine letting them play it if they'd share. Two new gamers, a guy and girl, the guy shows up with a human looking character with dark vision, and scent. It didn't seem to broken and we're a casual group. Dudes girlfriend wants to DM, so I let her take a few games. Needless to say we leveled up, except she mentions the other mutant doesn't. (I assume the guy she came with knew already)

I waited until everyone left and asked on facebook about the mutant thing in a private group only our game group sees. Not only does my most mellow friend get accused of an ego trip that she refuses to re-write the rules for, but I get a bunch of WTF from her about it, because I should know, I bought the first book and got everyone into it.

It's also turning into a "Sit here and watch me RP" with the guy that came with her, but that's our fault for various reasons, mostly slacking in the RP department.

[DontEatRawHagis]

I had this guy.

the adventure took place in the sewer. he said "I jump down into the sewer"
me: you jump?
player: yes
me: roll balance.
player: nerdrage zombwtfbbqfury!
me: -not willing to get into it this early in the session- "whatever. you jump down."


actions have consequences people.

Depending. I've had to roll for walking up stairs. Thats not Nerd rage that is:

Mr. Everything Fails at least 1/20 times DM
You brush your teeth, roll to see if you succeed. Take ten is not in this DM's vocab. I've had to roll for too much stuff thats not necessary. Maybe it is reading a language you know or setting up a tent. There is plenty of time to set up a tent in the middle of no-where I can take the extra 5 seconds it takes to accurately hammer in a stake.

In a few games I play they at least make mention that rolling should be left for important or dangerous checks. Anything in combat always has to be roll except for a few exceptions, because you can't take 10. Outside of combat unless your doing a Knowledge or special action(such as climbing a tree maybe).

This leads to the next problem:
Mr. 20 is always a success -
Even if the dc is 150 to shoot a sniper shot into the king's head while he is in the throne room. He rolls a 20, "OMG I killed him!". Shooting five hundred feet through solid stone and concrete with no line of sight is not enough to be represented as a 1 out of 20 chance.

[big teej]

Depending. I've had to roll for walking up stairs. Thats not Nerd rage that is:

Mr. Everything Fails at least 1/20 times DM
You brush your teeth, roll to see if you succeed. Take ten is not in this DM's vocab. I've had to roll for too much stuff thats not necessary. Maybe it is reading a language you know or setting up a tent. There is plenty of time to set up a tent in the middle of no-where I can take the extra 5 seconds it takes to accurately hammer in a stake.

In a few games I play they at least make mention that rolling should be left for important or dangerous checks. Anything in combat always has to be roll except for a few exceptions, because you can't take 10. Outside of combat unless your doing a Knowledge or special action(such as climbing a tree maybe).

This leads to the next problem:
Mr. 20 is always a success -
Even if the dc is 150 to shoot a sniper shot into the king's head while he is in the throne room. He rolls a 20, "OMG I killed him!". Shooting five hundred feet through solid stone and concrete with no line of sight is not enough to be represented as a 1 out of 20 chance.

eh, I feel like a balance check of some sort is warranted if you deliberately jump 10 feet down onto an unknown surface.
taking 10 woulda been fine. would have turned out poorly due to armor penalty, but he coulda done it.

as for Mr. 20 is always a success.
I had a whole group of people like that. and then I gave them the following example. they no longer hold the view.

I told them "a natural 20 does not gurantee an automatic success on a skill check. the DC to WALK ON A CLOUD is one hundred and twenty. if rolling a natural 20 is an auto success, you can succeed on walking on a cloud 5% of the time, or 1 out of 20... does anyone here think that's kosher?"

[Choco]

I told them "a natural 20 does not gurantee an automatic success on a skill check. the DC to WALK ON A CLOUD is one hundred and twenty. if rolling a natural 20 is an auto success, you can succeed on walking on a cloud 5% of the time, or 1 out of 20... does anyone here think that's kosher?"

It is if THEY want to do it, but no one else is allowed.

Cause some people are:

Mr. I Operate Under A Different Set of Rules-This guy LOVES things like critical fumbles, critical hits, insta-successes on a 20, insta-kills on a triple 20, etc. That is, until they are on the receiving end of any of that. Then of course it is completely not fair.

[Shadowknight12]

Cause some people are:

Mr. I Operate Under A Different Set of Rules-This guy LOVES things like critical fumbles, critical hits, insta-successes on a 20, insta-kills on a triple 20, etc. That is, until they are on the receiving end of any of that. Then of course it is completely not fair.

You've already mentioned that one. Repeatedly.

[DontEatRawHagis]

This thread is over 40 pages, I think there has been a lot of repeats. I think I posted three that were all the same.

Mr. Next-Person-to-GM:
While your playing the campaign this guy is always talking to himself. At first you think he is just bipolar or disturbed in someway. Then you realize he only talks when someone is asking for a rules call. He is saying exactly what he would do if he was GMing. Oh you want to try to kill someone with your mind. "Impossible with your skill set"

[big teej]

some things bear reapeating.

repeatedly.

[Traab]

1) DM who puts the game on pause for 10+ minutes at a time to look through the rules instead of making a judgment call (my rule of thumb is if I can't find the rule in 1 minute I just call it, with all the player's agreement, and carry on the game, and I NEVER consult the rules during a dramatic moment).

2) Players/DM's who take FOREVER taking their turns. At our table you have 1 minute to determine what you do, if you can't then you skip your turn. If performing your action itself takes 10 minutes that's fine (AKA making 10 attacks, each with different/stacking modifiers to take into account, etc.).

3) Players/DM's who insist on always hogging the spotlight. Everyone needs their time in the spotlight, so when it's shining on you feel free to ham it up. However, when you feel the need to always be the one in the spotlight, we have a problem.

4) DM's who completely ignore some aspect of my character that I invested points into. Those same DM's then have a habit of getting annoyed that everyone only invests in things that make them better in combat.

5) High-CHA-PC-having players that never let any other PC talk to anyone else. You want to talk to your own mother? Better have Mr. High-CHA do it else you might mess it up!

6) Low-CHA-PC-having players that insist on impulsively trying to do delicate negotiations without consulting anyone in the party. Of course once they screw everything up, they look to Mr. High-CHA and say "you have all the charisma and social skills, why don't you talk to him?"

7) Chaotic Stupid (often directly related to #6) and Lawful Anal PC's/players.

8) People who are in general not team players. The game is all about them and they will walk all over everyone else to get what they want, but God forbid someone does it back to them (or even tries to stop them from doing it). This applies to players and DM's.

9) DM's who pull Diablos-Ex-Machina out of left field just because your plan is going too well. I don't mind complications to even almost perfect plans, except when it is obvious the DM threw them in there just specifically to not make it too easy for you. At least try to hide it!

10) Players who don't bother cracking open a rulebook outside of the game, and thus do all their shopping/lvling decisions during our bi-weekly session. Of course it takes up the whole session, doing nothing but wasting my time since I obviously need not have bothered showing up. This is especially infuriating when the DM specifically tells them to do this between sessions and they ignore him.

11) When the party splits and they take so long doing their individual things that I don't even get to play during the session and am nothing but a spectator. I could have surfed the web for 6 hours on my laptop at home without having to drive half an hour .

/whistles innocently.

[Silus]

8) People who are in general not team players. The game is all about them and they will walk all over everyone else to get what they want, but God forbid someone does it back to them (or even tries to stop them from doing it). This applies to players and DM's.

Also falling under that category are those that break from combat to loot for non-combat reasons (Like looting a few pocketfuls of gold from a chest) and those that go off on their own with or without telling the party.

[Choco]

You've already mentioned that one. Repeatedly.

Well yeah, some things need more venting then others to get out completely

DM's who let you take certain skills/feats, then tell you that you can't use them-The worst example I have seen of this was actually on this forum like 2-3 years ago. Someone had a fighter that specialized in archery, took all sorts of archery and bow related feats, and then the DM didn't let him start with a bow because they were not available in that area. How would this character have gotten all this bow training if there were no bows available? If the DM didn't want ranged characters, why not just say so instead of making a character completely useless?

[Traab]

Well yeah, some things need more venting then others to get out completely

DM's who let you take certain skills/feats, then tell you that you can't use them-The worst example I have seen of this was actually on this forum like 2-3 years ago. Someone had a fighter that specialized in archery, took all sorts of archery and bow related feats, and then the DM didn't let him start with a bow because they were not available in that area. How would this character have gotten all this bow training if there were no bows available? If the DM didn't want ranged characters, why not just say so instead of making a character completely useless?

That actually reminds me of a story on this forum of some guy who created a character with an effect he needed a potion to cure constantly, and he had an alchemy bonus solely for that purpose. The dm agreed to it, then proceeded to make him trip and fall, shattering all his available potion, then while in town trying to craft more, tried to make him fail everything, and when THAT didnt work, he had the town decide he was a witch and attack him.

[Hiro Protagonest]

That actually reminds me of a story on this forum of some guy who created a character with an effect he needed a potion to cure constantly, and he had an alchemy bonus solely for that purpose. The dm agreed to it, then proceeded to make him trip and fall, shattering all his available potion, then while in town trying to craft more, tried to make him fail everything, and when THAT didnt work, he had the town decide he was a witch and attack him.

Wasn't that with Lanky and PsychoDM? It was linked way back in this thread somewhere.

[Traab]

Wasn't that with Lanky and PsychoDM? It was linked way back in this thread somewhere.

Might have been, There are so many horror story topics on this forum that its hard to keep them all straight.

This one may have been done before, (hell, it almost definately was)

"Its My Way, Or The Highway" This is the guy who will not tolerate ANY argument or discussion over rules disputes, possible bonuses, background stories, inventive uses of in game items or abilities, or anything else. He makes a decision and wont even consider other options. "If you dont like it, leave!" is the most common response. Yeah the dm has final say, but the players are people too, and they also want to enjoy the game.

[Choco]

"Its My Way, Or The Highway" This is the guy who will not tolerate ANY argument or discussion over rules disputes, possible bonuses, background stories, inventive uses of in game items or abilities, or anything else. He makes a decision and wont even consider other options. "If you dont like it, leave!" is the most common response. Yeah the dm has final say, but the players are people too, and they also want to enjoy the game.

What's even more annoying is when a PLAYER does this. Usually it is the group's usual DM that just can't give up the reins. Perhaps this guy deserves his own entry (which I am sure was mentioned in one form or another before too)....

Mr. Not Currently DM But Not Really-This guy is the group's regular DM, but has taken a break from it and is now a player in another person's game. Except he still feels and acts as if he has DM "Rule 0" authority over all disputes and even tries to strong-arm the current DM into doing things his way.

[Traab]

What's even more annoying is when a PLAYER does this. Usually it is the group's usual DM that just can't give up the reins. Perhaps this guy deserves his own entry (which I am sure was mentioned in one form or another before too)....

Mr. Not Currently DM But Not Really-This guy is the group's regular DM, but has taken a break from it and is now a player in another person's game. Except he still feels and acts as if he has DM "Rule 0" authority over all disputes and even tries to strong-arm the current DM into doing things his way.

Other possibility is, its that guys house. "Do it my way or leave" Or he is the driver for a couple people, "Do it my way or I leave and take them with me." Basically, anyone in a position to make things difficult or impossible for others.

[Notreallyhere77]

Wasn't that with Lanky and PsychoDM? It was linked way back in this thread somewhere.

Yes. Yes it was. And after he talked the townspeople out of lynching him for witchery (in a world where wizards, clerics, and bards were not unknown as heroes), the inn's owner destroyed the alchemy equipment. And that was when things went really bad out-of-game.

[navar100]

9) DM's who pull Diablos-Ex-Machina out of left field just because your plan is going too well. I don't mind complications to even almost perfect plans, except when it is obvious the DM threw them in there just specifically to not make it too easy for you. At least try to hide it!

My DM does this all the time. I still remember the most obvious case. We were in a large dungeon room, outnumbered 3 to 1 as usual. Our Cerebremancer casts Wall of Force across the room, preventing the archers from firing upon us and allowing the rest of us to deal with the now much smaller number of enemies on our side of the wall. It was brilliant!

How "convenient" the enemy archers happened to have Wall of Force nusting arrows. One arrow doesn't get rid of the Wall. Rather, the archers could attack the wall, damaging it. With enough damage a hole is made, so we got a few rounds of not being outnumbered before the wall became useless.

WTF!

Why didn't the DM just have an enemy wizard cast Disintegrate on it? The DM was caught off guard. A difficult combat became a cakewalk. Can't have that. Give a few rounds of cake for the ingenuity then continue the choo choo. Wall of Force piercing arrows had to be the first thing to pop in his mind.

When we finally won the battle there were a few of those arrows left for treasure. We used them a few adventures later.

[BRC]

My DM does this all the time. I still remember the most obvious case. We were in a large dungeon room, outnumbered 3 to 1 as usual. Our Cerebremancer casts Wall of Force across the room, preventing the archers from firing upon us and allowing the rest of us to deal with the now much smaller number of enemies on our side of the wall. It was brilliant!

How "convenient" the enemy archers happened to have Wall of Force nusting arrows. One arrow doesn't get rid of the Wall. Rather, the archers could attack the wall, damaging it. With enough damage a hole is made, so we got a few rounds of not being outnumbered before the wall became useless.

WTF!

Why didn't the DM just have an enemy wizard cast Disintegrate on it? The DM was caught off guard. A difficult combat became a cakewalk. Can't have that. Give a few rounds of cake for the ingenuity then continue the choo choo. Wall of Force piercing arrows had to be the first thing to pop in his mind.

When we finally won the battle there were a few of those arrows left for treasure. We used them a few adventures later.

I actually agree with your DM's decision here. He rewarded you for your ingenuity without allowing it to trivialize the encounter. Had he left the wall in place, then the encounter is too easy, had he simply destroyed it, then he's discouraging you from trying to use any tactics beyond "Hit them until they fall down". You still got an advantage from using the wall, but not enough of one to turn the encounter into a cakewalk.
Now, giving the archers "Anti wall of force" arrows isn't the method I would use (Personally, if I hadn't given an enemy wizard Disintegrate, I would have him spend a couple rounds throwing non-specific magic at it to bring it down), but I agree on principle.

[Knaight]

I actually agree with your DM's decision here. He rewarded you for your ingenuity without allowing it to trivialize the encounter. Had he left the wall in place, then the encounter is too easy, had he simply destroyed it, then he's discouraging you from trying to use any tactics beyond "Hit them until they fall down". You still got an advantage from using the wall, but not enough of one to turn the encounter into a cakewalk.
Now, giving the archers "Anti wall of force" arrows isn't the method I would use (Personally, if I hadn't given an enemy wizard Disintegrate, I would have him spend a couple rounds throwing non-specific magic at it to bring it down), but I agree on principle.

If the architecture was at all reasonable, the archers could probably have just moved around the wall anyways. As for wall penetrating arrows, those seem like a good thing to have around anyways, and if the archers were previously established as well prepared and well equipped they make perfect sense.

[Maximus:Ranger]

Ok first of all I'd like to apologize for accindently trying to start a thread similar to this one in case I offended anyone.

Also something that REALLY irritates me, is players who are almost NPCs.
Now I'm not talking about people who have just started tabletop gaming because alot of them are just adjusting to playing and developing their style of play. I'm talking about players who tell you that they want to have a more immersive game and then do nothing. Say I put a PC in a gladiator arena and in between matches he has the opportunity to talk to the other inmates or try to escape and he just sits around waiting for the next fight.

To that I say 1.) Don't ask for an immersive game if you're not going to interact at all
And
2.)You do have to take some initiative to RP I can't do it for you

[Honest Tiefling]

Actually, in the case of the Force Wall, I think I would agree with navar100, unless there is some sort of magic item I am missing. Changing the rules of magic for encounters is one thing that greatly annoys me as suddenly I feel like I am no longer in control of my character's abilities and I have no idea what my spells will actually do.

[Kefkafreak]

It may not be very original, but I hate immature Chaotic Stupid PCs that keep doing stupid things like trying to steal 200.000 gp items from a shop at level 1 (trying to kill the shopkeeper in the process). There's no good way to solve such situations in a story-driven campaign; if you kill them you're punishing the other players too (not to mention the next character they play will be another Chaotic Stupid), and if you don't they keep doing stuff like that.

[Morty]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned, but overly cautious players annoy me a bit. They go "why should we do that? It's dangerous!" every time something comes up. I mean, it is a perfectly valid line of reasoning, but when your character is an adventurer... yeah. And it ends with PCs sitting around and wondering what to do since they've refused to swallow the plot hook.
Money-grubbers also can be aggravating. Haggling over two gold pieces in a D&D game is, quite honestly, pointless. Sure, you'll save some money if you do that every time you buy or sell anything. But you'll waste hours of precious time.
Discussing the rules in the middle of a session was discussed to death, I guess. So I'll also mention a player who, when we were attacked, insisted on ditching his shield and grabbing a mining pick to dual wield. Never mind that he didn't have the Ambidexterity talent(we're playing 2nd edition WFRP) and a pick is an extremely clumsy weapon even when wielded two-handed. Luckily, we talked him out of it.

[Choco]

Ok first of all I'd like to apologize for accindently trying to start a thread similar to this one in case I offended anyone.

Also something that REALLY irritates me, is players who are almost NPCs.
Now I'm not talking about people who have just started tabletop gaming because alot of them are just adjusting to playing and developing their style of play. I'm talking about players who tell you that they want to have a more immersive game and then do nothing. Say I put a PC in a gladiator arena and in between matches he has the opportunity to talk to the other inmates or try to escape and he just sits around waiting for the next fight.

To that I say 1.) Don't ask for an immersive game if you're not going to interact at all
And
2.)You do have to take some initiative to RP I can't do it for you

Don't worry it's not that it is offensive to do that, the mods just like to keep the forums as clean as possible and one of the things they do is merge and/or remove duplicates.

And yeah, I had an entire group of those players actually. They complained that my campaign was just from one combat to the next (which was true, I did that on purpose because they didn't seem interested in RPing when we started), and so I went out of my way to flesh out the world and make it more immersive. And of course just like your player they just sat around waiting for me to do something.... They had listened to some podcast and pointed out how much fun that group was having RPing, but seemed to give me blank looks when I pointed out that it was the PLAYERS that initiated all the fun and interesting RP....

Also, may as well bring up one that I am guilty of (and yes, variations of this were mentioned before!):

The guy who uses logic and physics to create situations that can be handled using related game rules-That in and of itself isn't usually bad because it helps the DM by pointing them to similar rules they can use as reference. However, when all sorts of math gets involved, thats when some DM's get pissed....

Me: "I am capable of flying at 500 feet per 6 seconds if I spend a full round, so if I ram into that guy going at that speed, how much damage will I do to us? If we just calculate how far you had to have fallen to reach that speed we can just use the falling damage rules..."
DM: "I flipping hate you"

[Iceforge]

The guy who uses logic and physics to create situations that can be handled using related game rules-That in and of itself isn't usually bad because it helps the DM by pointing them to similar rules they can use as reference. However, when all sorts of math gets involved, thats when some DM's get pissed....

Me: "I am capable of flying at 500 feet per 6 seconds if I spend a full round, so if I ram into that guy going at that speed, how much damage will I do to us? If we just calculate how far you had to have fallen to reach that speed we can just use the falling damage rules..."
DM: "I flipping hate you"

I had one player do that, and while not sure I am entirely grounded in my understanding of physics, this response at least shut him op:

Me(DM):"Well, aint the falling damage an expression of the total kinetic energy of the fall sudden stopping? If you fly into someone at that speed, you won't go from your current speed to 0 in an instant, as you will simply push the opponent along with you, so if you truly want to do that out with maths instead of me handwaving it, I will require you to calculate with your speed and total mass vs his total mass and friction agains tthe ground, to calculate which speed you will be pushing him and then we can compare the differences in speed with falling speeds at various distances to use the falling rules"

[Knaight]

I'm rather fond of the "simulationist rules are inevitably intended to evoke standards of a genre over what is real, as what is being simulated is the sort of world that leads to certain stories being told. Said certain stories tend to treat science in inexact terms, physics included" approach.