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  1. - Top - End - #1471
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    137beth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    If they rolled a natural 1 on their tumble check, I'd say they landed on the monster, who, as an immediate reaction, got to attempt to knock them into the pit.

  2. - Top - End - #1472
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Natural one always fails!

    Even on skill checks, That's ALL skill checks. Also you can't take ten ever.
    Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
    Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
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  3. - Top - End - #1473
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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    If they rolled a natural 1 on their tumble check, I'd say they landed on the monster, who, as an immediate reaction, got to attempt to knock them into the pit.
    Natural 1 isn't automatic fail.
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  4. - Top - End - #1474
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Some DMs houserule it to be. Either way, 1 is bad.
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  5. - Top - End - #1475
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Not always. I once body slammed the earth and rolled a one. I had flight at level five without a full casting class.
    Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
    Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
    Thread wins: 2

  6. - Top - End - #1476
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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winds View Post
    Some DMs houserule it to be. Either way, 1 is bad.
    Here's why using the crit/fumble rules for skills are bad.

    Crit: swimming up a waterfall is a suitable use for swim, and walking on a cloud is suitable for balance, as presented in the epic level handbook. A commoner with no training can do that 1/20 times.

    Fumble: a legendary swordsmith (level 20, max skill ranks, skill focus) can completely and utterly fail to make a simple knife 1/20 times.
    Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2011-08-21 at 08:25 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #1477
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    Beholder

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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose View Post
    Here's why using the crit/fumble rules for skills are bad.

    Crit: swimming up a waterfall is a suitable use for swim, and walking on a cloud is suitable for balance, as presented in the epic level handbook. A commoner with no training can do that 1/20 times.

    Fumble: a legendary swordsmith (level 20, max skill ranks, skill focus) can completely and utterly fail to make a simple knife 1/20 times.
    Or crit fumble tables on attacks. Just because most of them are rediculous.

    Ex.: "1? Roll again. 20? Roll again. 20? Insta-kill self. Sorry."

    Also, this means that the level 30 barbarian is going to fumble his weapon every few seconds.
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  8. - Top - End - #1478
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyfeld View Post
    The "You didn't say that" GM: This is the GM that only reactions explicitly off of what you say, instead of using a little logic and taking the initiative to assume the PC's baser actions.

    Player: I slowly peer around the corner.
    GM: You see a blank hallway with a couple doors at the far end, on either side of the hall.
    Player: Alright, I carefully make my way down the hall.
    GM: You step on a pressure plate, setting off an arrow trap! Roll a reflex save.
    Player: Wait, what?? I have a +20 Search modifier, why didn't I see the trap before triggering it??
    GM: You didn't say you were looking for traps.
    Player: I've been searching for traps through this entire dungeon!!! I'm a rogue for christ sake!!
    GM: Then I guess you'll say it next time. Roll your reflex save.
    Oh god, this, a thousand times this. I'm in a campaign like this, and while he's a good DM in other aspects, it does drive me nuts. For most things, it's not even a test of any actual skill, just remembering to say the rote lines.

  9. - Top - End - #1479
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    Oracle_Hunter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Quote Originally Posted by icefractal View Post
    Oh god, this, a thousand times this. I'm in a campaign like this, and while he's a good DM in other aspects, it does drive me nuts. For most things, it's not even a test of any actual skill, just remembering to say the rote lines.
    My usual retort is "shall I remind you that I'm still breathing every round?" As a result, none of my characters have suffocated so far

    Also: 50 pages? Man, I never expected this thread to get to here. Someone should think about creating a new thread.
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  10. - Top - End - #1480
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    137beth's Avatar

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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Natural 1 isn't automatic fail.
    I know, I meant that if they rolled a natural 1, which resulted in a fail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose View Post
    Here's why using the crit/fumble rules for skills are bad.

    Crit: swimming up a waterfall is a suitable use for swim, and walking on a cloud is suitable for balance, as presented in the epic level handbook. A commoner with no training can do that 1/20 times.

    Fumble: a legendary swordsmith (level 20, max skill ranks, skill focus) can completely and utterly fail to make a simple knife 1/20 times.
    I prefer to play with the alternate system presented in ELH: If you get a natural 20, roll again and add 20. If you get a natural 1, roll again and subtract 20. Under this system, the commoner needs 4 natural 20s in a row, for only a 1/160000 chance.

  11. - Top - End - #1481
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftmongoose View Post
    Here's why using the crit/fumble rules for skills are bad.

    Crit: swimming up a waterfall is a suitable use for swim, and walking on a cloud is suitable for balance, as presented in the epic level handbook. A commoner with no training can do that 1/20 times.

    Fumble: a legendary swordsmith (level 20, max skill ranks, skill focus) can completely and utterly fail to make a simple knife 1/20 times.
    I agree with you in principle, but not the examples you used. For example, what 'legendary' swordsmith have you met that would ever rush his work? (That is, why would he not at least take 10?) Nor can I imagine a commoner attempting such things just because the rules of the universe allow it 1/20 times. Still, I don't use crit/fumble for skills myself.
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  12. - Top - End - #1482
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winds View Post
    Nor can I imagine a commoner attempting such things just because the rules of the universe allow it 1/20 times.
    But...doing/attempting impossible things just to see if we can anyways is, like, almost half of what humanity has spent its entire history doing!

    (Most of the other half is killing each other.)

  13. - Top - End - #1483
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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    I prefer to play with the alternate system presented in ELH: If you get a natural 20, roll again and add 20. If you get a natural 1, roll again and subtract 20. Under this system, the commoner needs 4 natural 20s in a row, for only a 1/160000 chance.
    I don't think I like that. It may make accidental epic checks near impossible, but it also screws anybody who fumbles a skill check they would normally make on a natural 1.

    Player: Alright, I have 14 ranks in tumble. *Rolls die*
    GM: A natural 1! Under normal rules, that would be enough to make a standard tumble check, but under our new rules, I'll need you to roll again with a -20 modifier.
    Player: Uh... ok. *Rolls die again*
    GM: Ohhh a 19. Fantastic roll, but with your negative modifier, your total roll comes out to 13. As you try to tumble pass the orc, he trips you, making you fall flat on your face.

  14. - Top - End - #1484
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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
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  15. - Top - End - #1485
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lhurgyof View Post
    Or crit fumble tables on attacks. Just because most of them are rediculous.

    Ex.: "1? Roll again. 20? Roll again. 20? Insta-kill self. Sorry."

    Also, this means that the level 30 barbarian is going to fumble his weapon every few seconds.
    to be fair, dnd combat is absurdly fast moving. I used to take tae kwon do classes, and we had a junior national champ in our class (she almost knocked me out once). even she would take 8, 10 seconds sometimes to breathe and reconsider. 4 swings every 6 seconds is a nonstop flurry of movement, there really wouldn't be much time for control and you very well could hit yourself at that rate.
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  16. - Top - End - #1486
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyfeld View Post
    GM: A natural 1! Under normal rules, that would be enough to make a standard tumble check
    Really? I was under the impression that, under normal rules, a natural 1 is an automatic fail no matter what bonus you have to a skill or whatever.
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  17. - Top - End - #1487
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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objection View Post
    Really? I was under the impression that, under normal rules, a natural 1 is an automatic fail no matter what bonus you have to a skill or whatever.
    Link.
    To make a skill check, roll 1d20 and add your character’s skill modifier for that skill. The skill modifier incorporates the character’s ranks in that skill and the ability modifier for that skill’s key ability, plus any other miscellaneous modifiers that may apply, including racial bonuses and armor check penalties. The higher the result, the better. Unlike with attack rolls and saving throws, a natural roll of 20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 is not an automatic failure.
    Also,
    Quote Originally Posted by Qwertystop View Post
    Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2011-08-23 at 05:43 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #1488
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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Objection View Post
    Really? I was under the impression that, under normal rules, a natural 1 is an automatic fail no matter what bonus you have to a skill or whatever.
    It is for attacks and saves, it isn't for skills.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

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  19. - Top - End - #1489
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    That's only on attack rolls and saves. Skill checks are not subject to nat 20s or nat 1s. All rolls on skills are merely variables added to your modifier. If this total beats the dc you succeed. Period.

    Yay double sword saged.
    Last edited by ryu; 2011-08-23 at 05:45 PM.
    Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
    Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
    Thread wins: 2

  20. - Top - End - #1490
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Habits that kill fun in a session.

    Great Modthulhu: New thread linked above.

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