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Thread: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
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2011-04-28, 06:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
Hey guys, this is a bit off-topic in the current discussion, but I'd love some feedback on this article I wrote for a nearby campus's gay group (I was pretty limited on space, so didn't fully address all I wanted to).
SpoilerA Perspective on Choice
by ME
In the movie version of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, a gun existed that could make a person experience any event from the perspective of any other. For Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgendered (LGBT) individuals, such a device would be the ideal tool for preventing discrimination. It could surely be used to teach a lesson to those who commit bigotry, and also in helping others understand the community's perspective. Think for a moment how many times you have heard comments like, "I wish they (LGBT people) wouldn't shove it in our faces," or, "You'll end up in hell," or my personal favorite, "It's a choice and people have turned straight." Individuals making these comments have never invested the energy to empathize with others; if they had, they may have realized that it is a natural, instinctual attraction rather than a choice
Unfortunately, no such technology actually exists. Thanks to the technology we do have, however, we have been able to pinpoint some of the actual origins of homosexuality.
Note: the vast majority of studies have been performed on homosexual men, though research recently has increased regarding other members of the LGBT community.
Homosexuality appears in nature in dozens of animals, from bed bugs to elephants to ducks. Recent studies even show previously-heterosexual mice engaging in homosexual and bisexual behaviors by restricting a certain chemical in the brain. Though we are neither bed bugs nor mice, such studies suggest biochemical significance in determining sexuality.
Because it would be unethical to perform such experiments on humans at this point, scientists are forced to take a more roundabout method in showing sexuality’s biological bases in humans. The common technique is the twin study, comparing identical twins’ outcomes due to their identical genetic material. When looking at identical twins reared both together and apart, there is a much higher rate of homosexuality between them when compared to two non-twin biological siblings. There are also several genetic studies that show individual chromosome markers common between gay males as well as certain genetic patterns in mothers of gay sons. These suggest that genetics play a large role, but that other factors may influence sexuality.
There are also several biological correlations between homosexual individuals. Each older brother a boy has increases the chances that he will be homosexual, possibly due to changes in the mother's immune system in the womb and how those affect fetal development. Also, gay men are much more likely than to be left-handed, have equal-sized brain hemispheres (straight mens' brains tend to be larger on the right), have increased fingerprint ridge density on fingerprints, and respond differently to pheromones. There are no less than a dozen biological and cognitive ways gay men and lesbians differ from their heterosexual counterparts.
What is important about these factors is that many can be observed before the individual is born, which strongly indicates that sexuality is determined before birth. No individual factor has yet been pinpointed because there is no single cause or gene, but rather because sexuality exists as a complex interaction of genetic, biological, and hormonal factors.
LGBT individuals do have a choice, however: the choice to acknowledge and accept yourself for who you are or to deny, hide, or repress that integral part of yourself. People may pressure you one way or another with their own agendas, but the freedom to make this choice cannot be taken away, cannot be used, cannot be taken or appropriated by anyone else. It is yours to make.
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2011-04-28, 07:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
I'd turn down the scientific listing just a wee bit and talk more about people instead. The point you want to make (I assume) is that it's scientifically proven that homosexuality is biological and not a choice, I think you can make that clear with just a little bit less enumerating stuff so you have more space for the message.
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2011-04-28, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
Good article, well done! I think it covers a lot of ground concisely and clearly, and your point is well made.
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2011-04-28, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
If you used the POV gun on someone who was complaining about having other people's lives' information shoved into theirs when they don't want to know or particularly care would only really add fuel to that particular fire, since being POV'd is a deeply unpleasant experience.
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2011-04-28, 02:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
On another note, I have been wondering if I am Lesbian or Bisexual. I sometimes find idea of being with a man appealing, but have only once met a man I was attracted to. And he was taken
"Best na ta challenge that Delusion" - Durkon in #674
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2011-04-28, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
I kind of want to have people point the POV gun at me, I want to understand their point and my social skills are abysmal.
Except giant pandas, those will forever remain mysteries to me.
I'd call that Bisexual, or Bisexual Gynoromantic to be convoluted.
But it's really something one decide for oneself, what denominator you feel fits you the best if any fit at all.
It's not everybody who fit neatly into categories, so don't feel bad if you can't find a fitting one.Treasured Quotes
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2011-04-28, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
Well done on the article sparkyinbozo. Miscast_Mage approved. :3
Here's my advice; ditch the les/bi labels. If they don't fit well enough that you don't know which to use, then don't use them. You don't fit neatly into some arbitrary catagorisation; take pride in that. Some sexualities just plain don't. It's like rounding fractions; yeah, you've got a nice whole number instead of decimals, but losing those decimals is losing a bit of your sexual identity. You're you, first and foremost. Labels come afterwards, if at all.
Also, you might want to look at the Kinsey scale. It might be more accurate than an A or B type answer. You sound like you're somewhere between four and five or there abouts. Hope that helps.
Aaaand one more thing: Huggles for everyone 'cause I missed giving them earlier. ◕‿‿◕ Incidently, those huggles happen to be bear-hugs, so anyone who failed their reflex save take 3d6 bludgeoning damage and roll a fort save. >:3
Edit: Forgot to link. >_< Here's some info on it.Last edited by Miscast_Mage; 2011-04-28 at 04:13 PM.
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2011-04-28, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
Yay for cookies! As for the less fun stuff: there isn't another clinic that can get the blood work done sooner? I know when I need lab work done here I usually have an option of about 20 different clinics to go to and they all take the blood the same day (and get th results back to the Dr. within a week). As for self-medicating, the problem with that is most of the do it yourself stuff doesn't work well or is dangerous. I've heard that peppermint tea or grapefruit juice can help, but I wouldn't expect too much from them; although they are rather safe things to ingest.
As for your second problem, at least b) and c) would (from what I know) seem to make a) more likely. I'm afraid all I can offer is a sympathy hug, seeing as I'm rather far away - well, and a sympathetic ear as well.
I probably wouldn't be the same person if I didn't have to deal with this crap. I guess that what I'm doing now is figuring out if I'm the same person as a man or a woman... although really, I can't be either.
Well, if it's impossible, I'll just have to live with it, won't I?
Xyr was rather a preference for me based on the uncommonness of X (and to a lesser extent Y) - how could I resist? I'm also a fan of 've' and 'ze' for similar reasons. And if it helps me win a few games of scrabble...
EDIT:
Thank goodness for improved evasion!
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2011-04-28, 10:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-04-29, 12:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
...As for self-medicating, the problem with that is most of the do it yourself stuff doesn't work well or is dangerous. I've heard that peppermint tea or grapefruit juice can help, but I wouldn't expect too much from them; although they are rather safe things to ingest.
The other methods involves buying medical-grade human estrogens from various online stores. The risks here range from being sold sugar pills, traditional credit card fraud, and not having hormone levels monitored.
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2011-04-29, 12:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
Sugar... talcum powder... glass... worse. Hope this video works outside of Australia. Approximately 50% of the online market for medications is fake.
"My Hobby: Replacing your soap with gravy" by rtg0922, Doll and Clint "Rawhide" Eastwood by Sneak
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2011-04-29, 12:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
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2011-04-29, 12:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
I seem to recall my doctor mentioning that medical estrogens are actually derived from soy or something. I guess the estrogens must be chemically refined to be closer to human estrogen, since as I understand it the amount of phytoestrogens you would have to take ingest would mean eating soy until you've exploded.
The interesting thing about grapefruit is it works by inhibiting the break down of estrogen, thus increasing the levels of estrogen present in your body through accumulation. I still think the results are likely going to be less than spectacular unless some kind of anti-androgen is also involved.
I'm surprised that it's only 50% that's fake. Rx medications are that way for a reason - they usually have at least one side effect that is potentially fatal. I wouldn't trust anyone who doesn't expect a prescription for meds like that.
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2011-04-29, 12:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
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2011-04-29, 05:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-04-29, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
So after some introspection, I've come to a realisation about myself. I don't wish I had been born a girl. Being female is not what I want, in and of itself.
What I want is not to be male. I dislike being a guy. Ho hum.Quotebox
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2011-04-29, 06:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
So... do you mean you're agender/neutrois, or do you mean that you prefer female (if you were born female you wouldn't feel as bad) but only because you like male even less?
I personally don't feel like a male inside, but when I think of having been born a male I don't think I would care at all... So it seems like I'm the opposite of you, you don't like either, I just couldn't care less... but on the other hand I guess we're similar in not really identifying with either one?
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2011-04-29, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
There, it took two days of my free time, but I've finally managed to read the entire thread up to this point, and now that I've come all this way... I realize I've put exceptionally little thought into this post.
To make my story short as possible: I'm a college student whose been 'out' for almost exactly four years now. In that time, my experience with relationships amounts to one guy who strung me along for about four weeks in a pseudo-pre-relationship thing before I found out (through his facebook relationship status) that he found someone else he was more interested in. Yet, in the same span, I've had two girls ask me out, another express serious interest, and dozens more act generally flirty.
Because of this, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not generally repulsive, but it seems like I don't even register on the radar of the sex/gender that I'm actually interested in. In fact, when I first came out to people back in high school, it took me about twenty minutes of talking to convince them that I wasn't joking, and since then I've had multiple people tell me "You know, if you hadn't said it, I'd never have taken you for a gay guy." So tell me LGBTQAIXYZA(again)itP, what am I doing wrong? It feels like there's intense pressure to conform to stereotypes just so I can be recognized, but at the same time that's really not who I am.
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2011-04-29, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
I'm not at either end of the gender scale, I'd worked that out already. On the other hand, were I to wake up tomorrow morning as a woman, I don't think I'd mind at all, barring the initial what-the-crap-ness. I enjoy the fact that if I try, I can look really quite feminine, but I've never felt like I'm a woman trapped in a man's body.
The idea of androgyny appeals somewhat. I think your second idea is closer - in some ways I'd prefer to be female, but as a way to be less male rather than a goal in and of itself. I think.
None of this is stuff I'm sure about. It's all just self-speculation.Quotebox
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2011-04-29, 07:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
I get that. I think when you're neither it's easier if you're female, because a female can get away with being masculine more easily than the other way around. So if you're female you can be in the middle, or even have some times being very feminine and some others being very masculine, and you'll be fine (I'm speaking mostly of appearance here. Like, a woman can wear a dress and make up one day, and jeans and a T-shirt the next. Much harder for a guy).
On the other hand, sometimes I feel I'd be taken more seriously as a male, and there are many things I dislike about a female body, and I think it might be easier to be a male who shaves his body hair than a female who doesn't...
So yeah, both have pros and cons I guess. Either way, I'm comfortable with my body now, I feel like, I'm going to have one anyways, you know, so since I don't really fit anything, might as well take the one I have.
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2011-04-29, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
Echoes: I recommend flirting blatantly and with everyone who you find attractive, but without compromising your identity. If this itself compromises your identity... I don't know. Go to LGBT meetings (most colleges have them) or dating meetups or whatever.
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2011-04-29, 08:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
I kinda don't feel right asking this but... could you post a picture up in the You thread? I just want to see exactly what you are talking about.
Also; just be you. Seriously, I am attracted to a very different "type" than many gay guys are, that doesn't mean I am not looking. Literally, there are six billion people (more actually, that is just the most commonly quoted statistic) on this planet. I seriously doubt that there is no guy who is not attracted to you. You just have to keep looking, and don't try to change yourself. If it feels comfortable, or fun, then by all means. But if you are doing it just to get dates, it definitely isn't worth it.
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2011-04-29, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
I suppose... The official group at my school is skewed with something like a 20:1 girl to boy ratio, and outside that the only "dating events" I can think of are the parties thrown by the students at the other college across town, where drinking is so heavy that they usually get broken up within a few hours (which is really not an environment I'd like to be in).
Flirting with everybody is definitely not in-character for me, and consequently the limit of my skill at it amounts to a shy smile and awkwardly wringing my neck while I forget how to make sentences. When I'm not nervous I'm fine, but it makes it much more difficult for me to consider making "the first move" if I don't know whether or not the other guy feels the same way.
Uno: I think it has more to do with my mannerisms than appearance, but sure. I agree that it isn't worth changing myself just for dates, and normally I'm fine with being the only gay guy I've met here who hasn't had a (or a dozen) boyfriend(s), but sometimes it just feels a little rejection-y.
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2011-04-29, 08:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
You sound... exactly like me. Like, weirdly like me. This is weird.
Anyway; yeah, maybe it is mannerisms, or what have you. But the main thing is, your only real options here are "get out there" so to speak (I.E. act differently than you do now, conform to stereotypes, etc etc), or just wait. Yeah, there are probably other options, but those seem like the biggest ones.
It seems like the real thing you need to think about is whether or not you really need a boyfriend. For me, as fun/interesting/potentially awesome as it would be, I just don't think I have the time for it. That doesn't mean I won't later. Honestly, the best option (as far as I can see), is to be yourself, and look for opportunities. I know that talking to boys is like, HELLA awkward, but if you go to LGBT events (which I am sure there must be around your area), you are sure to meet someone. In my state, everyone goes to the LGBT events just to meet people. Like, literally, you would be surprised how many people are out there and interested.
Also; if you are talking about here, I haven't even had one boyfriend, so... there? *cries*
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2011-04-29, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
You're right, I'd much rather have a guy I want to build a relationship around than plug guys into a relationship which must be static in my life. While most of the guys at my school cannot count on their hands the number of relationships they've had, most can also count on one the number of months their longest one has lasted.
Honestly, I think the biggest disappointment is that I thought by now people would be a lot more... mature. It feels like most of the guys I have contact with at school boil down into one of two groups: Those who pass each other around for physical pleasure, and those who give off weird creeper vibes but want to be part of the other group (well, and those who are normal, but already taken ).
It's just good to know I'm not alone in watching the clock tick away. And *hugs*, don't worry, we're in the same boat. That proto-pre-relationship I mentioned I don't even count; there wasn't ever so much as hands touching between us, and it only consisted of four or five weird encounters where I felt more like I was being sized up than enjoyed for my company. So, uuh, *mutual relationshiplessness high five*, yeah!
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2011-04-29, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
*Returns highfive*
It's totally fine, man. Passing people around for physical pleasure is fun to a certain point, one would assume, but after that it doesn't seem like it would be either practical, or emotionally stable. Or something like that.
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2011-04-29, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
I understand this completely. I've had a very similar experience, and I agree that you shouldn't conform yourself to stereotypes just to be recognized. The way I figure, your sexual prefrence shouldn't even be important at least 90% of the time. I mean, what are you hoping for if the majority of people do recognize you as gay? "Hey, that guy looks pretty good, I think I'll go ask him out?"
Personally, I've found it a lot easier to develop emotional connections with people first, and if you think there's something more to a relationship than that, you should pursue after that point. By that point, the person will already know your sexual preference, but have a good feel for you as a person as well.
I know a lot of people disagree with that, but it's what has worked for me when I was in a similar situation. I think it's best to find someone who's right, not someone who's only sexually compatible.
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2011-04-29, 09:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
Echoes & unasarta, it's really cool to see the positive attitudes you two are taking. It seems like something that's really rare these days.
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2011-04-29, 09:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
Just dropping in to say I'm watching Frank Skinner's Opinionated on BBCiplayer just now and Frank Skinner, Katy Brand and Alan Davies are discussing Elton John's new baby. I didn't realise they got Lady Gaga to be Godmother - that's actually kinda sweet...
(rude language, some questionable content (not the webcomic), covers subjects we can't discuss on the forum (p) and only legally available for people outside the UK, so I won't bother with a link. It's episode 6 though.)
Also, how bad is it that I find solace in all the other folk here who are baffled about their gender identitity and/or sexuality and folk who've never dated in their lives? I'm hoping it's just straightforward Schadenfreude... (I do wish I could offer hugs for those who'd accept them and be comforted by them though)
Personally I identify a lot with the discussion Lissou and Heliomance were having about gender identity. Part of the reason I don't use a female sign on my profile is because I'm quite a masculine girl - I'm not intersex and I don't think of myself as trans but the tag I'd probably use is genderqueer. In some ways I'm pretty masculine/anti-feminine but in others I enjoy being a girl and am glad I was born one... It's kinda complicated.
(the deciding factor in not using the fem symbol in these forums is I hate the colour of it.
Echoes: I feel for you with the terrible at flirting thing. It's in no way instinctive for me either, I think that's partly because I kind of trained myself to contain my emotions as a kid and was brought up in an "unusual" environment so I'm emotionally quite wonky. I've rarely felt sure I was attracted to a person that I'd actually met but with pretty much the only guy I was fairly sure I fancied I didn't know how to approach flirting/ assessing his interest/ finding out whether he was "taken" at all. It took me a while to decide I liked him and I usually only ever met him in passing one of the big issues with trying to figure things out was the fact that he presented quite like a stereotypical gay and I was never brave enough to ask (if he was gay then that would have nixed a relationship because I'm a gal). When I get mad at myself for chickening out of ever approaching him properly/ trying to get to know him properly I tend to console myself with the fact that he also seemed pretty pretentious and seemed more interested in my friend/ prettier girls from our French class anyhow. The fact that I'm super paranoid doesn't really help me judge these things.
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2011-04-29, 09:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen