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  1. - Top - End - #751
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Last time I heard, Facebook has apologized and said that it won't happen again.
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  2. - Top - End - #752
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
    Last time I heard, Facebook has apologized and said that it won't happen again.
    Yeah, but still... I mean... they just said it was "removed in error." It's like when Amazon went after gay content. They apologized for it and called it a glitch, but... Seriously? You expect me to buy that argument, you have to be a lot more subtle about your double standards.

    I feel the same way about this. Now, if they apologized and said they were looking into why it had been removed and would take steps on the matter. But it sounds like they're claiming it as simply an accident.
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
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  3. - Top - End - #753
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Well, to be fair, accidents do occur. We can't really go pointing fingers when we don't know the whole story.

    ...Nah, just kiddin'. Go ahead and point fingers.

    (Actually, I'm conflicted, because we don't know what really happened, but it does seem awfully suspicious.)

  4. - Top - End - #754
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    I blame facebook for everything. Tornados, floods, malaria, droughts, plagues of locusts, and occassionally stuff that actually involves the internet.

    I do the same with all new-fangled technology stuff.

    It's a shame I can't find my good torch and pitchfork.

    On the, more serious, upside - it is good to know that people keep an eye on these things and get suspicious when something starts to look like discrimination.
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  5. - Top - End - #755
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Quote Originally Posted by rayne_dragon View Post
    I blame facebook for everything. Tornados, floods, malaria, droughts, plagues of locusts, and occassionally stuff that actually involves the internet.
    I blame humans for all that. All humans are culpable.

    On which note still questioning. I like when the world is neatly classifiable even when it's not necessarily pleasant. And so the idea that I can't resolve something about myself through introspection and/or experimentation is just maddening. I hate this body. I hate this tiny, cramped brain. Uuurgh!
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

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  6. - Top - End - #756
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Every second, more than 11000 link/statuses/photo/etc. are shared on facebook. The idea of a hypothetical group of employees that check this amount of content looking for things to censor is ludicrous.
    Facebook's content control is most assuredly automatic: for example, it could be such as that if the number of people that reported that content as inappropriate is more than twice the number of people that liked it, the content is deleted.
    From this point of view, this incident leaves me equally outraged, though not towards facebook, but towards humanity in general.
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  7. - Top - End - #757
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Hmm, it could be a mix of both automatic and manual. Say, it flags a picture if dislikes > (likes * 2), but an admin or some such actually has to come along and check it to make sure it's delete-worthy. But yeah, then you're still giving that power to the general populace(on the internet no less); don't expect to walk away with your love(or in my case, ever-so-slightly less disappointment) for humanity intact.

    But yeah, we probably shouldn't make judgements untill we know the full story. >_>
    Last edited by Miscast_Mage; 2011-04-24 at 07:40 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #758
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Quote Originally Posted by dpcris85 View Post
    Every second, more than 11000 link/statuses/photo/etc. are shared on facebook. The idea of a hypothetical group of employees that check this amount of content looking for things to censor is ludicrous.
    Facebook's content control is most assuredly automatic: for example, it could be such as that if the number of people that reported that content as inappropriate is more than twice the number of people that liked it, the content is deleted.
    From this point of view, this incident leaves me equally outraged, though not towards facebook, but towards humanity in general.
    Flagging is not manually done by the employees. Removal post flagging is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

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  9. - Top - End - #759
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    And even a basically decent organization can have the random douchebag in it. Or just the guy who's afraid he'll lose his job unless he's strict.
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    Oooh, and that's a bad miss.

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  10. - Top - End - #760
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    Flagging is not manually done by the employees. Removal post flagging is.
    Are you sure? If my calculations are correct, even if only 1 post out of 1000 is flagged, and even if the employees dedicated to post removal work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week and take 10 seconds to evaluate the removal of each post, they still need to employ about 230 people. And if this was the case, with this inhuman work rates the current occurrence of mistakes in post removal would be extraordinarily low.

    Anyway, I think calculations and hypothesis will not bring us closer to the truth (which is totally OOC for me ). I hope this accident will lead to facebook disclosing its algorithm for post flagging and/or removal.
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  11. - Top - End - #761
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    [skims through facebook outrage responses]

    I've not really committed myself to an opinion on it so far, not sure if I'll bother. Facebook and I aren't close pals anyhow as I joined it essentially as an act of kow-towing to rather relentless peer pressure (one friend of mine actually threatened to set up an account for me if I didn't do it myself). as far as how thorough the people in charge of the site are... I dunno. My sister set up an account for our Jack Russell which has been undisturbed for over a year now I think. She did lie about her age though. (for the record, I didn't endorse putting the dog on facebook, it just kind of happened, my sister's like that).

    Re: the Glee discussion from a while back, such as it was....
    I'm a casual viewer of the show. I think I've actually seen pretty much all the episodes that have aired in the UK so far but a lot of the tv I watch is as something to have on in the background while I do other things like knitting and drawing. My opinions on the show are mixed. It has a lot of problems, a few of them I can't really discuss here as that would be straying into no go areas for this forum.
    I have to agree with Serpentine to an extent on Kurt though, he's often portrayed as rather ungrateful, put upon and worst of all elitist. I think it was the episode before last week's where the guy from A Very Potter Muscial decided he might actually be bi and Kurt launched into a tirade of pretty ugly biphobia? It was almost made worse by the fact that in this instance his argument was essentially proven correct. At least the bi-curious guy called him out on it I guess.
    Like many viewers I keep watching mostly for Sue Sylvester/ Jane Lynch. Whilst pretty much all of the characters are pretty hit and miss I think Sue probably provides the most consistent entertainment value + character vulnerability out of the cast. Kurt's dad's very well written though. I think the best episode I've seen was probably the wedding themed one where Sue married herself. That was quite a nice little arc, I thought, as it fitted perfectly with the character but at the same time made a positive statement about those who are perfectly happy living their lives "alone". Maybe a bit of a nod to asexuality? (Emma Redheadedness could be argued to be asexual too I s'pose although the way her character's presented really doesn't make things look good for asexuals.) That was also the episode where Kurt left McKinnely and Sue stood down as Head Teacher in protest over the school board not acting to protect him, I think. Which was nice and in my opinion pretty fitting as she's very much an equal opportunities bully.

    Serpentine makes a fair point about Kurt being very flamboyant though. He called Sue out on giving him a girly nickname but I assumed she was mainly going for that "slur" because she actually assumed K was trans. The fact that he joined the all female cheerleading squad, crossdresses on stage occaisionally and most convincingly has twice attempted to insist he was put on the girls team in girls v. boys singing competitions could kind of lead her to that conclusion. But he'd know I guess!

    Finally something that used to bother me about their main gay character was how he always bemoaned the fact that he was the only "out" gay in the whole school. In this day and age that seemed ridiculous to me, but when I actually thought about it I realised I didn't encounter any gays who were out of the closet when I was in school (or at least not knowingly) I always put this down to the fact that I didn't know very many people anyway but I suppose the fact that our school didn't have a GSA or any similar club/society probably didn't help people feel secure in telling people. I can't actually recall the subject ever coming up, oddly enough.
    Maybe it was mentioned in some of the PSE (personal and social education) classes that I missed for my counselling sessions.

    [looks up]
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  12. - Top - End - #762
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    And quite successful at extinguishing my desire to watch Glee too.
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  13. - Top - End - #763
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    And quite successful at extinguishing my desire to watch Glee too.
    Ahahhaha. I have a habit of putting folk off of things....
    At least I wasn't making an effort to encourage people to tune in.
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  14. - Top - End - #764
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Quote Originally Posted by dpcris85 View Post
    Are you sure? If my calculations are correct, even if only 1 post out of 1000 is flagged, and even if the employees dedicated to post removal work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week and take 10 seconds to evaluate the removal of each post, they still need to employ about 230 people. And if this was the case, with this inhuman work rates the current occurrence of mistakes in post removal would be extraordinarily low.

    Anyway, I think calculations and hypothesis will not bring us closer to the truth (which is totally OOC for me ). I hope this accident will lead to facebook disclosing its algorithm for post flagging and/or removal.
    Pretty sure. And facebook has more than 2000 employees, giving room for such a moderator staff. And flag rates are probably much lower than that (I believe though I could be wrong that the most common method is the manual "flag" button that viewers of content can press).

    I'm less offended by keeping the algorithms a "trade secret" than... Eh. I'm just mad when such things get swept under the rug. Someone's at fault, whether it's because of the policy that wrote an algorithm or because someone went on a personal crusade against policy. And I don't mind that so much. Policies can be changed, people can grow, and honestly the next time I expect good things from humanity at large will be the first in a long time. But apologizing for a mistake isn't enough, the party at fault has to show willing to take corrective actions for the future.

    In this case, as I understand it, they should have a long talk with moderating staff. Just saying that would not only remove but reverse all the ire I feel on the subject. But they didn't say that, so I'm annoyed. Because they're either not trying to improve, or they're trying to keep it under wraps. Either way, it's a pet peeve of mine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

    Credit to Astrella for the new party avatar.

  15. - Top - End - #765
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Golentan just spent 5 minutes laughing out loud in a way he hasn't since he was 13. Enough laughter that he broke into a coughing fit, in fact. The reasons are not board safe, but the gist is that he is even more confused and questioning about his sexuality than before if that is possible.

    And finds it hilarious.

    Edit: Oh, crud. I had forgotten I was the last post as well. Apologies all.
    Last edited by golentan; 2011-04-24 at 11:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

    Credit to Astrella for the new party avatar.

  16. - Top - End - #766
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    We talked a bit earlier about how some people thought bisexuality didn't exist, and that might be caused by the fact a lot of people might claim to be bisexual when they actually aren't, leaving the ones who actually are to deal with the backlash.

    I came upon this article about OK Cupid (not representative of humanity as a whole I would say, only to people who use OK Cupid) about common lies people put on their profiles.

    Halfway down the page is bisexuality, with a graph. They took all the people who said they were bisexual on their profiles, and looked at the messages they sent.
    The results are interesting. 41% sent messages to males only, 36% to females only, and only 23% (less than a quarter!) sent at least one message to each.

    Here is a quote from the article:

    Please note, everybody, that we don’t assume that bis should be “into both genders equally.” We only assume that they should be into both genders at all. The swaths of red and blue that you see in these sexuality charts represent people who message only one gender. The purple areas are people who send any messages, in whatever proportion, to both men and women.
    While there might be a margin of error due to people who sent only one message overall, or something, I assume they would have accounted for that.
    So what do you think? Why would people pretend to be bi when they're not, or, if they're actually bi, what causes them to look for partners of only one gender?

    At first I thought "maybe they find it easier to find opposite-sex partners in real life and only use the website for same-sex partners. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

    Under that figure they have one where they break it by gender.

    For males, the people who send message to both gender are pretty much constant by age (a bit under a quarter, reduces slightly with age). Over 50% of younger men send messages to males only (and less than a quarter to females only).
    As they get older, less send messages to males only and more to females only. On the opposite end of the graph, at age 55, something like 60% send messages to females only.

    Now, I guess I could get the young ones either have a harder time finding males face-to-face than they do females, or not being quite out as gay and feeling more comfortable identifying as bi. But I don't get while these 60% of older men would say they're bi on their profile and only write to females.

    For females, the figures are more constant. Females who write to both genders look about 30% of females at age 18 and 20% of females at age 55. Around 30-35% of women write to males only at all ages. The rest write to females only (so it actually raises with age).

    What do you guys think about these figures? People lying on their profiles, or something completely different? I found the figure pretty interesting, I mean, I wouldn't expect all people who identify as bi on that website to have written to both genders I guess, but only 23% of them? Isn't that low?

    I have no clue if anyone else has any interest in that kind of stuff, but I like data and polls and stuff like this and since this one interested me I felt like sharing it here.

  17. - Top - End - #767
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    ^: In regards to older people... There's more women than men that live all that long so the higher competition and difficulty in finding or even thinking there's a chance of finding a male mate is a lot lower than the female pool, so it's basically just easier and a surer bet to go after women?

    Plus, while bi women could be compatible with most old guys, there's going to be a larger proportion of old men who are very biased against any non-heteronormative behavior than aren't, so just looking for other women who are interested in women is easier than looking for men who are interested in women but aren't biased against bisexuals or gays or lesbians and who aren't high in demand and thus basically unwinnable due to queuing effects.

    ...

    Only examples I can think of are three lesbians who'd have sex with men after identifying as such.

    edit: Oh, wait, no, I just remembered something. I had a girl who lied and told me she had figured out she was bi actually after I started hanging out with her about 3-4 years after she had initially shot me down as soon as we started hitting it off when we first met by telling me she was a lesbian.
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    Not sure what her reason for lying was or if it was just that she was legitimately confused and waffling. Pretty sure she only started dating me because she felt she should after I took her out on a couple of dates to get her out of the house and cheer her up because she was feeling down. And she needed a prom date for her senior prom.

    But even she is kinda screwy because she didn't actually out herself again to me until after she broke up with me despite her insistence and that of my best friend that she had told me before we broke up and she started really flirting heavily with my best friend. Who is a guy. And then they both vacillated for like, 2 months after that and I finally told them both to stop talking to me about one another and just date already, I wasn't going to get out of sorts about it because I just didn't care, especially after what they'd subjected me to. Which apparently was enough to add me to her undying ledger of hatred.

    So as far as I knew, it was 2 months after they started dating that she came out of the closet, but apparently she was out as a lesbian for about two months before she started dating my friend and claimed to be while she was dating me retroactively but never to, y'know, me... Before eventually breaking it off with him after going off to college in another town and being away from her mother (another potential source of pressure to lie and identify as bi or to date men while living with her) and getting involved with her college's GSA and probably meeting a nice lesbian girl to hit it off with.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2011-04-25 at 01:06 AM.
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  18. - Top - End - #768
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Lissou View Post
    While there might be a margin of error due to people who sent only one message overall, or something, I assume they would have accounted for that.
    You're assuming intellectual honesty from someone who interprets the messaging behavior of people on one single dating website as an exact reflection of their sexual orientation. And then extends his conclusions from a group that is blatantly nonrepresentative on the matter to the general population. And allows himself to be extremely judgemental all the way through. Just saying.

    As usual with this kind of popular studies, we learn two different things from the data and from the interpretation of the data. The former gives us valuable information about people in a very specific context, while the latter reflects the author's pet prejudices.
    Last edited by Murdim; 2011-04-25 at 06:14 AM.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    The transgender victim of a brutal beat-down at a Maryland McDonald's broke her silence to call the attack a "hate crime," and says it's not the first time she's been assaulted.

    Chrissy Lee Polis told the Baltimore Sun on Saturday the incident, which was captured on video and posted online, has left her "afraid to go outside."

    "I want to cry, but I need to hold my head up," she said, adding that she's been beaten and sexually assaulted in the past because of her sexual identity.

    The 22-year-old said she entered the McDonald's in Rosedale, a suburb of Baltimore, to use the bathroom on April 18. When she came out, she claims one of the women who attacked her accused her of trying to talk to "her man."

    "The other girl came up and spit in my face," Polis said in a video interview posted on the Baltimore Sun website. "They started ripping my hair, throwing me on the floor, kicking me in my face."

    The online video captures the brutal assault. It also shows a McDonald's employee coming to Polis' aid, but the women eventually set upon their victim again.

    One of the women can be seen dragging Polis across the restaurant to the front door while the other kicks her several times, the video shows. An elderly woman also tries to intervene, but is shoved away by one of the women.

    Video of the brutal attack in Maryland was posted online.

    Polis suffered a seizure as a result of the attack, according to a police report. She also had several cuts and bruises.

    A man continues to capture the assault on video, never once attempting to help, but instead can be heard laughing several times during the footage. Other McDonald's employees are seen in the video standing nearby as the fight ensues.

    "I knew they were taping me; I told the guy to stop," Polis said. "They all just sat there and watched."

    The man who captured the video was 22-year-old McDonald's employee, Vernon Hackett, the Baltimore Sun reported. He was since been fired.

    "My first and foremost concern is with the victim," Mitchell McPherson, owner of the Rosedale McDonald's, said in a statement.

    "I'm as shocked and disturbed by the assault as anyone would be," he said. "The behavior displayed in the video is unfathomable and reprehensible."

    McDonald's released a statement on Saturday calling the attack "unacceptable, disturbing and troubling."

    Other employees may also be fired in the wake of the assault.

    Police have arrested two unidentified teenagers - one 14 the other 18 - for the assault. Baltimore authorities have yet to determine if they will consider the attack a hate crime.
    I'll go take a kitty break now.

    Last edited by Asta Kask; 2011-04-25 at 06:56 AM.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    I think it shows how I feel about Humanity that I'm less shocked and horrified that it happened, and more heartened by the fact that the guy filming it was fired and the owner is claiming to care.*

    *Not saying he doesn't care, but it is possible that he's trying to be PC and doesn''t actually.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    I think it shows how I feel about Humanity that I'm less shocked and horrified that it happened, and more heartened by the fact that the guy filming it was fired and the owner is claiming to care.*

    *Not saying he doesn't care, but it is possible that he's trying to be PC and doesn''t actually.
    Yeah. It is a grotesque incident but I'll admit I was somewhat heartened to read that one of the employees came to try to help her and that the elderly lady tried to intervene too. Hope she was alright after they pushed her. Presumably if she'd been injured significantly that would have been mentioned too. I wonder if the employee who tried to help or the older woman called the police? I didn't see how the incident came to a close apart from the guy with the camera getting sacked (quite rightly).
    I am relieved that that employee filming was fired and that they seem to be looking into disciplining others who just stood by (stepping into a violent incident isn't always the best answer, but they should at least have ensured that the authorities were called and made cautious but firm attempts to ask the assailants to leave, in fairness to them I doubt their training would have covered this sort of thing and they could have been frightened or whatever) but I'd have assumed that really, regardless of the orientation of the victim, when somebody is badly beaten in your restaurant like that and it's so obvious that an employee of yours either instigated the violence or at the very least encouraged it, the owner would be considered negligent if they refused to act on the matter, PC stops coming into it at this stage I reckon even for many biggots.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    I think it shows how I feel about Humanity that I'm less shocked and horrified that it happened, and more heartened by the fact that the guy filming it was fired and the owner is claiming to care.*
    Well, people doing horrible things is an everyday occurence. A beating is by itself a wholly unremarkable event. What makes an assault story news-worthy isn't the assault itself, but all the little things around it : the victim's identity, the bystander's reactions, and random people/organisations making great declarations about how those kind of things should never happen again.

    This kind of stories stopped shocking me a long time ago, but I still feel as horrified and furious as always.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Although I'm not sure this started as a hate crime. Seems the assailants were just out to cause trouble, and then discovered that the person was transsexual. At which point they just went to town with this poor woman. Not that it really matters, but anyone else get that vibe?

    I hope the people in custody are the perpetrators both because a) I want them caught, and b) I wouldn't want to be blamed for this kind of crime if I was innocent.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    I think it shows how I feel about Humanity that I'm less shocked and horrified that it happened, and more heartened by the fact that the guy filming it was fired and the owner is claiming to care.*

    *Not saying he doesn't care, but it is possible that he's trying to be PC and doesn''t actually.
    It'd be suicide if he didn't. This kind of thing getting out about one's ability to run a business is really, really bad.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    There's a petition on Change.org calling for them to take more action, if folks are interested. Here 'tis.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    The big Irish transgender story at the moment. Her employers dealt with her transition really, really badly. In a kind of total ignorance, misguided way, rather than a prejudiced or malicious way, so I found it more than . I think she's brave to talk about it, it's that kind of openness that will help others in her situation. I don't believe there's much hate against trans people in Ireland, but they're not visible, so there's an awful lot of ignorance.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleanor_Rigby View Post
    Yeah. It is a grotesque incident but I'll admit I was somewhat heartened to read that one of the employees came to try to help her and that the elderly lady tried to intervene too. Hope she was alright after they pushed her. Presumably if she'd been injured significantly that would have been mentioned too. I wonder if the employee who tried to help or the older woman called the police? I didn't see how the incident came to a close apart from the guy with the camera getting sacked (quite rightly).
    I am relieved that that employee filming was fired and that they seem to be looking into disciplining others who just stood by (stepping into a violent incident isn't always the best answer, but they should at least have ensured that the authorities were called and made cautious but firm attempts to ask the assailants to leave, in fairness to them I doubt their training would have covered this sort of thing and they could have been frightened or whatever) but I'd have assumed that really, regardless of the orientation of the victim, when somebody is badly beaten in your restaurant like that and it's so obvious that an employee of yours either instigated the violence or at the very least encouraged it, the owner would be considered negligent if they refused to act on the matter, PC stops coming into it at this stage I reckon even for many biggots.
    The employee that helped I think is also the same one who casually stepped over the victim as she was having a seizure at the end. Did you have the sound on while watching it? The other employee's were laughing at the incident and at the end urging the two girls to leave before the police got there. All should be fired or even charged as accessories to the assault, in my very humble opinion.

    edit: I see the video wasn't posted. I saw the video Friday, and read the story this weekend. I am sure if you google it you can find it.
    Last edited by Mkhaiwati; 2011-04-25 at 06:31 PM.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    Quote Originally Posted by Mkhaiwati View Post
    The employee that helped I think is also the same one who casually stepped over the victim as she was having a seizure at the end. Did you have the sound on while watching it? The other employee's were laughing at the incident and at the end urging the two girls to leave before the police got there. All should be fired or even charged as accessories to the assault, in my very humble opinion.

    edit: I see the video wasn't posted. I saw the video Friday, and read the story this weekend. I am sure if you google it you can find it.
    Oh gosh...


    I didn't know that part, no. It didn't occur to me to watch the video partly because it wasn't part of the post but mostly because it wasn't something I wanted to see. I don't think I'll google the video since I'm so detatched from the people involved, but I will take a look at the petition linked and consider. If employees were egging the assault and battery on and trying to help the attackers evade punishment, then yeah they probably ought to go to court for that/ lose their jobs/ combination of these.
    Stepping over somebody having a seizure really isn't on either unless that's your only way to safety and to a phone for help, but at the very least said employee presumably didn't participate in the assault and made a small attempt to assert disapproval. Presumably how casual it was is down to interpretation to an extent. I can't say for sure how honourable my behaviour would have been in the same situation but I'm pretty sure I would have wanted to get out of there as soon as possible so I could see stepping over her as being maybe not as cold blooded as it looked, although I don't know enough about the situation to even know if the employee stepped over the victim to leave the building or for another purpose so...

    I can't really make firm arguments about any specifics here though because I've not read all the information, wasn't there, won't watch the video, etc. Hopefully good will come of the video as evidence in court but I don't really feel right somehow watching it myself. If I were on the jury (assuming a jury ever gets involved with this incident) the situation would be different, obviously.

    It's a bad business. Probably one made worse by the fact that it's not particularly extraordinary.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    So I just finished watching a Stonewall Riots Documentary that was on PBS with my dad. It was actually really cool, especially so since he was a kid when they happened, and lived in New York (although not the city itself), when it happened. And it was really cool.

    Also; the thing with the transgendered woman being beaten up was seriously disgusting. I couldn't get past the first minute or so without closing the video. Like, really, what the **** is wrong with everyone involved with that **** (pardon my French). So much idiocy.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

    This may sound odd, but this is the sort of thing where I wish I could have been there. I wish I could have interfered. To stop the assailants, or make sure the woman was okay, or something.

    ...bah. I'll take my hero complex somewhere else. I'm glad they've got their suspects, and I hope that the guilty parties get nailed to the wall. Not because it's an LGBT issue, or because it's a hate crime, but because I hold a special place in my heart for anyone who can hurt another person unprovoked. A special place on fire.

    This sort of thing makes me wax a little philosophical. Does that sort of hate come from intolerance, or is intolerance an excuse for hateful people to exercise their natures on what they view as "acceptable targets?" It may seem like an odd question, but it seems to me like I've met people who are xenophobic or homophobic or whatever the issue du jour is and would never do such things to another person, or stand idly by while others do. I think lack of understanding might contribute to a climate where being hateful is okay, but I just can't bring myself to believe that it's the root cause when things turn this horrible. I guess in spite of all my loudly trumpeting misanthropy and cynicism I don't want to believe that many people have such a thin veneer over that kind of monster.
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